Is Mainstream Hatred Of Anime Growing?
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Crash Station
Member
One Punch Man is manga. That's a gigantic medium compared to anime, which isn't totally small either. Saying something like "all anime is fanservice" is a lot more reasonable than saying the same about manga, which is as varied as every other mainstream medium (possibly even moreso).
Aaron-Lagann
Banned
I feel both sides have gotten bigger. I more casually run into people who like anime, as I had a ten minute conversation with cashier at a story because of my Oreimo wallet, but also the people who really don't like anime have gotten way more fervent about the thing they don't like, probably because of the people who do like it being seen as less weird.
Videogames went through this too, though to a lesser extent in my experience, as something becomes more common and is seen outside of the small niche area is previously was, it's going to get attacked a lot. I've seen plenty of people wearing Attack on Titan shirts around town, I also saw an old man wearing a Kill la Kill shirt. So while anime isn't necessarily becoming any more popular than it used to be, in my experience it's becoming less weird to like it.
Videogames went through this too, though to a lesser extent in my experience, as something becomes more common and is seen outside of the small niche area is previously was, it's going to get attacked a lot. I've seen plenty of people wearing Attack on Titan shirts around town, I also saw an old man wearing a Kill la Kill shirt. So while anime isn't necessarily becoming any more popular than it used to be, in my experience it's becoming less weird to like it.
Sure: Dan.
MikeOfTheLivingDead
Grapetastic!
western anime fans ruined anime in the west. If you go back to the earliest localizations there was an effort made to rework the content for western audiences so the stories made sense. They'd go so far as to alter plots, dialogue, and even characters names to appeal to western audiences.
Somewhere along the way this noisy hardcore group of japanophiles in the west started whining about the translations not being true to the source and we got to this point where even professional English dubs are full of awkward ham fisted dialogue, untranslated Japanese words, and smatterings of Japanese honorifics and Japanese character names. It doesn't help that many of the English voice actors are also quite terrible actors.
A lot of modern anime just flat out sucks, but even the stuff that has potential in the west has been ruined by the constant whining of the western hardcore fan base. I tried to watch Attack on Titan recently. It looks really awesome, but the fucking j-pop, the horrible dialogue and terrible voice acting ruins it for me. If some brave soul came forward and got a hold of Attack on Titan or something similar and put some effort into re-packaging it for the type of audience that goes to super-hero movies via editing, re-writes, and hiring some talent who can act, they would have a small hit and reach a much broader fan base.
Somewhere along the way this noisy hardcore group of japanophiles in the west started whining about the translations not being true to the source and we got to this point where even professional English dubs are full of awkward ham fisted dialogue, untranslated Japanese words, and smatterings of Japanese honorifics and Japanese character names. It doesn't help that many of the English voice actors are also quite terrible actors.
A lot of modern anime just flat out sucks, but even the stuff that has potential in the west has been ruined by the constant whining of the western hardcore fan base. I tried to watch Attack on Titan recently. It looks really awesome, but the fucking j-pop, the horrible dialogue and terrible voice acting ruins it for me. If some brave soul came forward and got a hold of Attack on Titan or something similar and put some effort into re-packaging it for the type of audience that goes to super-hero movies via editing, re-writes, and hiring some talent who can act, they would have a small hit and reach a much broader fan base.
I love how certain indie devs and journalists accuse the entire gamer community for being ignorant and then proceed to change their Twitter avatar to anime stuff to mock them.
That being said, I've started watching animes last year again because of Attack On Titan and then discovered more and more shows - some of which are so incredible they don't need to hide behind many critically acclaimed high-budget US TV shows.
I know Attack On Titan is not liked very much by anime-diehard fans but those people need to understand that it brought a lot of people back or into anime; it's a real eye-opener. I felt like a douchebag after discovering more anime that has been out for years yet ignored by me because I had the 'anti anime' stigma as well because of the big anime boom that happened in the west and its overload of mediocre to crap anime.
