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[Señor Coyote]

Being a men is a biological and genetical condition, being a police is a professional and vocational choice, being a "gamer" (in quotations) as is criticised by these articles is a consumerist choice attached to an inclination to over consumption, clique wars behaviours and immaturity. The "gamer" identity rightfully or not is associated with childish play, being a waste of time, since the beginning of the industry. An unhealthy lifestyle. Truth is though that today, there are millions of people that play video games, and don't even think about it too much. It's a past time, entertainment, nothing more than that. The massification of video games is responsible now for millions of people that aren't "gamers" they just happen to play games.

People that are writing these article saying "gamers" are dead. Are just emphasising this shift, this cultural paradigm shift that's inexorable.

The people reading articles on gaming culture more often then not are the people she so flippantly categorizes though.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

honestly? because the majority of people involved are not so blind as to make that connection. Also because this end goal is important. and no there is no goal of 'zoe being super sad' or anything.

the end goal is pretty clear. Journalistic integrity, and media reform. I'm so sorry that zoe is a casualty of it and I'll be sorry if my career becomes a casualty of it but If that's what it is, then that's what it is.

The #gamergate thing started out toxic and is still toxic, though.

"journalistic integrity" and "media reform" are nice words, but to a large segment of people supporting the hashtag it translates to "get rid of those sjw and their feminist clickbait!"


I don't see how trying to reform a clearly toxic campaign into something positive does anything more but provide a shield to the people who essentially set this campaign up as a shill to harrass and bully from the get go.

I checked their history.

they weren't. I never thought to take screencaps and I wish that I had.

No need, nobody here has a reason to not believe your experience. Some "social justice" that person adheres to if they happily insult people over their weight. /: fuck that.

 

[Lime]

the end goal is pretty clear. Journalistic integrity, and media reform. I'm so sorry that zoe is a casualty of it and I'll be sorry if my career becomes a casualty of it but If that's what it is, then that's what it is.

I see no reason why a woman like Zoe Quinn should be a casualty for journalistic integrity, when she has absolutely zero relevance or impact on games journalism.

 

[mnz]

There is this big contradiction between wanting higher journalistic standards and then not wanting certain types of criticism (that "SJW" stuff). That's all I think of now that someone mentions "journalistic integrity" and "media reform".

L. Rhodes put it really well here: https://medium.com/@upstreamism/to-fair-minded-proponents-of-gamergate-7f3ce77301bb (also in the OP)

 

[flatearthpandas]

Oh well, if it's been covered exhaustively through actual textual analysis then that's that!

Never mind that many other people deduced the point of those articles and agreed with them.

Well... yeah. I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not claiming that unsupported "deductions" are more convincing than an analysis of the actual words written, but it sounds like that's what you're saying. All this, of course, ignoring that these articles made a bad situation measurably worse, in complete contrast to their supposed goals.

But yeah, they were great.

 

[boogie2988]

I'm responding to a lot of people here so no quotes, however...

You're asking me what the agenda of gamergate is. Well I can't really speak for it because there are tens of thousands of people involved and sure, their needs and desires differ.

I can speak for myself and say that if I had my wish websites like kotaku and polygon and ign would do the following

1) Issue an apology for their role in this whole thing. Its ok if they stay vague, honestly. Just be sorry that they played a role in this.
1b) wouldn't hurt if we saw apologies for the whole 'gaming is dead' thing. that sucked

2) Begin to start posting exclusively articles about games, the companies that make them,
and the industry.
2b) avoid posting editorials as content, avoid clickbait, avoid non-gaming related crap.

3) begin disclosing when money is exchanging hands and when favors are exchanging hands. This includes 'gifts' like tablets and pcs and free copies of games or whatever else.
3b) fully disclose all connections the author of an article has with so and so. It would be swell if you could simply click on an authors name and see things like "Owns stock in so and so" and "is best friends with so and so".
3c) at the very least when the author has a conflict of interest, to recuse themselves or disclose that information.

If we woke up on monday to every one of those sites posting letters claiming this stuff then this 'war' would be over.

Insane people would still enjoy torturing zoe quinn and probably say its because of 'gamergate' though because that's just what crazy people do.

