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[marrec]

That video is pretty disgusting... the guy is threatening sure but...

 

[thepotatoman]

Because that's not a proper use of the use of force protocol. A taser could easily not attach both probes to the skin on a moving target. Ever shot a taser? It's not easy to line up the probes on a moving target. Deadly force is met with deadly force. I know most people don't agree, but 100 percent this shooting will be justified. No doubt about it.

If you're going to argue that, then cops should not carry tasers. The only use for tasers is to protect cops, but it also gets used in situations it clearly shouldn't. If it's too dangerous to be used in the one moment we want them to use it, then cops should not have tasers.

 

[block tower]

...yea.

So they murdered the crazy deadly donut stealing madman with about 10 shots. He wasn't even running at him. He was walking.

but he shoplifted two energy drinks. if you shoplift while black cops are in the right to kill you. and dont forget he had a knife, which clearly could've cut up the cops like sushi because the nigga was afro samurai in the flesh.

 

[Lime]

Because that's not a proper use of the use of force protocol. A taser could easily not attach both probes to the skin on a moving target. Ever shot a taser? It's not easy to line up the probes on a moving target. Deadly force is met with deadly force. I know most people don't agree, but 100 percent this shooting will be justified. No doubt about it.

Broaden your horizons. I've told you several times that other police forces are capable of tackling mentally unstable persons with knives. There are other solutions than killing the guy after only 15 seconds. Why can't you get that through your skull? You're shitting up the thread with your stubbornness and inability to take up what other people are saying.

And you're justifying the needless murder of an unhealthy person who clearly needed help. I can't tolerate such a form of thinking and justification.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

Deadly force is met with deadly force. I know most people don't agree, but 100 percent this shooting will be justified. No doubt about it.

I agree it will be found justified, but not because I think it is justified, that's just how 99% of all police shootings go. That he was within close range only made him a potential deadly threat, not a deadly threat. He had the knife held at his side, was only slowing walking, was on top of a ledge thus making it difficult to quickly attack, and made no indication he would attack the officer, instead intimating that he in fact wanted the officers to shoot him. I saw no action or behavior prior to the officers shooting that indicated he was about to change his movement to attack. It is not reasonable to use deadly force merely because he continued slowly moving. Had he lunged or said something like "time to die", it would be different. But there was no overt action constituting or furthering an intent to attack/kill.

I would very much like our police to be competently trained so they can deescalate and talk people down in these kinds of situations. Europe may have more stringent gun control, but they still handle people with knives without shooting everyone. If police think that's too hard to do, they should find another line of work.

 

[Kitschkraft]

This been posted? Happened yesterday.

http://fox4kc.com/2014/08/19/police...pointing-rifle-at-motorists-on-interstate-29/

The Platte County Sheriff’s Office says Elders was walking along the area of southbound I-29 about a mile north of the 273 Highway exit and allegedly pointing a rifle at passing traffic. A probable cause statement says officers arrived to the scene and found Elders with a shouldered rifle pointing it down the interstate. A deputy said Elders began a scanning motion and pointed the muzzle at a passing vehicle before he was subdued.

He was then taken to a hospital for evaluation and was later booked into the Platte County Jail. Officers said they recovered the rifle at the scene.

Missouri. White male. On highway. Pointing rifle at cars. Taken into custody.

I'm not mad that they were able to subdue him without incident, that's great, who knows what was wrong with this guy. But I for damn sure think that a black dude in a similar situation is getting taken out.

 

[marrec]

This been posted? Happened yesterday.

http://fox4kc.com/2014/08/19/police...pointing-rifle-at-motorists-on-interstate-29/



Missouri. White male. On highway. Pointing rifle at cars. Taken into custody.

I'm not mad that they were able to subdue him without incident, that's great, who knows what was wrong with this guy. But I for damn sure think that a black dude in a similar situation is getting taken out.

Black dude would have gotten shot 14 times.

 

[FOOTE]

The rain was insane earlier. Not surprised the crowd is smaller tonight.

 

[Timedog]

Uh, disarming an attacker with a knife is one of the first moves they drill into you in any self defence class, and all Police officers are trained in hand to hand self defence (not sure exactly what style, but it's pretty damn effective). The tasers police officers are armed with are effective from several feet and will stop almost anyone dead in their tracks. You're making excuses and sensationalizing.

I very much doubt that any cop is going to effectively disarm me if I'm trying to attack them with a knife because they took some shitty class. If someone with a knife goes against someone unarmed the unarmed person is probably going to get injured. A class doesn't make them superman.

That said, a taser would have almost assuredly worked fine in this situation.

 

[Jaeger]

How many instances of men or women brandishing knives during confrontations with police have been recorded in various countries? It may very well be that the US has many more of these instances, and even if most of them do not end in a dead suspect the ones that do get attention.

