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[Deleted member 17706]

Why do some people suddenly act as if you´re Boogie´s disappointed parents? The dude has been nothing but kind, intelligent and civil and yet you're willing to instantly vilify him because his opinions on feminism differ from yours. Pathetic. You have no respect for people, only those who parrot your own opinions for you. Very sad to see this. Show some respect for the guy.

Just because he agrees with some of Sommers Tweets doesn't mean he stands for everything she stands for. He agrees with her on gamergate and that's it.

EDIT: More specific

Nuance is difficult for a lot of people.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

You make it sounds like all hope is lost in that last sentence, Ark D;

And I do agree with that it's won in the one aspect of pushing people out and the constant gatekeeping.

Well I did change my avatar from The Princess Bride to something a bit darker for the occasion.

Jests aside, the silver lining is that in the end these people will move on once they can no longer conjure rabbit holes to dig in and quite simply just get bored. That might not be for a long while though and there will be some incredibly long lasting effects and damage to the community. Hopefully some benefits will arise out of this when it is all said and done.

 

[Señor Coyote]

I see good things happening from this.

1. I think major developers will take feminist critique more seriously after seeing this. And the majority will side with inclusion.

2. I think game developers, journalists and social media will pay better attention to cyber harassment, especially harassment directed at developers.

3. I think journalists will stop talking down to their audience like everyone is a bigot.

4. I think the indie game scene will take inclusiveness more seriously.

5. I think people who are really sexist will be forced into the "spiral of silence" when they see all of their peers and role models conform towards a more inclusive future.

Aaaand 6. I hope to see a few harassers and hackers go to jail/get sued.

That would be beautiful.

I hope this happens.

 

[Deitus]

I find it pretty disheartening that there has been basically ZERO discussion on the ShortFatOtaku video that was posted a few pages ago and the only posts that have even referenced it so far only really spoke about the intro.

A) It was discussed to death in the previous thread.

B) When a video starts out in such an inflammatory way that it's obvious they aren't arguing in good faith, people aren't going to watch the whole thing.

C) There is a ton of jumping to conclusion in that video. There was a lot of work done connecting people together, but the the conclusion of the person making the video is "these people know each other, therefore they are fucking" and this means that every action they take is obviously a favor for the other person.

If you want to discuss the points raised in the video in a level headed manner, please find a source for those points that isn't so vitriolic.

 

[Nanashrew]

I see good things happening from this.

1. I think major developers will take feminist critique more seriously after seeing this. And the majority will side with inclusion.

2. I think game developers, journalists and social media will pay better attention to cyber harassment, especially harassment directed at developers.

3. I think journalists will stop talking down to their audience like everyone is a bigot.

4. I think the indie game scene will take inclusiveness more seriously.

5. I think people who are really sexist will be forced into the "spiral of silence" when they see all of their peers and role models conform towards a more inclusive future.

Aaaand 6. I hope to see a few harassers and hackers go to jail/get sued.

That would be beautiful.

That sounds like a nice new world. I'm kind of hoping that something good like any of this starts happening. I've just really had enough of what's being going on and finding it hard to keep up.

On the topic of #NotYourShield I once thought of the hashtag #NotYourSword but that would only antagonize #GamerGate further.

 

[ExodusRex]

The void is a lot like the troll. It has no name. It has no gender. It knows only how to grasp and make you bend unto itself, it torments you until you become just like it. So you turn back and attack it with its own vile weapon and then too late you realize that which it wanted was you to harpoon itself, to link yourself unto it so it can drag you under with that uncaring tether. As no one can name the troll, they can but name you. It drags you under, through the mud and past everyone who knows your name caught and ensnared publicly to be displayed and mocked at from hidden heights. You look up now at unfriendly and unknown eyes and then you glance below at the familiar and known. It takes you under and you allow the tether to become slack as you join the beast in now familiar depths of the abyss. She who fights with monsters should look to it that she herself does not become a monster. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein.

 

[Vipershark]

A) It was discussed to death in the previous thread.

B) When a video starts out in such an inflammatory way that it's obvious they aren't arguing in good faith, people aren't going to watch the whole thing.

C) There is a ton of jumping to conclusion in that video. There was a lot of work done connecting people together, but the the conclusion of the person making the video is "these people know each other, therefore they are fucking" and this means that every action they take is obviously a favor for the other person.

If you want to discuss the points raised in the video in a level headed manner, please find a source for those points that isn't so vitriolic.

I'm talking about a brand new, completely different video.
It was uploaded just hours ago.

Someone linked it back on page 51 and it was almost immediately buried under Sommers and Boogie crap.

Here's a new video rεgarding IGF, Indiecade, Polytron and shady dealings. It's rather... interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUVt7ujK-9TT9KByzL9g_2QQ&v=HM_Z5YTop7g&feature=player_detailpage

 

[zeldablue]

Nuance is difficult for a lot of people.

You can be disappointed in someone's opinion and still like someone.

I love Jontron, but I was disappointed by his way of dismissing Anita's video. *shrug*

 

[MHWilliams]

I find it pretty disheartening that there has been basically ZERO discussion on the ShortFatOtaku video that was posted a few pages ago and the only posts that have even referenced it so far only really spoke about the intro.

