Support NeoGAF

[DECK'ARD]

Oriental isn't offensive in the UK (where he's from) although his refusal to apologise or cease using the term when you claim insult is just him being a cunt.

He said that was the word he was brought up with, which is correct and isn't racist in the UK.

If OP has then gone "Well things are different over here" instead of "That's the excuse racists use when they say the word nigger" maybe the outcome would have been very different.

OP was even aware there might be a cultural difference but dived right in to escalating it.

Both are at fault.

 

[Mineshaft_Gap]

And black people can I'm sure relate to white people espousing all their favorite "black" things when they meet a white person. It's a similar shade of racism to the "Where are you from?" sort.

That Joe Louis was a hell of a boxer. Stevie Wonder, now there's a talent! My favorite actor? Well since you asked, Morgan Freedman or Denzel Washington.

 

[Mineshaft_Gap]

And if you bother to tell them that shit isn't cool, then they're offended you didn't like it.

It's fucking gross behavior.

I think I've lucked out by attending college in a school predominantly filled with minorities. Nobody likes that creepy shit here.

Sorry you have to deal with that.

I go to a major university. Tons of Asians here.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I do this a lot, but I'm actually interested where people are from and their background. Now I wonder if it's some racist tendency I'm not aware of. Last time I asked I got a kind of weird look.

People who tend to get asked questions like that tend to get it a LOT, and sometimes it is with the assumption that they must be from some strange land because they look different or have more melanin. A lot depends on the situation as well, i.e. how natural it might be to get asked, how comfortable they feel with the asker, etc.

For everyone expressing disbelief at oriental being offensive in America, we have teams of people who work very hard to assign malice to all words. You may have heard of "SJWs," also known as Social Justice Warriors. They toil endlessly to reduce the number of words you can say through smear campaigns against innocents like Stormfront, r/ferguson, and other bastions of free speech.

He said that was the word he was brought up with, which is correct and isn't racist in the UK.

If OP has then gone "Well things are different over here" instead of "That's the excuse racists use when they say the word nigger" maybe the outcome would have been very different.

OP was even aware there might be a cultural difference but dived right in to escalating it.

Both are at fault.

It is the excuse that racist use (well, older racist who bother to give an excuse), so the OP wasn't wrong/

People can be as ignorant as they want, but other people can also react to that ignorance as they see fit.

 

[Colin.]

Oriental isn't offensive in the UK (where he's from) although his refusal to apologise or cease using the term when you claim insult is just him being a cunt.

It's a word I've rarely heard used in the UK, especially to describe a persons race. It's a really outdated term that isn't suitable to describe someone's ethnicity. It's the Asian equivalent of "coloured"

 

[Infinite]

He said that was the word he was brought up with, which is correct and isn't racist in the UK.

If OP has then gone "Well things are different over here" instead of "That's the excuse racists use when they say the word nigger" maybe the outcome would have been very different.

OP was even aware there might be a cultural difference but dived right in to escalating it.

Both are at fault.

This makes no flipping sense. If you call me something I don't like I'm gonna to ask that you not do that. I'm not going to say things like "well you may call your friends that where you're from but around here..." as I do not need to do that.

 

[Camp Lo]

I've never knowingly had a conversation with a racist about race and I hope I never will; that shit seems hella awkward, like how the fuck you gonna tell me what is offensive to people like me

 

[ishibear]

I go to a major university. Tons of Asians here.

They call you exotic?

 

[MIMIC]

A long time ago, I asked two of my friends (Vietnamese-American and Chinese-American) if they thought the word "oriental" was offensive and they said no....which was strange because I just always assumed that it was.

I'd never use it to describe anyone of Asian descent because--as odd as this may sound--it just sounds offensive to me (probably because so many OBJECTS can be described as oriental and using the same descriptors for a person just doesn't sound right....like the "exotic" thread from a little while ago)

 

[No Love]

I go to a major university. Tons of Asians here.

What university? UC Irvine near me is Asian heaven. Lots of cute Asian girls there.

 

[BocoDragon]

It occurs to me that "Caucasian" is more of a misnomer than "Oriental".

Oriental means East, and considering that we still today consider Asia to be the East part of the globe (a fiction though it is), it's not inherently wrong.

