Mario Kart picking the playable roster based on relevancy is suddenly a really compelling argument.
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 14: Snake... had a hard life
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Mario Kart picking the playable roster based on relevancy is suddenly a really compelling argument.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
I rather have her than the Villager.
A Link to the Past
Banned
If I recall, one or the other commented that the remaining newcomers were Duck Hunt Dog, Dark Pit, Dr. Mario (not a newcomer, sue me), Mewtwo (same), Dixie Kong, Ridley, Chorus Kids, Shulk, and Bowser Jr.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
superNESjoe
Member
The bolded part isn't really part of my point. My point was simply that people change their minds. The very reason why Ice Climbers were first introduced could easily be the reason they were removed (if they were). I made the example to demonstrate that Sakurai has changed his mind on something before. That's it.
Ice Climbers was introduced as an NES representative. As far as relevance is concerned for the duration of this statement, we are looking at NES representation, not modern.
Ice Climbers was not a well received or popular game. It is something very few people that grew up with an NES were ever aware of. Ice Climbers introduction in Melee was met with a loud, collective "who?" from even the oldest Nintendo fans because they were simply completely irrelevant even by dated NES standards.
As representatives of that console's legacy, they were a very poor choice.
Important to note though, Ice Climbers relevence currently is not as an NES rep, it's as a Smash Bros rep. Ice Climbers deserves to stay in the game simply because they are an iconic and popular Smash character, not NES character.
Duck Hunt sold nearly 30 million copies worldwide based on the statistics we have (it could very well be more than that). It's a game that, alone, has outsold even some of Nintendo's biggest franchises today. When you ask someone who grew up with an NES if they remember the Zapper and Duck Hunt, chances are they will. Chances are they'll also remember that bastard dog who laughed at them when they missed the ducks. Duck Hunt, and the dog, represent the NES far better because people who grew up with an NES actually remember them. They remember the game, they remember the dog, and seeing that character will bring back memories of the NES, something Ice Climber's didn't do as well.
In that context, speaking simply as NES reps, Duck Hunt Dog is a way better choice.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Yep, it's obvious that it's not final. Its more likely that we will see corrected roster CSS.
Benzychenz
Member
The extra space on the CSS, along with odd placements like Shulk being down by himself with third parties, coupled with All Star being locked gives me hope that Ice Climbers, Lucas and Wolf are all in, and were just locked in the ESRB build.
I want to believe.
I want to believe.
In addition to Villager having the different faces as alts, I'd like if you could pick animal villagers as alts too. I'd main Punchy.
Jawmuncher
Member
If be all over a AC rep if it was her.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I hope the remaining characters are Chorus Kids, Wolf, Ice Climber, Lucas, and Dixie Kong. Fitted like a glove bb
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Well, Melee and Brawl were really tough but I managed to get all trophies. Smash Wii U is more likely to get Boss Battle Mode again.
GiantBreadbug
Member
superNESjoe
Member
I'd be curious to hear that as well. From some of the comments from European gaffers in the other threads, Duck Hunt was pretty popular there as well.
BassForever
Member
I can't see us getting this blow out of newcomers that some of the leaks claim at this stage in the game. With just the css leak we know about Shulk, Bowser Jr, Duck Hunt Dog, and Dark Pit. We know there is at least 1 more newcomer video planned and probably a second based upon "close to the end but we have a few left" comment. If you assume there is also a rhythm heaven newcomer that isn't left in the css that would give us 3 newcomers not announced before launch and the remaining slots would be probably for unlockable vets (maybe Mewtwo, Ice Climbers, Wolf, and Lucas). Would fit pretty well and be a lot more reasonable then the remaining characters being dixie kong/ridley/etc
I own duck hunt here in the UK but I've played Ice Climbers much more, I actually really like the game and was surprised to see how many people are down on it.
Same with Balloon Fight, I must have played balloon trip for god knows how long. Was really surprised to see how hated it apparently is.
Same with Balloon Fight, I must have played balloon trip for god knows how long. Was really surprised to see how hated it apparently is.
superNESjoe
Member
Here in the states neither of those were very popular. I'm pretty sure even Mach Rider was a far more popular game. Excitebike would've made an amazing NES rep too.
Great post, specially because of this part. Ice Climbers add to Smash Bros because they have a really unique gameplay mechanic. If you take that, maybe there are more suitable NES representatives.
I find incredible how much of an impact the Smash franchise has on the popularity of some series. I think Uprising would have sell much less hadn't Pit appeared in Brawl. Same to the popularity of FE in West after Melee. The opposite for Punch Out Wii.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I admire your optimism, though I fear that your theory may rely on it a bit too much
Challenges are supposed to be easier now? Maybe there really are only 35...
And I really doubt we'd get one Ice Climber; it ruins their entire gimmick. I'm in the "weren't finished by the ESRB trailer but weren't sexy/gunny/disgusting/satanic enough to be necessary for the trailer" boat, but I can also see them being the very first batch of DLC alongside Lucas and probably Wolf/hopefully Snake & Ivysaur, if the Gematsu leak is anything to go by.