Granted, I'm not saying I agree with the intro in question (because yeah, I do think it's dumb) but for anyone that's been paying attention and has seen the previous videos, that's just a general intro that's been used in ALL of the "Quinnspiracy Theory" videos and isn't exclusive to this one (outside of the Phil Fish specific stuff). Do I think the intro is good? No. Should it be used in the future? No. Not to mention the fact that immeidiately after the intro ends, the narrator flat-out tells everyone to leave Zoe Quinn (and everyone else!) alone because all the fighting is detracting from other issues.
Regardless, that's not the point.

There has been a video posted with allegations of possible legitimate corruption going on with evidence sourced from Polytron's own leaked financial documents (so it's not like they're just pulling data out of thin air) in which they specifically had to seek legal counsel and make a legal statement just to be able to even post the video, and the entire thing just got buried under irrelevant discussion of whether or not Boogie and Sommers are okay people or not.

What's the point of having a thread of discussion about GamerGate if things that aren't anti-GamerGate just get immediately buried and/or blown off?

I'm not even trying to argue in favor of GamerGate here, but it's pretty clear that this thread isn't unbiased at all when discussion beyond decrying pro-Gate people doesn't even start.

So show the documentation. That is how ethical journalism works. Right now, there is a video saying "this thing happened!" without much in the way of proof. The allegations against the IGF and IndieCade currently, don't even pass muster with how the judging and jury process actually works at IGF.

No, we don't just jump at any shadow or accusation that appears. There's nothing to report. Lawsuit started? Actual documentation appears? Then you got something.

We'd also have to ask where they got the documentation. I mean, people said Fish faked the hack, right?

You can be disappointed in someone's opinion and still like someone.

I love Jontron, but I was disappointed by his way of dismissing Anita's video. *shrug*

Indeed. Like most other things, the stuff you like may not be 100 percent kosher. It happens. That's life.

 

[Deitus]

I'm talking about a brand new, completely different video.
It was uploaded just hours ago.

Someone linked it back on page 51 and it was almost immediately buried under Sommers and Boogie crap.

Ah, I didn't realize it was a different video. It had a similar title and the same opening sequence, so I just closed window thinking it was the same thing.

Again, that crap is not helping people take the video seriously (not directed at you, but at the person who made the video).

 

[CaptainBroseph]

So show the documentation. That is how ethical journalism works. Right now, there is a video saying "this thing happened!" without much in the way of proof. The allegations against the IGF and IndieCade currently, don't even pass muster with how the judging and jury process actually works at IGF.

No, we don't just jump at any shadow or accusation that appears. There's nothing to report. Lawsuit started? Actual documentation appears? Then you got something.

We'd also have to ask where they got the documentation. I mean, people said Fish fakes the hack, right?

The video states that the hack was real, and that they use documents obtained from the hack to connect the people in the video. I don't know if you're aware, so I'll just say this is legal, because of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times_Co._v._United_States

 

[ArkkAngel007]

1. I think major developers will take feminist critique more seriously after seeing this. And the majority will side with inclusion.

This is incredibly long term. Anita's work is rather recent, and it will take time for such things to establish themselves. We may also have to unfortunately rely on a newer generation of developers to take that charge if we don't see much movement in established houses.

2. I think game developers, journalists and social media will pay better attention to cyber harassment, especially harassment directed at developers.

I think this has been something that has been well recognized since the release of Mass Effect 3. Aside from a Weekly Harassment Roundup on Kotaku or whatever, there's not much more exposure that those who aren't focused on selling products (IGN, GameInformer) can do in that regard.

3. I think journalists will stop talking down to their audience like everyone is a bigot.

I'll bring up Mass Effect 3 here again, and *bleh* #resolutiongate. There's just people out there who are going to do it because that's who they are. Hopefully the outlets themselves can curb it more, but these people will still do it on their own space as folks from Polygon and Adam Sessler have done, and it will still be attached to journalism in those personal spaces.

4. I think the indie game scene will take inclusiveness more seriously.

This is the most achievable goal here.

5. I think people who are really sexist will be forced into the "spiral of silence" when they see all of their peers and role models conform towards a more inclusive future.

Some may be swayed, but many of the characters doing this stuff do not and will not ever care.

Aaaand 6. I hope to see a few harassers and hackers go to jail/get sued.

Hopefully. I gotta say the defense force out there in regards to the celebrity leaks and against the FBI involvement has been fairly disturbing, especially with these places trying to use privacy as a shield to their rights.

 

[Corpekata]

A lot of the SFO video is dealt with by IGFs' own news post. http://igf.com/2014/09/igf_statement_re_judging_proce.html

Given it seems unaware about how the process works, it is hard to take the claims seriously.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

I find it pretty disheartening that there has been basically ZERO discussion on the ShortFatOtaku video that was posted a few pages ago and the only posts that have even referenced it so far only really spoke about the intro.