 

[mnz]

Is it really "tens of thousands of people", though? It seems like such an organized thing that it speaks very loudly, but I don't know if it's as big as some people think.

 

[polychron]

the end goal is pretty clear. Journalistic integrity, and media reform. I'm so sorry that zoe is a casualty of it and I'll be sorry if my career becomes a casualty of it but If that's what it is, then that's what it is.

The BNP have some pretty good policies on public transport, but it'd still be wrong for me to go "I'm against all the racism and bigotry but I'm still gonna go out and talk along with these guys from the BNP because I liked their transport policy". The people who founded this whole campaign and have hidden behind it are really frightening individuals, and their targets cannot be considered acceptable collateral for a desire for more openness in the press.

 

[boogie2988]

What is "media reform"? Give me five things you think IGN/Kotaku/Polygon/etc. should do tomorrow.

And I'd look into your own "sides" ethics as far as Youtubers go - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-07-16-blurred-lines-are-youtubers-breaking-the-law

I am not responsible for any other youtuber's ethics and only responsible for my own. I have been on the inside of a lot of talks about reform about that too and when that breaks into media I'll be quite vocal about that too.

I myself try to keep my house nice and neat and I think I've done a perfect job so far.

 

[Lime]

boogie2988, by tying yourself to the gamergate movement, you are basically doing this:

To speak metaphorically here for a second, you walked in on a scene where a group of aging, bigoted, white, male nerds that are reluctant to see their landscape troubled were screaming, shouting, and threatening game developers and writers, then you stood next to those bigoted nerds while saying "Also I have some other, less strident demands!" The only rational reaction is to ignore you because you have chosen the worst possible way to raise any legitimate issue.

Misogyny is an accurate, unexaggerated descriptor of what has been happening over the last week, with targeted campaigns of violent harassment against outspoken women in the industry. Talking about it any other way is whitewashing the abhorrent behavior that people have been displaying.

Calling for journalistic integrity is fine (obviously), but now and for this movement is not the time.

 

[Lalalandia]

the end goal is pretty clear. Journalistic integrity, and media reform. I'm so sorry that zoe is a casualty of it and I'll be sorry if my career becomes a casualty of it but If that's what it is, then that's what it is.

But it's really not, I have yet to hear any actual steps for achieving anything just bland statements of end goals like 'integrity'. If you have a clear path for reaching that end goal please do share and start a campaign to get there. You are a prominent YT user if you were to start a campaign to support the goals you believe GG was about you could salvage those who got caught up in this trojan horse hate campaign. If you do start a campaig though you had better actually have an actual plan thus far much of the non-bigoted backing for GG hasn't had much to say beyond 'We like good stuff, down with bad stuff' while failing to define either.

 

[scoobidoo112]

I am not responsible for any other youtuber's ethics and only responsible for my own. I have been on the inside of a lot of talks about reform about that too and when that breaks into media I'll be quite vocal about that too.

I myself try to keep my house nice and neat and I think I've done a perfect job so far.

You have and I support you because of it.

 

[boogie2988]

The BNP have some pretty good policies on public transport, but it'd still be wrong for me to go "I'm against all the racism and bigotry but I'm still gonna go out and talk along with these guys from the BNP because I liked their transport policy". The people who founded this whole campaign and have hidden behind it are really frightening individuals, and their targets cannot be considered acceptable collateral for a desire for more openness in the press.

Just to be clear I've never considered zoe, or anita, or anyone else involved in this 'acceptable' collateral damage. Its quite disgusting and awful. I quite obviously condemn such things, because I have a working empathy zone in my brain. But collateral damage they still are and there's little that can be done to fix it. If there was, I would do it.

That said, I see little direction other than forward at this point or those casualties were for nothing and that breaks my heart even further.

 

[boogie2988]

boogie2988, by tying yourself to the gamergate movement, you are basically doing this:



Calling for journalistic integrity is fine (obviously), but now and for this movement is not the time.

I simply cannot rest now because I cannot accept that the damage that has been done to myself, to zoe, to anita, to gamers, and to the business is something I can sleep with.

Either we achieve something from this or all of that pain was for nothing.

 

[Lime]

But collateral damage they still are and there's little that can be done to fix it.

This is incredibly disheartening to read from a person with a lot of subscribers and followers.

