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[The Captain]

If Dark Pit eventually got a different outfit, people's opinions would change. Regardless of his character, he just isn't visually distinct enough. Even the glasses from that Bayonetta scribble would help.

That's ultimately what makes clones okay for me. Toon Link is quite visually different from Link, which makes me like him more than Wolf, who, while playing more differently to Fox than Toon Link does to Link, looks too similar to Fox.

 

[random25]

Guys, enough of this clone talk. I think we all know who the real slot waste is.

Hey, may I know the real name of that guy? I just gotta take note...

*Grabs an apple from my pocket, then throws it up in the air...*

 

[Golnei]

You get the fuck out.

It's a series with consistently weak sales, a perpetual identity crisis and no notable characters to speak of. Two slots is enough as it is.

Isn't Ridley supposed to be intelligent? I don't think he qualifies as mindless, what with being the leader of the space pirates.

Ridley is intelligent, but he's not shown in quite the same light as other sapient characters. Sure, he can build robots and give orders, but he lacks humanity in a way most of the roster don't. I think he could fit in well enough, but there is a thematic disconnect there.

 

[Red Arremer]

I don't think SA-X would work because I feel it goes against something I've sort of realized about Smash...the "human-like" element.

Basically, all the playable characters, even the animals and robots, usually have a humanoid element to them. Ridley and SA-X don't really have that...they're mindless monsters basically, and I don't think those are the type of characters Sakurai, and even Nintendo, are really interested in making playable.

You've brought this up like 500 times, and 500 times it has been refuted.
No, Ridley is NOT a mindless monster. Even if you completely discount the manga, he is canonically a commander of the Space Pirates' forces (he is outright named as being the military commander), as well as the very least an immensely skilled scientist in the field of robotics, as he is the one who built the Ridley robot at the end of Zero Mission.

I doubt a "mindless monster" would be capable of fielding an army as big as the Space Pirates' while also building a robot copy of himself.

 

[Kinsei]

Only in the manga, in the actual games, he's pretty much just a complete monster with no redeeming qualities.

I just think it'd be weird to play as a character like that.

Except for the fact that he's still the space pirate leader in the games. Just because he doesn't waste his time talking to his enemies doesn't mean he's mindless.

It's a series with consistently weak sales, a perpetual identity crisis and no notable characters to speak of. Two slots is enough as it is.

Sooo, I guess FE didn't deserve a second rep until after Awakening?

 

[WonderRade]

I dunno. I did asked for source but people wouldn't able to provided the citation.

Maybe its the quote where during melees development he didnt even consider ganondorf but as they were doing the clones, someone was like ganondorf and falcon have similair builds or whatever and sakurai was like, people want ganondorf?

 

[The Captain]

Am I the only one who would laugh if in the next game we get Kraid as a playable character?

I really want to see Doshin the Giant be playable as a giant, imagine the fan backlash after "Ridley is too big, but Doshin is just right."

 

[MillionVolts]

Did you play Kid Icarus Uprising? I ask because I am curious.

I did.

Actually the best part about this whole thing is that, if I remember correctly, Sakurai turned down having Wolf as the Fox clone in Melee because he feared that with shared animations, people would view him as just "gray-colored Fox." I guess "black-colored Pit" is okay when he's one of your characters, huh, Sakurai.

P.S. I am not that salty about Dark Pit. I don't think he's interesting enough to warrant being a separate character, but I've come to terms with it.

 

[Durden77]

Were you fine with Wolf? I see him being similar to that.

At least he's his own character. Dr. Mario is just Mario wearing a coat. I don't mind his inclusion either, but it's the less favorable of the two.

Wolf is one of the two I'm talking about. I get what you're saying though, he could turn out similar to Wolf. I just don't think that's necessary at all though personally, and would hate to see him of all characters become an actual newcomer.

And not Lucina or Dr. Mario? Kept raging about characters wouldn't bringing your Snake back.