Granted, I'm not saying I agree with the intro in question (because yeah, I do think it's dumb) but for anyone that's been paying attention and has seen the previous videos, that's just a general intro that's been used in ALL of the "Quinnspiracy Theory" videos and isn't exclusive to this one (outside of the Phil Fish specific stuff). Do I think the intro is good? No. Should it be used in the future? No. Not to mention the fact that immeidiately after the intro ends, the narrator flat-out tells everyone to leave Zoe Quinn (and everyone else!) alone because all the fighting is detracting from other issues.
Regardless, that's not the point.

There has been a video posted with allegations of possible legitimate corruption going on with evidence sourced from Polytron's own leaked financial documents (so it's not like they're just pulling data out of thin air) in which they specifically had to seek legal counsel and make a legal statement just to be able to even post the video, and the entire thing just got buried under irrelevant discussion of whether Boogie and Sommers are okay people or not.

What's the point of having a thread of discussion about GamerGate if things that aren't anti-GamerGate just get immediately buried and/or blown off?

I'm not even trying to argue in favor of GamerGate here, but it's pretty clear that this thread isn't unbiased at all when discussion beyond decrying pro-Gate people doesn't even start.

I went beyond the intro and discussed a bit of what was throughout the video, though as not part of 4chan, #GAMERGATE my access is a bit limited beyond some videos and other supplied content.



In short, I believe it is worth looking into in regards to the IGF, even if I believe no one would be giving a shit again if it didn't involve Quinn and Fish.

But if you're going to lie to me in the video about your intents when you say one thing but demonstrate another, tell your audience to only listen to them, and work in close association with the problem individuals in this so called righteous cause, then I'm not going to support you. That's the stance I've taken with the video that could have otherwise been an actual place to stand on that front.

 

[MHWilliams]

The video states that the hack was real, and that they use documents obtained from the hack to connect the people in the video. I don't know if you're aware, so I'll just say this is legal, because of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times_Co._v._United_States

Oh, I watched the video.

Again: Documents. Lawsuit. Court Documents. Proof.

Second, NYT vs. US only covers the leaking of government documents.

http://www.cjr.org/the_observatory/the_legality_of_publishing_hac.php?page=all&print=true

The Pentagon Papers case (New York Times Co. v. United States) tends to get thrown out there as the catch-all for press freedom, and it came up in myriad comments sections during “ClimateGate.” However, the Pentagon Papers represent a situation in which the Federal Government was trying to proactively prevent the press from publishing classified documents (what is known as prior restraint) that were leaked by an individual with legitimate access to the information, but no permission to distribute it. The Supreme Court favored a broad interpretation of First Amendment press freedoms, but left open the option for the government to prevent publication if it could prove a relatively high level of irreparable harm to national security.

Because the Pentagon Papers case was decided on a specific issue of prior restraint by the federal government preventing the initial publication of documents, it is not really analogous to questions about the legality of re-publishing the hacked e-mails from the University of East Anglia: they were not government documents implicating state secrets with national security implications, and there is no issue of attempted prior restraint.

There's other cases that relate to it, but that's not one of them.

I brought up the latter point because many claimed that Fish was lying about the hack for sympathy.

 

[Noaloha]

As a targeted smear campaign of uncertainty/doubt on Quinn's character, the folks who, with ill will, initially pushed #gamergate must be patting themselves on the back. Mission success for them I guess.

 

[The Silver]

sheesh, this is getting way too damn convoluted for me. What the hell is IGF and why is it a scandal and a big deal?

im nearing a "im getting too old for this shit" moment........and im not even old.

 

[zeldablue]

This is incredibly long term. Anita's work is rather recent, and it will take time for such things to establish themselves. We may also have to unfortunately rely on a newer generation of developers to take that charge if we don't see much movement in established houses.

With AAA games...everything is built off of the last big hit. If the best seller/GoTY is filled with rape and slaughtered prostitutes, every game is going to try to have more rape and more prostitutes in an attempt to be more edgy and successful.

However, we're already seeing games like the Last of Us getting very high praise. And that's a game that never demeans women in a hilariously hammy sexist way. If that game is the game to beat out, then more games will try harder to be even better than TLoU when it comes to showing women. Infamous: SS surprised me too with the main villain being a non-sexualized woman.

It's all about marketing trends and the target audience after all.

 

[boogie2988]

Probably the most damning of his messages so far, its obvious that this is not some sober attempt to fix game journalist for him, that sounds extremely personal and with some baggage.

This sucks so bad, as a fan of the guy its a shame that someone that is capable of showing empathy ended up supporting people with the same kind of mentality of the ones that have abused of him in the past, a shame someone so sweet can post something so sour and still pretend that his message is of peace and love.

when someone attacks me and says "why won't you come to defend zoe" i gave my answer.

If this is "damning" to say then I'll be gladly damned.

But please don't try to pin any anti-feminist agenda on me. I'm a card carrying member of the equal rights campaign, I absolutely preach about women's rights and equality in the majority of my videos.

I'll admit I'm not 100% perfect and I'll make my mistakes from time to time. This may even be one of them.

But to pretend that I have some sort of hidden anti-female agenda up my sleeve is insulting.

But if this is what you want to make of me to try to discredit my message of equality and kindness in this whole thing, go for it. I won't lose any sleep either way.