But white European peoples do not actually have their roots near the Caucasus mountains.

If white people were not in a position of power.. I'm certain we'd start finding the word offensive.

 

[Enzom21]

OP you'd be surprised at how many people on neogaf that don't know oriental is an outdated term referring to asians.

A lot of those people are posting in this thread.

The United Negro College Fund still uses the word.

http://www.uncf.org/

It was also on the last census questionnaire, but it is an extremely antiquated and offensive term.

 

[EightBitNate]

Is "oriental" like "negro"?

Edit: I see it's being discussed

 

[Kimaka]

Yet the word is still on the website. I figured it would have been completely omitted.

Used to refer to the organization, which they are trying to phase out, not black people.

 

[CountAntonius]

Haha, I've been called exotic. Lots of times. People think it's a compliment.

"You're so pretty in an exotic way!"

And I'm like. Hey buddy... fuck you!

Because to a lot of people it is. Especially latin americans. In that thread we learned that Asians take offense to that word and many latins take it as a high compliment. It can be confusing to people who just don't know any better.

The father in the OP should have have learned something new that day and been more understanding rather than arguing.

 

[DECK'ARD]

This makes no flipping sense. If you call me something I don't like I'm gonna to ask that you not do that. I'm not going to say things like "well you may call your friends that where you're from but around here..." as I do not need to do that.

That wasn't what I said at all.

 

[Tagyhag]

I'm Asian, and Oriental doesn't bother me at all, I guess it depends on the person.

 

[BocoDragon]

Is "oriental" like "negro"?

I would say so. The accepted term for a long time. Not inherently a slur. But we just got tired of it and moved to a different term probably to just hit the reset button on race relations.

 

[Josh with a J]

What university? UC Irvine near me is Asian heaven. Lots of cute Asian girls there.

The Nova area I live in is pretty much the same way.

Also, is it common for Asians born in America to not get along with Asians born elsewhere? I notice some of my friends seem to be assholes about it.

 

[Mineshaft_Gap]

I'm Asian, and Oriental doesn't bother me at all, I guess it depends on the person.

I think I was probably more primed to react than usual since he hit me with the double tap. Oriental+Probing to find out my ethnic background.

 

[thefit]

It's a word I've rarely heard used in the UK, especially to describe a persons race. It's a really outdated term that isn't suitable to describe someone's ethnicity. It's the Asian equivalent of "coloured"

Yeah this. Its an antiquated term that is up there with "colored" and "negro" and when someone uses those terms they just seem out of touch and old and unwilling to change. Its why its a bit of a shock to hear someone reach back to those old terms.

 

[Infinite]

That wasn't what I said at all.

That's essentially what it comes down too. The only thing OP owed the man was the benefit of the doubt and a polite explanation. He gave him both.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Oriental in the UK means East Asian.

It's outdated and not in common use but wasn't a slur. He was surprised it was, learnt it could be offensive, and said that was the word he grew up with.

Instead of further educating him he's branded racist and told he's making excuses and just called the OP the equivalent of nigger. I'm not surprised he got pissed off at that leap.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Words aren't racist, it's the intent behind them. But there really is no comparing it on any level to "nigger" and that's probably why shit really got heated because they're not even in the same ball park, hell not even the same sport. People really don't like accusations of being racist or having any association with that word.

Where do you live that people still use the term negro? And why are you using it?

Plenty of people born in the 50s and earlier still use the terms negro, colored or mulatto along with oriental without ill intent and being aware that they're now outdated terms that have become potentially offensive.

 

[Mineshaft_Gap]

It's a word I've rarely heard used in the UK, especially to describe a persons race. It's a really outdated term that isn't suitable to describe someone's ethnicity. It's the Asian equivalent of "coloured"

That's not how you spell "colored," you tea swilling crumpet muncher!

 

[No Love]

The Nova area I live in is pretty much the same way.

Also, is it common for Asians born in America to not get along with Asians born elsewhere? I notice some of my friends seem to be assholes about it.

Yes... Asians born in America often look down on immigrating Asians (in my experience; they refer to them as "FOB's"), which I always found to be odd.

 

[Sketchbag]

Is "oriental" like "negro"?

