Yes, but you might want to just set aside your agenda for a second and try and impartially interview the guy. At least as good professional advice, maybe keep the asshole bit in your back pocket as a private opinion since it kind of undermines your impartiality.
Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos
- Thread starter papersleeves
- Start date
- Status
Yes, but you might want to just set aside your agenda for a second and try and impartially interview the guy. At least as good professional advice, maybe keep the asshole bit in your back pocket as a private opinion since it kind of undermines your impartiality.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
How do you respond to this article?
http://therottingcartridge.wordpress.com/2012/02/22/whats-wrong-with-the-igf/
Seems pretty damning to pay to get into a contest where the judges assigned to you don't install the game.
It's great that you guys are striving to improve, but that still doesn't fixed all the corruption that happened at the last IGF. Stuff like judges not even actively playing the games is inexcusable.
Wolves Evolve
Member
Well the process is entirely public - it is all out there in the open and always has been. You install games, make sure they work, follow any special instructions, say whether you played it, whether it works, and then whether you think it excels in any of the categories. There's also a place for discussion.
Wow, so someone that wants to talk about a group of people is automatically an asshole? That post actually leads me to the conclusion that you are the one with nothing worthwhile to say.
Would someone please inform me who this rjcc person is? I want to make sure I never visit any site that employs him/her as a journalist.
Thanks for the professional advice, where have you been published and who have you interviewed?
Having an opinion, and stating it publicly != setting an agenda.
bishopcruz
Member
Yeah. The biggest issue in these debates is honestly, treating the other side as people, having at least a shred of empathy. Do all of them "deserve" it, probably not, but if you get where people are coming from, there is a chance that you can get through to them. At the very least, you won't come off as being as vitriolic as them if someone is either listening to, or reading your debate.
But that is what a lot of debate has turned into, it's essentially mental masturbation from one side or another so they can feel superior to those they disagree with.
"SJW" is like a gender-neutral form of "Feminazi" from the 90s. Initially it was coined to refer to a small group of feminist activists that Limbaugh et al felt were too extreme in their support of abortion rights, to the point where (hyperbolically, in Rush's mind) they were really calling for some sort of genocide / etc. But then it just came to mean any lady who protested unequal pay or treatment, etc. When I first started seeing the term SJW it seemed more like a playful jab at people who took social rights issues too seriously--a light poke at literal extremists--but it's really turned into a way of immediately dismissing huge swaths of people (ironically by those who often argue that blanket statements or dismissals when it comes to takes on social issues are a grave intellectual failing) for no reason other than they actually care about issues you don't. It's not a particularly helpful term, and like for Feminazi (which not even Limbaugh appears to use now) most people are going to dismiss you as a crank for using it.
Wolves Evolve
Member
Sure. That sucks. They have a right to be angry. There's hundreds of judges and hundreds of games and the more they let in to judge, the worse the judging quality gets but each year, more games get entered. So each year they make sure the games with no reviews are prioritised. I played a game on the last day with no reviews and I made sure three others did the same. But the core problem is volume. They work each year to fix it, and in the cases of games with few or crap reviews, it is the priority for the next year.
Just to put it out there, one of my heroes in this whole #GamerGate affair, is Christina H. Sommers, a self-described equity feminist who has spoken out against the flagrant accusations of misogyny. Her twitter responses thus far have been completely on point.
Name one of that has demonstrated contempt for or prejudice against women. Everything is a conspiracy until it's a scandal.
Name one of that has demonstrated contempt for or prejudice against women. Everything is a conspiracy until it's a scandal.
Paraphrase: Anyone mentioning SJW is worthless and an asshole. Can't wait to get this guy on record. If he's interested tell him to hit me up.
I'll just drop it, but that was basically what you said. We're just repeating ourselves here. I don't think that's a very good mindset going into an interview. Especially because the guy specifically said he's already scared to talk. Instead of making this a resume contest, I'd rather just debate the ideas presented. I think I offered some sound advice.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
Sexism and gender issues in the atheist/skeptical community is a big problem too. Just because people profess to be rationalists obsessed with logic or science does not mean they actually are or that they apply the same rigor to all parts of their life. If I recall correctly, Thunderfoot got taken down by the very same rationalist/logical/scientific community he belonged to for his actions and behaviors regarding discussion about sexual harassment at their conferences. The rational-wiki article on him is pretty negative and they even have a page dedicated to dismantling his arguments against Sarkeesian. I trust his fellow rationalists to recognize problematic behavior in their own members.
