Cops shoot and kill man holding toy gun in Walmart

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So we have improperly packaged toy guns, a fallacious 911 call, and trigger-happy cops.

The more details released the more it's clear the only person who did nothing wrong was the man that was killed.
 
While I am sad to see someone die from something like this.. I also believe that we do not know the whole story. Was this guy acting a certain way with the gun? Did the cops ask him to put it down and he now listen to them...

Too many questions and not enough answers.
 
MrPressStart said:
While I am sad to see someone die from something like this.. I also believe that we do not know the whole story. Was this guy acting a certain way with the gun? Did the cops ask him to put it down and he now listen to them...

Too many questions and not enough answers.
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Just two pages back.
blakep267 said:
Thread bump

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/...e-leaned-on-toy-gun-in-walmart-attorney-says/

Surveillance video shows an Ohio man talking on a cell phone, leaning on a toy gun, and facing away from officers moments before police shot and killed him in a Walmart store, according to an attorney for the man’s family.

John Crawford III died Aug. 5 after police were called to Walmart in Beavercreek, near Dayton, by another shopper who reported a man carrying what appeared to be an AR-15 rifle.

The 22-year-old Crawford was instead carrying an unpackaged MK-177 (.177 caliber) BB/pellet rifle he picked up in the store’s toy department.


Police claim Crawford ignored their commands to drop the weapon, and the former Marine who called in the report and witnessed the shooting said Crawford “looked like he was going to go violently.”

But attorney Michael Wright said surveillance video from the incident, which Ohio’s attorney general allowed him to watch with Crawford’s family, contradicted those accounts.

“John was doing nothing wrong in Walmart, nothing more, nothing less than shopping,” Wright said.

The attorney said surveillance video showed Crawford facing away from officers, talking on the phone, and leaning on the pellet gun like a cane when he was “shot on sight” in a “militaristic” response by police.

Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine announced Tuesday handed the case over to a special prosecutor to present to a grand jury Sept. 22.

Piepmeier, an assistant Hamilton County, Ohio, prosecutor, has handled more than 100 officer-involved shooting cases in his career.

He oversaw the grand jury investigation of Stephen Roach, who was indicted but later acquitted of a negligent homicide charge in the fatal 2001 shooting of 19-year-old Timothy Thomas that sparked race riots in Cincinnati.

DeWine said Tuesday he was glad he had allowed Crawford’s family to view the surveillance video, but he did not plan to publicly release the video to avoid tainting the jury pool.

“I thought the family had the right to view it,” DeWine said. “The mom did not want to view it; I understand it. The dad did view it, (but) to put the video out on TV is not the right thing to do.”

Wright said the family objected to the piecemeal release of evidence, such as dispatch audio and video on the day of the shooting, was biased toward the police.

“Everything released is one-sided,” Wright said. “There is nothing favorable to John Crawford. You can’t show different pieces, show it all, don’t trickle pieces to gain favor of the public.”

He said the video suggests Crawford probably did not see or hear officers as they arrived.

Crawford was speaking by cell phone to his girlfriend, who was with his parents, when he was shot.

“He said he was at the video games playing videos, and he went over there by the toy section where the toy guns were,” said LeeCee Johnson, the mother of his two children. “The next thing I know, he said, ‘It’s not real,’ and the police start shooting, and they said ‘Get on the ground,’ but he was already on the ground because they had shot him.”

Johnson put the phone on speaker mode, and she and Crawford’s parents heard him die.

“I could hear him just crying and screaming,” Johnson said. “I feel like they shot him down like he was not even human.”

A 37-year-old woman at the store suffered an unspecified medical emergency after the shooting and died a short time later.

Sgt. David Darkow, one of the officers involved in the shooting, has already been allowed to resume his duties.

The other officer, Sean Williams, remains on administrative leave.

Wright called on DeWine to turn over the case to the U.S. Department of Justice.

Watch this video report posted online by WDTN-TV:



So basically the couple killed 2 people
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Edit: It was TWO pages back, not three. No excuse for that "we don't have the full story" crap.
 
If he really wasn't pointing it at people and attempting to load it...

You would think an ex marine would be very familiar with the AR-15 and loading it. Not sure that could be a mistake.

Dude should be charged with filing a false report. I'm not sure if 911 calls are considered a police report though?

Even if that guy is a dumbass racist idiot the cops have no excuse for not seeing the situation as it was.
 
BHZ Mayor said:
Just two pages back.


Edit: It was TWO pages back, not three. No excuse for that "we don't have the full story" crap.
Click to expand...

#notallbenefitsofdoubt

"obviously the guy had to have contributed to his own demise. nothing else makes sense. I mean, otherwise this would be a completely illogical event."

like, no shit?
 
Big Baybee said:
Dude said he saw him attempting to load it. I'm furious. Fuck man.
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The old load and lean trick; Anyway, fuck that guy who was spouting bullshit about him brandishing the weapon around as if it was factual.
 