Just as an example, a quick search on google came up with these instances of people with knives threatening police and being arrested:

http://patch.com/new-york/plainview...s-police-threatens-mall-employee#.U_VRLGOmXEU

http://www.courierpostonline.com/st...threatens-female-victim-knife-point/13903751/

http://www.businessinsider.com/man-arrested-at-gma-threatening-to-kill-michael-strahan-2014-7

http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/man-threatens-officers-with-steak-knife-20140619

http://www.dailyfreeman.com/general...ngston-man-menaced-officers-female-with-knife

http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/201...-to-kill-himself-others-during-standoff.html/

http://www.kxxv.com/story/25320762/...r-assault-and-threatening-officers-with-knife

Again, this is pretty much from the first page of google results, and all but one or two seem to be from the past two months. Is it not possible that the vast majority of these situations end with no one dead, but the US has so many of them that there are inevitably some that end in someone dying? And perhaps these instances are much less prevalent in other places, meaning they have a much lower chance of involving a death?

This been posted? Happened yesterday.

http://fox4kc.com/2014/08/19/police...pointing-rifle-at-motorists-on-interstate-29/



Missouri. White male. On highway. Pointing rifle at cars. Taken into custody.

I'm not mad that they were able to subdue him without incident, that's great, who knows what was wrong with this guy. But I for damn sure think that a black dude in a similar situation is getting taken out.

Fucking hell, man. What the FUCK.

 

[More_Badass]

So is mainstream media really just ignoring the story of the Mya Aaten-White who was shot the first night?

Yeah they are and that's just damn depressing

 

[DemiMatt]

For those that aren't in the know.

Someone is saying the entire event is staged.

EDIT - Posting with sarcasm.

 

[Lime]

I very much doubt that any cop is going to effectively disarm me if I'm trying to attack them with a knife because they took some shitty class. If someone with a knife goes against someone unarmed the unarmed person is probably going to get injured. A class doesn't make them superman.

That said, a taser would have almost assuredly worked fine in this situation.

Or, i dont know, a warning shot? Or a shot to the leg. Or just one bullet mid-center? But no, this is 7 bullets followed by 2 more. This is way too over-excessive and borders on pathologic behavior.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Did we ever get the name of the officer who was waving around his assault rifle and threatening to kill journos last night?

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Black dude would have gotten shot 14 times.

With missiles.

And they probably would have also handcuffed his charred remains, just to be sure.

The cuffs also would have been made of kryptonite.

 

[abuC]

This been posted? Happened yesterday.

http://fox4kc.com/2014/08/19/police...pointing-rifle-at-motorists-on-interstate-29/



Missouri. White male. On highway. Pointing rifle at cars. Taken into custody.

I'm not mad that they were able to subdue him without incident, that's great, who knows what was wrong with this guy. But I for damn sure think that a black dude in a similar situation is getting taken out.

LOL......black man with toy gun shot and killed, white man pointing real rifle at people taken into custody.

America. fuck. yeah.

 

[Nabs]

This been posted? Happened yesterday.

http://fox4kc.com/2014/08/19/police...pointing-rifle-at-motorists-on-interstate-29/



Missouri. White male. On highway. Pointing rifle at cars. Taken into custody.

I'm not mad that they were able to subdue him without incident, that's great, who knows what was wrong with this guy. But I for damn sure think that a black dude in a similar situation is getting taken out.

A black guy with a rifle would have ended in a death, for sure.

 

[Dead Man]

look, can we stop suggesting nonsense like disarming a knife wielder. It is rubbish, very fucking dangerous, and something to be avoided if possible.

What we should be focussing on is the lack of de escalation techniques on display and the utterly woeful state of mental health response training.

 

[Badosh]

Did we ever get the name of the officer who was waving around his assault rifle and threatening to kill journos last night?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/20/ferguson-cop-i-will-kill-you_n_5695748.html

Ray Albers.

The St. Ann Police Department has released a statement saying the officer involved in threatening protestors has been "suspended indefinitely."

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

A black guy with a rifle would have ended in a death, for sure.

Yeah. The guy in the walmart shooting didn't even have a real rifle and he was shot dead.

 

[Christopher]

look, can we stop suggesting nonsense like disarming a knife wielder. It is rubbish, very fucking dangerous, and something to be avoided if possible.

What we should be focussing on is the lack of de escalation techniques on display and the utterly woeful state of mental health response training.

Getting stabbed is worse than getting shot I fear ever getting stabbed
.

 

[Timedog]

Or, i dont know, a warning shot? Or a shot to the leg. Or just one bullet mid-center? But no, this is 7 bullets followed by 2 more. This is way too over-excessive and borders on pathologic behavior.

Police don't shoot to disarm the threat they shoot assure a kill, it's really, really dumb.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Or, i dont know, a warning shot? Or a shot to the leg. Or just one bullet mid-center? But no, this is 7 bullets followed by 2 more. This is way too over-excessive and borders on pathologic behavior.