He made a joke about Dongles. About bloody Dongles. And he got fired for it after a witchhunt on Twitter. The women who did this is not a victim.
I would never call another person worthless, and afaik, I haven't.
I don't think discussing sexism with someone who SJW is a label worth applying is worth my time -- I already know what they're going to say, and if I didn't, I could go to your local MRA forum and find out. Why talk to someone just to hear the same list of already debunked talking points that are publicly available? This is nonsense.
But if he'd like to talk about his experiences and the current climate of the industry, I'd love to hear those statements and publish them.
EmCeeGramr
Member
She was harassed, threatened, and her website DDOSed. Even if her way of reporting the incident was wrong (and she lost her job over it, which is oddly glossed over), she is a victim here as well. And framing the incident as "lynchmobs" and "1984" is profoundly dishonest.
CoolioThane
Banned
I'm finding this whole #GamerGate thing very worrying. A lot of the 'gamers' are being a lot more sensible and level-headed than those that are against them. I've seen a lot more attacking gamers than any gamers attacking others.
I think it might come from a group not understanding where the hashtag comes from; claiming it's to do with 'white males not wanting women in their games' which is totally false.
I think it might come from a group not understanding where the hashtag comes from; claiming it's to do with 'white males not wanting women in their games' which is totally false.
Gormless Noodle
Member
I would like to know this as well actually. I hope someone can enlighten me.
I think this is a pretty good explanation on what #GamerGate is about for those interested.
1. I never claimed to agree with everything she has said ever said.
2. People are free to hold unpopular views; that doesn't make everything they say invalid.
As far as #GamerGate goes, she has been on point, in my opinion.
1. I never claimed to agree with everything she has said ever said.
2. People are free to hold unpopular views; that doesn't make everything they say invalid.
As far as #GamerGate goes, she has been on point, in my opinion.
Wolves Evolve
Member
She is a Breitbart reporter. Breitbart is perhaps the most conspiracy-laden right wing site outside of Stormfront and Infowars. It is those sites' respectable face on a number of issues. I urge you to chiggedy-check yourself. They are a joke, and she is exploiting gamers' fear and isolation as a parlour trick.
His argument isnt that only one is a victim, or that only the guy is the victim of this stuff, but that everyone can be a victim, and that people who are arguing against gamers should look at themselves in the mirror before coming to judgement of others.
I think the one thing that needs to be pushed is that both sides need to change. "sjws" need to stop harassing, doxxing, and making threats against people who disagree with them and "manchildren gamers" need to stop harassing, doxxing, and making threats against those who disagree with them.
That's why it was incredibly asinine with what gamergate is. Both sides are clearly flawed in many ways, and the reason why most focus is on the "sjw" side is because most gaming journalists side with that notion of thinking.
I read the first part and somewhat agreed, then saw it was one of those "click on the next button to see the next part" and closed immediately.
Speaking of terrible games journalism, can we also stop with clickbait shit like this?
Gormless Noodle
Member
Are you serious? This was literally one page ago. What site do you work for? I am really dying to know.
EmCeeGramr
Member
I think your interpretation of his words is extremely charitable.
That's a nice stretch there, you should be proud of being so flexible. What I said about people who use the term is clear and speaks for itself.
This is a single 9 year plan for Brakke to pat himself on the back
If I managed to pull that long a con, I would absolutely pat myself on the back.
What she said of the first and third tweets makes sense, though your inference of the latter is interesting. The issue of "rape culture" is it infers it is exclusively men who partake in it, and that falls into the falsehood of assuming men can not be raped unless it's by another man, so in that sense she's right on point by calling the term sexist; it infers a very specific stereotype. The third tweet is just common sense: she is not blaming anybody, but telling people to be sensible with their alcohol consumption, something most people do typically fail to do. Getting drunk risks a lot of bad things happening, and I sincerely doubt she's trying to wave about non-consensual sexual activity.
I cannot speak of the second tweet as I don't know much of that website, though quite a chunk of people here are not taking such a place glowingly.
It did...which is why you were just called out on it. Are you for real? What did he stretch?
I believe he works for Engadget, seeing as there is a Twitter @ name that's the same as his GAF name.
