Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 14: Snake... had a hard life

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Mysterious said:
So this guy was apparently an intern (which NoA doesn't do), and apparently knows of Sakurai's personal plans? I honestly don't think anyone at NoA (or hell even NCL) knows about Sakurai's plans with posts of the day. It seems to be more of a creative decision from the director, rather than corporate mandate.

Also a guy who's being sued will not continue to leak.
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Do you realize that Sakurai probably just approve the image and text, right? That it ain't him posting the picture of the day? It's the marketing dept dude.
 
Holy this one was right in the feels.

Got in on Reddit.

8u84YME.jpg
 
Ryce said:
I suspect Alph and the Koopalings will be treated as special "costumes" with their own names and voices, which is what you seem to be suggesting. But when characters like Toon Link and Lucina have unique attributes, a few unique animations, and their own taunts, they aren't "alts" anymore and deserve their own select screen tiles.
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I somewhat disagree but its mainly just my own opinion. Characters like Toon Link and Lucina that have unique attributes are fine and dandy, but I kinda see it as laziness still. If Sakurai can give them unique attributes to try to "lessen" their clone nature, then why half ass it? Why not go all the way and just give them their own moves? I mean I'm sure making a character model, giving it its own voice and mannerisms and such isn't as easy feat within itself...why do all that just to go easy on their moveset?
 
Pic of the day: Thanks to the hard work and determination of guys male designer, here is an alternate costume of Shull in shorts!

Edit: *Shulk not Shull
 
[QUOTE="D";127253756]- Putting clones in the game that aren't Luigi. Back in Melee, Young Link even could have had his own weapons and slightly different moves since he had Majora's Mask already out and that could have given that game some good shine and attention. Ganondorf was just lazy, there's no logical way to defend this AT ALL. What's worse is his moveset was based on a character that he has NOTHING to do with in the slightest[...]Luigi is the only one I feel deserves a pass as a "clone" because him and Mario are siblings and kinda share the same "discipline" anyway and this is reflected in all of their games.[/QUOTE]

Ganondorf was a clone because there wasn't enough time to develop a unique moveset for him in Melee. It was either make him a clone or exclude him altogether. I don't know why exactly he was made a Falcon clone, but I'd guess it was because Falcon's model was the closest one, which made animating him simpler. That's a shot in the dark, though.

Luigi isn't even a clone.

[QUOTE="D";127253756]- Removing characters. This applies to any "fighting genre" game even outside of Smash Bros as far as I'm concerned. When I think of a game, and a sequel to said game, I think of IMPROVEMENTS...adding things in to expand the player's experience with the game and make it different and better from the LAST, worthy of being called a sequel. To me, unless whatever you are removing from the game was a broken feature or something that was universally disliked, there is NO fair* reason to remove characters. *Some companies make them paid/free DLC later, it sucks but it happens*[/QUOTE]

Not every character can make it back. For one, the roster would get bloated and it would be way harder to balance (Sakurai himself has pointed this out.) Also, there simply isn't enough time to bring back everyone.

[QUOTE="D";127253756]Now, I do understand some people will say that clones don't impact the state of development due to how its perceived "easy" to implement them with very little work other than a model change and minor cosmetics...therefore not "hurting" any other character's chances of being included or removed, but at the same time for people that don't have this type of foresight, at least let us BELIEVE that having clones in the game doesn't hurt anyone else's chances. What I mean is instead of giving them their own spot on the character select screen, just include them in with the character they are "cloned" from, ala the "placebo effect."

As stated before, most people (especially casuals) wouldn't readily see the aforementioned truth without a bit of poking and prodding concerning clones but anyone who plays each iteration of the game and sees additions/removals in the roster can't help but to feel perhaps their character was either replaced or whatever the case may be.[/QUOTE]

So you're saying that there shouldn't be clones because people who don't understand how games are developed will get the mistaken idea that their favorite character was cut to put this character in?
 
ShockingAlberto said:
We might just be making an assumption that representation in Smash Run means representation in the character select. We only assume that because all the enemies we have seen in Smash Run have character corollaries, but it's a Nintendo universe game. Most enemies they use will have a series a Smash character represents.

