*Shrug* I don't really get the great alt vs clone debate. To me if a character that could be an alt ends up being a clone, well nothing was really lost in that decision. Unless you really want to argue that the mere fact that a character is individually selectable on the CSS is hindering another character's inclusion... but that's silly.
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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread XIII: Leak Dynasty
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
- Status
Prevolition
Member
Yep, these are justification enough. Haven't seen much of a backlash for those, oddly. It's nice to see a Melee character return.
Professor Beef
Banned
Mhmm.
I should probably clarify. I mentioned earlier that I don't like Dark Pit because it reminds me too much of the Cole fiasco from PS All-Stars. My dislike from Bowser Jr. comes from his design, primarily him staying in the Koopa Car. I was mainly looking forward to using his paintbrush and stuff instead of just sticking him in the KC and calling it a day.
It's just a first impression, though. Once I get my hands on the game I could easily be wrong, but it just rubs me the wrong way.
The Great Gonzales
Member
I think people still labor under the idea that there are "slots," and that Ice Climbers were cut to make room for Dr. Mario. It's ridiculous, and you're absolutely right that if the Doc wasn't in, the roster would look the same minus the Doc, but I think people decide they don't like a character and then go searching for some rational, "objective" reason they shouldn't be on the roster.
Weiner Whistle
Member
Wow, big news today! Am I the only one who thinks that Dark Pit might not actually be a clone?? It looks like he's using his staff in the artwork, which wouldn't make any sense with Pit's moveset.
Beelzebufo
Banned
I think he was talking about people who were mad about Doc, not people who were mad because their favorite didn't make it.
GiantBreadbug
Member
No I don't hate Doc but I mean it's just kinda like
an alt really really would've sufficed I think.
an alt really really would've sufficed I think.
Hyperactivity
Banned
PALUTENAGATE CONTINUES
Vaanrose (one of the original leakers of the ONE TRUE LEAK), said that MFL did NOT create the fake Palutena image, and that his friend did. The Palutena faker gave them to MFL in order to try to encourage him to share more info about his source.
Waaaiiit, soo, fake?
WOOOHOOO
Bring out your avatars with Team PAlutena Fake leak on them, we won one of the arguments guys
A Link to the Past
Banned
People hated Evil Cole because for some reason, they felt a need to scrap the bottom of the barrel in order to find things that are "wrong" with the roster. Everyone being wrong doesn't mean shit.
Anyone who is upset by the fact that Dr. Mario gets a slot is wrong to be upset because there isn't anything to gain by grouping him w/ Mario. There are a lot of people who like playing as Dr. Mario as an individual character, so why does it bother you that they get that?
Professor Beef
Banned
And can someone explain to me how Bowser Jr. will have the Koopalings as alts? Will the name change to each respective Koopaling? I would find it strange to play as Roy and see it still say "Bowser Jr." --- but at least I'd get to play as a Roy in Smash Bros. again.
I'm about 90% certain they'll have their own names. The models and audio will change, so I'm assuming the names will too. I wasn't told anything about the names, though.
PALUTENAGATE CONTINUES
Vaanrose (one of the original leakers of the ONE TRUE LEAK), said that MFL did NOT create the fake Palutena image, and that his friend did. The Palutena faker gave them to MFL in order to try to encourage him to share more info about his source.
Ugh, no. I'm done for the day. I'm just waiting for Sakurai's PotD that dodges all of this and call it a night.
Dimitri LH
Member
Wearing my new avatar that I am honoring from the avatar bet I lost with Heath....this is going to be a long two weeks.
The Great Gonzales
Member
It occurs to me that the Koopalings as alts for Bowser Jr. totally blows out of the water the theory we used to bat around that alts will only be variations of the base character rather than different people.
GiantBreadbug
Member
I mean, yeah it's great that you can play as Doc separately but I mean
A separate character just to make Mario heavier and give him his old Down B is kinda
It's just, I dunno
I'm happy for people who wanted it, there
A separate character just to make Mario heavier and give him his old Down B is kinda
It's just, I dunno
I'm happy for people who wanted it, there
Prevolition
Member
Good. Goood.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
I don't believe in slots at all. I just think it looked dumb in Melee and looks dumb here to have the same guy in a different outfit and minimal-stat changes (going off what's been said/shown of Lucina at least?) have two different slots, especially if you go off him supposedly being a costume originally. He would've been in the game either way!
People are allowed to be mildly OCD about this sort of stuff or have a negative opinion on an addition without bordering some pathological hatred for Sakurai over it, god.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Troubled Bat
Member
tonyh24613
Member
WiiU stage.
Beelzebufo
Banned
It's awesome, and adding him as a legit character takes nothing away while adding a ton.
I was completely sattisfied with the Roster before Shulk was revealed and at that point, everyone I wanted except Shulk was already deconfirmed.
Although I can understand, people play these types of games to play as their favorites.
Also does anyone know where I can see the videos? I just got home, but it seems they were taken down.
Hyperactivity
Banned
I just want Sakurai to switch a planned dlc and main game veteran.
Like make Wolf in the main game and Falco dlc
Or Jigglypuff and Mewtwo
etc.
PadWarrior
Member
Of course!
ShockingAlberto
Member
I mean
Genuine question
Would you just prefer it be nothing? Because you wouldn't be alone, I've seen people here express that sentiment.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Stage Builder because a touch-screen being available for both versions should make it way more fun to use.
I'd obviously prefer him over nothing, but I'm honestly thinking he would've been an alt for Mario if he wasn't in the clone corner because that's what was going to happen with Lucina originally, someone who has way more to justify her being separate from Marth than the Dr. does for Mario.