If there was, I would do it.

How about not joining and defending a movement like Gamergate that is rooted in misogyny and harassment of women in video games?

I simply cannot rest now because I cannot accept that the damage that has been done to myself, to zoe, to anita, to gamers, and to the business is something I can sleep with.

Either we achieve something from this or all of that pain was for nothing.

You have to rest or at least distance yourself from Gamergate. Right now, it is women who are being targeted and harassed and bullied and excluded. By continuously contributing to the movement, you white-wash what is going on right this instant.

Either make a new hashtag or movement or put a rest to advocating Gamergate.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

But collateral damage they still are and there's little that can be done to fix it. If there was, I would do it.

You make it sound like they died and there's absolutely no way to restore reputation damage. :|

 

[Moral Panic]

1) Nothing to apologise for.

2) Why? If Kotaku wants to have articles about a watermelon that looks like an ass I don't see what that has to do with anything. Editorials are content.

3) Most already do this.
3b) People are friends and I think it's riduclous that a journalist has to be completely distant from the people they are covering. No one will tell you secrets if they don't like you.
3c) Define what you peronally mean by, a conflict of interest. The Guardian didn't think that there was a conflict of interest with Zoe Quinn and Jenn, but people who know better on the internet used that to fuel their inane theories.

Rebekah Mary Brooks (née Wade; born 27 May 1968) is an English journalist and former newspaper editor.

Brooks and her husband have close social ties to Prime Minister David Cameron and his wife. For example, a December 2010 dinner party was attended by Cameron and James Murdoch.[61] In 2008 she borrowed a retired police horse from the Metropolitan Police. She kept it on her Oxfordshire farm, where it was ridden by David Cameron.[62]

Brooks was once also a friend of Tony and Cherie Blair;[63] and Gordon and Sarah Brown.[64] Her wedding to Charlie Brooks in 2009 was attended by Gordon Brown and David Cameron.

Her ex-husband Ross Kemp appeared in the Labour Party party election broadcast for the 2010 UK General Elections.

Reality.

 

[boogie2988]

This is incredibly disheartening to read from a person with a lot of subscribers and followers.



How about not joining and defending a movement like Gamergate that is rooted in misogyny and harassment of women in video games?

that is food for thought and while I may drop the hashtag I simply will not stop calling for the type of reform I described above.

I'll consider this.

I'm sorry that's disheartening to have read. It was quite difficult for me to type.

 

[boogie2988]

You make it sound like they died and there's absolutely no way to restore reputation damage. :|

I tried to do exactly that in a twitter exchange with zoe tonight, you should check it out. I extended her my sympathies and wished her the best. I'm not a monster or anything, regardless of people trying to label me as such for simply speaking my mind about media reform.

 

[JesseEwiak]

1) Nothing to apologise for.

2) Why? If Kotaku wants to have articles about a watermelon that looks like an ass I don't see what that has to do with anything. Editorials are content.

3) Most already do this.
3b) People are friends and I think it's riduclous that a journalist has to be completely distant from the people they are covering. No one will tell you secrets if they don't like you.
3c) Define what you peronally mean by, a conflict of interest. The Guardian didn't think that there was a conflict of interest with Zoe Quinn and Jenn, but people who know better on the internet used that to fuel their inane theories.



Reality.

Thanks for replying so I don't have too. But yeah, sorry #2 in that list sounds a lot like, "stop actual criticism of games beyond a surface level. Just tell me whether it's awesome or not, not say if it's horribly sexists and racist because I just want to have fun with my vidya games."

As for #3, yup. If you want tougher standards than most American newspapers and The Guardian, then I don' know what to tell you.

 

[alstein]

You make it sound like they died and there's absolutely no way to restore reputation damage. :|

Sometimes there isn't. I suspect Zoe Quinn and Leigh Alexander will never live down their reputation damage at a minimum.

 

[Seeds]

The articles weren't poorly written, they were poorly read. A lot of people didn't understand the point that was being made even though it was articulated clearly.

The article starts of with describing those she's criticizing as ''young men queuing with plush mushroom hats and backpacks'', that ''don’t know how to dress or behave'', and who know little about how ''human social interaction and professional life works''.

