#GAMERGATE: The Threadening [Read the OP] -- #StopGamerGate2014
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You were with her until the third line of the second paragraph?
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Indeed, feels a bit off topic.
The basic gist of the article seem to be her insisting upon her rights to commentate on and partake in gaming culture, and that people like her will continue to do so regardless of what their opponents say - which I'm all for.
But Jennifer Lawrence seems about as relevant to this whole #gamergate controversy as the Israel/Palestine conflict.
Jennifer Lawrence represents the entirety of the celebrity nude photo leaks, which has many people talking about her and other female celebrities rights to privacy, women's bodies as prize, and the culture of harassment and hate towards women on the internet. In this article it is brought up to paint a picture, alongside the Zoe Quinn bullshit, Sarkeesian's need to go into hiding, and GamerGate, of there being major flair ups about how women are being treated on the internet.
It's a bit more relevant to the discussion than the Israel/Palestine conflict.
Misogyny?
The whole women as ornamentation, treated like a commodity, targeted as part of a Boys' Club's game thing?
ThePlayerofGames
Banned
No, someone's vote is a personal matter they shouldn't be compelled to share with anyone.
Being that militant and demanding you either openly declare yourself a SJW or you will labelled as a hateful misogynist bigot is nothing but fear tactics and doesn't help the issue at all.
Are you using social justice seriously as an insult? You should have read further. If your political conviction results in public available products like a "Kill all Jews" or "Bomb out Afghanistan" games, it isn't just a private matter. That would be only the case if you would make these games available for noone else but yourself.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yeah this has been obvious in every thread about her videos. Like 80% of the time when someone new enters the discussion it pivots back to debunking their idea that she's calling the game itself bad or the people who play them bad people
SquiddyCracker
Banned
See, I disagree with the whole celeb leak thing a couple of weeks ago being motivated by misogyny, it was motivated by lust like any other celeb leak - which makes it an odd tangent to bring up in the current debate.
There is a certain lack of attacks against males.
Squiddy, I don't think the argument is that it is motivated by misogyny, exactly, but rather that the assumptions inherent in the idea that it is okay to do it (steal nude photos and share them without the consent of the people featured) in the first place is misogynistic, and the post-hoc justifications clearly are.
I might have missed a post, but I don't think Oersted meant that it's a public matter in the sense that stuminus has to share how he voted; I thought he meant that it is a public matter in the sense that active participation in the political process can affect the public sphere. For instance, if I were a Californian in 2008, someone who believes that gay marriage is wrong, but doesn't vote for Prop 8 (either abstention or votes against), doesn't affect me. Their personal opinion on that topic only becomes relevant to me when they become engaged in the political process - whether by something as basic as voting, or something more engaged like voter outreach.
I might have missed a post, but I don't think Oersted meant that it's a public matter in the sense that stuminus has to share how he voted; I thought he meant that it is a public matter in the sense that active participation in the political process can affect the public sphere. For instance, if I were a Californian in 2008, someone who believes that gay marriage is wrong, but doesn't vote for Prop 8 (either abstention or votes against), doesn't affect me. Their personal opinion on that topic only becomes relevant to me when they become engaged in the political process - whether by something as basic as voting, or something more engaged like voter outreach.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
I guess I'll just have to disagree and bow out of that particular tangent. While I acnowledge that a large part of the audience exhibit misogynistic tendencies when it comes to celebrity leaks, it seems to me to be wholy seperate continuum of behaviours focused more on the jealousy/adoration/hatred of celebrities as a result of their status as celebrities. I'm guessing that misogyny is brought up as a result of the objectification inherent in viewing leaked pictures.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Well and the selective targeting. I'm sure lots of ladies wonder what Chris Evans looks like nude but hot men always escape these things
I disagree. Though lust definitely plays a role, I think a desire to victimize these women plays an even larger one. Hacking phones for personal nude photos, revenge porn, and creepshots all occupy a weird world where sexual desire and a need to shame and hurt women intermingle, creating an environment of seemingly perpetual harassment for women in general. I think it's highly relevant to the current discussion.
You don't have to agree.
But you say you were with her up to this point...
Theres a culture war happening right now. Its happening in games, in film, in journalism, in television, in fiction, in fandom. Its happening online, everywhere. And everywhere, sexists, recreational misogynists and bigots are losing.
