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[Kjellson]

I'm still pretty sure that Ice Climbers and a Rhythm Heaven character will be playable, be it unlockable or DLC. I almost want to bet on it, if it wasn't for my Mallo bet.

 

[Megalosaro]

Anyone else notice the Shulk trailer is titled "Looks like we don't have a choice"?

 

[Spinosaurus]

What does that video have to do with Rhythm Heaven?

"More than 40 characters" kinda suggests that the leaked roster is all we have.

 

[Neiteio]

Haven't had a chance to catch up yet. Anything come of the media summit?

 

[MiguelMexMIstery]

Thanks for the guys who answered me pages ago!

Anyone else notice the Shulk trailer is titled "Looks like we don't have a choice"?

Is it a reference to something in the game?

 

[Aaronrules380]

Just food for thought, but right now we currently have exactly 40 chars if we count each mii fighter seperately

 

[Dimitri LH]

Midnight. October 3.

Got an e-mail saying that. Was that release date already known?

Yes we knew.....but is this email from Nintendo or Gamestore? We all know the Downloadable version will be available on the eshop on midnight release. I really should check with my gamestop too see if they will have midnight launch.

 

[Megalosaro]

Thanks for the guys who answered me pages ago!

Is it a reference to something in the game?

I took it as a sign of "looks like you guys forced our hand."

 

[MrSaturn99]

It's not really so much that Ridley isn't iconic enough to get in as is that saying he's the most iconic Nintendo character not playable is just flat out wrong.

 

[Man God]

It's a reference.

 

[Guesong]

Donkey Kong Country alone sold more than half as much as the entire metroid franchise

Doesn't prove or disprove anything, though. As I said, I'm not taking any side here, but I find the logic you use at best unstable and just wish to discourse on it.

The initial statement you made was referring the number of different people playing a game, thus more iconic.

Now, if DKC sold 9 millions, compared to Metroid Series 18 millions. Let's say for the sake of argument that every individual that bought DKC also bought DKC2, and DKC3 (which they didn't, from my brief Google surmise. They still sold really solid but nowhere near DKC).

It would still only be 9 millions different people "knowing" (if they remember him at all) who K.Rool is.

Now, if we say that somehow - due to a genre shift with Metroid Prime, let's say - the same situation doesn't apply to Metroid, people who were never interested in Metroid as a 2D sidescroller got to try it out. They "know" Ridley (if they even remember him at all). And that the people who bought Super Metroid were disgusted with the genre shift, and ended up never buying another game of the series, etc, etc. But they, too, know Ridley. And the guy who bought a Wii just for the new Team Ninja game based on Metroid, he too knows Ridley.

Well I could go on explaining but I think you can understand where I'm coming from. The scenario I propose is highly unlikely : it's not meant to be likely, either. But you simply cannot judge "Well, since DKC sold more than 9 millions clearly more people will know K.Rool!" because you have no way of knowing who these people are. There's some things that sales data cannot account for.

 

[georly]

"More than 40 characters" kinda suggests that the leaked roster is all we have.

Well they're not gonna say 'more than 50' when we're not at 50 revealed yet, silly.

 

[Nintendoga]

So on the off chance Shulk's trailer was the last one we get before the Japanese launch, what has everyone's favorite newcomer trailer been?

Spoiler

Obviously Little Mac has the best one, but might as well give the others a chance

 

[A Link to the Past]

So I'd say that the most iconic characters they could add that aren't playable right now are

1. Basically anyone from Melee or Brawl that isn't in yet (except maybe Roy)
2. Ridley
3. Something to represent one of Nintendo's most popular new IPs, Rhythm Heaven
4. Toad
5. Dixie Kong
6. Cranky Kong
7. King K. Rool
8. Mew
9. Celebi
10. Deoxys
11. Togepi
12. Blaziken
13. Snorlax
14. Ganon
15. Impa
16. Tingle
17. Tetra
18. Lyn
19. Chrom
20. King Hippo
21. Isabelle
22. Tom Nook
23. K.K. Slider
24. Mr. Resetti
25. Excitebike
26. Slime
27. Dracula
28. Professor Layton

I might be stretching the definition of icon here or there :v

 

[Aaronrules380]

Doesn't prove or disprove anything, though. As I said, I'm not taking any side here, but I find the logic you use at best unstable and just wish to discourse on it.