Not particularly fond of them either especially the Doc, but they're not Dark Pit. And they were most likely alts that just got slight alterations to make them new characters, which makes a bit of sense and should be the same for Dark Pit. He's just my least understandable of the 3. And why do you care? Dark Pit's already in the game. No amount of raging is going to take him out. So let me rage. You can even beat me up with Dark Pit with the game comes out. I.....I have nothing....

 

[Mariolee]

Awaiting the helmetless Mega Man alt.

Come on, Sakurai HAS to do this, right?

It was even in the very first trailer! I sure hope so.

 

[IntelliHeath]

I really have a hard time seeing how anyone who actually played KI:U not watched an LP or read someone's impressions online could actively think Dark Pit is a bad selection for a clone, especially when in the same breath they mention Lucina is a good choice.

If Lucina had been male and Dark Pit been female but had the exact same roles in their game/story would peoples opinions be flipped?

It's more likely opinions being flipped.

 

[Jawmuncher]

You've brought this up like 500 times, and 500 times it has been refuted.
No, Ridley is NOT a mindless monster. Even if you completely discount the manga, he is canonically a commander of the Space Pirates' forces (he is outright named as being the military commander), as well as the very least an immensely skilled scientist in the field of robotics, as he is the one who built the Ridley robot at the end of Zero Mission.

I doubt a "mindless monster" would be capable of fielding an army as big as the Space Pirates' while also building a robot copy of himself.

They need to be showing this more rather than telling us. Think a lot of people's opinions should change if that was the case. Though we need a. New metroid game for that.

 

[PK Gaming]

Woah, check it out, Light Samus alt costume. Looks like i'm going to have to start using Samus now!

 

[Moonlight]

Ridley is intelligent, but he's not shown in quite the same light as other sapient characters. Sure, he can build robots and give orders, but he lacks humanity in a way most of the roster don't. I think he could fit in well enough, but there is a thematic disconnect there.

what a human and relatable character that ROB is

 

[BassForever]

Only in the manga, in the actual games, he's pretty much just a complete monster with no redeeming qualities.

I just think it'd be weird to play as a character like that.

Ridley has been shown in the games to have intelligence, just because he doesn't have spoken dialogue doesn't mean he's a complete monster.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Welp, this thread is a cesspool now.

Feel free to leave again if it bothers you

And I totally agree with everyone saying that Dark Samus is the best possible Metroid rep. I think the time is passed though, unless there's a Prime 4, and who knows if Dark Samus would even show up in a Prime 4...

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

But I mean, just imagine Ridley as playable.

Could you see him having a silly grabbed animation?
A "uh-oh I'm falling!" animation when he's teetering over the edge of a cliff?
Clapping for the other characters at the end of a match?

This is what I mean, I don't care if he's the leader of the Space Pirates or whatever, Ridley just doesn't have the same versatility as the other playable cast members.

 

[Toxi]

Only in the manga, in the actual games, he's pretty much just a complete monster with no redeeming qualities.

I just think it'd be weird to play as a character like that.

Oh, he has no redeeming qualities, but he's not mindless.

This cutscene's the most obvious example

 

[IntelliHeath]

Nothing funny about that at all.

 

[ffdgh]

Welp, this thread is a cesspool now.

...Now?

I hope we get more alts tomorrow. Would love to see what 2 other colors peach gets.

 

[Nocturnowl]

what a human and relatable character that ROB is

Did you forget the tragic plight of The Ancient Minster in the SSE and the destruction of his R.O.B kingdom?

 

[GregLombardi]

But I mean, just imagine Ridley as playable.

Could you see him having a silly grabbed animation?
A "uh-oh I'm falling!" animation when he's teetering over the edge of a cliff?
Clapping for the other characters at the end of a match?

This is what I mean, I don't care if he's the leader of the Space Pirates or whatever, Ridley just doesn't have the same versatility as the other playable cast members.