Police aren't trained to shoot people in the limbs, that stuff only works in the movies. Officers shoot to kill when neutralizing a threat and there's no limit on how many bullets they can fire, that is up to their discretion. Honestly, if somebody is coming at me with a knife and I'm an officer, I'm not risking collateral damage by aiming for a limb or shooting to wound. Heck, even a taser is dangerous because if you fuck up and miss, you're dead. I think the use of deadly force in the situation with an unpredictable knife wielder is warranted.

 

[J10]

This been posted? Happened yesterday.

http://fox4kc.com/2014/08/19/police...pointing-rifle-at-motorists-on-interstate-29/



Missouri. White male. On highway. Pointing rifle at cars. Taken into custody.

I'm not mad that they were able to subdue him without incident, that's great, who knows what was wrong with this guy. But I for damn sure think that a black dude in a similar situation is getting taken out.

Please. They would have thrown a grenade in his car.

 

[Jaeger]

look, can we stop suggesting nonsense like disarming a knife wielder. It is rubbish, very fucking dangerous, and something to be avoided if possible.

What we should be focussing on is the lack of de escalation techniques on display and the utterly woeful state of mental health response training.

You are right. It's impossible to disarm and arrest a man with a knife.

 

[Indicate]

Since this new incident keeps getting brought up, here's an example of someone getting shot 9 times and then tasered right after holding a knife.

http://globalnews.ca/news/788381/toronto-police-officer-charged-in-the-death-of-sammy-yatim/

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/08/27/sammy_yatim_a_timeline.html

The case is still ongoing and these actions by the constable did spark public outrage. The constable was held accountable for his actions.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Jaegar your link is broken.

edit: thanks

 

[Jaeger]

Jaegar your link is broken.

Fixed.

 

[minx]

Or, i dont know, a warning shot? Or a shot to the leg. Or just one bullet mid-center? But no, this is 7 bullets followed by 2 more. This is way too over-excessive and borders on pathologic behavior.

Warning shots are not permitted is most departments. You don't shoot specific body parts. It's clear you have never shot a pistol before. It's clear you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[otapnam]

Warning shots are not permitted is most departments. You don't shoot specific body parts. It's clear you have never shot a pistol before. It's clear you don't know what you are talking about.

For whatever reason not all officers are armed with tasers either.

 

[marrec]

look, can we stop suggesting nonsense like disarming a knife wielder. It is rubbish, very fucking dangerous, and something to be avoided if possible.

What we should be focussing on is the lack of de escalation techniques on display and the utterly woeful state of mental health response training.

Dead Man, you're on point as usual.

I was listening to NPR yesterday and they had an amazing piece on San Antonio police officers who are trained to specifically deal with mentally ill patients who would otherwise go to jail.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/201...help-reweave-social-safety-net-in-san-antonio

The officers spot a call for help on their laptop from a group home across town.

A few minutes later, the SUV pulls up in front of the group home. A thin 24-year-old sits on a wooden bench out back, wearing a black hoodie.

Jail is an expensive, ineffective way to treat the mental health problems that underlie some low-level crime, police in San Antonio say. In Part Two of her Morning Edition series, reporter Jenny Gold takes us inside an alternative treatment program.

"You're Mason?" asks Bandoske. "What happened to your blanket?" Eight years ago, the next stop for someone like Mason would have been a hospital emergency room or jail. (Because of his condition, NPR is not using Mason's last name.) But the Bexar County jail, in San Antonio, was so overcrowded — largely with people with serious mental illnesses — that the state was getting ready to levy fines.

This sort of situation is not unusual: Across the country, jails hold 10 times as many people with serious mental illness as state hospitals do, according to a recent report from the Treatment Advocacy Center, a national nonprofit that lobbies for better treatment options for people with mental illness.

To deal with the problem, San Antonio and Bexar County have transformed their mental health system into a program considered a model for the rest of the nation. Today, the jails aren't full, and the city and county have saved $50 million over the past five years.

 

[thepotatoman]

It was two St. Louis officers, eh? Not Ferguson officers.

Honest question. If I'm wrong, tell me.

I'm not entirely sure how the police depts are sectioned off, but I do know Ferguson city resides in St. Louis County and is basically merged with St. Louis City.

 

[Nanashrew]

Dead Man, you're on point as usual.

I was listening to NPR yesterday and they had an amazing piece on San Antonio police officers who are trained to specifically deal with mentally ill patients who would otherwise go to jail.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/201...help-reweave-social-safety-net-in-san-antonio

We need more of that.

 

[block tower]

so when do we get an amendment that allows citizens to defend themselves from law enforcement if we fear our life is in mortal danger?

 

[Nabs]

Live stream of the march in NYC: http://m.ustream.tv/stopmotionsolo

edit: okay, this is no longer about anything.

