Destiny's Raid, 'Vault of Glass' is now available to play. Hardest challenge yet.

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Night Angel said:
Oh yeah, being reasonable and realizing that the game is not meant to be full cleared by everyone in the first week is totally damage control.

The game is not perfect by any means, but it's too early to start crying because you're not max level.
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Let me rephrase this . I can get to 26 by doing PVP challenges and the odd repetitive strike missions. Toughing it out to 26 isn't the problem. I'm already 22.


The problem is how many people of the console crowd will actually want to tough it out and have the patience just to get to 20...and then do the exact same shit they did to get to 26. The game is already built on a flawed philosophy of leveling up.
 
ffejeromdiks said:
Holy shit half of the people in this thread have no idea what a raid even is.

Can't believe all the saltiness, of course you need 6 friends to do it, you're never going to finish it with randoms. Of course it's hard, it's the end game content. Jesus Christ, does everyone just want free legendary handouts or something? Earn it.
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You have a lot of 'of courses' in there. Why pin your whole end game strategy on catering to that incredibly small minority you just described? People are salty because there's nothing to do unless you're the exact person you just described: skilled, lots of free time, friends constantly online and available, friends at the same level, etc.

I mean, of course it's hard! Of course almost nobody will be able to do it! But don't judge the game until it's out! There's a disconnect there.
 
This really seems like you need a team dedicated to actually functioning as a team and not just some randoms who wanna run & gun thru a strike mission. Not for your random, matchmaking, can only play for an hour type of players. I love it but I doubt i'll ever get to finish it since it'll be tough to get the requirements together to play.
 
ffejeromdiks said:
Holy shit half of the people in this thread have no idea what a raid even is.

Can't believe all the saltiness, of course you need 6 friends to do it, you're never going to finish it with randoms. Of course it's hard, it's the end game content. Jesus Christ, does everyone just want free legendary handouts or something? Earn it.
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I think what people want is a multiplayer game that they can actually play with other people. Not all of us have a friends list full of people playing the same game on the same console as us.

ffejeromdiks said:
Do you really want to do a 6+ hour raid with people you don't even know? People who will inevitably rage quit and refuse to communicate making it literally impossible to finish? Say you can't finish it one sitting, and you want to return to it later...what exactly are the chances that all 5 of the other guys are ever going to be on again at the same time?

Cannot believe so many people would even want to attempt this with randoms, cause even if you could, you'd be on here posting "Why did I buy this? I can't beat this stupid raid!"
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Don't even care about doing a 6 hour raid. I just want more than a few basic strikes to do with other people. I want this multiplayer game to actually be multiplayer.
 
methane47 said:
I think this is the KEY right here.

The problem is there is sooo little content. If it took the average Destiny player a MONTH to hit Level 20 and then on TOP of that their were Raids, then I dont think people would complain.

But with Destiny, you are DONE with the content in 5 days.... ... And then what.
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Errr, I've had it since launch, it's going to take me a month to get to 20, and then I have raids to look forward to....so not complaining. It's a mistake to assume that most people blew through the game in five days and are starving for content.

As a side note...this is a brand new concept for consoles, and one that was discussed prior to releasing the game. Real communication and coordination was going to be necessary to approach the end game. There's a lot of chatter about the gimped social aspects of the game, I totally agree, but their raid approach is pretty brilliant. Time to make friends and be social ;) hint, start with gaf players
 
People are still saying this sort of stuff even after seeing the stream?
StoOgE said:
I'm starting to really regret this purchase.

Why there can't be match making for more casual players with less IRL friends who play games is super stupid.