They are losing, and they dont know why.
Ive been thinking a lot, this week and last week, about what it is thats changing in culture, about what women are doing, and what is being done to us in revenge. Ive been thinking about what happened to Jennifer Lawrence; about ----------
...at which point she lost you. That just comes across as unwilling to, I don't know, apply yourself to what's being said (an intro to a personal train of thought encompassing the wider landscape). If anything, the fact it gave you pause for thought could have been a point of interest from which to challenge your own perspective.
========
On the "you can't escape it being political" topic, this is relevant: http://midnightresistance.co.uk/articles/game-design-always-political-im-not-even-exaggerating-here
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...ublisher-Issues-Public-Statement-on-Gamergate
A good read for everyone.
The best bit is on page 5.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...lisher-Issues-Public-Statement-on-Gamergate.5
This is the end game of gamergate not getting women out of gaming or conspiracy theories but accountability! If all publications are willing to adhere to those ethics, this will end finally.
A good read for everyone.
The best bit is on page 5.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...lisher-Issues-Public-Statement-on-Gamergate.5
This is the end game of gamergate not getting women out of gaming or conspiracy theories but accountability! If all publications are willing to adhere to those ethics, this will end finally.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
That sounds good to me, #Gamergate has achieved something at least.
Yep. The origin of the "debate" was that someone posted that a game with predominately white, hetero males is a political choice. In respond to that, someone posted that politicial convictions are a private matter and therefore nothing to be discussed. Then I tried to state the obvious that, while a vote is indeed secret (and I'm the last one who wants to change that), the outcome of a ballot is of course not secret anymore. Political choices expressed in books/speeches/movies/videogames are of course not in secret/private anymore. They are public and open for debate.
Further to my above comment, and because I forgot to include it, the Laurie Penny blogpiece does take the effort to contextualise its mention of the nude leaks scandal by hyperlinking directly to this article. If the mention of Jennifer Lawrence is puzzling, it's not too much effort to then click on her name and note that it takes you to an article -- 'Inside AnonIB, Where Hacking Is a Sport and Womens Bodies Are the Prize' -- with several clear parallels to the females-in-gaming aspect of this discussion.
poorlonelycomputer
Member
Yep, politics and voting aren't the same thing.
poorlonelycomputer
Member
These absolutely are political issues in the sense that I'm using the words. Sex, race, gender, etc. may not be electoral issues but they are certainly political. We can call them ideological issues instead if you prefer. I do agree that they're not necessarily partisan issues...though the backlash against "SJW" is definitely partisan at least in part (otherwise Breitbart.com wouldn't have gotten involved).
Oops, I've been caught red-handed, or red-lined, whatever. 
I guess I am in on a conspiracy. News to me.
https://twitter.com/Battle_A/status/508399030800777216/photo/1
I wonder if he even read the rest of that post in his haste to bust out the digital highlighter.
==================
Another personal blogpiece, I Don't know Why I Care About #GamerGate, this one from Tadhg Kelly:
It bothers me to watch hard-working contributors suffer the onslaught of the frustrated. It rankles me to watch the couch-borne deign to sit in judgment of people who work 16-hour days for years. It makes me seethe to see those who know nothing of the industry sanctimoniously accuse insiders of not living up to their morality. It enrages me to see consumers form blacklists and issue their promises to ruin careers and worse. It turns my stomach to watch so much energy being poured into a cause whose inevitable conclusion is obscurity, alienation and a souring of the will to make games. And it galls me to watch cowardly death threats issued from anonymity denied as further proof of conspiracy.
[...]
I’d wish you luck gamergaters, but that would be insincere. Instead I wish your reality check comes swiftly and that you do something more valuable with all that energy than bitch. Something less ignominious, something less acidic. I hope you learn to contribute, to add rather than subtract. I hope you eventually realize that your reasons for feeling as you do have little to do with games or the gaming media, and more about where you’re at in life. I hope you grow and learn to appreciate this world where people give you almost everything you could ever want for free and work harder than you know just to make you smile.
I guess I am in on a conspiracy. News to me.
https://twitter.com/Battle_A/status/508399030800777216/photo/1
I wonder if he even read the rest of that post in his haste to bust out the digital highlighter.