Yeah, it sure is!
10 - it's not about misogyny, never mind that this entire thing spun out of a crusade against Zoe Quinn for using her feminine wiles to get positive reviews
9 - Quinn and Sarkeesian are using death threats to get attention and "play victim", in contrast to the noble Breitbart writer
8 - GamerGate isn't just straight white males. It's diverse because we say so, and can point to a woman who supports it! (See my post re Sommers above.)
7 - #NotAllGamers send death threats. This isn't a joke.
4 - 4chan's donations to Fine Young Capitalists prove that they aren't really misogynists, never mind that those donations were largely in an effort to improve their image
1 - Oh, man, Gone Home bashing:
That's not tired at all. Then the author claims that those who don't like the game are deemed sexist or homophobic by the press, whereas those liked it must have only done so to advance their Lesbian Feminist Agenda. But it's the press who are the real bigots. Obviously.
Might as well just drop it. We're all anonymous, and if he wants to keep that to him or herself, they have the right. The ideas discussed are the more important part.
i'll let him/her decide whether or not that is true, I could be wrong, but people take in different meanings from the same speech. It's up to him to make that clear.
So you're admitting it's true #Brakkegate
Like many labels I usually see it in response not to a specific other person but to wide swaths of people (like "Tumblr Feminists" appears to include people not actually on Tumblr). However when I do see it in response to a specific person it's never (lately) been justified. Recently, the only person I could have seen it being used to describe and I'd only grimace vs actually roll my eyes and mentally tune-out would have been Suey Park. It's just not useful or descriptive.
The idea is that hilariously, your words are now being attributed to me as though I said them. You guys should stick with that, it's a better strategy than actually thinking about why what he said was wrong.
How common do you think female rape of a man is, versus the reverse?
#GamerGate is a shitshow on Twitter. I've been nothing but vitriolic for people who express their extremism on a website that only allows you to add your voice at 140 characters per post. It inevitably will lead to the person who is the most extreme getting the largest following and encouraging their followers and enemies to be just as extreme in response.
As for #GamerGate's humble beginnings... I thought it started from the Zoe Quinn nontroversy? When people didn't get traction against her for sleeping with a few people who had no influence on Depression Quest they took to a wider audience with accusations of some mysterious cabal of indie developers controlling the vetting process of independent games from beginning to end.
Much like Fox News, these people present accusations of wrong-doing that sound appealing to a certain crowd but do very little to back it up. There's little sprinkles of truth that they build a hail storm of bullshit out of and are expected to be taken seriously by a press that they are attacking. Which brings me to the video we're discussing from ShortFatOtaku.
The FIRST dialog said in the video is "sex for favors" with pictures of Zoe Quinn.
The legitimacy of this video is gone. Zoe Quinn did not have sex for increased visibility of her game. That accusation has not be backed up with any evidence and is, in fact, ludicrous because of the timeline. So it's set up from the beginning to fail. Anything afterwards is shrouded in the ORIGINAL reason to #GamerGate and that's to slut shame Zoe Quinn. It's, of course, followed by pictures of Phil Fish and racy pictures of Zoe Quinn and then ends with "Created by Kotaku's Credibility and Zoe's vagina".
So the creator of this video literally thinks that Zoe Quinn's vagina is the source of corruption and cover-ups in the video game journalistic world... or they're using Jessie Ventura's terrible show to poke a bit of fun at the conspiracy theorists in #GamerGate? It's possible that they could defend it that way. Unfortunately that defense doesn't hold water because it's presented with zero ironic subtext. It's clearly a serious intro done in a funny way so that ShortFatOtaku could say "LOL ITS A JOKE".
It's not a joke. It's slut shaming and is the reason why #GamerGate has been poisoned from the beginning.
From there is goes into a long line of 'We knows' about Zoe Quinn and Legobutts that we actually DON'T know. Again, typical Fox News style "journalism" that picks out bits of truth to cover their real agenda with.
Petitions and open letters aren't going to stop people from being assholes but they are going to present a united front against them. Fuck the assholes who're specifically targeting a few women for their own psychopathic thrills. We can both agree.