And I really doubt we'd get one Ice Climber; it ruins their entire gimmick. I'm in the "weren't finished by the ESRB trailer but weren't sexy/gunny/disgusting/satanic enough to be necessary for the trailer" boat, but I can also see them being the very first batch of DLC alongside Lucas and probably Wolf/hopefully Snake & Ivysaur, if the Gematsu leak is anything to go by.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I hate to contradict you, but I grew up in the states w/ Ice Climber and Balloon Fight and I had never even heard of Mach Rider until I played Super Smash Bros. Melee (14-years-old). That might be anecdotal, of course.
EDIT: On the subject of challenges, I've simmered down a bit and became more optimistic that we probably have hundreds besides the 35 from Stadium mode. In fact, I'm so optimistic that I'm expecting that beating a set number of challenges will unlock "Intense Challenges" for those who breezed through the regular challenges!
Excitebiker has been my number one choice for a new NES rep for ages, guess I'll have to settle with the excitebike track in the MK8 dlc and presumably the bike.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I'm staying out of relevant arguments but I have a question regarding with Duck Hunt.
I know Duck Hunt is very popular in United States and United Kingdom. So I'm curious about rest of other countries like Canada and Japan's stance on Duck Hunt?
I know Duck Hunt is very popular in United States and United Kingdom. So I'm curious about rest of other countries like Canada and Japan's stance on Duck Hunt?
A Link to the Past
Banned
Duck Hunt is Canada's national bird
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Maybe Sakurai don't want us to snap our 3DS into halves out of rage.
Well, it's more likely that there are more pages out there.
BassForever
Member
I admire your optimism, though I fear that your theory may rely on it a bit too much
So do you think that is the final css and layout? Or do you think we're getting more newcomers that aren't in the images but that the various leakers all claim but none can agree on?
I hope there are more than 35. Sakurai is known for his games being jam-packed with content and KI:U starts with just the one challenge grid and you unlock more so hopefully more are in there.
I'd say Excite Bike is indeed one of the number one choices for NES rep.
DSi and 3DS music visualiser based off of Excite Bike.
First 3DS 3D Classic was Excite Bike.
Always brought up whenever there are NES references i.e. Wario Ware and NES Remix.
Continued to get sequels unlike many NES titles brought up like BS Excite Bike, Excite Bike 64 and the Excite games on Wii.
Balloon Fight is also up there. Just hasn't really had the sequels, rather just inclusions like in Smooth Moves and Nintendoland. There was the Tingle version mind, but that was a graphics mod rather than sequel.
Puts both Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt to shame really.
The big problem is move potential. Sakurai already considered this for Melee and felt Ice Climbers made for a better move set than other characters. Obviously he has come up with a decent moveset for Duck Hunt Dog, but relevancy has nothing to do with it.
Relevancy just helps a character get considered, but it doesn't get them a place necessarily or get them in before someone else.
DSi and 3DS music visualiser based off of Excite Bike.
First 3DS 3D Classic was Excite Bike.
Always brought up whenever there are NES references i.e. Wario Ware and NES Remix.
Continued to get sequels unlike many NES titles brought up like BS Excite Bike, Excite Bike 64 and the Excite games on Wii.
Balloon Fight is also up there. Just hasn't really had the sequels, rather just inclusions like in Smooth Moves and Nintendoland. There was the Tingle version mind, but that was a graphics mod rather than sequel.
Puts both Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt to shame really.
The big problem is move potential. Sakurai already considered this for Melee and felt Ice Climbers made for a better move set than other characters. Obviously he has come up with a decent moveset for Duck Hunt Dog, but relevancy has nothing to do with it.
Relevancy just helps a character get considered, but it doesn't get them a place necessarily or get them in before someone else.
Yeah, that'd definitely be my guess too. I really don't see Sakurai settling for just 35 panels.
Geminosity
Member
Duck Hunt came on the same cart as Mario as far as I'm aware of in the UK. I didn't play ice climbers until much, much, much later and I didn't think much of it as a game. I've never even heard of mach rider until these threads but I was never much into driving games of any kind except f-zero and mario kart :3
I don't remember what I spent most of my NES days playing exactly but coop Bubble Bobble was definitely a decent chunk of it
Don't know about the arcade version, but the Nes version sold very little in JP compared to US, less then 1mm I believe.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Sorry, I must have misread the original post. Anyway, so far, there are only three sets of proposed remaining newcomers:
All Star - Chorus Kids, Dixie Kong, Mewtwo
Izat True (allegedly) - Marshal, Wolf, Ice Climber, Lucas
Ninka / Vaanrose - Chorus Kids, Dixie Kong, Mewtwo, Ridley
Obviously, at least two of these leakers are wrong.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Balloon Fight is a really solid and fun game. It's aged very well, has catchy music, nice graphics, good controls and is just generally more fun than the majority of the games from that era.