Animes are entertaining. Animes are inspiring. Animes are creative like almost no other medium. Seriously, some animes have such fucking incredible designs, art and animation that blows my mind.
The biggest problem that current anime has is the Otaku culture and it's non-stop fanservice bullshit. I know that these people pay the most for the stuff but they are also the reason why many people think anime are for weirdos and are full of underage girls being drawn with huge eyes and questionable poses. They single-handedly ruined the reputation of the medium because of that stuff.
I hope anime creators will be courageous in the future and keep pushing that good non-loli-moe stuff more. I want more animes like Monster, Hunter X Hunter, Attack On Titan, Evangelion and so on.
Animes are great if you give them a chance. Don't be ignorant like me in the past. Now excuse me, I need to watch some episodes of the fantastic Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood.
That being said, I've started watching animes last year again because of Attack On Titan and then discovered more and more shows - some of which are so incredible they don't need to hide behind many critically acclaimed high-budget US TV shows.
I know Attack On Titan is not liked very much by anime-diehard fans but those people need to understand that it brought a lot of people back or into anime; it's a real eye-opener. I felt like a douchebag after discovering more anime that has been out for years yet ignored by me because I had the 'anti anime' stigma as well because of the big anime boom that happened in the west and its overload of mediocre to crap anime.
Animes are entertaining. Animes are inspiring. Animes are creative like almost no other medium. Seriously, some animes have such fucking incredible designs, art and animation that blows my mind.
The biggest problem that current anime has is the Otaku culture and it's non-stop fanservice bullshit. I know that these people pay the most for the stuff but they are also the reason why many people think anime are for weirdos and are full of underage girls being drawn with huge eyes and questionable poses. They single-handedly ruined the reputation of the medium because of that stuff.
I hope anime creators will be courageous in the future and keep pushing that good non-loli-moe stuff more. I want more animes like Monster, Hunter X Hunter, Attack On Titan, Evangelion and so on.
Animes are great if you give them a chance. Don't be ignorant like me in the past. Now excuse me, I need to watch some episodes of the fantastic Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood.
You do realize that Giant Bomb is nowhere near "mainstream opinion"? They are literally a bunch of nerds that talk about video games.
Most people have no idea what anime even is nor have actually sat down and watched one. Among people actually exposed to it, there is a common trend of thinking recent anime is of low quality. Perhaps this is biased due to the fact that when getting into a medium for the first time, of course you are more exposed to the cream of the crop. It would be like never watching a movie, watching everything in the Criterion catalog, then dismissing all modern movies as garbage. Though there have been many prominent directors and other people involved in anime who have lamented over the shifting tone and focus in modern anime.
Most people have no idea what anime even is nor have actually sat down and watched one. Among people actually exposed to it, there is a common trend of thinking recent anime is of low quality. Perhaps this is biased due to the fact that when getting into a medium for the first time, of course you are more exposed to the cream of the crop. It would be like never watching a movie, watching everything in the Criterion catalog, then dismissing all modern movies as garbage. Though there have been many prominent directors and other people involved in anime who have lamented over the shifting tone and focus in modern anime.
I actually have been wanting to listen to an anime-centric podcast that shared the standards of GB and 8-4 Play. Are these two the most recommended?
Aaron-Lagann
Banned
I'd say they're actually pretty niche in terms of games coverage in the eye of the public. IGN is probably the closest to a "Mainstream" and they've actually been doing some anime coverage recently. It's terrible and represents the most common of opinions, but it's cool seeing some coverage.
Z..
Member
That's fine. Each to his own. Although I'm not sure that is a serious post, lol.
I like both styles and respect them equally. I'm just frustrated there are so few in the anime community who can actually fully appreciate just how good some of the stuff we have is. Essentially, as far as anime's concerned, I feel lonely and frustrated. The existing community does not understand my favourite part of the industry nor do I have any forum for proper discussion of said part.