That is, she starts of with attacking how these people look, not their actions, ascribing a very perticular look to those she's talking about. How is that not a poorly written?

 

[Lalalandia]

Thanks for replying so I don't have too. But yeah, sorry #2 in that list sounds a lot like, "stop actual criticism of games beyond a surface level. Just tell me whether it's awesome or not, not say if it's horribly sexists and racist because I just want to have fun with my vidya games."

As for #3, yup. If you want tougher standards than most American newspapers and The Guardian, then I don' know what to tell you.

I'm afraid you need to think about point #2 pretty hard boogie because as Jesse says it really comes across as 'Stop asking questions of my media, it's great just the way it is'. This is an ugly sentiment that has never led anywhere good, we still have really dumb fun action movies after decades of criticism they've just dropped most of the really bad habits they had. We will still have whatever form of games you feel are threatened by engaging with critique we'll just have less of the really ugly stuff that comes with them now.

 

[Real Hero]

You are doing huge damage to your legitimate points by intertwining them with a movement/hash tag that is strongly linked to misogynistic abuse. Socialists who supported Stalin weren't helping their cause.

 

[Corpekata]

I don't get why sites would need to not do editorials or articles about random stuff. There isn't a cap on the content they produce, we're not missing a story about a game in favor of a story about a robot dog. We're getting both stories generally. Even in the Kotaku of 4 years ago as you put it, there was a TON of stuff going up every day. That's sort of a trait of Gawker Media.They cover practically everything and anything.

I mean, there's only so much in a day you can write on, especially in a media that releases like half their big products in a very small window of the year, and one that has historically a pretty tight rein on what information can even be reported on.

 

[theSlacker]

No-one is using the IRC caps as a representation of everyone on that side of the issue!

What people like me are saying is that #GamerGate was founded in toxicity amid harassment of ZQ and has continued to have a strong toxic element. Now, it may be a small minority of #GamerGate supporters involved directly in that abuse but there are many other people playing down the harassment or saying that it's faked. Thunderf00t, who has lot of youtube viewers and who people see as a credible intelligent man, has accused AS of faking threats.

At the same time, the actual 'corruption' charges don't withstand any scrutiny and the real problems in game journalism aren't even being talked about as people focus on a few indie devs! #GamerGate has zero merit.

Sorry, I missed your post while responding to another. In a way it relates to this as well though. Anyone on either side can claim anyone else as faking, and it would be better if that stopped, as to what has normally been called as faking has been parts of this that are indefensible anyway. That is to say the ongoing harassment. Lets say that even if all the hacking and harassment was proven to be fake it really does nothing to benefit the "non toxic element" of #GamerGate or any other hashtag as the personal credibility of ZQ should be irrelevant on that subject.

The actual corruption charges that you mentioned continuously get lost in the sea of hate and haven't had as much focus on them to develop even as much as this supposed #GamerGate ending info has. Would I much rather have more info on that "Fine Young Capitalist" project, or on the IGF stuff? Of course. I'm not even someone who has joined any "movement" or whatever. What purpose does it even serve people who support #GamerGate to not want to focus on that as well? It's just not happening. No articles on any of that, but we sure do have a lot on how dead gamers are. Some would claim that because of the ongoing harassment and how the people doing and saying terrible things are doing and saying those terrible things that it is imposable to actively peruse or cover any of the other subjects. Is that really the case? How can we ever talk about those specific issues since there are people that will always use the excuse to spout misogynist hatred?

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Sometimes there isn't. I suspect Zoe Quinn and Leigh Alexander will never live down their reputation damage at a minimum.

There's a difference between restoring reputation damage entirely & doing so at least a few steps.


I think undoing the damage done is more important & productive than trying to forcefully turn a harrassment campaign into a positive thing and somehow using that to make it "a good thing in the end".

 

[boogie2988]

I have to get some sleep (I'm nocturnal as you may know) and I'm not thinking clearly.

you guys have left me with a lot of food for thought and I greatly appreciate the civil dialogue and for challenging my perceptions. I'm really glad to be a gaffer.

g'nite.

 

[Kinvara]

I've stopped reading gaming "articles" quite a long time ago and I have yet to regret that decision.