The initial statement you made was referring the number of different people playing a game, thus more iconic.

Now, if DKC sold 9 millions, compared to Metroid Series 18 millions. Let's say for the sake of argument that every individual that bought DKC also bought DKC2, and DKC3 (which they didn't, from my brief Google surmise. They still sold really solid but nowhere near DKC).

It would still only be 9 millions different people "knowing" (if they remember him at all) who K.Rool is.

Now, if we say that somehow - due to a genre shift with Metroid Prime, let's say - the same situation doesn't apply to Metroid, people who were never interested in Metroid as a 2D sidescroller got to try it out. They "know" Ridley (if they even remember him at all). And that the people who bought Super Metroid were disgusted with the genre shift, and ended up never buying another game of the series, etc, etc. But they, too, know Ridley. And the guy who bought a Wii just for the new Team Ninja game based on Metroid, he too knows Ridley.

Well I could go on explaining but I think you can understand where I'm coming from. The scenario I propose is highly unlikely : it's not meant to be likely, either. But you simply cannot judge "Well, since DKC sold more than 9 millions clearly more people will know K.Rool!" because you have no way of knowing who these people are. There's some things that sales data cannot account for.

Are you seriously suggesting that the average metroid purchaser has played less than 2 games? Because that seems ludicrous

 

[Drago]

So on the off chance Shulk's trailer was the last one we get before the Japanese launch, what has everyone's favorite newcomer trailer been?

Spoiler

Obviously Little Mac has the best one, but might as well give the others a chance

Mega Man just for how hype inducing it was.

 

[SmithnCo]

So on the off chance Shulk's trailer was the last one we get before the Japanese launch, what has everyone's favorite newcomer trailer been?

Spoiler

Obviously Little Mac has the best one, but might as well give the others a chance

Robin/Lucina by a good margin.

 

[Toxi]

Also, I don't see why people keep talking about being iconic in Japan when Little Mac and the fucking Duck Hunt dog are playable.

Come to think of it, there weren't many super popular Japanese picks with few international fans outside of Dark Pit.

 

[ratcliffja]

Mega Man just for how hype inducing it was.

Same here. Little Mac's is probably the second best, though, due to Doc's commentary.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Well they're not gonna say 'more than 50' when we're not at 50 revealed yet, silly.

Are we at 40, though? Just curious.

Counting the Mii's separate it's exactly at 40, hm.

 

[BassForever]

Arguing Ridley is more iconic than Dixie Kong is ludicrous. She was the main character of a main series game, which is far more than most Smash characters can claim.

Whoops, I thought you were talking about Kid Icarus Uprising, not Donkey kong Country Returns.

Yeah, Donkey Kong's revival was an ENORMOUS success.

Ridley is a major villain in all but like 3 of the 11 Metroid games, Dixie appears in exactly 3 (5 with gb dk land) of the 14 donkey kong games

 

[Diprosalic]

Come to think of it, there weren't many super popular Japanese picks with few international fans outside of Dark Pit.

FE:A was pretty big and they got two newcomers.

edit: i think i misunderstood, never mind.

 

[Toxi]

Same here. Little Mac's is probably the second best, though, due to Doc's commentary.

I put it in first. It's just badass.

Fire Emblem trailer is also high up.

 

[Zomba13]

So on the off chance Shulk's trailer was the last one we get before the Japanese launch, what has everyone's favorite newcomer trailer been?

Spoiler

Obviously Little Mac has the best one, but might as well give the others a chance

Mega Man of coruse. Any other choice is factually incorrect.

 

[Gartooth]

My favorite trailer was either Mega Man or Robin/Lucina thanks to the huge hype from both. The latter might edge out the win since it revealed 3 characters and was completely unexpected thanks to Gematsu.

 

[Guesong]

Are you seriously suggesting that the average metroid purchaser has played less than 2 games? Because that seems ludicrous

I'm not suggesting anything. As I said, I have no interest in your ongoing debate, but I did show you a scenario where your supposition would be wrong, as unlikely as it sounds.

It's just that since we have no appropriate metric to measure the exact quantity of different person playing a game between DKC1-2-3-64, and a game of the Metroid series (does Ridley appears in all of them?), I personally find it unwise to use it as a basis for an argument.

 

[Makai]

Woah, in the trailer it looks like Falcon Kick goes nearly straight down

 

[Golnei]

FE:A was pretty big and they got two newcomers.