==================
Another personal blogpiece, I Don't know Why I Care About #GamerGate, this one from Tadhg Kelly:
It bothers me to watch hard-working contributors suffer the onslaught of the frustrated. It rankles me to watch the couch-borne deign to sit in judgment of people who work 16-hour days for years. It makes me seethe to see those who know nothing of the industry sanctimoniously accuse insiders of not living up to their morality. It enrages me to see consumers form blacklists and issue their promises to ruin careers and worse. It turns my stomach to watch so much energy being poured into a cause whose inevitable conclusion is obscurity, alienation and a souring of the will to make games. And it galls me to watch cowardly death threats issued from anonymity denied as further proof of conspiracy.
[...]
I’d wish you luck gamergaters, but that would be insincere. Instead I wish your reality check comes swiftly and that you do something more valuable with all that energy than bitch. Something less ignominious, something less acidic. I hope you learn to contribute, to add rather than subtract. I hope you eventually realize that your reasons for feeling as you do have little to do with games or the gaming media, and more about where you’re at in life. I hope you grow and learn to appreciate this world where people give you almost everything you could ever want for free and work harder than you know just to make you smile.
I love the answer :Oops, I've been caught red-handed, or red-lined, whatever.
https://twitter.com/Battle_A/status/508399030800777216/photo/1
I wonder if he even read the rest of that post in his haste to bust out the digital highlighter.
In retrospect, 'dilute' was entirely the wrong choice of word on my part, huh?
Any amount of the well-intentioned and reasonable ethics discussion choosing to migrate over to the #gameethics tag wouldn't result in a dilution of #gamergate at all, rather it would result in a concentration of what was left (ie. suspiciously targeted vitriol and a whole bunch of unfortunate, misplaced identity crises).
Any amount of the well-intentioned and reasonable ethics discussion choosing to migrate over to the #gameethics tag wouldn't result in a dilution of #gamergate at all, rather it would result in a concentration of what was left (ie. suspiciously targeted vitriol and a whole bunch of unfortunate, misplaced identity crises).
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Having looked at a lot of #gamertag tweets, I'd be all for a migration to the #gameethics.
RicoTheMad
Banned
I was born and raised in South America. I came to the US as a legal immigrant and spent 15 years getting my citizenship on my own. I've dealt with all the racism and hardship under the sun here in America. And you know what my stance is on all of this?
I would rather have nobody on my side than a bunch of hate-mongering, insult flinging, set of individuals who currently espouse it. I have no doubt perhaps some of them have good in their hearts, but I also know that a lot of them push these issues forward to further their own economical/egotistical agendas, and as a minority group, I resent them using my struggles, and other people's struggles and hardships, to make a buck or get an Click on their page. That to me, is even worse a feeling than someone calling me some racial slur or asking me if I speak Mexican for the 200th time, or not letting me into their house because of my nationality, or washing something after I touch it because they perhaps feel I've "made it dirty". Because at least in that situation I can brush it off and say "they're just ignorant, they don't know any better".
But these people do know better, they are using it as a *banner* FFS, yet they use me and others to get E-fame, clicks on articles, and pity from others for themselves. People are trying to use feminism and racism as a shield to hide behind and avoid the tough questions some people are asking them to answer. This is what is truly insulting and hurtful to me and I'm sure others. This is also I believe the origin behind the #NotYourShield hashtag.
Even assuming that *all* of these people's hearts are in the right place...
Hate and insults do not drive society forward, they just make people feel attacked and get defensive, which causes them to redouble their stance on the matter. It takes a fool not to look back at history and see that the civil rights movements in the past have been driven forward not by the groups espousing hatred and division-ism, but by the people who embrace fellow humans instead of dividing them into nice little groups, some of which you hate and some of which are "on your side"
I mean FFS, do you really not see that the people claiming to be defending human rights, when you divide people into buckets and make generalizations about groups of people you don't know anything about, you are actually behaving as the evil you claim you are trying to fight??
This is why you address people individually, you do not make assumptions, you do not bring race, sex, or religious belief into it. It's ok to think some individuals are assholes. It is not ok for you to call out whole groups of people and make generalizations and assumptions. That's you being racist/sexist. Period. It is no better than the people who spew ethnic slurs.