GiantBreadbug
Member
I don't know about a ton
Like maybe a little for some people
I know it doesn't take anything away but I still think it's silly (hyperbolic term, I know)
A Link to the Past
Banned
Lucas isn't a clone.
Beelzebufo
Banned
If it's a ton for some people, that's still a ton when the alternative is nothing for anybody.
Like
I dunno
Yeah it's literally nothing but good.
It's like...
If this uh...
Was an ecological interaction it'd be like,
I dunno
Commensalism.
A Wii U pic so the attention goes elsewhere.
GiantBreadbug
Member
I'd prefer it be an alt, which I guess rules out stat and move changes but it wouldn't be a big deal to me. Honestly I think the novelty of Doc is literally all in the costume but that's just me
I guess, yeah, but I think the main thing for me here is it's not a terribly big deal to me either way
ShockingAlberto
Member
I don't think it's anything like Cole/Evil Cole because that was one character and not even a particularly great one in a game that was hurting for variety.
Dark Pit's a separate character who was playable in the game he's from. Even if he's a clone, which he probably is, it's not anything like Cole/Evil Cole.
Mario/Wario almost fits that better.
This is a game where the core gameplay is heavily determined by who you can play as. Not discussing the roster for a fighting game like this would be frankly boring and I think it is fun to talk about what makes a character good or bad. Ultimately I don't think many of us are too hung up over it anyway once the game comes out. We may be disappointed that characters we like don't get in, but with such a large variety people are bound to find several replacements. That and I think criticism is an important component of discussing any product / work.
I know, I'm so sad that Lucas will be cut though, I hope in some way we see him
How would that work tho?
He can't chuck fireballs or use the fludd...that would be silly and out of character. and if they changed those two things, then the precedent Lucina showed would come into play. So thus he became a fully fledged character.
and in the end the difference in work, is minimal and probably didn't get anything cut because that isn't how it works.
I do hope they make them more different. I thought Dr Mario was slower but stronger than regular Mario. Maybe they can flesh it out more (replace the cape/sheet with a virus like move or something or maybe his upB?).
But even if they don't , it isn't a bad addition. It didn't take the place of <insert character here>.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Well, Well. You look pretty there. :lol
He can't avoid us anymore soon.
Hyperactivity
Banned
Sakurai needs to disprove the leak. And in the best way possible. I want a POTD that's completely nuts. We should be seeing Lucas and Wolf and the IC and Ivysaur together with a Grey Fox assist trophy and Red in the background
Next day, reveal Chorus Men, Bowser Jr., and Duck Hunt Dog with Shulk
Oh, I think I may have remembered hearing about that a long while back
Next day, reveal Chorus Men, Bowser Jr., and Duck Hunt Dog with Shulk
Oh, I think I may have remembered hearing about that a long while back
Beelzebufo
Banned
Then this pretty clearly isn't a character meant for you in the first place, right? I'm sure some people felt the same way about Luigi at some point. It's just silly.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I saw someone disappointed with the roster because there weren't any grass-type Pokemon.
You're not going to convince me that wide swaths of the discussion isn't made of crazy people.
The Great Gonzales
Member
Sorry, I didn't mean to include you in this. I was thinking of a handful of people who have gone on and on about what a waste Dr. Mario is, how he hurts the roster, and how they'd have rather had X character instead. They really do seem to think that the Doc being in has cost them a unique character.
But that doesn't mean having a negative opinion of Dr. Mario automatically means you've staked out a position at that extreme. I wasn't in any way trying to get down on people who dislike certain characters. There are characters I think are worthless, too. As long as I don't act like those characters are actively detracting from the roster, I think I'm okay.
I really want to know if that's the Dark Pit Staff I'm seeing, as well
Letterbomb
Banned
It's relative how important his inclusion is depending on the fan. Huge fan of Doctor Mario? You'd love the fact that he's his own character, with different stats, different customizable moves, different voice overs, different animations, etc. Indifferent toward Doctor Mario (like me)? Nothing was taken from the game for his inclusion, so you get a bonus character to tease the thought of maining. Hate Doctor Mario? Ignore him. His inclusion doesn't and shouldn't affect your view on the quality of the roster.
(Not speaking directly to you by the way. Hope it doesn't seem like I'm necessarily calling you out.)
Clones in general bother me, I feel like their presence cheapens the roster. I like it when each and every character represents a totally distinct playstyle, and when you start adding lazy clones like Dr Mario and Dark Pit in there it feels like cruft accumulating on the roster if that makes sense. Lucina would be fine as an alt costume, it's a bit silly that they went out of their way to differentiate her (and even less than any Melee clone).
I make an exception for Toon Link because Zelda is so huge a franchise that "adult Link" and "cel-shaded Link" are both major characters that deserve representation. I wish their movesets were more differentiated though.
I make an exception for Toon Link because Zelda is so huge a franchise that "adult Link" and "cel-shaded Link" are both major characters that deserve representation. I wish their movesets were more differentiated though.
Professor Beef
Banned
You're probably right. I don't really know anything about Dark Pit, but again, first impressions.
MisterWisp
Member
GiantBreadbug
Member
No I have a flawless understanding of how Doc didn't cheat my favorite newcomer out of a spot, but I still think it's just weird. I'm not trying to take anyone's doc away from them, I just think it's weird and funny
And I think (personally) if I had to pick between Doc throwing fireballs and using FLUDD versus separate character I would pick the first but that's not supposed to mean I'm upset that the latter happened
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