Though Awakening was fairly popular internationally, even with the late release. Its dramatic increase in sales when compared to the rest of the series is proof of that.

 

[Diprosalic]

Best one was Robin and Lucina by far.

1. Cap. Falcon
2. Everybody was sure that it will be one of the "Leak"
3. Lucina, Robin, WTF Chrome? Female Robin! so hype

Though Awakening was fairly popular internationally, even with the late release. Its dramatic increase in sales when compared to the rest of the series is proof of that.

yeah i misunderstood his sentence.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Ridley is a major villain in all but like 3 of the 11 Metroid games, Dixie appears in exactly 3 (5 with gb dk land) of the 14 donkey kong games

It's not exactly fair to exclude DKL, they're their own games. So Dixie's been playable in five games, one of which outsold the best-selling Metroid game by 2 million copies.

 

[Cse]

Are we at 40, though? Just curious.

Counting the Mii's separate it's exactly at 40, hm.

We're at 48.

49 if you count the Miis as one character.

 

[Kyzon]

<3you'll be with ridley soon<3

and also samus
cause her series is dead.

You left a clue, you'll be found.

 

[Diprosalic]

i wouldn't mind Dixie but she just adds too little, not hugely popular and aesthetically pretty similar to Diddy.

(of course you can say that about clones too but would you want her as a clone?)

 

[IntelliHeath]

It’s funny how Gematsu searing the Chorus Kids into everyone’s brains has made them a highly requested character, even for myself. Gematsu is what made me look into Rhythm Heaven as a viable option, and it really does deserve significant representation. It’s one of Nintendo’s more notable new IPs of the last decade.

• Three installments and an arcade port.
• The series has sold several million copies.
• Produced by Tsunku, a famous Japanese musician.

I’d definitely consider Rhythm Heaven “Smash worthy,” and the Chorus Kids seem like such a fun, unique concept.

…I’m sad now.

I was very interesting to see how the character would work, but I still think theym ight have a chance to be in Smash. If they didn't make it this time, then we would expect to see them coming back for Smash Next Gen.

 

[Spinosaurus]

We're at 48.

49 if you count the Miis as one character.

Oh I'm talking about officially revealed characters.

 

[Toxi]

Ridley is a major villain in all but like 3 of the 11 Metroid games, Dixie appears in exactly 3 (5 with gb dk land) of the 14 donkey kong games

There are way more than 14 Donkey Kong games, and Dixie was a main character of two of them and a playable sidekick in three more. She's also prominent in Donkey kong Country specifically, aka the series whose revival was an incredible success.

 

[Crocodile]

The 3DS version is largely already viewed as the inferior version - irrespective of how similar the two games are in terms of content, the 3DS version was always going to be viewed as the lesser version.

They could have easily implemented differing rosters without having the 3DS version contain fewer characters. For example, technically complex characters such as the Chorus Kids and Ice Climbers could have been exclusive to the Wii U, while, say, Dr. Mario and Lucas could have been exclusive to the 3DS version. Both could have had the same roster size, but slightly different characters. As a result, the 3DS version wouldn't have felt quantitatively inferior in terms of the roster size.

Such a move could have actually incentivized more customers to purchase both versions, similar to how certain Pokemon are exclusive to a given version.

Honestly, though, I don't really care that the Ice Climbers are cut - what vexes me is Sakurai's consistent employment of backwards logic.

I feel pretty confident that exclusive characters on EACH platform would piss off a lot of people. The Pokemon example doesn't really work because of trading and because the additional cost to but another version is $35 not $60-300 dollars

 

[Tanoooki]

Since alt costumes now = alt characters it would be awesome if Mario, Luigi, Toad and Peach got alt costumes of the cast of Doki Doki Panic

 

[OricWindstar]

Dixie vs Ridley debate...can't we just agree they're both notable instead of trying to attribute an immeasurable status of "more prominent" over one of them?

 

[georly]

Are we at 40, though? Just curious.

Counting the Mii's separate it's exactly at 40, hm.

I think some people are assuming that saying more than 40 means 'more than 40 but less than 50', but that may or may not be true.

Also, sorry pikma, I have no idea how to beat that guy

 

[Axass]

"SmashGAF, the only place where more than 40 means less than 50!"