But. The asshole's language is shared by ShortFatOtaku. Accusing Quinn of trading sex for favors without any proof or shred of credibility lumps him in with those assholes. There's real problems with the IGF that can can be openly talked about but for some people the open and transparent nature of that process isn't enough. The extreme undercurrent of any hashtag movement has driven people to accuse when none is needed. This includes the wispy accusations against Legobutts.
So you aren't even willing to accept that a journo blog is out there doing the right thing?
Then what do you want? What's the goal? Kotaku has led the charge for a new type of openness and you respond by saying it's not enough? What more could they do? Accuse Zoe Quinn of sex for favors?
Oh, and don't get me started with people propping up the legitimate concerns of normal folks as if it PROVES that the movement isn't rooted in rotten soil.
"Look! It's a woman! She's with us! That proves that Zoe Quinn is a giant fucking slut!"
I'm lost. Just thought I was showing you the courtesy of not being hounded about your real name and job location. Because I don't think you need to tell anyone if you don't want to. My bad I guess.
Gormless Noodle
Member
A stretch....I see. Well alright, we're done.
Fair enough. I merely wished to know the employer so I can avoid them, but you are correct.
My name and job location are super easy to find, ignoring certain people has more to do w/ my overall policy of not engaging assholes and generally not posting links to my site on NeoGAF
I never argued anything regarding the frequency of rapes where men or women are the victim, so I really have no idea what you're getting at by raising an argument for comparison. All I said was by running with the term "rape culture" you paint rape done only by men, and this is factually untrue. The problem with many social terms is we use them to make one size fits all assumptions, and I think many of those terms have such holes and shouldn't be used because of that reality. It matters little what the ratio is when such a term paints it in an exclusive manner to apply to one and only one archetype, as the multiplicity of factors all but guarantees that it cannot be factually true.
EmCeeGramr
Member
I have literally never heard "rape culture" used to say that only men are capable of being rapists.
I've been reading through #GamerGate on twitter and I'm finding it really difficult to take any of these complaints levelled at journalists seriously. Most tweets are either inane drivel or ridiculous conspiracy theories.
I find it funny that ultimately this is all about whether review scores can be trusted. It's the most vapid and unimportant controversy I've ever heard of.
I find it funny that ultimately this is all about whether review scores can be trusted. It's the most vapid and unimportant controversy I've ever heard of.
Ive heard it from some radfems before, but I don't think that's the assumption when most feminists say it.
your first problem is looking to twitter to find any type of good social commentary. That's like saying "yeah, there were these youtube comments that I saw that were really stupid"
and while review scores are an issue to some, especially with the history of Gerstamn and such, it's not the only thing gamergate is about.
10 - An attack on Zoe Quinn for reprehensible behaviour is not an attack on her gender. It's that kind of thinking that has led to broad-brushing generalisations of gamers. We're all bigots and misogynists for having a problem with her action? Come now.
9 - I was ambivalent about this point, I'll admit. Death threats may be common but should never be trivialised.
8 - It's diverse because gamers are diverse and you are wilfully ignorant if you think it's only white, straight males that are outraged.
7 - It's not a joke since that petition came out addressing all gamers as a whole to stop sending death threats, when that is the doing of a minority.
4 - Your first mistake is to assume they're misogynists in the first place.
1 - Did you read his entire critique and what it has to do with #GamerGate?
In retrospect it's not the best article I could have linked (namely because it has "click for the next page!" feature), but it touches on a lot of points I believe are overlooked.
It really doesn't (you mean imply, not infer); at least not a charitable reading of the idea, which suggests that many of the ways we deal with a variety of issues in society lead to a normalization of rape in our culture, including: cheering for prison rape, glamorizing young boys having sex with teachers, claiming men think about sex "every 7 seconds," questioning the masculinity of male victims of assault, etc. I mean, being a Libertarian I'm somewhat sympathetic, but really conservatives just don't do feminism well; they treat it as something to concern troll more than something they can adapt to their own needs. This is why they usually fall into faux egalitarianism, which really means "let's not actually do anything."
RockTurtle
Member
Yes. Calling journalists "closet bigots" in a segment with implied contempt for socially-conscious games... is... something, alright.
Off-topic GAF recognizes that the patriarchy is the number one reason why male rape is less reported but just as if not more so prevalent.really? you should stop by off-topic gaf more often
Among other reasons of course.
If it's so prevalent, then I'm sure you'll be able to provide some examples.really? you should stop by off-topic gaf more often
- Status