 

[Bold One]

....

yeah I am done here for the day lol

It's disturbing to see users like Lime trying to manipulate Boogie into agreeing with them and then turning quite nasty when it doesn't work out. Boogie is a good guy but it's this sort of dismissive bullying that leads people like him to go further to the right.

ok so i'm trying to educate myself on this whole thing and to be honest i'm having a hard time swimming through the sea of nasty. I listened to this video that was sent to me and i'm curious how it would be viewed in the situation?

http://youtu.be/O-rnW8XjQnE

I honestly did not even know who Zoe and Anita were until today so i'm way behind on the details but there are a lot of views and opinions on the subject (i'm also reading through this thread and some stuff on reddit).

It has all gotten very nasty, its partly why I left the discussion, the pathological desire for righteous indignation became overwhelming some people who thought themselves acolytes started crossing lines to show just how edgy they are while they judge others for their perceived slights.

at this point you are better off sitting it out and just watching, chances are you will learn a lot more and avoid the risk of a ban.

#notboldenoughforthis

 

[Yrael]

when someone attacks me and says "why won't you come to defend zoe" i gave my answer.

If this is "damning" to say then I'll be gladly damned.

But please don't try to pin any anti-feminist agenda on me. I'm a card carrying member of the equal rights campaign, I absolutely preach about women's rights and equality in the majority of my videos.

I'll admit I'm not 100% perfect and I'll make my mistakes from time to time. This may even be one of them.

But to pretend that I have some sort of hidden anti-female agenda up my sleeve is insulting.

But if this is what you want to make of me to try to discredit my message of equality and kindness in this whole thing, go for it. I won't lose any sleep either way.

Hi Boogie, good to see you back! I have to admit I'm curious about why you see Hoff Sommers as an outstanding voice to listen to in this series of events, and which particular views of hers you agree with - would you mind please elaborating? (I'm not sure how much you know of her work.)

 

[ArkkAngel007]

sheesh, this is getting way too damn convoluted for me. What the hell is IGF and why is it a scandal and a big deal?

im nearing a "im getting too old for this shit" moment........and im not even old.

Independent Game Festival. Connections were made between Phil Fish and judges that initially question if Phil Fish had pretty much palmed their 2012 GOTY and delayed Fez intentionally for him and others to benefit from, iirc, some sort of payout.

This then gets tied into whether or not the media was bought in covering all the winners of past IGF awards from Fez to Dear Esther, and I guess Quinn had some game there too and two of the judges are on the list her ex provided on The Zoe Post.

Trust me, I'm well past that point mentally. Especially the parts where articles are used in saying how indies act like one giant clique and haven't grown up, by people who aren't in the position of levying such assumptions.

 

[zeldablue]

when someone attacks me and says "why won't you come to defend zoe" i gave my answer.

If this is "damning" to say then I'll be gladly damned.

But please don't try to pin any anti-feminist agenda on me. I'm a card carrying member of the equal rights campaign, I absolutely preach about women's rights and equality in the majority of my videos.

I'll admit I'm not 100% perfect and I'll make my mistakes from time to time. This may even be one of them.

But to pretend that I have some sort of hidden anti-female agenda up my sleeve is insulting.

But if this is what you want to make of me to try to discredit my message of equality and kindness in this whole thing, go for it. I won't lose any sleep either way.

I think I'd be nice to set the tone right here. No one should be judging you. No one should be trying to feel morally superior to you.

We just thought you'd see this from all sides more.

 

[boogie2988]

Also in reference to me supporting mrs summers and the claim that I have 'baggage', I want to just go ahead and spill the beans on all of that.

I was raised by a single mother. Well, my father was actually handicapped after a stroke so I guess she was more of a married mother who also had to take care of her husband.

The lady was pretty crazy and did some horrible things but she has always remained my rolemodel of what a strong independent woman could be. I admired her strength, and admired it even over her insanity.

She was also a proud feminist. She believed that women were in every way equal to men and made sure that I believed and understood that too. She made sure that I believed that a woman could endure and rise above any and all obstacles set before them.

In college I began to learn about how the world was different for women over men. I learned all about the different obstacles they faced. With a rape that involved our entire football team on campus I also became aware of the dangers women faced.

Through the years I've done what I could to fight for equality for all people, taking special note that women have to endure a more difficult climb and extra dangers that men would not have to face. I also factored into it that women were just as good and as strong as men and were more the capable of overcoming it.

About 2 years ago I was 'thrown under the bus' by a friend over a contraversy about a Magic: the gathering card. The art for this card showed a powerful male character overpowering a female character, and the art was somewhat proactive. This is the first time I ever learned anything about "Triggers". I took to twitter to proclaim "I don't see rape in this picture" and was lectured over and over about how I was dismissing other women's feelings and how cruel that was.

It got me to begin study feminism and the way its changed since I was a kid. Its all rather confusing to me but I'm trying to adjust so I can better champion women and other diverse groups in gaming in my videos.