I still get to enjoy talking about great stuff like Space Brothers or whatever I'm watching at the time, but it's so frustrating to see the community at large can't understand Monster's Hitchcockian tones and narrative (as another example).
Aaron-Lagann
Banned
Also, this is a thing L'Oreal sells in big box retailers.
So there's at least a growing public awareness that manga/anime are things.
So there's at least a growing public awareness that manga/anime are things.
Jex
Member
Harmony Gold viral marketer? No, I won't back your shitty Robotech Kickstarters.
I assume that this is a parody post because Attack on Titan is probably the most popular anime in years.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Fudgepuppy
Banned
I tried getting into anime again, for the fourth time. Watched 9 episodes of Attack on Titan. I was very much reminded why I stopped watching.
Too much exposition, characters acting like charicatures, cheap visual style, padding out of hell, repetition etc.
I know there are good animes out there, but the medium as it is, has inherently very elements to it that just don't work for certain markets.
I like subtletly, stories with efficiancy etc. Most animes I've seen has none of these.
Too much exposition, characters acting like charicatures, cheap visual style, padding out of hell, repetition etc.
I know there are good animes out there, but the medium as it is, has inherently very elements to it that just don't work for certain markets.
I like subtletly, stories with efficiancy etc. Most animes I've seen has none of these.
They are both not anime-centric, but since all of the people in these podcasts have Vita's or are fans of shows like Fullmetal Alchemist the discussions often wander towards those topics.
I can definitely recommend both, yeah.
May not have the mainstream recognition of Attack on Titan, but it sure as heck set the new standard for storytelling, visuals and characterization in the Anime medium.
If you're staring at that image with utter confusion, I can assure you I am being completely serious, and that you should watch it.
Maybe I'm in too deep, but Madoka is neither particularly obscure nor particularly revolutionary. Urobuchi's gonna Urobuchi.
Also jumping on the "Aku no Hana is god-tier" bandwagon here, ANH changed my life
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
firehawk12
Subete no aware
It's worse for anime because there was a literal gateway to the genre/medium by virtual of the VHS fansub barrier and licensors. You only got what people could sell, so people chose the best of the best.
Imagine if you only watched movies only released by Criterion or on AFI's Best Of lists and you never heard of things like Transformers or Godzilla. You'd think that every single movie released was the best thing ever and that there was no such thing as a bad movie.
Criterion released Godzilla though. I mean, the first film is a pretty big landmark. And let's not pretend that there isn't a wide breadth of films within the Criterion collection. It's easy to see why someone who really likes Bottlerocket wouldn't scratch their head at the Qatsi trilogy.
Secret Fawful
Member
It's not a style. It's a medium. You of all people should understand that.
May not have the mainstream recognition of Attack on Titan, but it sure as heck set the new standard for storytelling, visuals and characterization in the Anime medium.
If you're staring at that image with utter confusion, I can assure you I am being completely serious, and that you should watch it.
But it kind of does?
Wiktor
Member
No. I want good story. You might talk all you want about symbolism and context, but the fact is that there barely is any story in GiTS movie. GITS is a visual spectacle, full of beautiful symbolism, but it also has very little story and completely empty characters.
And I really dislike the idea anything with good plot or interesting characters who actually do stuff is shallow and easy. If all I would need from a movie or a tv series is atmosphere and symbolism I would rather watch a music video.
Alex
Member
Attack on Titan did some good, it was a fun, respectable show that was free of objectification and other oddness, it was something comfortable to recommend to a general public... Then you have other limelight suggestion titles like Kill la Kill and Sword Art Online that certainly further unraveled things for some people :lol
There are still a fair few good shows, though, I've watched more this year than the last five combined, it's just become a fair amount of work to pick them out of the mess and it's a bit of a wall to some people, including me as of late.
What really doesn't help is the community and culture of the medium is really awful in most spots nowadays. I couldn't hope to come on here and discuss things like we used to prior to the slow erosion things have undergone. These discussion threads show there are still good, level headed people though and they're very much appreciated as I get a lot from the back and forth and suggestions.