I imagine when he gets hit it makes the same sound that it made from the first Metroid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leMbLftNJ7M

 

[Toxi]

But I mean, just imagine Ridley as playable.

Could you see him having a silly grabbed animation?
A "uh-oh I'm falling!" animation when he's teetering over the edge of a cliff?
Clapping for the other characters at the end of a match?

This is what I mean, I don't care if he's the leader of the Space Pirates or whatever, Ridley just doesn't have the same versatility as the other playable cast members.

Yes to all three.

Ridley's no stranger to silly animations anyway.

 

[MrSaturn99]

ridley will never be playable.....

Now? At what point was it ever not a cesspool?

it's a cesspool of love!

 

[NeonZ]

Lucina is great as a character, I just wish she wasn't a pure Marth clone. Sure, she spends some time pretending to be Marth, but that doesn't mean they should be identical. It bothers me that even the taunts and idle animations (aside from the mask one) are the same as Marth.

Hey, Intelligent Systems did it first in Awakening.

If Lucina had been male and Dark Pit been female but had the exact same roles in their game/story would peoples opinions be flipped?

The main issue with Dark Pit's inclusion is his visual similarity, not his character. So, yeah, if it were a girl, it'd be much easier to accept his/her addition, since the design obviously wouldn't be the same.

 

[Kinsei]

But I mean, just imagine Ridley as playable.

Could you see him having a silly grabbed animation?
A "uh-oh I'm falling!" animation when he's teetering over the edge of a cliff?
Clapping for the other characters at the end of a match?

This is what I mean, I don't care if he's the leader of the Space Pirates or whatever, Ridley just doesn't have the same versatility as the other playable cast members.

So before Smash you could see Ganondorf (A guy who could hover in OoT) do two of those things?

 

[Red Arremer]

It's a series with consistently weak sales, a perpetual identity crisis and no notable characters to speak of. Two slots is enough as it is.

And Fire Emblem isn't? The sales of the Fire Emblem prior to Awakening also have been pretty weak, and it's in a constant "identity crisis", as there's only a handful of games that play in the same time with the same characters, like Ike's 2 games. Yet Fire Emblem has 4 characters in Smash - 5 across the entire series - and I would argue that most Fire Emblem characters aren't all that notable either, as most of them lack depth and personality.

Ridley is intelligent, but he's not shown in quite the same light as other sapient characters. Sure, he can build robots and give orders, but he lacks humanity in a way most of the roster don't. I think he could fit in well enough, but there is a thematic disconnect there.

So murdering countless people and turning them into brainless zombies is more humane? Ganondorf did that, yet nobody says Ganondorf is a mindless monster or lacks the humanity to be playable.

 

[WonderRade]

But I mean, just imagine Ridley as playable.

Could you see him having a silly grabbed animation?
A "uh-oh I'm falling!" animation when he's teetering over the edge of a cliff?
Clapping for the other characters at the end of a match?

This is what I mean, I don't care if he's the leader of the Space Pirates or whatever, Ridley just doesn't have the same versatility as the other playable cast members.

Its an interesting conundrum for me. On one hand I think Sakurai could get him to work ( its like this guys gift); however I think no matter how he is as a playable character it just cant do him justice.

Spoiler

I can't believe I just commented on the Ridley debate... Smashgaf is rea

l

 

[Kyzon]

It just dawned on me that, given how Star Wolf's Theme is in the game, it would be a real slap in the face if Wolf weren't included as a playable character. D:

It just dawned on me that, given how Dark Samus is a very unique Assist Trophy in the game, it's a real slap to the face that she's only an alt color for Samus.

Spoiler

Sakurai is a champion slap boxer

 

[Berordn]

Could you see him having a silly grabbed animation?

Sure, since it's the same thing with Bowser and Ganondorf in that aspect.

A "uh-oh I'm falling!" animation when he's teetering over the edge of a cliff?

Honestly I have more trouble with Bowser Jr. doing this in a car that hovers.

Clapping for the other characters at the end of a match?