Edit: I see it's being discussed

I wouldn't put it on the same level as "negro" or "colored". One was specifically designed to differentiate and make you feel lesser while the other is really just to describe the East.

Universities changed "Oriental Studies" to "Asian Studies *" with specific regions as one couldn't be all encompassing. Some universities changed it due to a more political correctness atmosphere by a growing Asian staff. Furthermore, "Asian" is following a similar route in terms of political correctness in some environments.

 

[Josh with a J]

^ Ahhh that's the word they use. I couldn't remember it for the life of me. Also, strange.

 

[Erico]

i assume OP is of chinese/japan/korean descent?
i am chinese, and i don't think oriental is offensive at all

I'm Asian, and Oriental doesn't bother me at all, I guess it depends on the person.

How do you guys feel about Chinaman?

 

[Jmanunknown]

Why is it considered an offensive term? I'd love to know the history behind it.

.

Here is a a decent article on why it is considered offensive.


http://racerelations.about.com/od/understandingrac1/a/racialnamestoavoid.htm

 

[Tagyhag]

How do you guys feel about Chinaman?

If it's used with a derogatory connotation or to identify someone who's Asian without even knowing their actual nationality then it's fucked up.

If it's used to identify someone who's Chinese like Englishman or Frenchman and they don't mind, then I don't mind.

 

[EmiPrime]

That's essentially what it comes down too. The only thing OP owed the man was the benefit of the doubt and a polite explanation. He gave him both.

Polite? He compared use of the word oriental (again, not a slur in the UK) to the n word (has always been universally a slur in all English speaking countries) which is dishonest and inflammatory.

 

[EmptySpace]

How do you guys feel about Chinaman?

funny i just read wikipedia and just saw how irishman, frenchman, englishman do not sound offensive.

apparently chinaman was the same type of word but of course, inappropriate use made it racist yet again.

 

[Surface of Me]

I wouldn't put it on the same level as "negro" or "colored". One was specifically designed to differentiate and make you feel lesser while the other is really just to describe the East.

Universities changed "Oriental Studies" to "Asian Studies *" with specific regions as one couldn't be all encompassing. Some universities changed it due to a more political correctness atmosphere by a growing Asian staff. Furthermore, "Asian" is following a similar route in terms of political correctness in some environments.

Wait are you saying "Asian" is on the road to being an offensive term to some? I dont believe you.

 

[Infinite]

Polite? He compared use of the word oriental (again, not a slur in the UK) to the n word (has always been universally a slur in all English speaking countries) which is dishonest and inflammatory.

Did you read the op or did you skip the part where he even let the word slide a couple of times but then finally corrected by simply saying you shouldn't refer to an Asian person with that word. Dude felt some kinda way and doubled down afterwards.

 

[akira28]

Polite? He compared use of the word oriental (again, not a slur in the UK) to the n word (has always been universally a slur in all English speaking countries) which is dishonest and inflammatory.

It's not dishonest. And if it's inflammatory, then someone has a problem, and it wouldn't be the person being called "oriental" like a rug.

the correct and polite way to react would have been "oh, I'm sorry to have offended you." not doubling down and pulling out the cellphone to google search and prove your own damn self wrong. and then get mad over it. wonder what other words he "grew up with" that he's reluctant to give up.

 

[EmiPrime]

Did you read the op or did you skip the part where he even let the word slide a couple of times but then finally corrected by simply saying you shouldn't refer to an Asian person with that word. Dude felt some kinda way and doubled down afterwards.

The roommate's father was a jerk. No argument there.

the correct and polite way to react would have been "oh, I'm sorry to have offended you." not doubling down and pulling out the cellphone to google search and prove your own damn self wrong. and then get mad over it.

Agree 100%. He should have apologised, maybe explained the cultural difference and moved on.

 

[Sketchbag]

Wait are you saying "Asian" is on the road to being an offensive term to some? I dont believe you.

Well, it is essentially the same word as Oriental it just encompasses like China, Korea, Japan, Thailand, Indonesia, etc. Excludes things like the Middle East and what not. It is on the same road essentially. Oriental was as harmless as they come. We already see it with people who dislike being identified as "Asian-X". This will eventually grow. It's not political correctness, it's just a shuffling around of words people perceive to be offensive and getting a new one.