I will never understand seeing these posts on video game forums of all things.
plasmawave
Banned
Movies like Spykids and Jack and Jill, amiright?
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
"All anime are horrible except the ones that aren't horrible" feels more accurate than "all anime are great except the ones that are horrible".
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=104312757&postcount=96
Stuff like that doesn't help.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=104312757&postcount=96
Stuff like that doesn't help.
Jex
Member
Wiktor
Member
Well...movies are low quality entertainment for teenagers. Why would you spend your time watching Transformers or Avengers when there are thousands of classic books you could be consuming. I don't get it an I never will but people like what they like.
Aaron-Lagann
Banned
Why bother with entertainment? Reading books, watching movies, that shit isn't putting food on your table! Go to work! You want to relax? Don't. Just go work more. That relaxation is wasted time for idiots.
Baccano! is The Good Shit (tm) and I highly recommend it.
Absolutely loved this one but for some reason I totally forgot about it!
time to re-watch it again.
It's like me grandpappy used to say: "why bother relaxin' when you could be workin'"
wsoxfan1214
Banned
Probably and it's ridiculous, even as someone who doesn't watch it.
Wiktor
Member
To me Brain Base is the best anime studio of recent couple years. Most of the stuff they make is high quality and they have big variety of styles, being able to recreate the atmosphere of original work, unlike something like SHAFT, which overwriters the style of the source materiel.
You might be right in thinking it's hypocritical of me to say that then go and play Mario. Its how I feel though, anime just seems like mindless shows about mechs and power levels. I've never judged people for liking it beyond thinking they have bad taste.
Anime is about mechs and power levels in the same way video games are about military shooters.
Aaron-Lagann
Banned
That's... Not representative of the entire medium. There's plenty of mech power level dumbness that can be great, but there's also stuff like Monster that has none of that.
plasmawave
Banned
Speaking of mechs, another great one is Big O.
Brain's Base was good up until a couple of years ago, then they started only making poop.
The point is that you are generalizing hard as fuck right now, which is what people who state that ALL games are murder simulators are doing.
There are tons of anime out there without power levels or mecha.
Aaron-Lagann
Banned
I would say the majority don't. That's pretty much a single genre. It's like saying most movies are Transformers.
SuperChoco
Member
As someone who doesn't really care about anime, I think that a few problems it faces are that it's self inclusive, has a lot of tropes, and the artstyle can be homogenous at times. Not all anime is like that of course, I like the Miyazaki films, Gurren Lagann, and Kill La Kill, but anime can be overwhelming in that there are a lot of different anime that can all be different things. If someone was randomly combing through anime, that person would most likely not be satisfied with what they're watching because of the problems listed above.
Z..
Member
I'm not saying they're shallow and easy, I'm saying you can't look past that format. I love both formats, just as much a sucker for Nolan as I am for Eisenstein. Or even non-narrative stuff by Fricke. I love audiovisual fiction in all it's shapes and sizes.
But, again... you don't get GitS. You think you do, but you just don't. At all.
Wanna settle this? Here's how we do that: you're gonna watch Stalker (1979) and explain to me why it's widely considered one of the best movies of all time (even though from your initial perception it won't be as you'll think there's very little story and empty characters because the narrative isn't easy to penetrate, but I'm begging you to look past your present stigma). Like you said, you want a good story, so about 70% of auteur cinema is out, but Stalker should keep you at least partially invested.
It's always fun when people hate something they can't yet understand. I hope you'll take this post seriously, I'm not hating, I genuinely want to show you how to properly see this other side.
(Yes, I chose a movie with a videogame based on it to make it the barrier of entry easier and no, it wasn't me being condescending, it's an incredibly good and demanding movie.)
Edit: oh yeah, In return, I'll rewatch GitS and give you my analysis of the story and the characters, which you seem to think are lacking. ^^
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