In that tweet I rejected the notion that I should not come to the defense of Zoe Quinn, because I felt that she would not come to my defense. I implied that this is because I am a straight white cis male. Many people picked up on the ire in that comment, as you should. It is very frustrating to me that I am the "Enemy" because of the circumstances of my birth. It is very frustrating to me that my words mean nothing because of the origin they are coming from. It is very confusing to me that even when I am trying to offer my valid opinion it is shrugged off as "mansplaining".

just a few hours after making that tweet, I tweeted zoe quinn. I offered her my apologies and my sincere regrets for any damage she's befallen and any role I have played in it. That tweet was when I first lost my temper during all of this and that tweet was also a learning moment for me.

I'm not perfect, I never claimed to be. I'm still learning.

But my heart is true and it remains true, and I'll continue to do EVERYTHING I CAN to champion equality for all people in gaming and elsewhere until my dying breath.

If you want to hate me or discredit me or dig up dirt on me, that's fine. You're welcome to do it.

I know who and what I am and I'll sleep soundly at night knowing I'm doing my best, even if my best isnt very good.

 

[boogie2988]

Hi Boogie, good to see you back! I have to admit I'm curious about why you see Hoff Sommers as an outstanding voice to listen to in this series of events, and which particular views of hers you agree with - would you mind please elaborating? (I'm not sure how much you know of her work.)

From what I've read of hers her ideals about feminism is similar to mine. That women are humans and men are humans and therefore we are equal in every way.

In her views that deviate from this, I cannot say I know them or support them, but in this view of hers I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Warm Machine]

They have, and the #GAMERGATE response has been that these places are censoring them and hiding the truth. Same thing happened to NeoGAF in regards to...ugh 'Quinnspiracy', even after EviLore made a thread after he and the mods figured out how to allow discussion while also demonstrating how off base the discussion was.

I don't agree. The media, at least on Twitter is still RTing every little comment made by their friends and peers. Even Tim Schafer is currently elevating BS. I love the guy and firmly behind him but he isn't going to win hearts and minds of the other side.

 

[Tigress]

According to the thread so far Sommers is too conservative to be considered a moderate as boogie claims (though for the population at large, I wonder what they're perspective is of her? I thought, generally speaking, most women don't like to be called a feminist, which seems a step even more conservative than Sommers).

This is because the same kind of argument that uses SJW as a slur to try to discredit you has effectively done the same thing for the term feminist.

I still call myself a feminist. I've been told I'm not cause a feminist is some one who wants more rights for females than males and that makes me not a feminist. People tried to change the term and mostly won that war. I just refuse to give in honestly. I'm a feminist because I want equality and fairness for everyone. Just because some people want to turn it into a slur I refuse to give in. Because, honestly, that is a step in the wrong direction. All it does is allow people to look at all the feminist movement and see it as a bad thing. And, it won't stop there. Now they have a new term to add, SJW. Pretty much kinda like how conservatives try to turn liberal into a dirty word (my dad does this all the time. If he calls you a liberal you should feel ashamed/insulted and you should realize that your views are obviously not right/stupid/laughable).

And yes, just cause I am a feminist and some one else is also one doesn't mean we always agree on the best way to go about it or have the same idea or agree.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

Thanks for sharing Boogie and I don't think anyone is looking to discredit or put you down here. I just think a lot of people were a bit shocked and off put that you were putting yourself behind an individual that has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way to put it lightly and contrarian to what you seem to stand for.

Maybe we'll talk more later, but I've stayed up later than intended as it is and need to turn in before I hit the road.

I don't agree. The media, at least on Twitter is still RTing every little comment made by their friends and peers. Even Tim Schafer is currently elevating BS. I love the guy and firmly behind him but he isn't going to win hearts and minds of the other side.

As I said in a different post, I think in response to zeldablues list of dreams, there's not much that can be down when it comes to these people's personal accounts. Most have a disclaimer saying 'my thoughts don't represent those of [insert outlet/company]'. Some tie their work into those accounts more than others, but that's the individual's space and not the media outlets.

It's what Twitter is used for other than marketing. It's an issue with that space and those individuals, and I would strongly consider avoiding it for a while until things die down.

Again, I was referring to the actual outlets and forums than specific individuals on their social page.

 

[zeldablue]

Also in reference to me supporting mrs summers and the claim that I have 'baggage', I want to just go ahead and spill the beans on all of that.

I was raised by a single mother. Well, my father was actually handicapped after a stroke so I guess she was more of a married mother who also had to take care of her husband.

The lady was pretty crazy and did some horrible things but she has always remained my rolemodel of what a strong independent woman could be. I admired her strength, and admired it even over her insanity.

She was also a proud feminist. She believed that women were in every way equal to men and made sure that I believed and understood that too. She made sure that I believed that a woman could endure and rise above any and all obstacles set before them.

In college I began to learn about how the world was different for women over men. I learned all about the different obstacles they faced. With a rape that involved our entire football team on campus I also became aware of the dangers women faced.

Through the years I've done what I could to fight for equality for all people, taking special note that women have to endure a more difficult climb and extra dangers that men would not have to face. I also factored into it that women were just as good and as strong as men and were more the capable of overcoming it.

About 2 years ago I was 'thrown under the bus' by a friend over a contraversy about a Magic: the gathering card. The art for this card showed a powerful male character overpowering a female character, and the art was somewhat proactive. This is the first time I ever learned anything about "Triggers". I took to twitter to proclaim "I don't see rape in this picture" and was lectured over and over about how I was dismissing other women's feelings and how cruel that was.

