god damn, this is a top tier post
it needs more attention, i just want you to know it was appreciated
flawless victory right here, too real
I had a rare encounter with a racist today.
- Thread starter Mineshaft_Gap
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it needs more attention, i just want you to know it was appreciated
flawless victory right here, too real
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Guy is an ass. Roommate should apologize. "Let me look it up and prove I'm only sometimes offensive" like a child..dickhead. Sorry, OP.
BibiMaghoo
Member
For what it's worth, I would never equate the term oriental, with the word nigger. I consider one possibly rude dependent on context, and the other massively offensive. The former is generally used as has been said, an old term to describe a region or race but doesn't have (from my own perspective) any actually offensive connotations. The latter certainly does, and is used solely for that purpose.
But I'm white, and so have never been on the receiving end of either, so what do I know. I would respect a persons wishes not to use a term they found offensive, even if I did not. I wouldn't argue in a situation like this.
But I'm white, and so have never been on the receiving end of either, so what do I know. I would respect a persons wishes not to use a term they found offensive, even if I did not. I wouldn't argue in a situation like this.
Well, reading the OP's story, I thought the father simply came across as too proud to admit he was wrong. That's why he gave that "grew up with" reasoning. It's a round about way of admitting defeat (he can't argue with the definition he brought up), but he doesn't want to be seen as completely wrong.
However, the OP then says, "that's the excuse racists use". The father likely did not see himself as a racist, he also likely didn't see himself as someone who use the example word the OP gave. If the OP hadn't called him racist, but rather said, "well now you know" the whole thing would have likely not kicked off.
However, the OP then says, "that's the excuse racists use". The father likely did not see himself as a racist, he also likely didn't see himself as someone who use the example word the OP gave. If the OP hadn't called him racist, but rather said, "well now you know" the whole thing would have likely not kicked off.
I don't think anyone was arguing that we should all be able to come over to the US and say whatever we like, because it's not offensive there. Its more about pointing out that this isn't the same as him throwing around casual slurs because it was okay to stay that stuff in the 50s
That said I'll repeat that if you have been in the US for a few decades and haven't worked out that this is offensive then I don't have much sympathy
Moral Panic
Member
Sorry if I was a bit curt, my bad. The term is old fashioned and can be considered racially offensive to some when used for a person. Oriental food, Oriental studies, but referring to a person as oriental can be considered racially offensive.
sixteen-bit
Member
racists are shitheads
That is some horrid logic.
We're cool, man. I see what you're saying about using 'Oriental' to describe a person. It's not something I was aware would cause offence, but it's also not the word I'd reach for when describing someone (half because it sounds antiquated, and half because I can't imagine why I'd need to specify someone's (broad) ethnicity in casual conversation).
So, for me, it's one of those phrases that would sound dodgy coming out of my mouth, but it's not so clear cut that I'd call someone out for saying it. Though, perhaps nowadays I'd ask 'em what they thought about the potential offensive nature of the term. Sort of a 'did you know many people don't think that's harmless?' tone.
Yes I agree and I wouldn't label him immediately as a racist for using an offensive word however him defending it would make me question it.
Doubling down when you've been TOLD it's offensive is particularly stupid, "oh it's not considered offensive in the UK, I never knew that, I'm sorry" would be the correct response
Go ahead. Hopefully the owners will educate you that "Oriental" is used to describe objects, not people.
Apparently not enough people on GAF have seen The Big Lebowski.
CadetMahoney
Member
In the UK I heard Asian = India/Pakistan etc. In the U.S. Asian = Korea, Japan, China etc. and everyone accepts it smh. Point being it wasn't the groups themselves who applied the terms the way they do.
We need to get someone on this stat. I always thought that Pakistanis in the US must *hate* being described as "Indian"
PhoenixDark
Banned
Many people, especially white males, love dictating what minorities and/or women should and shouldn't be offended by. If you say you're offended by something that should be the end of things; often a person will apologize and move on, even if they disagree with you. It's just general social politeness. Pressing the issue and bringing up PC is more often than not a sign of aggression and borderline racism or prejudice. Worse yet the "I just grew up that way" retort. If he's white and 50+ years old he probably was raised amongst some pretty ugly shit we wouldn't cosign today.
Isn't that essentially what he stated with the "I grew up with that term" and then the response was immediately "those who use the term nigger have that same excuse" , good way to remove tension. Looking at what users are saying about op, it appears to be a character trait.
You should try to be mindful of the generational gap and cultural differences, not go all guns blazing when you hear something that you deem offensive. Especially so when you start lecturing a person who is older than you.
This should be repeated as mantra. You are more likely to affect someone's viewpoint by discussing it with them than raining righteous indignation from the soapbox. Its not making you a better person so just stop.