I would rather have nobody on my side than a bunch of hate-mongering, insult flinging, set of individuals who currently espouse it. I have no doubt perhaps some of them have good in their hearts, but I also know that a lot of them push these issues forward to further their own economical/egotistical agendas, and as a minority group, I resent them using my struggles, and other people's struggles and hardships, to make a buck or get an Click on their page. That to me, is even worse a feeling than someone calling me some racial slur or asking me if I speak Mexican for the 200th time, or not letting me into their house because of my nationality, or washing something after I touch it because they perhaps feel I've "made it dirty". Because at least in that situation I can brush it off and say "they're just ignorant, they don't know any better".
But these people do know better, they are using it as a *banner* FFS, yet they use me and others to get E-fame, clicks on articles, and pity from others for themselves. People are trying to use feminism and racism as a shield to hide behind and avoid the tough questions some people are asking them to answer. This is what is truly insulting and hurtful to me and I'm sure others. This is also I believe the origin behind the #NotYourShield hashtag.
Even assuming that *all* of these people's hearts are in the right place...
Hate and insults do not drive society forward, they just make people feel attacked and get defensive, which causes them to redouble their stance on the matter. It takes a fool not to look back at history and see that the civil rights movements in the past have been driven forward not by the groups espousing hatred and division-ism, but by the people who embrace fellow humans instead of dividing them into nice little groups, some of which you hate and some of which are "on your side"
I mean FFS, do you really not see that the people claiming to be defending human rights, when you divide people into buckets and make generalizations about groups of people you don't know anything about, you are actually behaving as the evil you claim you are trying to fight??
This is why you address people individually, you do not make assumptions, you do not bring race, sex, or religious belief into it. It's ok to think some individuals are assholes. It is not ok for you to call out whole groups of people and make generalizations and assumptions. That's you being racist/sexist. Period. It is no better than the people who spew ethnic slurs.
I think the journalists were only ever calling out people who responded with death and rape threats. These people have responded like that for over two years.
Those individuals make up a group of people who have influence and are enabled by many many others who are okay with these people. That's a problem. Also, if only .44% of articles ever bring up women...that doesn't really seem like something to have an uprising over. Who cares if someone makes a comment on how butt backwards our games are with female representation? They're not exactly wrong with those judgements. Is it really that condemnable of a critique? If we want to move gaming in many directions instead of just one, then it's actually a good thing to point out what the hard sellers are selling. You don't have to agree with a critique...in fact I rarely agree with most critics. So why would you get so fed up as to try to silence them or push the critique away?
Not just for feminism either...Why attack reviewers when they rate a big title under a 9? (I know why, because I've ranted about reviewers for giving low scores too.) If we want to see games get better, and journalism get better...it's us we need to fix. Not them. We're so freakin' passionate, we're ready to kill someone over an 8.8. Honestly, we are acting like babies. I am a gamer and I act like a baby too, because this is my passion. But I can at least look back and say "Yeah...I overreacted..." after the rage in me settles.
Also...
Why do you care if people are getting paid to write things you don't like? Have you heard of Piss Christ? An artist was paid $20,000 tax payer dollars to pee in a cup, put Jesus in it and take a picture. Was it a big deal? No...unless you were having a hissy fit over tax payer dollars being used on something you didn't like.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The piece is super well written. Probably the best written piece I've seen honestly. But I have my doubts about the bolded
The #notyourshield thing is super confusing to me, if only by virtue of its actual message within this particular marriage. I feel like I understand the hashtag's message itself, just not its relevance to the #gg thing. If anyone can plainly outline the link between it and #gamergate that would be awesome.
I'm aware of the IRC astroturfing and smurfing aspect of it, I'm obviously aware that being a minority doesn't negate also being a total dick, but outside of those factors I assume there are other legitimate parties involved and they're genuinely upset at something. I honestly am not sure anymore what the cause for upset is though. I genuinely don't see why the two hashtags are so often paired together.
I assume the outcry isn't still railing against the other week's slew of '"gamer"-is-dead' type articles, right? I thought the basis of those was by now pretty well understood.
