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[zero shift]

Here is the debrief of it.

Seriously, I know it's old and all, but this episode was frightening. Camden literally seemed like a police state (I know it was exaggerated but what I saw scared me). I know that GAF always calls it out for a dangerous the city is but there are other solutions that don't require us to curtail our liberties our contains a $62 million police department budget.

 

[Coriolanus]

That Camden still remains a shithole shows how ineffective a repression-based approach is.

 

[gdt]

I was in Camden for five minutes once when I took a wrong turn and hopped on a bridge out of Philly.

It looks like a nuke went off.

 

[shuri]

It's a pretty rough area, but I'm all for systems like this. If I'm walking down the street or a loved one is and they get attacked, I want a way for cops to track them down. They have a similar system in the UK and it seems pretty efficient. Not perfect, but at least helpful

 

[benjipwns]

If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to be afraid of.

but there are other solutions that don't require us to curtail our liberties our contains a $62 million police department budget.

Yes, a $620 million police department budget is a step in the right direction.

 

[Abounder]

So basically who watches the watchmen kind of deal? As a layman isn't this kind of system common in say London and Vegas?

Anyway yea there should be someone watching the watchmen but I'm actually in favor of public surveillance. Just like how individuals can film people in the public.

 

[WavekSra]

Seems like a safe place to live.

 

[John Kowalski]

If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to be afraid of.

You won't mind me following you and videoing everything you do then, would you?

Just in case.

 

[charsace]

You aren't going to like the future if this bothers you. Camera's will be everywhere and going off the grid will be almost impossible.

 

[benjipwns]

You won't mind me following you and videoing everything you do then, would you?

Yes, because I do all sorts of wrong things.

 

[Mr.Swag]

I'm down with surveillance as long as it works.

If these cameras can even prevent one rape or murder then its worth it.

 

[TheJLC]

In Chicago we have thousands of Chicago Police POD cameras, Red Light cameras, and cameras on trains/buses. They have helped catch murderers, muggers/thieves, rapists, and close open air drug markets.

However, they are only as useful as the manpower available to monitor the cameras and the officers on the ground that can respond. They are not supposed to replace police officers. And the cameras do not deter crime, instead they are a good tool for detectives in catching the bad guys.

I'm for it as long as it's done in public areas and there are supervisors making sure they are only used to record public areas. They are a good tool in areas where there is very little cooperation with police. Sucks when the cameras aren't working though.

 

[KevinRo]

What are your thoughts on the cameras in London? Or about the shitty CCTV in place in Baltimore?

 

[John Kowalski]

Yes, because I do all sorts of wrong things.

Good.

Keep up the good work.

 

[zero shift]

If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to be afraid of.

I thought you were a libertarian?

Yes, a $620 million police department budget is a step in the right direction.

I'm not saying that police don't need more funding but there are more efficient ways of lowering crime down. A neighboring town by mine that hs , Racine, WI, is by no means a picnic. However crime is the lowest there in decades thanks to innovative community policing and contains a much smaller budget (and is around the same size as Camden) with zero erosions of civil liberties. There are alternatives to this.

What are your thoughts on the cameras in London? Or about the shitty CCTV in place in Baltimore?

The same.

 

[benjipwns]

I'm not saying that police don't need more funding but there are more efficient ways of lowering crime down. A neighboring town by mine that hs , Racine, WI, is by no means a picnic. However crime is the lowest there in decades thanks to innovative community policing and contains a much smaller budget (and is around the same size as Camden) with zero erosions of civil liberties. There are alternatives to this.

My opponent here is soft on crime, I propose raising the budget to $6.2 billion and putting two million more cops on the street and in monitoring rooms.

 

[way more]

The only reason to watch Vice is for their footage and this doesn't even have that.


OP, what about individual personal cameras on all cops? What if we had footage of what occurred in Ferguson and cops knew such footage would be reviewed. Here is an article on BWCs (Body Wear Cameras.) The article actually has a degree of research and context lacking in Vice.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...e_forced_to_videotape_themselves_for_our.html

Edit: I've learned that this was just a small segment on a entire issue of surveillance so it appears my criticism was unfounded.

 

[DECK'ARD]

I think most studies in the UK have shown CCTV to have little or no effect on crime.

 

[NEOPARADIGM]

I think most studies in the UK have shown CCTV to have little or no effect on crime.

Heh, makes sense really - just like how using your real name has had little to no effect on internet people being disgusting racists and the like.

 

[Coriolanus]

The only reason to watch Vice is for their footage and this doesn't even have that.


OP, what about individual personal cameras on all cops? What if we had footage of what occurred in Ferguson and cops knew such footage would be reviewed. Here is an article on BWCs (Body Wear Cameras.) The article actually has a degree of research and context lacking in Vice.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...e_forced_to_videotape_themselves_for_our.html

Edit: I've learned that this was just a small segment on a entire issue of surveillance so it appears my criticism was unfounded.

Now now, let us not go straight to hyperbole. Vice's coverage of conflict zones is very solid, and their interviews with boots on the ground...

 

[way more]

Now now, let us not go straight to hyperbole. Vice's coverage of conflict zones is very solid, and their interviews with boots on the ground...

I find there to be very little context. They show interesting footage, like beheadings, or tragic poverty but they end every each segment, "What this means for the future remains uncertain and unknown." Why not get someone who does know to a little analysis? Maybe a little more history, some modern context, some conjecture upon the future from experts?

I feel like the footage of beheadings does little more than say, "we were there and we actually saw it," than it does inform. I wish they would just sell their footage to better sources or shore up their ability to discuss anything with depth.