He doesn't have to, since some other characters also don't.

I'm not advocating for Ridley (today, anyway), but I don't think of any of these as a concern for any character.

 

[The Great Gonzales]

But I mean, just imagine Ridley as playable.

Could you see him having a silly grabbed animation?
A "uh-oh I'm falling!" animation when he's teetering over the edge of a cliff?
Clapping for the other characters at the end of a match?

This is what I mean, I don't care if he's the leader of the Space Pirates or whatever, Ridley just doesn't have the same versatility as the other playable cast members.

Sure, I can see that. Every other character has clapping animations, no matter who they are - the Pokemon, Snake, ROB, everyone. Some of them look a little silly, but that's kind of the point, isn't it? You're not supposed to take this game 100% seriously.

And he already has a teetering animation.

He doesn't have to, since some other characters also don't.

Really? I thought they all did. Oh well, that's an even better answer, then.

 

[random25]

Welp, this thread is a cesspool now.

Now?

Now?

...Now?

 

[The Bankslammer]

ridley slipping on banana peels and comically smacking against the camera are images that appeal to me

 

[Jawmuncher]

If Dark Pit had been a girl I would have never opened my mouth in dislike. Since as stated a different design would be the case.

It's the same reason I don't mind Lucina in the state she's in.

 

[Karsticles]

But I mean, just imagine Ridley as playable.

Could you see him having a silly grabbed animation?
A "uh-oh I'm falling!" animation when he's teetering over the edge of a cliff?
Clapping for the other characters at the end of a match?

This is what I mean, I don't care if he's the leader of the Space Pirates or whatever, Ridley just doesn't have the same versatility as the other playable cast members.

I see your point, but I think that some of these apply to other characters as well.

Silly grabbed animation? Hard to imagine it for Charizard, too.
Teeter animation? Seems weird to see Ganondorf like that.
Clapping for other characters? Charizard, again.

Though the fact that we have trouble imagining things like this does not mean Ridley is a poor fit. It is merely evidence of the mastery it would take to pull something like this off. I do think that Ridley has a different aesthetic feel from most of the cast, but the same thing largely applied to Snake in Brawl.

 

[Moonlight]

Did you forget the tragic plight of The Ancient Minster in the SSE and the destruction of his R.O.B kingdom?

I was trying to.

 

[BGBW]

...Now?

I hope we get more alts tomorrow. Would love to see what 2 other colors peach gets.

I'd suggest her white with red highlights dress from SMB but Rosalina seems to have that colour now.

 

[BassForever]

Fire Emblem went the persona route of becoming popular by plugging waifu and husbando concepts into the game as a main mechanic

That's what the next Metroid needs to be popular

Spoiler

I don't want that to happen, but I would laugh my ass off if it did

 

[-Horizon-]

So this is how thread 14 ends: self destruction.

:3c

Spoiler

I don't hate anyone here, it takes a lot to make me hate someone

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

So before Smash you could see Ganondorf (A guy who could hover in OoT) do two of those things?

Not exactly, but Ganondorf at the very least is a human (more or less) so it's not that hard to make him appear sympathetic. Like it's easier to make a human character seem friendlier than a giant purple dragon.

Hey, I thought people would be happy with a Ridley debate that doesn't focus on his size. I just think this element of Ridley is a far bigger barrier than his stature.

Silly grabbed animation? Hard to imagine it for Charizard, too.
Teeter animation? Seems weird to see Ganondorf like that.
Clapping for other characters? Charizard, again.

Charizard's design is far cuter than Ridley, plus his whole character is that he's basically a giant pet. He's got that sympathetic, humanoid element to him.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Wolf is one of the two I'm talking about. I get what you're saying though, he could turn out similar to Wolf. I just don't think that's necessary at all though personally, and would hate to see him of all characters become an actual newcomer.