It got me to begin study feminism and the way its changed since I was a kid. Its all rather confusing to me but I'm trying to adjust so I can better champion women and other diverse groups in gaming in my videos.

In that tweet I rejected the notion that I should not come to the defense of Zoe Quinn, because I felt that she would not come to my defense. I implied that this is because I am a straight white cis male. Many people picked up on the ire in that comment, as you should. It is very frustrating to me that I am the "Enemy" because of the circumstances of my birth. It is very frustrating to me that my words mean nothing because of the origin they are coming from. It is very confusing to me that even when I am trying to offer my valid opinion it is shrugged off as "mansplaining".

just a few hours after making that tweet, I tweeted zoe quinn. I offered her my apologies and my sincere regrets for any damage she's befallen and any role I have played in it. That tweet was when I first lost my temper during all of this and that tweet was also a learning moment for me.

I'm not perfect, I never claimed to be. I'm still learning.

But my heart is true and it remains true, and I'll continue to do EVERYTHING I CAN to champion equality for all people in gaming and elsewhere until my dying breath.

If you want to hate me or discredit me or dig up dirt on me, that's fine. You're welcome to do it.

I know who and what I am and I'll sleep soundly at night knowing I'm doing my best, even if my best isnt very good.

Alright,

You're a good person, don't let people tell you otherwise.

In terms of gamergate, are your motives to stop the finger pointing, then? You want people to stop looking at you as the bad guy who is perpetuating sexism...right?

If it makes you feel better, people figure point at me, and I'm a privileged black woman. I still feel bad though. You should know that the people who figure point aren't doing it to make you the bad guy. I mean, that's what it clearly looks like, but it's really just people feeling silenced themselves.

Women get cut off and silenced all the time, and it has only been very recently where we are given a voice. And that voice is a very angry and desperate one because of frustration. I spent 4 years taking classes in game design, and this topic has always been the elephant in the room. It's finally being addressed and it makes me both happy and sad.

It's obviously done more harm than good, but you need to realize those blaming words aren't directed at you. It is directed at the people who enable and perpetuate sexism. And they are asking you to do something about it.

The gaming culture is extremely vile when it comes to this topic. And there is literally no reason for it. It's 2014...

 

[boogie2988]

Alright,

Your a good person, don't let people tell you otherwise.

In terms of gamergate, are your motives to stop the finger pointing, then? You want people to stop looking at you as the bad guy who is perpetuating sexism...right?

If it makes you feel better, people figure point at me, and I'm a privileged black woman. I still feel bad though. You should know that the people who figure point aren't doing it to make you the bad guy. I mean, that's what it clearly looks like, but it's really just people feeling silenced themselves.

Women get cut off and silenced all the time, and it had only been very recently where we are given a voice. And that voice is a very angry and desperate one because of frustration.

It's obviously done more harm than good, but you need to realize those blaming words aren't directed at you. It is directed at the people who enable and perpetuate sexism. And they are asking you to do something about it.

The gaming culture is extremely vile when it comes to this topic. And there is literally no reason for it.

I plan to continue to finger point at extremists of all types on all sides that are road blocking equality in gaming and as painful or as frustrating as it might be for me, I welcome anyone to question my role in this thing and to determine how much damage i may be unwittingly doing. I'm not above anyone else and no one is above me.

You said

Women get cut off and silenced all the time, and it had only been very recently where we are given a voice. And that voice is a very angry and desperate one because of frustration.

this is something I have not truly considered and I appreciate you saying it. You taught me something today. thank you. I won't soon forget it.

 

[zeldablue]

You said


this is something I have not truly considered and I appreciate you saying it. You taught me something today. thank you. I won't soon forget it.

Ah. No problem!

This is an extremely sensitive topic but it's good to see some understanding from time to time.

 

[boogie2988]

Ah. No problem!

This is an extremely sensitive topic but it's good to see some understanding from time to time.

while it may seem difficult to interpret from my actions or my statements, I would love to assure you that one of my major goals is to have a better understanding of these types of issues so I can have a better impact on the world. I've learned a lot in this very thread, and while I still reject some ideals that have been presented, others have changed me for the better including yours.

you are awesome.

 

[Corto]

Boogie, just remember that now you have a few millions that watch you, follow you and support you. You are in a privileged position. Use it well.

 

[boogie2988]

Boogie, just remember that now you have a few millions that watch you, follow you and support you. You are in a privileged position. Use it well.

I promise, corto. I'm doing everything I can to steer them in the right direction, but I truly appreciate the reminder to help keep me on target. <3

 

[Oersted]

So it boils down to you lost your temper? Why, if I may ask, against Zoe, the constant victim off the harassment under the hashtag #Gamergate ?

 

[Corto]

I promise, corto. I'm doing everything I can to steer them in the right direction, but I truly appreciate the reminder to help keep me on target. <3

Cool. You have your share of harassment and shit thrown at you constantly but the truth is that through your work you've reached a notoriety and have an army of followers to which you can draw some support that others don't. You need to take that into consideration.