But the character just wouldn't work out in Smash. Sakurai tried it, he couldn't really make it work.
But he would probably be the best and most popular choice. Ice Climbers in turn, got lucky, because they were runners up behind him.
If Solopopo is in the game, it's because Sakurai didn't want to disappoint fans of Ice Climbers in Smash. Not because they represent the era anymore, so that's not really a good argument for why they are or should be cut.
But the character just wouldn't work out in Smash. Sakurai tried it, he couldn't really make it work.
But he would probably be the best and most popular choice. Ice Climbers in turn, got lucky, because they were runners up behind him.
If Solopopo is in the game, it's because Sakurai didn't want to disappoint fans of Ice Climbers in Smash. Not because they represent the era anymore, so that's not really a good argument for why they are or should be cut.
Is it? The NES isn't even that popular in the UK. Watch any show about old systems and it's always about the Spectrum, Commadore and BBC Micro. Sure people knew about Nintendo and Mario, but it's not the big 80s thing like it is in the States. The GameBoy, Tetris and Mario Land get name dropped more in regards to old Nintendo titles.
superNESjoe
Member
Please do, and don't feel bad! If I'm wrong about something absolutely correct me.
It could be anecdotal, a lot of it is based on who you are specifically and what market you're in. Zelda was a massive game and there are some people who never heard of it, just as there are those that grew up with those odd games that no one else had.
In the case of Duck Hunt specifically though, despite the majority of its popularity coming from the states, it demolishes the sales and popularity of Ice Climbers pre-Smash. Excitebike and Mach Rider don't, they were just silly side examples.
Is this an assumption based on the free space of the leaks character select screen!?
GiantBreadbug
Member
Off topic, but this edited episode of Spongebob pretty much sums up videogames right now, plus it's just plain funny:
http://vimeo.com/99423361
On topic: If I had my say on the last five characters, they'd be Lucas, Wolf, Ice Climbers, Mewtwo, and Chorus Kids. And if I could add five more I would go with Dixie, Ivysaur, Squirtle, Snake, and Ridley.
But I would never expect ten more characters. I'm cautiously optimistic about the first five (give or take Mewtwo).
http://vimeo.com/99423361
On topic: If I had my say on the last five characters, they'd be Lucas, Wolf, Ice Climbers, Mewtwo, and Chorus Kids. And if I could add five more I would go with Dixie, Ivysaur, Squirtle, Snake, and Ridley.
But I would never expect ten more characters. I'm cautiously optimistic about the first five (give or take Mewtwo).
The Bankslammer
Member
Honestly, looking back at this post kinda worries me now, lol
Like, when Pooka was the only Smash Run enemy we hadn't seen, I kinda dismissed this theory because he was a third party character, but now that we've seen Devil Car too...
It's true that no enemies other than Polar Bear and Sneaky Spirit are from series that don't have a playable character revealed yet, but at the same time, there weren't any other enemies from series with unrevealed playable characters either. Now that we know that Pooka, and in all likelihood, Devil Car, aren't being shown until their corresponding playable character is... why wouldn't they do the same for Polar Bear and Sneaky Spirit?
I want to say it's because Nintendo owns Ice Climber and Rhythm Heaven content (well, as far as characters go), but they can't toss around Mother and Namco characters without the proper copyright information... but we've already seen Mr. Saturn and the Franklin Badge in official press. This is obviously nothing definitive, and I don't want to draw any conclusions when we're so close to seeing the game release, but it's just a thought I had as soon as I saw the Devil Car and it kinda worries me, lol
Hero Prinny
Member
this is a good leak, I support this one. #TEAMREAL SON, LETS GO!
Beelzebufo
Banned
I'm pretty sure they're all wrong. The only leaked info comes from the video, and the video obviously didn't have any more characters. And Izat True is just some random guy.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Why would they all be wrong?
BassForever
Member
I thought the whole mewtwo/ridley/dixie kong thing to the ninka/vaanrose leak was added later and their original posts only had DHD/Bjr/Dpit/Shulk/DocMario which anyone who saw those leaked images/videos would mention.
The one consistent thing is nobody mentions 5 characters, perhaps the final space will be a dlc space?
Beelzebufo
Banned
Because none of them have any way of knowing if there's anything outside of what was shown in the video. The only one that could possibly be right is vanrose, since as far as we know Alph wasn't in the video. Are you sure that vanrose and friend added additional characters by the way?
InvincibleAgent
Member
I was talking about Ness
Ness is the most recognized character from a series with 3 games. That's 3 times the relevance of Ice Climbers.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Factually arbitrary and fanboy argument. Also Shulk is 50% Smash Bros. right now. Shaaaame
That's my hope, for sure. It would just be uncharacteristic of his design philosophies. I'm really hoping the 3DS version doesn't come off feeling like SSB Lite in comparison to the Wii U version. I'm hoping for both to feel like complete, full-fledged iterations.
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