Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 14: Snake... had a hard life

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Mik317 said:
Pit get a few new moves and a different recovery move is going to do good things for him. He felt a little off in brawl (I also hated his voice...so I couldn't play him for long)
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She did the best she could(lol) but yeah uprising pit and dark pit are vastly superior.
 
A Link to the Snitch said:
Imagine a Toon Link moveset like this

B: Fire Arrows
Side B: Fire Rod
Up B: Deku Leaf
Down B: Gust Jar
Final Smash: Hurricane Slash
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If it incorporated the Skull Hammer as a smash attack, it'd be close to perfect. Though even with his current status as a clone in SSB4, hopefully we can get the Fire Arrows and Hurricane Slash as custom moves for his arrows and spin attack.
 
I wish de-cloning clones from the previous games was a priority.

In case that wasn't clear with Brawl, Smash 4 proves that it will never happen =/
 
What if all DLC for early Smash was just adding Lucas, Wolf, and Ice Climbers back in, but also adding in new movesets for characters (without removing the old ones)?

So we'd have like

Ganondorf
Ganondorf 2 or Ganon or Toon Ganondorf

Wario
Classic Wario

Toon Link
WW/Minish Link

With better titles o' course
 
Characters I've never enjoyed using in OG Brawl:

Ness
Ice Climbers
Sonic
Zelda/Sheik
Link
Pit

Most of them I thought were either bad or were too awkward to control for me. Sonic, Link, and Pit are some of my Project M favorites, and I'm excited to try Smash 4 Pit.
 
Anth0ny said:
I wish de-cloning clones from the previous games was a priority.

In case that wasn't clear with Brawl, Smash 4 proves that it will never happen =/
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Nice as it would be...aside from Dr. Mario and Ganondorf, for the most part it at least makes sense that the clones share similar movesets to their predecessors. They often share similar abilities within their source games. I won't kill them for having Lucina play like Marth, or in the brawl days having Lucas and Ness be similar.

'Dorf...well in my world I'd have big blue pig Ganon with his trident instead, but it seems like Ganondorf (or at least that appearance) has taken over as the main "form" for him, but I also won't exactly cry over the loss of another sword-fighting character
except for an iai-strike Takamaru.

...And then Dr. Mario is just whatever.
 
Beelzebufo said:
Most of them I thought were either bad or were too awkward to control for me. Sonic, Link, and Pit are some of my Project M favorites, and I'm excited to try Smash 4 Pit.
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Link is a beast in Project Melee, he had some strong points in brawl, but his weakness get pretty obvious as soon as he face hightiers and above, specially Falco, damn bird
 
A Link to the Snitch said:
What if all DLC for early Smash was just adding Lucas, Wolf, and Ice Climbers back in, but also adding in new movesets for characters (without removing the old ones)?

So we'd have like

Ganondorf
Ganondorf 2 or Ganon or Toon Ganondorf

Wario
Classic Wario

Toon Link
WW/Minish Link

With better titles o' course
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Ganondorf is never getting a new moveset. Considering that his Brawl incarnation shared very few animations when compared to Falcon and yet turned out as he did, it seems that his current status is by design, not necessity. If only he wasn't added to Melee...
 
Anth0ny said:
I wish de-cloning clones from the previous games was a priority.

In case that wasn't clear with Brawl, Smash 4 proves that it will never happen =/
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There were a slight number of new moves to Falco (and Toon Link if he counts as Young Link) in Brawl to try and differentiate them. Controversial opinion but I vastly prefer Ganondorf's choke hold in Brawl too.

Whether people actually liked those changes or not is a different manner, but there was a (slight) attempt at least.
 
DICKS AHOY said:
There were a slight number of new moves to Falco (and Toon Link if he counts as Young Link) in Brawl to try and differentiate them. Controversial opinion but I vastly prefer Ganondorf's choke hold in Brawl too.

Whether people actually liked those changes or not is a different manner, but there was a (slight) attempt at least.
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This is controversial? I thought everyone did...
 
SkullHydra said:
Was it a New 3DS?
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Nope, it was used.

DICKS AHOY said:
There were a slight number of new moves to Falco (and Toon Link if he counts as Young Link) in Brawl to try and differentiate them. Controversial opinion but I vastly prefer Ganondorf's choke hold in Brawl too.