MrPressStart said:
While I am sad to see someone die from something like this.. I also believe that we do not know the whole story. Was this guy acting a certain way with the gun? Did the cops ask him to put it down and he now listen to them...

Too many questions and not enough answers.
Click to expand...
Did you bother reading the thread before you decided to post this stupid fucking shit?

I love when people post this "don't know the whole story" nonsense when the victim is black.
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
In what world would it make sense for someone to turn an air rifle onto armed police officers? And then reach for the gun, after being shot, as if it could then be used to stop his attackers? Keeping in mind that this criminally insane person was having a perfectly normal conversation with his family and gf at the time. Of course he's lying.
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Again, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the minutes before...

Zoe understands what I am referring to.

I'm not concentrating on the police, I'm concentrating on the idiots who followed this guy around the store and made a big deal out of nothing. Basically, if what I think happened is true, I want them arrested.
 
CrankyJay said:
Again, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the minutes before...

Zoe understands what I am referring to.
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Yeah, all we know now is a one sentence description of what happened. We don't have the video or what happened before (which is the important part RE: the couple who made the call). Zoe and Cranky want the full details, that's all.

As I said when this first started, I'm not sure we'll ever see the video until the trial, which truth be told, is a good thing.
 
Cops gonna cop. Pop pop your dead, now you have the right to remain silent.

Just sad, hopefully the video till the point he gets shot gets released so all the liars about the incident get called out.
 
Sounds like the AG's office has put together a video timeline and sequenced everything together along with the 911 calls.

http://www.whio.com/news/news/crime-law/2-news-conferences-today-walmart-shooting-death/ng8zF/?ref=cbTopWidget

Speaking in the Greene County courtroom where the grand jury will meet Sept. 22 to review the shooting of John Crawford, Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine listed the evidence his office has assembled.

This has included working with the FBI to create a "video summarization," linking the more than 200 cameras in Walmart with audio from 911 calls to create a timeline of the shooting.

"The vast majority of it is covered," he said. "This would allow people viewing this to see it from the moment people came into the store all the way to the shooting incident."
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The couple needs to be charged if this shows their call was complete BS. Their actions are what led to this incident. Negligent homicide?
 
ErnieMcCracken said:
Sounds like the AG's office has put together a video timeline and sequenced everything together along with the 911 calls.

http://www.whio.com/news/news/crime-law/2-news-conferences-today-walmart-shooting-death/ng8zF/?ref=cbTopWidget

The couple needs to be charged if this shows their call was complete BS. Their actions are what led to this incident. Negligent homicide?
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Holy shit, what? That is an extremely difficult process to undertake.

I think they're going after the couple. That's the only explanation for doing such a detailed process, especially including all the 911 calls. If it was just the cops, they would just go from when they entered the premises.
 
BronsonLee said:
Holy shit, what? That is an extremely difficult process to undertake.

I think they're going after the couple. That's the only explanation for doing such a detailed process, especially including all the 911 calls. If it was just the cops, they would just go from when they entered the premises.
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That was my gut feeling from day one that these two were rotten as shit.
 
BronsonLee said:
Holy shit, what? That is an extremely difficult process to undertake.

I think they're going after the couple. That's the only explanation for doing such a detailed process, especially including all the 911 calls. If it was just the cops, they would just go from when they entered the premises.
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Oh man this is going to be a HUGE story if the FBI are involved(not that it wasn't big already).

This is the kind of story legislation is born out of.
 
You'd think some guy with what looks to be a SCAR variant in an Ohio Walmart would be a decent indication to police that something is off. Not even remotely close to the common AR-15 called in.
 
I don't get why they don't use tasers at the very least. If they suspect that the person is dangerous then just tase him or something. Still kind of brutal but hell of a lot better than dying.
 
CrankyJay said:
That was my gut feeling from day one that these two were rotten as shit.
Click to expand...

I thought something was off when they started doing what was essentially a media tour about it. It really felt like they got wind that they might be in some deep trouble, and doing that may sway things their way.

DoktorEvil said:
Oh man this is going to be a HUGE story if the FBI are involved(not that it wasn't big already).

This is the kind of story legislation is born out of.
Click to expand...

Pretty much. FBI assisting is one thing, but the description of that timeline literally seems tailor made to say 'the people who made the 911 call are fucking lying'.

Unsure how it will shake out for the cops, though.
 
BronsonLee said:
Holy shit, what? That is an extremely difficult process to undertake.

I think they're going after the couple. That's the only explanation for doing such a detailed process, especially including all the 911 calls. If it was just the cops, they would just go from when they entered the premises.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, this probably means any blame for the officer will be deflected. They still shot an unarmed man that, from recent details, did not even appear to be threatening anyone.
 