This whole situation is a confusing, embarrassing mess.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

I have to get some sleep (I'm nocturnal as you may know) and I'm not thinking clearly.

you guys have left me with a lot of food for thought and I greatly appreciate the civil dialogue and for challenging my perceptions. I'm really glad to be a gaffer.

g'nite.

Sleep well!

 

[Kadayi]

What is "media reform"? Give me five things you think IGN/Kotaku/Polygon/etc. should do tomorrow.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=128613800&highlight=#post128613800

There's 7.

 

[JesseEwiak]

I'm afraid you need to think about point #2 pretty hard boogie because as Jesse says it really comes across as 'Stop asking questions of my media, it's great just the way it is'. This is an ugly sentiment that has never led anywhere good, we still have really dumb fun action movies after decades of criticism they've just dropped most of the really bad habits they had. We will still have whatever form of games you feel are threatened by engaging with critique we'll just have less of the really ugly stuff that comes with them now.

The ironic thing is, that of the "big" gaming sites, the one that is closest to the #2 ideal is well, IGN. And I say that as somebody who is probably doesn't even mind IGN all that much compared to the Internet hivemind.

 

[Sneds]

The article starts of with describing those she's criticizing as ''young men queuing with plush mushroom hats and backpacks'', that ''don’t know how to dress or behave'', and who know little about how ''human social interaction and professional life works''.

That is, dhe starts of with attacking how these people look, not their actions, ascribing a very perticular look to those she's talking about. How is that not a poorly written?

If I was Alexander I wouldn't have included the stuff about people's appearance. It was unnecessary and became the focus of people's ire (in order to avoid dealing with the more substantive points she made?).

But overall I thought the article had a strong central argument that she expressed strongly. I agree with this central argument as I've said in previous posts in this thread.

Well... yeah. I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not claiming that unsupported "deductions" are more convincing than an analysis of the actual words written, but it sounds like that's what you're saying. All this, of course, ignoring that these articles made a bad situation measurably worse, in complete contrast to their supposed goals.

But yeah, they were great.

1) If by 'actual textual analysis' you mean reading and understanding the content of the articles and their arguments then, yes, I believe that my analysis is sound. We obviously have different interpretations.

2) What do you think the supposed goals of the articles were?

 

[Earl_Grey]

2) Begin to start posting exclusively articles about games, the companies that make them,
and the industry.
2b) avoid posting editorials as content, avoid clickbait, avoid non-gaming related crap.

Hey, Boogie, I'm a big fan of your work.

But I can't say I'm particularly impressed by this part of your manifesto. I realize you probably composed it on the fly in response to being asked, but I can't help but think points like 2) are highly reductive and ultimately damaging.

Games are not processed cheese, they are an art form and must be treated as such. That means they MUST be exposed to criticism from various different schools of thought. They MUST be considered from a larger social context. That's what a good journalist provides, facts and larger context. Editorials are a huge part of that. As for "clickbait," with a few exceptions, that's an entirely subjective label. Clickbait, I've found, is an article someone disagrees with.

Perhaps it wasn't your intent to sound so reductive, but remember that the people you've chosen to throw in with (which I'll remind you includes characters like Baldwin and Aurini) have expressed a desire to keep gaming pure and unmolested by outside influences. They have a tiny, boring idea of what games are, and by attempting to stifle criticism that goes beyond the purely mechanical, they're attempting to limit what they can become.

I would hope you'd have more respect for the medium than that. How we talk about games is hugely hugely important.

 

[Silky]

I have to get some sleep (I'm nocturnal as you may know) and I'm not thinking clearly.

you guys have left me with a lot of food for thought and I greatly appreciate the civil dialogue and for challenging my perceptions. I'm really glad to be a gaffer.

g'nite.

Boogie you might be the most genuine YT personality I know. Mad respect.

 

[Sneds]

I have to get some sleep (I'm nocturnal as you may know) and I'm not thinking clearly.

you guys have left me with a lot of food for thought and I greatly appreciate the civil dialogue and for challenging my perceptions. I'm really glad to be a gaffer.

g'nite.

Thanks for being open and honest. We all do appreciate it. I've been vitriolic in this thread but I really feel that the #GG campaign is doing tangible harm to people's careers, mental health and general wellbeing. And for what? I hope that you step away from #GG, wait a while, and then find a new way to seek the change you want for the games media.