Whether people actually liked those changes or not is a different manner, but there was a (slight) attempt at least.
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I don't think that's controversial, it's a better move, but it becomes a bit of a crutch because it's so good (see: Project M). That move isn't what made Ganon bad in Brawl either. If that was his only change from Melee, Brawl Ganon would've been damn good.
 
DICKS AHOY said:
Ganondorf was otherwise awful in Brawl, so I kind of assumed most people who aren't me also preferred his original side-B that was closer to Falcon's.
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Nah, the Flame Choke has a lot of character and he never used the Raptor Boost much anyways.

Ganondorf sucked in Brawl, but it's because he's slower than George W Bush and his recovery blows, not because he got an awesome new move.
A Link to the Snitch said:
So I never played Brawl Ganondorf; what's the minimum that needs to be done to make him good in this game?
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Make him run faster than an N64 playing Banjo-Tooie.
 
I have a horrible headache tonight, I can't bully juniors like this, I need someone to step in for me, please don't let those shitbags get too overconfident
 
DICKS AHOY said:
Ganondorf was otherwise awful in Brawl, so I kind of assumed most people who aren't me also preferred his Melee side-B that was closer to Falcon's.
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Nah he was terrible but none of it had to do with his side B. Also while they made some changes it obviously wasnt that huge of a priority since they turned Ganondorf's FS into the exact same as Captain Falcon's.
 
Toxi said:
Nah, the Flame Choke has a lot of character and he never used the Raptor Boost much anyways.

Ganondorf sucked in Brawl, but it's because he's slower than George W Bush and his recovery blows, not because he got an awesome new move.

Make him run faster than an N64 playing Banjo-Tooie.
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So speed was the only issue?
 
Toxi said:
Nah, the Flame Choke has a lot of character and he never used the Raptor Boost much anyways.

Ganondorf sucked in Brawl, but it's because he's slower than George W Bush and his recovery blows, not because he got an awesome new move.
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Yeah. That's what irritates me about Brawlandorf, because his speed, while not the fastest, certainly never felt very slow in Melee, and his recovery wasn't that bad, especially with being able to jump again after the down B, which they took out in Brawl.
Also, I think the knockback on his Up B was nerfed, but I forget.

A Link to the Snitch said:
So speed was the only issue?
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Speed and recovery really were his main issues, plus Brawl's physics didn't mesh well with Ganondorf's moveset.
 
I wish that if they are cutting Lucas they'd at least officially confirm Ness. I know he's in due to the leaks, but god damn does it suck having no Mother representation during the build up to the game.
 