Anton Sugar said:
Unfortunately, this probably means any blame for the officer will be deflected. They still shot an unarmed man that, from recent details, did not even appear to be threatening anyone.
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The police arrived with the mindset that they were dealing with someone carrying an AR and threatening other shoppers due to the 911 call. Not excusing what they did by any means, but the 911 call set the tone for their actions.
 
Anton Sugar said:
Unfortunately, this probably means any blame for the officer will be deflected. They still shot an unarmed man that, from recent details, did not even appear to be threatening anyone.
Click to expand...

See, I thought this too, but then why the special prosecutor? One who has indicted cops for similar incidents?

It might just straight up be a scorched earth thing. Cops may get a more lenient punishment, but I think they're focusing on the couple and are going to just totally steamroll the shit out of them
 
BronsonLee said:
I thought something was off when they started doing what was essentially a media tour about it. It really felt like they got wind that they might be in some deep trouble, and doing that may sway things their way.
Click to expand...

Just the simple facts that:

1. They were the only people in the store who felt he was a threat
2. They actively followed him around the store
3. The wife was hobbled on a motor scooter...my first inclination would be to scoot the fuck out of the store if I felt someone was going to rob the place.
 
I'm not saying the cops didn't do anything wrong here, but in a country where open carry is a reality, there's really no way to know when someone is waving a gun around if it's the real thing or not. That's at least part of the problem.
 
CrankyJay said:
Just the simple facts that:

1. They were the only people in the store who felt he was a threat
2. They actively followed him around the store
3. The wife was hobbled on a motor scooter...my first inclination would be to scoot the fuck out of the store if I felt someone was going to rob the place.
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1. You could kind of wave off this one, chalk it up to paranoia and such.
2. I think I spoke about this earlier in the thread, about how it reminded me of that episode of Smart Guy where a character was told to follow black people around in a store to make sure they didn't steal anything
3. This is where it all goes to hell. You're in fear of your life? So why are you following him? ....And on a scooter?

And then the interviews hit, and it all felt real rotten to me
 
clem84 said:
I'm not saying the cops didn't do anything wrong here, but in a country where open carry is a reality, there's really no way to know when someone is waving a gun around if it's the real thing or not. That's at least part of the problem.
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The video seems to suggest he wasn't even waving it around...at least not when the cops showed up. He was leaning on it while playing a game and talking on his cellphone.
 
BronsonLee said:
See, I thought this too, but then why the special prosecutor? One who has indicted cops for similar incidents?
It might just straight up be a scorched earth thing. Cops may get a more lenient punishment, but I think they're focusing on the couple and are going to just totally steamroll the shit out of them
Click to expand...

I missed this part in my first read of the update. The cops will catch a break because of the info these 2 relayed to the dispatcher, which led to the cops coming in the first place.

Honestly, after the media bullshit they pulled telling their bullshit story, I can't wait to see them steamrolled. They better lawyer up.
 
SuperEpicGuy said:
I don't get why they don't use tasers at the very least. If they suspect that the person is dangerous then just tase him or something. Still kind of brutal but hell of a lot better than dying.
Click to expand...

Most people think that firing a weapon in a high tensity situation is as easy and forgiving as it is in video games. In a dangerous situation, Tasers fire once and in many situations if they miss that shot they're dead. Firing an entire clip into an armed/dangerous suspect is also a fairly normal occurrence if weekly police videos on LiveLeak are any indication.

I'm not mentioning this to excuse what happened in this situation, the fucked up part about this tragic event was how things escalated to the point that they did.

clem84 said:
...there's really no way to know when someone is waving a gun around if it's the real thing or not. That's at least part of the problem.
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If I were in a situation with a potentially deadly looking weapon, I will always assume it's real. If you assume wrong, it's your life.
 
This is just going to keep happening until it starts happening to white people. Not that I'm advocating for the senseless shooting of white people by the police, I'm just saying.
 
Particle Physicist said:
They didn't just report the presence of what looks like a gun. They reported a man aiming the gun at people and children, looking menacing like he was about to cause mayhem.
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"There's a man with a gun!" - fact, sort of
"He looks dangerous!" - subjective
"He looks like he's going to rob the place!" - speculation

If he has a decent lawyer I don't see how he goes to jail, despite how at least half of this is his fault. Prosecution would have to prove malicious intent, when in reality he's probably just a paranoid racist who saw what he wanted to see.

Edit: For example, if I call the cops on someone sneaking in through a window holding a gun, and it turns out it was simply a neighbor who forgot his key holding a cell phone, I don't go to jail if they decide to resolve the situation by shooting an RPG through his front door.
 
Anton Sugar said:
Unfortunately, this probably means any blame for the officer will be deflected. They still shot an unarmed man that, from recent details, did not even appear to be threatening anyone.
Click to expand...
The cops definitely fucked up but the couple also led them to believe that they were dealing with an eyewitness confirmed active shooter
 
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