 

[FkLA]

So no VICE feed tonight? Tim Pool is apparently back in NYC

 

[BronsonLee]

Or, i dont know, a warning shot? Or a shot to the leg. Or just one bullet mid-center? But no, this is 7 bullets followed by 2 more. This is way too over-excessive and borders on pathologic behavior.

No warnings shots or shots to the leg, you shouldn't be drawing your gun and not using it/accuracy diminishes greatly, but the potential lethality doesn't/the potential collateral damage increases way more.

One or two bullets center mass makes perfect sense, though. Not nine.

 

[minx]

For whatever reason not all officers are armed with tasers either.

They should be. But according to the use of force protocol you don't use a taser on someone with a knife. It's not safe.

 

[Weiss]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/20/ferguson-cop-i-will-kill-you_n_5695748.html

Ray Albers.

Suspended indefinitely? JFC is a cop actually facing consequences?

Colour me surprised.

 

[antonz]

So no VICE feed tonight? Tim Pool is apparently back in NYC

the other crew is still there. alice

 

[Nabs]

So no VICE feed tonight? Tim Pool is apparently back in NYC

Vice should still be out there.

 

[Eric WK]

Vice should still be out there.

Yeah, they're out there. Will go live if anything develops.

 

[Renzoku]

Suspended indefinitely? JFC is a cop actually facing consequences?

Colour me surprised.

It seemed that it was running out of steam yesterday. It's really stormy here tonight too, so there won't be much of a crowd.

 

[marrec]

We need more of that.

Hell yes. There's a difference between a guy begging you to kill him and a guy who's trying to escape the scene of a crime or cause injury to yourself or others.

 

[EatinOlives]

So no VICE feed tonight? Tim Pool is apparently back in NYC

I'm surprised Tim didn't go walk around the airport going "...anybody have an extra ticket to NYC?"

 

[Indicate]

Live stream of the march in NYC: http://m.ustream.tv/stopmotionsolo

Thanks.

 

[NervousXtian]

They are trained professional law enforcement, it is not the same thing. One doesn't need to put oneself in a police officer's shoes because one isn't trained in self-defense the way police officers are. Your comparison does not make any sense.

I do agree with your other point about telling people to fuck off though, even if that clown is clowning around like a clown!

No amount of training makes you not be human. Asking someone to risk being stabbed or killed to potentially arrest someone who is coming at them with a knife honestly is asking quite a bit. I think a taser would have been a good option, but it really happened very very quickly with how the guy kept moving around and then coming towards them.

The fault lies completely with the guy with the knife.

When someone treats a discussion on tactics on how to prevent a death and falsified police reports with "lol, I'm out... You guys are soooo hopeless." They should fuck off, especially when misstating things and then getting offended when getting called on it.

I can tolerate your lame suggestion that we dehumanize cops instead of the people being killed by them, without telling you to fuck off. At least that's not suggesting that we're all hopeless idiots.

The guy might be a clown, but he clearly had mistyped "gun" instead of "knife", he already was addressing the same thing earlier. Latching on to his typo wasn't necessary, because I can't see how someone really read into what he wrote as believing he actually thought the guy had a gun.

I very much doubt that any cop is going to effectively disarm me if I'm trying to attack them with a knife because they took some shitty class. If someone with a knife goes against someone unarmed the unarmed person is probably going to get injured. A class doesn't make them superman.

That said, a taser would have almost assuredly worked fine in this situation.

Exactly, no amount of training will make stopping someone with a knife safe. I agree though, taser should have been attempted first.. but it escalated pretty damn quick.

 

[Nabs]

Oakland: https://www.ustream.tv/embed/9841446

 

[Dead Man]

Dead Man, you're on point as usual.

I was listening to NPR yesterday and they had an amazing piece on San Antonio police officers who are trained to specifically deal with mentally ill patients who would otherwise go to jail.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/201...help-reweave-social-safety-net-in-san-antonio

That is an awesome response by SA. You will never be 100% able to be responded to every situation without force but shit like that helps a lot.

You are right. It's impossible to disarm and arrest a man with a knife.

Learn to read what is written instead of what you want to argue against. I never said it was impossible to either disarm or arrest a person with a knife.

Of course you can disarm them, it is just dangerous as fuck. And the de escalation techniques and response training are there so they can be arrested without resorting to force.

Seriously, how in the fuck do you think my post was saying you can't arrest people who are armed with a knife? Fucking hell.

 

[Lime]

Warning shots are not permitted is most departments. You don't shoot specific body parts. It's clear you have never shot a pistol before. It's clear you don't know what you are talking about.

Apparently you still haven't made yourself aware of the numerous cases of police officers in other countries who were able to take down an armed person without killing them.

Now read up on that before you make another ignorant, uninformed, and deplorable justification of police murder.