A Link to the Snitch said:
So I never played Brawl Ganondorf; what's the minimum that needs to be done to make him good in this game?
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  • Dashing animation and speed changed to match their Melee incarnations.
  • Midair jumping height increased; Ganondorf can now edge hop properly onto the stage without needing to utilise the advanced flipman tech.
  • Neutral attack's reach was reduced, but its start-up was significantly decreased back to its Melee speed, and its knockback values were reverted back to its more combo friendly Melee levels as well.
  • Forward tilt can be angled like it could in Melee, has improved horizontal reach, and has less ending lag.
  • New up tilt: Ganondorf lifts his foot, then brings it down an electric stomp of high hitbox duration. Lasts for about 60 frames, and hits twice, much like Captain Falcon's up tilt in Smash 64, with the second hit having strong power and knockback, enough to reliably KO under 100%. It deals up to 30% damage (3% more than the Brawl up tilt).
  • Down tilt has less ending lag.
  • Dash attack has its faster speed from Melee and now be canceled in to a long DACUS.
  • Up smash reverted back to the stronger and faster "tornado kick" from Melee. It also has slightly wider hitboxes and the second kick deals slightly more damage.
  • Down smash reverted back to its Melee form, being much faster, stronger, and hitting more vertically. The hits in down smash also link into each other more effectively.
  • Neutral aerial's hits are easier to link into each other, and the move autocancels sooner, allowing it to be autocanceled in a short hop. The second kick has also been reverted back to its Melee power, though it retains its Brawl sourspot.
  • Forward aerial's frame data has been reverted to back to its faster and much less laggy Melee version. It additionally retains its sourspot from Brawl, but it was decreased in size and now has the strength of his Melee fair, with the sweetspot retaining its Brawl power. The move also has slightly more reach.
  • Back aerial given its stronger Melee knockback and longer hitbox duration, and the late weak hitbox has been removed.
  • Down aerial's late weak hitboxes have been removed, and the hitboxes as a whole are slightly larger. It also has slightly less ending lag, which allows it to still autocancel in a short hop as it can in Brawl. It additionally no longer has transcendent priority, which now allows it to cancel out projectiles.
  • Grabbing reach from Brawl was slightly improved.
  • Up throw has less base knockback, so it can now be effectively followed up on, as well as chain throw fast fallers.
  • Down throw's knockback scaling was weakened, and has its Melee trajectory of throwing the opponent right next to Ganondorf, allowing it to chain throw and setup very effectively.
  • Grounded Flame Choke deals more damage, plus it travels faster and farther. Additionally, if Ganondorf falls off an edge with the move, he will go into the ending animation instead of instantly becoming helpless, allowing him to still grab the ledge within the game's new physics.
  • Aerial Flame Choke deals slightly more damage and now inflicts caught opponents with a weak set knockback meteor smash, causing them to weakly bounce up instead of being immediately floored; this leads to it having guaranteed followups (especially if the opponent doesn't tech), and is overall much easier to followup. In addition, if Ganondorf performs a Sacrificial KO with it when him and his opponent are on their last stock, he'll always win now (unlike in vBrawl where it results in either a Sudden Death or loss for Ganondorf).
  • Dark Dive has slightly faster start-up, and its power has been drastically increased, with it dealing slightly more damage than the Melee version while being able to reliably KO under 150%, which also now prevents opponents from being able to attack Ganondorf out of the move. The throw also completes much faster, giving caught opponents much less time to react and DI.
  • Wizard's Foot has its late weak hitboxes removed for both grounded and aerial versions, and its power has been increased to being slightly stronger than its Melee version, reliably KOing around 115%. Aerial Wizard's Foot also restores Ganondorf's midair jump and spikes opponents as it did in Melee, significantly improving Ganondorf's recovery and equipping him with a deadly edge guard.
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Something like this, at least.
 
Ceravic said:
I wish that if they are cutting Lucas they'd at least officially confirm Ness. I know he's in due to the leaks, but god damn does it suck having no Mother representation during the build up to the game.
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I know right? We've only gotten a glimpse at the Mr. Saturn/Franklin Badge....
 
I literally did think this entire time people's hatred of Brawl 'dorf extended to his choke hold, whoops.

Dude still needs his projectile and his up and down specials further tweaked, but I'm starting to live with the idea he'll forever be swordless/trident-less in Smash.
 
What a list, lol

You know, I don't wanna say that Ganon doesn't deserve a moveset based on himself, but Ganondorf wasn't that bad; he was definitely very much a physical attacker, or at least felt like he could be. I would honestly just give Ganondorf a sword attack as his B move, and change one of his moves to be an energy missile.
 
MrSaturn99 said:
I know right? We've only gotten a glimpse at the Mr. Saturn/Franklin Badge....
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Yeah, it really sucks. Melee we had Ness confirmed as a starter, and Brawl we had Lucas and pretty much had Mother stuff to look forward to from the start. Smash 4 it seems like the Harry Potter that they hide under the stairs and pretend doesn't exist.
 
DICKS AHOY said:
I literally did think this entire time people's hatred of Brawl 'dorf extended to his choke hold, whoops.

Dude still needs his projectile and his up and down specials further tweaked, but I'm starting to live with the idea he'll forever be swordless/trident-less in Smash.
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To be fair, until you play Project M, you'd assume that move was part of the problem. I did. But it's really not.

And his Up and Down specials aren't really bad imo. They're pretty good in my opinion. His neutral B needs a change for normal competitive play, though, because it's virtually useless the way it is right now.
 
As much I love the Brawl Dojo page for Ganondorf, they should change his run back to something like the Melee one...and give him a projectile, I suppose.

And I kinda like the idea of a sword/tridentless Ganny.
 
He should use the sword or trident instead of the punch, but not base the whole moveset on it obviously. Make the range worth the huge windup.
 
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