 

[PS3GamerKyle]

 

[Coriolanus]

I find there to be very little context. They show interesting footage, like beheadings, or tragic poverty but they end every each segment, "What this means for the future remains uncertain and unknown." Why not get someone who does know to a little analysis? Maybe a little more history, some modern context, some conjecture upon the future from experts?

I feel like the footage of beheadings does little more than say, "we were there and we actually saw it," than it does inform. I wish they would just sell their footage to better sources or shore up their ability to discuss anything with depth.

They are reporters. They report.
They also do get people that know what they are talking about on camera.

But yes, they also cover dog shows while tripping balls.
Most of the things they put in the HBO show are solid, tho

 

[Deleted member 13876]

I think most studies in the UK have shown CCTV to have little or no effect on crime.

I think in the Netherlands the city with the most cams has the most crimes. It was already an area with high crime I think but placing all those cams has done nothing to deter crimes according to the stats.

 

[Cagey]

I'm not saying that police don't need more funding but there are more efficient ways of lowering crime down. A neighboring town by mine that hs , Racine, WI, is by no means a picnic. However crime is the lowest there in decades thanks to innovative community policing and contains a much smaller budget (and is around the same size as Camden) with zero erosions of civil liberties. There are alternatives to this.

I don't know anything about Racine, Wisconsin, but I can confidently state -- with no knowledge of Racine, Wisconsin -- that Camden, New Jersey is untold times worse than Racine, Wisconsin before whatever reforms were implemented in that town.

Camden is a third world war-torn city in the United States.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

That Camden still remains a shithole shows how ineffective a repression-based approach is.

it is better than it once was but yeah. only when you start to see jobs move back into the area will you see the crime go down.

at the rate things are going, that'll be never.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Slifhtly different topic but data based approaches to crime prediction and highly publicizing that data with stuff like crime maps also runs the risk of people living there to start underreporting crimes because they don't want their property values to tank. Labeling an area as to be avoided can perpetuate the problems and create a self fulfilling prophecy. Then there is stuff like the danger of algorithms that supplement law enforcement being opaque and warped by the biases of the creator interpreting laws or situations in rigid fashions.

 

[zero shift]

The only reason to watch Vice is for their footage and this doesn't even have that.


OP, what about individual personal cameras on all cops? What if we had footage of what occurred in Ferguson and cops knew such footage would be reviewed. Here is an article on BWCs (Body Wear Cameras.) The article actually has a degree of research and context lacking in Vice.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...e_forced_to_videotape_themselves_for_our.html

Edit: I've learned that this was just a small segment on a entire issue of surveillance so it appears my criticism was unfounded.

Will read. Thanks.

I don't know anything about Racine, Wisconsin, but I can confidently state -- with no knowledge of Racine, Wisconsin -- that Camden, New Jersey is untold times worse than Racine, Wisconsin before whatever reforms were implemented in that town.

Camden is a third world war-torn city in the United States.

Camden makes Racine look like Beverly Hills. Regardless I understand that desperate times call for desperate measures but there are other solutions then this. New York and Racine have gotten their crime rates down with creative policing strategies that Camden has yet to try out.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

The pilot programs where cops wore cams were indeed apparently really successful. They just didn't continue the policy because reasons.

 

[fluffydelusions]

that red zone
http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Camden-New-Jersey.html

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

My opponent here is soft on crime, I propose raising the budget to $6.2 billion and putting two million more cops on the street and in monitoring rooms.

Benji, you are awesome.

 

[gutter_trash]

my GPS had us drive through Camden, NJ to get to downtown Philly....... we didn't know. Thank god we never stopped for gas, lol

 

[fluffydelusions]

I was in Camden for five minutes once when I took a wrong turn and hopped on a bridge out of Philly.

It looks like a nuke went off.

EDIT damn...that was a good pic too but banned bah

 

[zero shift]

OP, what about individual personal cameras on all cops? What if we had footage of what occurred in Ferguson and cops knew such footage would be reviewed. Here is an article on BWCs (Body Wear Cameras.) The article actually has a degree of research and context lacking in Vice.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...e_forced_to_videotape_themselves_for_our.html

Edit: I've learned that this was just a small segment on a entire issue of surveillance so it appears my criticism was unfounded.

I was reading the article and wondered who would be so comfortable around such surveillance. It turns out it was Reihan Salam, figures. Anyway I could see the arguments but my general problem is that I don't want surveillance cameras to be every single place I go when I leave my home. Everywhere I walk down the street, every store I go to, every time I go to school, and whenever I am at work. People shouldn't become comfortable being watched like they have started to since the PATRIOT ACT.

 

[zero shift]

Any other opinions? I saw that Americas top 25 dangerous neighborhoods thread, so I assume that there would be more interest with this.

 

[Makai]

Hey, it's the guy from Kumare!

 

[fluffydelusions]

]Any other opinions? I saw that Americas top 25 dangerous neighborhoods thread,[/B] so I assume that there would be more interest with this.

I think Camden has been in top 10 since the 90's

 

[Zornica]

Any other opinions? I saw that Americas top 25 dangerous neighborhoods thread, so I assume that there would be more interest with this.

In my opinion, treating the symptoms rather than the disease is never the answer. But that would require some actual (nationwide) effort and probably isn't feasible atm.

I think it's worrying that people would trade their privacy for a false sense of security. As others have pointed out, mass surveillance is practically useless for preventing crimes.

 

[zero shift]

In my opinion, treating the symptoms rather than the disease is never the answer. But that would require some actual (nationwide) effort and probably isn't feasible atm.

I think it's worrying that people would trade their privacy for a false sense of security. As others have pointed out, mass surveillance is practically useless for preventing crimes.

East Orange, NJ had their crime rate halved in three years according to Vice.