Not particularly fond of them either especially the Doc, but they're not Dark Pit. And they were most likely alts that just got slight alterations to make them new characters, which makes a bit of sense and should be the same for Dark Pit. He's just my least understandable of the 3. And why do you care? Dark Pit's already in the game. No amount of raging is going to take him out. So let me rage. You can even beat me up with Dark Pit with the game comes out. I.....I have nothing....

I'm not that heartless, or maybe I'm.

Anyway, Just hope for DLC characters. I really want to see Snake getting in Smash again.

 

[Veeboy]

But I mean, just imagine Ridley as playable.

Could you see him having a silly grabbed animation?
A "uh-oh I'm falling!" animation when he's teetering over the edge of a cliff?
Clapping for the other characters at the end of a match?

This is what I mean, I don't care if he's the leader of the Space Pirates or whatever, Ridley just doesn't have the same versatility as the other playable cast members.

You know, I want Ridley but for some reason reading this made me realize that if he gets in all of his voice clips would probably be screeches. I don't know if I could handle that.

Spoiler

Still want him in though.

 

[WonderRade]

It just dawned on me that, given how Dark Samus is a very unique Assist Trophy in the game, it's a real slap to the face that she's only an alt color for Samus.

Spoiler

Sakurai is a champion slap boxer

I need to start my Wonder Red and Dark Samus campaign for smash 5

 

[Toxi]

It's a series with consistently weak sales, a perpetual identity crisis and no notable characters to speak of. Two slots is enough as it is.

"Consistently weak" is wrong. Metroid Prime was one of the top selling games on the Gamecube and the average Metroid still breaks a million. Metroid's not a top-seller. It is not a consistently weak seller.

 

[Berordn]

Really? I thought they all did. Oh well, that's an even better answer, then.

Ice Climbers are a good example. They do their crying animation that would pop up when failing the bonus stage.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Alright, belated cleans from yesterday:

And then today's:

And some more Shulk fanart because why the heck not:

Oh god the comments

OOGA BOOGA SAMUS ARE YOU SCARED?

I was designed at 4AM!

Just check out the PAL differences for Brawl.

NoA: Pikachu
NoE: PIKACHU! GOD DAMN PIKACHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!

I can't get over how awesome "Roi DaDiDou" and "SCHIGGY" are.

♪ America... America.. ♪

 

[Kyzon]

>_<

 

[Mariolee]

It just dawned on me that, given how Dark Samus is a very unique Assist Trophy in the game, it's a real slap to the face that she's only an alt color for Samus.

Spoiler

Sakurai is a champion slap boxer

PIC OF THE DAY: When Dark Samus is chosen as an Alt Costume for Samus, Alfonso is in charge of Dark Samus's Phazon-powered assist trophy!

"LEAVE IT TO ME!"

 

[Pizza]

But I mean, just imagine Ridley as playable.

Could you see him having a silly grabbed animation?
A "uh-oh I'm falling!" animation when he's teetering over the edge of a cliff?
Clapping for the other characters at the end of a match?

This is what I mean, I don't care if he's the leader of the Space Pirates or whatever, Ridley just doesn't have the same versatility as the other playable cast members.

But what you described is exactly what id want for ridley! Ganondorf and bowser's grab/teeter/oops you jumped on my head are all incredibly silly in the context of who they are, ridley looking goofy at certain points when he's at a disadvantage would fit right in, imo.

The "ridley is too big/wouldnt work" arguments fall flat for me when you take into account that bowser has been as big as a planet.

Also, ive replaced one of charizard's alt costumes in brawl with a nice ridley model and it works flawlessly. Hes roughly the size of bowser and fits right in!

 

[Lunar15]

I've always personally imagined Ridley to be intelligent and cunning. He's not the brains of the operation (that pun belongs to Mother Brain), but I've always seen him as being the actual leader of the space pirates while Mother Brain contacted him and used the space pirates to fit her needs. But this is all head cannon. Nothing really backs it up.

I've never seen him as being an animal or beast like, but Other M, once again, had other ideas about that.