I'm aware of the IRC astroturfing and smurfing aspect of it, I'm obviously aware that being a minority doesn't negate also being a total dick, but outside of those factors I assume there are other legitimate parties involved and they're genuinely upset at something. I honestly am not sure anymore what the cause for upset is though. I genuinely don't see why the two hashtags are so often paired together.
I assume the outcry isn't still railing against the other week's slew of '"gamer"-is-dead' type articles, right? I thought the basis of those was by now pretty well understood.
There are people of all colors who don't want any social critique in games media.
That's pretty much it. Growing pains...right?
gollumsluvslave
Member
One of the things I find strangest about this whole thing is the identifying oneself as a 'gamer' - I can't say I've ever done so, and I've played and loved games all my life, since the Commodore 64 - I'm now 40. I'm also passionate about music, books, football (soccer), as I suspect the vast majority of people who play videogames are and haven't termed myself anything related to those areas (if even such terms exist)
I always liked to play games, but never really understood 'gamer' as being a videogames specific term until a the advent of online gaming (specifically multiplayer gaming on Xbox Live etc), but I've always interpreted the term 'gamer' as an abbreviation with 'hardcore gamer' and even most recently have seen it being used as a synonym to the 'dudebro' term. I suppose the introduction of terms such as 'Gamertag' didn't help either.
As someone who was bummed out on multiplayer gaming years ago, mostly due to Xbox Live being a cesspit of slurs, insults and general troglodyte behaviour (unless you could form your own group of real-life friends), and have since then reverted back to single-player only games.
I don't mind admitting I love games and play them a lot (not nearly as much as I used to), I don't think I've ever referred to myself as a 'gamer', and certainly today I personally see it as having negative connotations...
I'm old tho so hey ho...
My 2c
I always liked to play games, but never really understood 'gamer' as being a videogames specific term until a the advent of online gaming (specifically multiplayer gaming on Xbox Live etc), but I've always interpreted the term 'gamer' as an abbreviation with 'hardcore gamer' and even most recently have seen it being used as a synonym to the 'dudebro' term. I suppose the introduction of terms such as 'Gamertag' didn't help either.
As someone who was bummed out on multiplayer gaming years ago, mostly due to Xbox Live being a cesspit of slurs, insults and general troglodyte behaviour (unless you could form your own group of real-life friends), and have since then reverted back to single-player only games.
I don't mind admitting I love games and play them a lot (not nearly as much as I used to), I don't think I've ever referred to myself as a 'gamer', and certainly today I personally see it as having negative connotations...
I'm old tho so hey ho...
My 2c
That's what it seems to be about, in the end.
These are the same people who hate indie games and put quotes around "game" when talking about Gone Home.
It's mostly about removing any kind of social pressure for progress in video games and has nothing to do with corruption.
I don't think there's any problem identifying as a gamer, it's sort of an accurate word based on all the rules of language that I'm aware of.
I do think it's unfortunate if someone can't note a useful difference between gamers and "gamers".
EDIT: the above in response to gollum.
I do think it's unfortunate if someone can't note a useful difference between gamers and "gamers".
EDIT: the above in response to gollum.
ThePlayerofGames
Banned
No, I'm not using it as an insult, I used the acronym because it's easier to type.
This is exactly why I can't take this movement seriously.
People like you jump on *anything* and construe it as an insult.
I agree with bigmf - Politics are nobody's business but their own. I am also not from the U.S.
Yours is a uniquely american perspective and you browbeating and haranguing people for not agreeing with you does not help your perspective or your movement at all.
Moon_frogger
Member
I know it's untrue because we can gage it by looking at anything else that isn't an anonymous cesspool like twitter. Look at republican politics. Look at any spectrum of life that doesn't involve anonymous social interaction. There's nothing to debate here. Prejudice is everywhere. It's not something you grow out of. It's something that becomes more firmly entrenched as you get older. I don't even have to defend my point. Get off twitter and go outside if you want to see where misogyny comes from. Get back to me when you have some evidence that it's primarily white young uneducated males.
Yeah. I'll continue to call myself a gamer.
Though, apparently I can't call myself a girl gamer because that word is completely trashed...
It makes me sad. =/
That's what it seems to be about, in the end.
These are the same people who hate indie games and put quotes around "game" when talking about Gone Home.
It's mostly about removing any kind of social pressure for progress in video games and has nothing to do with corruption.