Ice Climbers enemies in Smash Run could easily mean the opposite, that not every enemy in Smash Run has a character representative.
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Yep. Although putting the Polar Bear in Smash Run would feel weird, insofar as we'd know that Sakurai knows he's including a reference to a series that once had a playable character (and that playable character, in turn, had fans), but now that rep is gone in its entirety.

Another theory: Perhaps Sakurai tried for a while to get Ice Climbers to work the way he wanted in both versions, and so Polar Bear was planned for a while, as well. But maybe they're both now cut. *shrugs*
 
Mysterious said:
Considering how hands-on Sakurai is (even for things such as QA), I really doubt this.
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I hate to break your dreams dude, but it's not him.

He may go to the meetings and approve what will be posted and circa when it'll be posted, heck, he probably says what he wants to be shown and when, but it ain't him who hit the button, it ain't him who goes everyday doing this, it's the social media dude at Nintendo.
 
The Great Gonzales said:
Ganondorf was a clone because there wasn't enough time to develop a unique moveset for him in Melee. It was either make him a clone or exclude him altogether. I don't know why exactly he was made a Falcon clone, but I'd guess it was because Falcon's model was the closest one, which made animating him simpler. That's a shot in the dark, though.

Luigi isn't even a clone.



Luigi started off as a semi-clone but yeah he eventually branched off into his own. Not every character can make it back. For one, the roster would get bloated and it would be way harder to balance (Sakurai himself has pointed this out.) Also, there simply isn't enough time to bring back everyone.





So you're saying that there shouldn't be clones because people who don't understand how games are developed will get the mistaken idea that their favorite character was cut to put this character in?
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I'm saying it should be handled differently to at least keep people from assuming that this is whats happening, because the cry about having xxx removed or having a "mistreated moveset" is just as high as people begging for xxx to be included. Either make them an alt w/special properties or give them their own moveset.
 
Ryce said:
1. http://www.smashbros.com/us/

2. Click on the picture.

3. "This game image was taken by director Masahiro Sakurai during development."

He even said during last year's E3 that he would be taking and uploading daily pictures by himself.
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Sakurai is linguistically tricky. He was probably referring to his sarcastic doppelganger, Dark Sakurai, which he accidentally released from the Mirror of Truth.
 
Vuapol said:
I'm very interested to hear what Sakurai's justification for
potentially
cutting Snake will be.

In any case, be strong my Smash brothers. DLC- Leave no man behind.
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...there is none. I highly doubt Sakurai or Kojima cut Snake. It was probably the higher ups at Konami if anything. Probably wanting more of a cut (no pun intended) or something. I'd say maybe the higher ups at Nintendo, but I don't think anyone higher up would force Sakurai to cut him and I just don't think Sakurai would on his own.
 
Neiteio said:
Yep. Although putting the Polar Bear in Smash Run would feel weird, insofar as we'd know that Sakurai knows he's including a reference to a series that once had a playable character (and that playable character, in turn, had fans), but now that rep is gone in its entirety.

Another theory: Perhaps Sakurai tried for a while to get Ice Climbers to work the way he wanted in both versions, and so Polar Bear was planned for a while, as well. But maybe they're both now cut. *shrugs*
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I'd buy that theory, but also add that the Ice Climbers Polar Bear was probably a really easy import from the Ice Climbers level in Melee.
 
[QUOTE="D";127253756]- Putting clones in the game that aren't Luigi. Back in Melee, Young Link even could have had his own weapons and slightly different moves since he had Majora's Mask already out and that could have given that game some good shine and attention. Ganondorf was just lazy, there's no logical way to defend this AT ALL. What's worse is his moveset was based on a character that he has NOTHING to do with in the slightest. As much as I like Roy (one of my mains), he could have been an alt for Marth with special properties or something if it arsed him that much to give him his own moveset. The way Pichu was handled was unnecessary. Jigglypuff was already the "joke" character but she was still effective in the right hands. I might be speaking for myself only but Pichu could have been left out. Dr. Mario should have been an alt as well with cosmetic changes like the pills and sfx. Nothing more. Falco could have gotten a different moveset that could have been a little creative with the blasters or maybe some other types of weapons. Luigi is the only one I feel deserves a pass as a "clone" because him and Mario are siblings and kinda share the same "discipline" anyway and this is reflected in all of their games.[/QUOTE]

If there wouldn't have been clones in Melee, we wouldn't have gotten the same amount of characters, as you seem to think. The Melee roster would've been made up of 20 characters (counting Sheik here), maybe 21 if Sakurai would've added Dedede instead of the 6 clones as he planned.
The reason why clone characters exist is to expand the roster with little workload, as the base animations etc. are already there. Yes, Falco, Ganon, Young Link etc. could have gotten a different moveset, but if you believe they would've been in Melee in that case, you're delusional. The Melee development team had the option of making a game with 6 more clones, or a game with 6 less characters.