 

[boogie2988]

So it boils down to you lost your temper? Why, if I may ask, against Zoe, the constant victim off the harassment under the hashtag #Gamergate ?

I never lost my temper with zoe. I know nothing about her and don't know her personally.

I lost my temper at the person that I tagged in that tweet because we had literally spent a night debating things privately and thought we were in a pretty solid place of understanding.

look at that tweet in context and maybe you'll understand:
https://twitter.com/Boogie2988/status/508172007264231424

or more importantly this part:

Being told I am willfully ignorant when I am doing my absolute best to understand is very frustrating for me.

In that moment of frustration I wondered why no one had ever come to my rescue because of my harassments, death threats, visits to my home, harassing phone calls and the like. I ventured that zoe would not care about me because I am a white male and not aligned with her passions. I felt this excused me from allying her.

It was a moment of weakness, and frustration, and guilt, and misery and I mispoke. Doesn't forgive it, but you asked why and I have explained.

 

[jetsetrez]

I don't agree. The media, at least on Twitter is still RTing every little comment made by their friends and peers. Even Tim Schafer is currently elevating BS. I love the guy and firmly behind him but he isn't going to win hearts and minds of the other side.

I've had to stop following a lot of people, and this whole thing has really soured my opinion of a lot of them. I generally don't even disagree with most of them about most of the issues (or any of them when it comes to the the harassment), but it's such an annoying echo chamber to watch as they just completely stonewall or make mockery of any differing opinion, and smugly pat each other on the back about how right they are and how child-like anyone is that has opposing views.

Ugh, I'm getting too old for this shit. I can't wait until Destiny comes out.

 

[boogie2988]

I've had to stop following a lot of people, and this whole thing has really soured my opinion of a lot of them. I generally don't even disagree with most of them about most of the issues (or any of them when it comes to the the harassment), but it's such an annoying echo chamber to watch as they just completely stonewall or make mockery of any differing opinion, and smugly pat each other on the back about how right they are and how child-like anyone is that has opposing views.

Ugh, I'm getting too old for this shit. I can't wait until Destiny comes out.

I agree entirely with this.

 

[Nephtis]

To begin with, twitter is a terrible platform where it's ridiculously easy for something to be taken out of context.

Anyone that takes to twitter and wants to make a point is a fool in my opinion. There are better venues for it. If you must use twitter, use it to link to the actual post.

 

[jetsetrez]

I agree entirely with this.

*high fives* Okay everyone, let's wrap this up. Sounds like we've reached agreement; no more need for GamerGate, no more harassment, no more hashtags, no more corruption, lets just respect one another, have more good female and minority roles in games, have better writing in games, be honest and impartial with headlines and reporting, not condescend to our audiences, disclose everything, have respect, be more kind, love each other, and play vidya. Alright? Alright! We good! Bam!

..Oh, if only it weren't just a dream.


I have a dream...

 

[Bold One]

To begin with, twitter is a terrible platform where it's ridiculously easy for something to be taken out of context.

Anyone that takes to twitter and wants to make a point is a fool in my opinion. There are better venues for it. If you must use twitter, use it to link to the actual post.

that thing has ruined so many careers

 

[Murdoch]

*high fives* Okay everyone, let's wrap this up. Sounds like we've reached agreement; no more need for GamerGate, no more harassment, no more hashtags, no more corruption, lets just respect one another, have more good female and minority roles in games, have better writing in games, be honest and impartial with headlines and reporting, not condescend to our audiences, disclose everything, have respect, be more kind, love each other, and play vidya. Alright? Alright! We good! Bam!

..Oh, if only it weren't just a dream.


I have a dream...

Righty ho, Glad thats all settled!

See; discussing things on the internet can be fruitful. Now let's get rid of those pesky vile youtube comments...

 

[Oersted]

I never lost my temper with zoe. I know nothing about her and don't know her personally.

I lost my temper at the person that I tagged in that tweet because we had literally spent a night debating things privately and thought we were in a pretty solid place of understanding.

look at that tweet in context and maybe you'll understand:
https://twitter.com/Boogie2988/status/508172007264231424

or more importantly this part:

Being told I am willfully ignorant when I am doing my absolute best to understand is very frustrating for me.

In that moment of frustration I wondered why no one had ever come to my rescue because of my harassments, death threats, visits to my home, harassing phone calls and the like. I ventured that zoe would not care about me because I am a white male and not aligned with her passions. I felt this excused me from allying her.

It was a moment of weakness, and frustration, and guilt, and misery and I mispoke. Doesn't forgive it, but you asked why and I have explained.

You assumed they( including Zoe Quinn) wouldn't help you, because you are a white male. That was an attack. You furthermore stated her and Anita's roles are nothing but being props, preventing actual progress. Incredible harmful nonsense. They are humans not props. Zoe Quinn was the original target of #Gamergate , which resulted in the spread of nudes, death threats connected to her adress, wrong accusiations and many more things. Sarkeesian wants progress. Gamers, esp probably women, around the world gave her money to speak out. To point out harmful betrayal of women.

The result of Gamergate has been so far that 3 women left the industry.