I kid, but seriously don't be so quick to jump to conclusions.

I've heard dozen of times how there were no other newcomers aside from those of the Gematsu leak and how the Gematsu leak and the RosalinaX rumor lined up so perfectly. Some of you (one in particular ) were adamant about the E3 e-mail implying no other newcomers other than those listed.

After Robin was revealed some were so fixated with the leak to end up thinking all kind of weid happenings to justify Robin and Lucina as replacements for Chrom and Shulk, with still no other unleaked newcomers to come.

Now we have a new and more accurate leak and you're once again all jumping on the "it's confirmed, that's it, no more characters" bandwagon.

No matter what, it's still a leak. That could be final, but it could also not be. And don't tell me: "b-but everything points to that roster being final!"; I'd agree with you if I didn't hear these same words uttered for the Gematsu and RosalinaX leaks as well. It's two weeks, I think we can wait it out after a year, two months and 14 (!!!) threads.

 

[Aaronrules380]

I'm not suggesting anything. As I said, I have no interest in your ongoing debate, but I did show you a scenario where your supposition would be wrong, as unlikely as it sounds.

It's just that since we have no appropriate metric to measure the exact quantity of different person playing a game between DKC1-2-3-64, and a game of the Metroid series (does Ridley appears in all of them?), I personally find it unwise to use it as a basis for an argument.

I mean yeah, it's obviously possible. It's just astronomically unlikely.that on average a metroid player has only played 1 game. Especially when a ton of them are die hard fans who have played all of them. And I'm saying these things as someone who is far more into metroid than DKC

 

[Toxi]

i wouldn't mind Dixie but she just adds too little, not hugely popular and aesthetically pretty similar to Diddy.

(of course you can say that about clones too but would you want her as a clone?)

Make her a new and interesting moveset based somewhat on her existing abilities. I made a creative special move set for Metroid Prime's core form, a floating blue squid who literally has two attacks in its entire boss battle. If I can do that, Sakurai can do something with Dixie Kong.

Dixie vs Ridley debate...can't we just agree they're both notable instead of trying to attribute an immeasurable status of "more prominent" over one of them?

Yes.

 

[BassForever]

There are way more than 14 Donkey Kong games, and Dixie was a main character of two of them and a playable sidekick in three more.

That further proves my point that Dixie is in less games by comparison in her franchise compared to Ridley in his. Saying Ridley shouldn't be in Smash is like saying Ganondorf shouldn't be in Smash he shouldn't if he's just going to keep being a Falcon clone. I'm not saying Dixie shouldn't, but to say she's more iconic is silly as she's been in way less game then Ridley (5 vs 7) vs the number of games each is not in (Dixie has not been in over a dozen DK games, Ridley has only missed 3 Metroid games) it's clear who the bigger character is.

 

[Code_Link]

Yes we knew.....but is this email from Nintendo or Gamestore? We all know the Downloadable version will be available on the eshop on midnight release. I really should check with my gamestop too see if they will have midnight launch.

Nintendo sent it, so it must mean the release for the download.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I think some people are assuming that saying more than 40 means 'more than 40 but less than 50', but that may or may not be true.

Oh definitely. Though consider everything I'd rather just lower my expectations in case I don't end up getting disappointed. If by chance there are more playable character then I'd be more than glad to eat crow.

 

[ExtremeDev]

One of my friends had a great idea. What if whenever Smash DLC happens, it's sold in game by Rusty?

A boy can dream, can't he...

 

[Toxi]

On the topic of DK and Metroid, can we at least agree that only Jungle Japes and Brinstar on the 3DS is criminal?

 

[georly]

Oh definitely. Though consider everything I'd rather just lower my expectations in case I don't end up being disappointing. If by chance there are more playable character then I'd be more than glad to eat crow.

I've always had low expectations for smash 4, which has always helped... buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut... I kinda accepted that Ice climbers were a given from day 1.

Every day that draws nearer... and they're still not announced... makes me worry.

I'm still holding out hope, I have to be optimistic. "less than 50" means probably no ice climbers, and i'm not willing to accept that.

 

[Ceravic]

Thanks for the guys who answered me pages ago!

Is it a reference to something in the game?

I think it's kind of a double entendre. Shulk says that in Xenoblade when you get in a battle with a stronger enemy, but I also think it is a tongue-in-cheek nod to the leak.