- Removing characters. This applies to any "fighting genre" game even outside of Smash Bros as far as I'm concerned. When I think of a game, and a sequel to said game, I think of IMPROVEMENTS...adding things in to expand the player's experience with the game and make it different and better from the LAST, worthy of being called a sequel. To me, unless whatever you are removing from the game was a broken feature or something that was universally disliked, there is NO fair* reason to remove characters. *Some companies make them paid/free DLC later, it sucks but it happens*
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During development, there's this thing called "time restraints". The characters that were cut from Brawl all were clones - so you actually got part of your wish! - except for Mewtwo. And why Mewtwo was cut we don't know exactly, but it most certainly was a mixture of having little time to implement Sonic into the game, as well as other aspects (Sakurai mentioned in an interview that the Pokemon company is difficult to work with because they want their characters represented in a very certain way). Mewtwo was not intended to be removed up until the very last minute, as the amount of leftover data for him suggests, unlike most of the other characters that were cut much earlier into development. Overall, Brawl updated Young Link visually and decloned the kept clones further, and replaced 3 of Melee's clones (Doc, Pichu and Roy) and 1 unique character (Mewtwo) with a total amount of 16 characters, out of which none are as cloney as the cut clones, and the 2 new characters usually complained about being clones (Wolf and Lucas) are actually extremely unique in their gameplay.
If you think that's a downgrade, then I'm sorry, but that's a pretty stupid way of looking at this.

Also, if the rumors are true and Squirtle, Ivysaur and Snake are cut, then I don't see why you would think that a travesty either - Snake was a guest character from a 3rd party company. These characters always are in danger of not making any future rosters of fighting games. It's the same everywhere else. That's why they're "guests".
And Squirtle and Ivysaur are logical cuts. If they were kept in, we would have 5 gen 1 Pokemon, with only 2 other gen Pokemon as counterweight. Squirtle and Ivysaur also are not particularly popular within the Pokemon franchise, and gen 1 already is represented by 3 of its most popular mascots, so why bother adding 2 more semi- to notreally-popular ones? It's also likely that bringing in Squirtle and Ivysaur would remove 2 other (non-clone) characters from the roster instead.

Now, I do understand some people will say that clones don't impact the state of development due to how its perceived "easy" to implement them with very little work other than a model change and minor cosmetics...therefore not "hurting" any other character's chances of being included or removed, but at the same time for people that don't have this type of foresight, at least let us BELIEVE that having clones in the game doesn't hurt anyone else's chances. What I mean is instead of giving them their own spot on the character select screen, just include them in with the character they are "cloned" from, ala the "placebo effect."
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That would be a stupid change. So if I wanted to play Falco or Ganondorf, I'd have to pick Fox/Falcon and scroll a billion times until I get that character, who is actually entirely different to play

As stated before, most people (especially casuals) wouldn't readily see the aforementioned truth without a bit of poking and prodding concerning clones but anyone who plays each iteration of the game and sees additions/removals in the roster can't help but to feel perhaps their character was either replaced or whatever the case may be.
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No character that was cut was replaced. With Dr. Mario coming back, we haven't seen any character who plays remotely close to Pichu or Mewtwo, and Lucina's slightly different from Roy in how their sword mechanics work, so even Roy would arguably have a place. So who has been replaced, then?
 
After people not understanding how Japanese fighting games are launched today, I have no presumption that any way of handling anything will convince dumb people not to be dumb.
 
Someone please quote that Lucas comic again, we need to kill MobileGAF.
ShockingAlberto said:
After people not understanding how Japanese fighting games are launched today, I have no presumption that any way of handling anything will convince dumb people not to be dumb.
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I think there's a difference between being disappointed in something and not understanding it.
 
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