 

[boogie2988]

*high fives* Okay everyone, let's wrap this up. Sounds like we've reached agreement; no more need for GamerGate, no more harassment, no more hashtags, no more corruption, lets just respect one another, have more good female and minority roles in games, have better writing in games, be honest and impartial with headlines and reporting, not condescend to our audiences, disclose everything, have respect, be more kind, love each other, and play vidya. Alright? Alright! We good! Bam!

..Oh, if only it weren't just a dream.


I have a dream...

I am sincerely dying for that day. Like literally dying. I broke my diet for the first time tonight. I ate a fried fucking pie. I cried while I ate it.

I'm not sleeping, I'm having heart arythmia, I can't think straight, and I'm just scared shitless and I feel terrible for everyone on all sides of this thing being harmed. I'm constantly second guessing myself and damning myself for the role I'm having in it and that's manifesting in the return of the depression and my compulsive over eating.

I would do literally anything for gamergaters and gaming journalists to try to find some sort of common ground. but its not happening and I know it and I feel I'm letting myself and plenty others down if I don't continue to participate and reminding people to remain civil.

The negative criticisms I've seen in this thread, though warranted, are making me feel evern worse. But I guess I knew that was coming for speaking my mind.

I'm just hoping I survive this at this point. Or maybe I'm hoping I won't. I don't know yet.

But I can't wait until its over to find out.

 

[boogie2988]

The result of Gamergate has been so far that 3 women left the industry.

and obviously, though I can't imagine why I have to say this, I feel terrible for those three women. I also feel just as terrible about any person who has been harmed by this movement, and this leads to my compulsion now to continue to participate to attempt to evoke empathy and sanity in the others participating.

 

[Oersted]

and obviously, though I can't imagine why I have to say this, I feel terrible for those three women. I also feel just as terrible about any person who has been harmed by this movement, and this leads to my compulsion now to continue to participate to attempt to evoke empathy and sanity in the others participating.

Did you guys reach anything else? And what do you want achieve?

 

[boogie2988]

Did you guys reach anything else? And what do you want achieve?

I don't know if they have achieved anything else.

the only thing I want to achieve is to evoke kindness and empathy in everyone involved until this is over.

If the end result is that the gaming industry is changed for the better in one form or another that would be grand. I don't know why I feel I need to say this, but that does not mean "Women being driven out" or anything along those lines. It also does not mean "Zoe quinn is tortured" or anything else.

It simply means that if the gaming industry changes FOR THE BETTER, that would be awesome.

 

[BrassDragon]

I've had to stop following a lot of people, and this whole thing has really soured my opinion of a lot of them. I generally don't even disagree with most of them about most of the issues (or any of them when it comes to the the harassment), but it's such an annoying echo chamber to watch as they just completely stonewall or make mockery of any differing opinion, and smugly pat each other on the back about how right they are and how child-like anyone is that has opposing views.

Ugh, I'm getting too old for this shit. I can't wait until Destiny comes out.

My opinion right there (well except the Destiny part!)

For me the 'scandal' of #gamergate is not the conspiracy theories or the agenda-pushing of both sides but the amazing disdain and lack of perspective/civility that's coming from professionals I used to appreciate. I'm sure they're all righteously angry and provoked yadda yadda yadda but all I see is a non-stop stream of ugliness. Sure, they don't speak for their publications or development teams but damn, it's getting hard to separate their work from their personalities.

I don't really see a way out of this debate: "What do you want to change in games journalism/games development, BE SPECIFIC or I will dismiss you" versus "How do you want us to police our own communities across all these platforms, BE SPECIFIC or I will dismiss you".

I thought we were doing,,, okay? Things that need improving seemed to be moving in the right direction long before I knew who Zoe Quinn was. Genuine missteps by developers, journalists or communities got called out and the whole system appeared to be fairly self-correcting (albeit laggy.)

Is there room for a hopeful perspective on gaming? I don't understand where all the pessimism comes from.

 

[Murdoch]

I am sincerely dying for that day. Like literally dying. I broke my diet for the first time tonight. I ate a fried fucking pie. I cried while I ate it.

I'm not sleeping, I'm having heart arythmia, I can't think straight, and I'm just scared shitless and I feel terrible for everyone on all sides of this thing being harmed. I'm constantly second guessing myself and damning myself for the role I'm having in it and that's manifesting in the return of the depression and my compulsive over eating.

I would do literally anything for gamergaters and gaming journalists to try to find some sort of common ground. but its not happening and I know it and I feel I'm letting myself and plenty others down if I don't continue to participate and reminding people to remain civil.

The negative criticisms I've seen in this thread, though warranted, are making me feel evern worse. But I guess I knew that was coming for speaking my mind.

I'm just hoping I survive this at this point. Or maybe I'm hoping I won't. I don't know yet.

But I can't wait until its over to find out.

There's only so many times you can apologise to people or a select group until you're just repeating yourself chief. I can tell (as well as many others) that your heart is in the right place. Anybody in your position (front and centre in the gaming media) is prone to attack despite how well aligned your halo is. If you focus in on ANY human being for prolonged periods of time they are bound to make mistakes or say something that is disagreeable. People that take things out of context or jump down the throats of others over something that is posted online are the ones to blame in all this. Humans make mistakes, it's how we move on that matters.