 

[theSlacker]

Boogie you might be the most genuine YT personality I know. Mad respect.

If nothing else his proposed changes to the gaming press show a kind of innocence that shows how genuine he is. The poster above you covered some of the actual critical response to them though.

 

[TestOfTide]

This whole ordeal is kinda making me ashamed to be CoD gamer (I use that term because for a while that's all I've been playing). I already had a heated argument with an xbox live friend over ferguson and I constantly feel uncomfortable whenever for SOME REASON *cough* hearing a girl's voice makes players much more likely to use harsher language.

But this harassment shit and realizing that by playing only a few mainstream games I am contributing to the lack of diverse gaming culture.... I don't want to have to stop playing what I enjoy over this but I just might.

 

[JesseEwiak]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=128613800&highlight=#post128613800

There's 7.

Enthusiasm & passion for the medium. Certainly no ones demanding 'this is going to be the best game evar' hollow tub thumping, but a bit more glass half full versus glass half empty wouldn't go amiss. In what is still a medium that is in its infancy its unrealistic to expect games to live up to the hype that often surrounds them, but criticism doesn't always have to be resoundingly negative.

Aside from the fact that almost every gaming podcast I listen too is full of people talking about the awesome games they're playing, it's kind of hilarious when the main criticism of the games press is they're handing out 10's like they're candy.

Journalistic integrity. Not everything in this link is going to be applicable, but there's not a whole lot wrong with using those points as a base line in terms of conduct and behaviour: -

http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp

And with that in mind editors, don't be afraid to let people go who consistently fail in that regard. The world doesn't lack for people who can write about games.

I don't actually think most games press have a problem with any of that, especially those actually employed by companies and not dependent on Patreon, but I guess, mileage may vary if being friends with developers is a horrible breach of ethics.

Fact checking. If someone claims something on twitter, don't just take their world for it, do the due diligence and check it's actually the case with a third party. And if you're unable to confirm it, then at least acknowledge that it hasn't been confirmed in the piece.

Again, putting aside this is likely an editorial decision to be "first," most articles I see about BIG NEWS usually has a line about Sony/Microsoft/Company X not confirming the information.

Investigate. Foxes 'well I'm not sure Linda but maybe they are death camps' approach to hang wringing journalism is not the model you should aspire to. When the rumours did the rounds about Origin being spyware I don't recall one mainstream article bothering to establish if it was in fact spyware, versus hollow fear mongering.

There are so many rumors that frankly, I don't know what needs to be debunked and what will flame out on it's own within a day or two. Not every rumor in politics, sports, or so on, is covered by ABC, ESPN, or CNN either. Now, criticize what they do or don't investigate, but also realize that frankly, when major newspapers can't put together major investigations anymore, I don't know how Kotaku can.

Don't second guess your readership.
Don't alienate your readership.

Sometimes your readership is wrong and needs to be told they're being idiots.

No 'No comments'. If you're going to put your thoughts and opinions out there for public consumption then have the decency to expect critical feedback on them from the public.

What if instead of comments (ignoring the fact I can't think of a major website without comments), they said, "no comments, but email a response to letters@xxx.com and we'll post the best 10 responses. After all, again, CNN shut down comments to their stories because they realized it was toxic.

 

[V_Arnold]

Sometimes there isn't. I suspect Zoe Quinn and Leigh Alexander will never live down their reputation damage at a minimum.

Excuse me, but what exactly have Leigh Alexander lost in all this? Most (all?) the points she has made remain valid.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

But this harassment shit and realizing that by playing only a few mainstream games I am contributing to the lack of diverse gaming culture.... I don't want to have to stop playing what I enjoy over this but I just might.

Just gonna quote Anita Sarkeezian's opening line from her videos:

but remember that it is both possible (and even necessary) to simultaneously enjoy media while also being critical of it’s more problematic or pernicious aspects.

It's okay to enjoy something while at the same time being critical. No reason to feel personally ashamed or bad for playing. There'd be very little left to enjoy otherwise.

Excuse me, but what exactly have Leigh Alexander lost in all this? Most (all?) the points she has made remain valid.