Anyway, I had heard the term "oriental" was considered offensive and I've never really used it because people in my generation and after always used Asian. "Nigger" was a slur from jump street so there is no doubt about its intent. What are the connotations of "oriental" because I've never heard it used purposely as a slur or putdown (not saying its okay because of that). Is it the connotations of turn of the century Chinese immigrants in the west?
kurisu_1974
Banned
Hah. That's rich. Maybe you should rethink why you are offended instead. There are no offensive words, only offended people.
True OP could have just handled the situation calmly rather than being confrontational, unless it was clear the term was being used derogatorily rather than out of ignorance. No-one is a saint here
But that depends on where in the US you are from. Other than the Triangle area, there aren't a lot of Asians in NC. On the times I've ever heard an ethnic slur used on someone of Asian decent, Oriental was never used. Now on the west coast or New York, that could be a completely different story.
I think the reason the dad starting acting like a dick was because he felt offended to what the OP was alluding to.
This one is a bit of a stretch to me. Can you explain why you were offended, other than you were told or heard this word is offensive? Why do you find the word offensive? Why did you use the word racist if the person isn't racist?
If we stop saying words or things that offend people, we will quickly run out of things to say.
If we stop saying words or things that offend people, we will quickly run out of things to say.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
oneils
Member
Hahaha. I believe that he tried to mansplain something to you. I've seen a lot of it in this thread.
cyclonekruse
Member
It's unlikely that white males are singling out minorities and telling them what they should or shouldn't be offended by. It's more likely that the white males you're talking about are telling everybody not to be offended. It's just that minorities are typically the ones offended by these words since there's not too many slurs for white men. None that have any real bite anyway.
For me (a white male) I don't necessarily find other people taking offense at something to be meaningful. People can be offended by anything. Some people are offended by people who eat meat. Some are offended by Muslims. Some are offended by people that hate Fox News. Some people are offended by video games.
Sometimes it's legitimate to be offended of course. But just being offended isn't enough for me.
Not exactly sure what you are insinuating here, but I find it offensive. We as in society, as in everyone. Because everyone says thing that offend people.
Never really thought of it, but I can see how that's offensive. 'Oriental' should be used for seasoning or rice crackers, not for people.
I don't think the guy meant any harm, OP. It isn't really the equivalent of nigger in terms of being a 'bad word', it's just a stupid thing most educated people wouldn't think to call an Asian person.
What's this all about, then?
I don't much care for cheeky humour, mate.
I don't think the guy meant any harm, OP. It isn't really the equivalent of nigger in terms of being a 'bad word', it's just a stupid thing most educated people wouldn't think to call an Asian person.
What's this all about, then?
I don't much care for cheeky humour, mate.
#NotAllBrits
metalslimer
Member
I've always heard it used in a negative context by old people nowadays like when my landlord told me that all orientals were cheap.
Also, for the people saying that the guy deserves a break because of the n-word comparison making him feel uncomfortable, the PC nonsense he tried to pull before that shows me he was not willing to change his ways
Also, for the people saying that the guy deserves a break because of the n-word comparison making him feel uncomfortable, the PC nonsense he tried to pull before that shows me he was not willing to change his ways
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
First a slippery slope, then an "everybody does it"
I'm West Indian (I don't speak for all West Indians) and I find the term offensive.
It's too bad more people don't take the time to see things from the other person's perspective. Seems most people only care about beating the other person in an argument and making themselves feel better than actually resolving the issue.
Reading through this thread, I feel this applies to both "sides".
Reading through this thread, I feel this applies to both "sides".
TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
Isn't color and coloured back in with the American left now?
Gucci Messiah
Banned
According to the OP the guy got defensive and used the 'oh well it's the word I grew up with' excuse to deflect from his inappropriate behavior, most likely because he didn't want to admit he was wrong due to being embarrassed or some stupid sense of pride.
Was the OP wrong comparing the word 'oriental' to 'nigger'? Yes, both have different historical contexts. However, it's pretty damn obvious she was just trying to point out that ignorant people, usually white males, tend to use the bullshit 'I don't think it's offensive, therefore you have no right to be offended' or 'I grew up using this word' excuses to try and de-legitimize the feelings of women and minorities. This is an age old tactic that seems to be the go-to disguised hate speech now that it's unacceptable to throw slurs around in the open. I'm surprised this jerk didn't come out and say 'Nah it's okay, I have oriental friends, I'm not being offensive!'
Instead of victim blaming (a thing you do all too often in race threads), here's a thought: how about the old white guy be mindful that his outdated terminology might not fly well with a younger, more educated generation? Just because there's a generational gap doesn't mean myself, the OP, or anyone else can't get offended when some idiot uses imperialistic terms to describe a race (what is this, the 19th century?) and then refuses to change tact when called out on it. The OP didn't even go in 'guns blazing' if you bother to read the exchange.