 

[Nephtis]

How do you guys feel about Chinaman?

How is that even relevant to the conversation?

"Chinaman" has a much different connotation than "oriental". Putting the word "oriental" in the same category as "negro" is also in a different category. Calling all black people "African" is more apt and even then it's a bit of a stretch.

Anyway, oriental is a word a lot of us grew up with. In Mexico, we call people from Asia "orientales", and "asiaticos" interchangingly. Likewise with people from the middle east, we call them "medio orientales".

Should middle eastern people be offended, too?

 

[foxtrot3d]

negro is spanish for the colour black.

Ha, ha, very funny. Clearly, we meant using the term in English alongside its English meaning.

Words aren't racist, it's the intent behind them. But there really is no comparing it on any level to "nigger" and that's probably why shit really got heated because they're not even in the same ball park, hell not even the same sport. People really don't like accusations of being racist or having any association with that word.


Plenty of people born in the 50s and earlier still use the terms negro, colored or mulatto along with oriental without ill intent and being aware that they're now outdated terms that have become potentially offensive.

I don't care what assholes from the 50's used and I don't care what they grew up with learn to live in the present and know what is and is not acceptable. Second, OP pointed out to the guy that what he said was offensive, the polite thing to do was not to pick a fight and simply accept that. So this isn't adorable old white grandma who still uses negro to describe black people totally ignorant of its outdated nature, this dude was told and he still continued to pick a fight.

How do you guys feel about Chinaman?

Dude, Chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American, please.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Is the OP actually going to address any of the posts explaining this from a UK perspective and how you may have over-reacted?

Or are these blog-posts just designed to get a singular response like the appalling behaviour of the vagina harvester?

 

[BradC00]

The Nova area I live in is pretty much the same way.

Also, is it common for Asians born in America to not get along with Asians born elsewhere? I notice some of my friends seem to be assholes about it.

Asians are racist as hell towards other asians. It's not just something Asian-Americans do, they get it from their parents or something.

 

[Mineshaft_Gap]

Is the OP actually going to address any of the posts explaining this from a UK perspective and how you may have over-reacted?

Or are these blog-posts just designed to get a singular response like the appalling behaviour of the vagina harvester?

I don't see what good it will do for me to respond to a member of the Aryan Brotherhood.

In all seriousness, you indignant scallywag, the thing I took most offense to was his doubling down on his ignorance in response to my polite correction of his ignorant vernacular. His Britishness isn't a factor as the truly offensive thing about this guy wasn't the initial statement but rather the tirade which followed.

 

[akira28]

Is the OP actually going to address any of the posts explaining this from a UK perspective and how you may have over-reacted?

Or are these blog-posts just designed to get a singular response like the appalling behaviour of the vagina harvester?

If this was in America, who gives a fuck?

 

[DECK'ARD]

I don't see what good it will do for me to respond to a member of the Aryan Brotherhood.

Pardon?

 

[entremet]

This is a UK versus North America thing it seems.

 

[Infinite]

Wait are you saying "Asian" is on the road to being an offensive term to some? I dont believe you.

I don't think he was saying that. I think he was saying that the word isn't really precise enough to use in reference to things from the continent especially in an academic setting, which he brought up and framed his point around.

 

[Chinpoko_Master]

It's hard for me to tell who embarrassed himself more in this situation.

 

[v1lla21]

How is that even relevant to the conversation?

"Chinaman" has a much different connotation than "oriental". Putting the word "oriental" in the same category as "negro" is also in a different category. Calling all black people "African" is more apt and even then it's a bit of a stretch.

Anyway, oriental is a word a lot of us grew up with. In Mexico, we call people from Asia "orientales", and "asiaticos" interchangingly. Likewise with people from the middle east, we call them "medio orientales".

Should middle eastern people be offended, too?

This is true. This is why I never saw the word oriental as offensive until I read the link provided earlier. I've never used it and never will, but I've heard people say it before in spanish.

 

[Sketchbag]

I don't see what good it will do for me to respond to a member of the Aryan Brotherhood.

Troll thread confirmed?