There is a lot of reputation damage. /: Gaf's fairly reasonable about this whole ordeal but there's large chunks of the internet that are still 100% behind all the conspiratorial stuff.

 

[theSlacker]

This whole ordeal is kinda making me ashamed to be CoD gamer (I use that term because for a while that's all I've been playing). I already had a heated argument with an xbox live friend over ferguson and I constantly feel uncomfortable whenever for SOME REASON *cough* hearing a girl's voice makes players much more likely to use harsher language.

But this harassment shit and realizing that by playing only a few mainstream games I am contributing to the lack of diverse gaming culture.... I don't want to have to stop playing what I enjoy over this but I just might.

That is heavy burden that you have to weigh on your own. You really shouldn't let the bad actions of bad people taint what you enjoy, or blame yourself too much if you are indeed not partaking in said actions. It doesn't hurt to diversify interests though.

 

[jgminto]

This whole ordeal is kinda making me ashamed to be CoD gamer (I use that term because for a while that's all I've been playing). I already had a heated argument with an xbox live friend over ferguson and I constantly feel uncomfortable whenever for SOME REASON *cough* hearing a girl's voice makes players much more likely to use harsher language.

But this harassment shit and realizing that by playing only a few mainstream games I am contributing to the lack of diverse gaming culture.... I don't want to have to stop playing what I enjoy over this but I just might.

I don't think there's anything wrong with playing the type of games you enjoy and you don't really need to stop playing. What's important is calling out abuse when you see or hear it, that's really the best thing you can do. And if you do want to support more diversity as well, feel free to chip a couple bucks towards any cool indie games you see.

 

[theSlacker]

There is a lot of reputation damage. /: Gaf's fairly reasonable about this whole ordeal but there's large chunks of the internet that are still 100% behind all the conspiratorial stuff.

Even on GAF there are people who take major issue with not only the points she raised but the tone of her message. Others may say that those that took issue didn't completely understand her of course.

 

[flatearthpandas]

1) If by 'actual textual analysis' you mean reading and understanding the content of the articles and their arguments then, yes, I believe that my analysis is sound. We obviously have different interpretations.

2) What do you think the supposed goals of the articles were?

Clearly. I'm content to leave it at that if that means no more claims about other people's reading abilities. Dissenting opinions from yours are well supported.

2) I assume the intent was not to enrage the audience and drive them into #GamerGate. Perhaps I'm wrong.

 

[marrec]

Excuse me, but what exactly have Leigh Alexander lost in all this? Most (all?) the points she has made remain valid.

Her reputation for being a firebrand editorial writer that forces the gaming community to question itself is certainly in tact.

 

[Lime]

In case anyone here is a fan of the guy: "Mundane Matt" (some gamer youtube personality) is in the chatroom screenshots that Quinn has shown:

What a scumbag.

 

[TestOfTide]

Just gonna quote Anita Sarkeezian's opening line from her videos:


It's okay to enjoy something while at the same time being critical. No reason to feel personally ashamed or bad for playing. There'd be very little left to enjoy otherwise.

But I've been reading the twitters of the people who got bullied out of the industry and a common theme I see is a resentment towards the mainstream video game culture (compared to the indie game culture). And by playing CoD, I'm playing a game filled with the exact culture these people are talking about.

It's like realizing that I'm playing the Chick fil-A of video games.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

But I've been reading the twitters of the people who got bullied out of the industry and a common theme I see is a resentment towards the mainstream video game culture (compared to the indie game culture). And by playing CoD, I'm playing a game filled with the exact culture these people are talking about.

It's like realizing that I'm playing the Chick fil-A of video games.

Keep in mind that with Chick Fil-A it is quite literally the people responsible that hold the
absolutely discriminatory beliefs tied to that joint.

A lot of the devs that Anita's been critical of have reacted positively to her message & seem willing to change. There's a very clear line between a toxic "host" and toxic "Guests".

I don't know much about the development staff behind CoD, but your issue seems to be with your fellow gamers.

 

[Darkfield]

I am not responsible for any other youtuber's ethics and only responsible for my own. I have been on the inside of a lot of talks about reform about that too and when that breaks into media I'll be quite vocal about that too.

I myself try to keep my house nice and neat and I think I've done a perfect job so far.

You sure did Boogie and you have my respect for it.