Uh, no? We don't go around calling people 'colored' or 'negroes' in this country unless you're trying to be offensive. Not sure where you got the idea that it was suddenly okay to do so.
I do wonder what it's like to not be a straight white guy. I can't think of a word anyone could call me or say to me (about me) and me get actually offended by it. I wonder if people who aren't straight white guys have ever wondered what it's like to be one, to walk in my shoes for a year and see what the world looks like from my perspective.
I do wish I could directly experience it from others.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
No.
"person/people of color" is used sometimes, and it's still very different from colored. For example, we didn't have "people of color only" signs on water fountains in the past
That would have meant acknowledging us as people
I was surprised, disheartened, offended, and distressed to read such an insensitive racial caricature.
Chuckie
Member
Lol. I knew something was off with that sentence. (Dutchy here)
Shanks D Zoro
Banned
I actually get offended most days as a straight white guy in Korea. Walking down the street and being called foreigner in Korean really gets on my nerves.
Omegasquash
Member
I figure questions out of the gate to someone about their ethnicity or trying to dig into their ancestry to discover where they're REALLY from come from the brains of someone who's racist.
Not kind of, not sort of. It's racism.
Not kind of, not sort of. It's racism.
TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
Didn't get the idea it was ok to use. Just found it strange it was used alot by people now. When I've never seen it used before in anything but older media or old timey period pieces.
Ok, so it's taken what was once offensive and adding "people/person" that removed the offensive part?
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Are people calling you foreigner to your face and belittling or dehumanizing you because you're different?
I'm seriously asking, by the way. Lived in Japan for 10 years now, only had one blatantly "fuck you foreign guy" experience w/an elderly cabbie. Korea's obviously culturally different though
Like I said before, it's not that "colored" itself is so inherently bad, it's antiquated and reminds people of the not-so-good-old-days.
Don't think POC is necessarily about reclaiming color or anything.
Does anyone know why "oriental" is offensive? We know why words like "negro", "colored", "wetback" are offensive because those were designed to be derogatory and stereotypical words; a way to differentiate and lessen others. Oriental is a historical word. It means the East. It encompasses peoples, cultures, studies, etc..
Where exactly does the offense come from? Does this offense also apply to the word "Asian"?
This is my point of confusion.
Where exactly does the offense come from? Does this offense also apply to the word "Asian"?
This is my point of confusion.
Messofanego
Banned
I'm from the UK. Never heard people refer to Asian people as "orientals", and sounds like a very outdated word to describe them. It can be considered offensive in UK too, and other countries.
I wouldn't describe myself as that, much like Japanese wouldn't describe themselves as "japs". But if Pakistani people use that term out loud, I would still tell them not to. Only time I ever hear "paki" towards me is meant to be offensive and in anger.
I wouldn't describe myself as that, much like Japanese wouldn't describe themselves as "japs". But if Pakistani people use that term out loud, I would still tell them not to. Only time I ever hear "paki" towards me is meant to be offensive and in anger.
Shanks D Zoro
Banned
While they are not doing it in an offensive manner, except a few times when they have been drunk, it still comes across as strange to me that Koreans of all age groups just casually say it.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
People have said several times in the thread what the problem is.
Japanese people (at least in urban areas) are definitely more reserved in that area; only kids have ever said "gaijin" and actually pointed at me, but they're just kids remarking at something they don't usually see up close. Some people I know that lived out in the country definitely got it more and from all ages though.
There's anti-foreigner discrimination in Japan for sure, especially in important areas like housing, and let's not get started on comedy shows. Still, generally have to deal w/less bullshit here
Gucci Messiah
Banned
Well, where are you getting the idea that the term 'colored' is used by a lot of people now? I live in the United States and can only recall one instance in my life when I have been referred to as 'colored' and that was by a girl in middle school who didn't know any better. It's an outdated term most people would find offensive, although it doesn't have the same bite as other racial slurs for blacks.
No they haven't. Where does the offense come from. People have said they're offended. We know why the word "nigger", "negro", "colored", "wetback", etc. are offensive because we know points in history where it was used and its continued use caused them to be offensive.
Oriental doesn't really have this. Sure, there were hotspots where discussions were held, but it wasn't a widely held issue it seems. The change mostly started in universities but that may be due to the progressive and "PC atmosphere".
I'm just confused as to where the offense originated or what it actually is. Asian is the exact same word it just excludes countries.
Edit: So it may be just a giant wall of ignorance, anyhow, anyone got any reading material on how "oriental" became offensive?
Yes they have.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Seriously, get out of here with this nonsense.
You're on Gaf which means you have internet, do your own homework
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