I don't know man...
I kind of don't want that to be true. There's so many of them, they can't all be that stagnant can they? I was hoping there was some big dickish press move I wasn't aware of, or simply a misunderstanding over some perceived-to-be-dickish press move. But the whole #NYS tag standing for outright considered rejection of more varied video game themes, and the discussions thereof? I don't know man. There's gotta be more to it than that.
I don't know man...
I kind of don't want that to be true. There's so many of them, they can't all be that stagnant can they? I was hoping there was some big dickish press move I wasn't aware of, or simply a misunderstanding over some perceived-to-be-dickish press move. But the whole #NYS tag standing for outright considered rejection of more varied video game themes, and the discussions thereof? I don't know man. There's gotta be more to it than that.
Well...They see the social critique as censorship. They think it's something that will make developers fearful. They see it as a threat to "artistic freedom."
Of course...there's a big difference between critique and calls for censorship. I think some of the journalists have called for something like censorship, but most haven't. Some are just plainly critiquing it or pointing it out. Gamergate wants to censor social critique of games because it really scares them. That fear drives their anger. Those following gamergate feel as though they've been attacked and now they need to respond.
That's pretty much all there is to it.
I don't know man...
I kind of don't want that to be true. There's so many of them, they can't all be that stagnant can they? I was hoping there was some big dickish press move I wasn't aware of, or simply a misunderstanding over some perceived-to-be-dickish press move. But the whole #NYS tag standing for outright considered rejection of more varied video game themes, and the discussions thereof? I don't know man. There's gotta be more to it than that.
Oh, there's genuine concern mixed in. But every time I get into a discussion with one of the people on the hashtag feed it ends up with them detailing a SJW conspiracy. I compiled a list of tweets over an hour that within the hashtag that contained either conspiracy minded attacks on "SJWs" or outright misogyny and it's quite a big list.
I cannot get them to nail down specific philsophic goals behind the movement besides one of 2 things:
Ending corruption
Ending SJW influence
And those two usually go hand in hand according to them. This isn't some moral outrage as I hoped it would be... it's just the same old anti-progressive shit we've always dealt with taken new form.
SpacedCadette
Member
This thread has blown up a bit since I last read it so I may have missed the discussions about the term 'gamer' and why some people are motivated to hang on to the term as a form of identity, but if anyone would be willing to explain their position on identifying as a 'gamer' and what that means to them I'd be very interested to hear it.
Edit : feel free to message me the response as well as I feel like this thread has gone down a separate path towards the SJW and ethics stuff and less about the gamer identifier.
Edit : feel free to message me the response as well as I feel like this thread has gone down a separate path towards the SJW and ethics stuff and less about the gamer identifier.
Yeah, it's weird how that "term" has been transformed into something negative when ultimately it was nothing more than a way to refer to people that love games not unlike terms such as book-worms, movie buffs, and the like. I don't really consider myself any of those things but I wouldn't find the use of them insulting.
I love all of those things but things related to gaming is my favorite of the bunch. Though, I genuinely dislike playing online games with anyone but good friends due to my distaste for typical online behavior. Thinking about it like that perhaps that IS part of the problem then. Too many people act terrible towards others when playing online. It's not just the sexism issues being discussed here either; these people are cruel towards anyone and everyone. Look at stuff like swatting. Those people target whomever they want for reasons that are unclear.
So, thinking about the whole thing, I do believe the problem goes FAR deeper than the treatment of women. It's the treatment of human beings in general that's the problem. It's a growing issue with the way communication and interaction on the internet works. People that insult women using sexist words likely select those words simply because they are insulting. If they were acting like an asshole towards a black guy they'd probably use racial slurs and, hell, people throw the same types of slurs and insults are white guys too.
Women definitely seem to get MORE hate, though, but it does seem like those same people would act similarly vile against anyone.
They've certainly kept me from ever really being able to enjoy online games and many of the other internet related gaming activities. I'm not even sure what can be done about this type of behavior as nobody is held accountable.
Out of interest then, what sort of examples are #NYSers citing in the press and media?
I assume Sarkeesian is one, and I'm quite happy with how I feel about her work.
But are there any specific examples of actually shitty shit which really support their ire? I've trawled the hashtag itself and that's (tellingly?) no use whatsoever at this point. Like, I just want to see one example of a piece of media coverage that demonstrates something ugly. Not a personal account of someone's feelings, a citable example of the media using a minority as a shield, in any sense of the expression. It's hard to find ways to empathise with their anger unless I can see what exactly they're angry at. Which is to say, again, I'm assuming there's something legitimate somewhere that they're angry at. If the truth of the matter is that they're just, as one entity, railing against turning seasons then I guess that... well, that's just what it is. And yeah, moving swiftly on.
I assume Sarkeesian is one, and I'm quite happy with how I feel about her work.
But are there any specific examples of actually shitty shit which really support their ire? I've trawled the hashtag itself and that's (tellingly?) no use whatsoever at this point. Like, I just want to see one example of a piece of media coverage that demonstrates something ugly. Not a personal account of someone's feelings, a citable example of the media using a minority as a shield, in any sense of the expression. It's hard to find ways to empathise with their anger unless I can see what exactly they're angry at. Which is to say, again, I'm assuming there's something legitimate somewhere that they're angry at. If the truth of the matter is that they're just, as one entity, railing against turning seasons then I guess that... well, that's just what it is. And yeah, moving swiftly on.
RicoTheMad
Banned
The problem isn't gaming being free/full of social agendas, its the fact that for the last year or two, the *only* social agenda being pushed is women in gaming. Where's the articles about racial and ethnic discrimination in games and the games industry? That's a problem that affects *all sexes* yet, it has received little to no coverage.
That's beyond ridiculous and I have a big problem with it. I have no issue with women in games being brought up, but I do take issue when its brought up over and over by every publication in an orchestrated manner all the while ignoring the other issues we face in the industry. It shows someone has an agenda they are trying to push. I don't like organizations using mine, or other's social plights, to further whatever their ulterior motive may be.
The conversation should be *diversity in games* not just *women in games*
Diversity means variety of sex, race, culture and sexual orientation. Why is media hyper focusing on sex? Because sex sells better than the other ones. Clicks. Profit. Yeah.
I play games. I'm passionate about games. I get defensive and angry and cry like a baby when someone insults or harms my favorite games. I am definitely a gamer. However, I see no threat in having social commentary with games. I only see that as something that will make us smarter and more open. A big reason for that is because I don't really like games like GTA or any game about cool masculine empowerment. I don't feel it's an important part of games. I am a female...so I don't play games to feel like a man. I usually play games because they make me happy and I enjoy game mechanics and world building and lore.
I don't use the term girl gamer because I realize there's a lot of misogynistic labeling that goes along with it. If I call myself a girl gamer then I have to carry the connotations of being an attention whore and someone who is slutty and plays games for sexual attention from boys and men. That is hilariously stupid and deeply rooted in sexist feelings. But it's something I'd rather not touch with a 10 foot pole. I don't think I want to debate whether I play games because I play games for real or for attention. In all honesty, I love games a lot more than I like guys. So I'm not going to use that to define myself until someone reclaims the word and cleans up all the sexist connotations that go along with it. The whole "gamer" label is often used to say women aren't real gamers because they're all fake/doing it for attention. Because people use gamer in that way...I think it's fair, and really funny, to use it against "gamers" as a way of saying they are extremely sexist and boy's club-y. Because it's true. It's really really true. In order for me to feel accepted I have to pretend I'm a boy...basically.
poorlonelycomputer
Member
This reverse American exceptionalism thing always gets me. Many European countries are, if anything, much more overtly political than the US.
poorlonelycomputer
Member
There are plenty of articles, etc. about racial diversity in games. They go over about as well as the women in games one, albeit with less rape threats. Women in games has been a special issue probably because of the virulence of backlash directed against women.
It's the exact same word. I don't think it's anyone's responsibility to know the difference between some gamers and other gamers considering there's no useful way of differentiating them when using that kind of terminology. When referring to the more insufferable types, I thought "dudebro" did the job just fine.
I call myself a gamer because I play games and I see it as a useful, convenient way of identifying my hobby. I'm open to alternate descriptions as well (such as "player" or something) but they're usually either too vague or not recognizable enough. I never thought it defined me as an entire person and I'm not sure it was ever used for that purpose, despite the claims of certain journalists.
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