Just add drop-in drop-out for raids. PSO did it for people doing the full playthrough and had a robust lobby system for getting into games and/or locking them to invite only if people so chose.
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ffejeromdiks said:
You're on Neogaf, join the clan and meet up with other guys, there's hundreds of us doing it, why can't you?
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I think the point is that coordinating a time that works for 6 people is still a hassle as opposed to just having the game match you up. If for some reason one of your players can't make it then the game SHOULD fill that slot for you.
 
hwalker84 said:
Honestly pure luck loot drops while playing with friends in strikes, patrol and multiplayer. Though I think the Xbox playtime maybe borked cause it said 13 hours when I checked last and i'm feeling like it 20.
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Ok i was going to say... 20 hours about is more reasonable. I've been grinding for drops and just have the worlds shittiest luck. Guys next to me are constantly "Oh cool, another legendary.... Oh wow, an exotic!" Me: "Great, my legendary turned into a level 17 uncommon."
 
midasmulligan said:
Errr, I've had it since launch, it's going to take me a month to get to 20, and then I have raids to look forward to....so not complaining. It's a mistake to assume that most people blew through the game in five days and are starving for content.
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I've only played a few hours at most in the evenings and only had time on the weekend to most of the day. Completed the Story and am currently lvl 21. Not too much effort. Already tired of playing the same Strike missions I end up in with their playlist.

Once you reach 20, all you're doing is grinding and farming the same shit over and over. There's nothing else to see aside from the Raids.
 
LyleLanley said:
Why can't they have the raid in multiple difficulties? One that's easy enough to beat with a group of randoms and one that really requires a group of people that you know. As it is now I'll probably never get to experience the raid since it's hard getting 5 of my friends online at the same time for long enough.
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Chances are this raid will eventually be easier when they release better equipment in expansions.

marianitten said:
The difficulty to get a group of 6 shouln't be a part of the raid difficulty.
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lol getting 6 people together isn't the hard part of this raid. you guys are nuts
 
ffejeromdiks said:
You're on Neogaf, join the clan and meet up with other guys, there's hundreds of us doing it, why can't you?
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So to play a game I bought I need to get on a forum and find people to play with?

If the game had a robust guild system and communication system where I could find people in game to do it with and join up that would be different.

Dunno, I guess some of this was available knowledge pre-launch (this part too), but I bought the game and just haven't been able to get into it despite playing the beta and liking it.

Just seems like the only interesting bits have pretty high barriers of entry for someone with a less flexible gaming schedule (wife, full time job, etc) whose friends aren't avid gamers. I rarely know when I'm going to have 2-3 hours to play a game until it happens.

Not saying it's "bad design" just saying it certainly isn't for me and I should have passed. My inner bungie fanboy sort of over-rode my logic core.
 
StoOgE said:
I'm starting to really regret this purchase.

Why there can't be match making for more casual players with less IRL friends who play games is super stupid.

Just add drop-in drop-out for raids. PSO did it for people doing the full playthrough and had a robust lobby system for getting into games and/or locking them to invite only if people so chose.
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Agreed. Your example makes this look even more archaic.
 
midasmulligan said:
Errr, I've had it since launch, it's going to take me a month to get to 20, and then I have raids to look forward to....so not complaining. It's a mistake to assume that most people blew through the game in five days and are starving for content.
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See, it will take you a month. and you wont complain about the Raid content.

I'm a pretty average player and Hit 20 2 days ago.
My brother has ADHD and played WOW for a year before getting a single player up to 80.
He now is about to reach level 20 in Destiny, and Destiny is about to fall by the wayside because this Raid Content is basically unavailable for us because of the friend requirement.
 
If raids are intentionally built to only be playable for a very small subsection of the audience of the game, then they shouldn't really mention it in the game's value proposition.
 
ffejeromdiks said:
Do you really want to do a 6+ hour raid with people you don't even know? People who will inevitably rage quit and refuse to communicate making it literally impossible to finish? Say you can't finish it one sitting, and you want to return to it later...what exactly are the chances that all 5 of the other guys are ever going to be on again at the same time?

Cannot believe so many people would even want to attempt this with randoms, cause even if you could, you'd be on here posting "Why did I buy this? I can't beat this stupid raid!"
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This.

All these people complaining about no matchmaking would be the same ones bitching that they keep getting people disconnecting in the middle of bosses or after a few deaths too.

Bungie wanted this to be something you did with a well put together team that coordinates and uses teamwork throughout.

I really can't wait. Instead of bitching about what functionality doesn't exist, how about just say Hi to some people, get into a Raid and see how it goes?

Never knew gamers were anti-social to this extreme. But of course, this is just a forum ... so about .00000000000000001% of the people who bough the game lol. So who knows. I do see a ton of Fireteams out in the field while doing patrols and such. Reading here you would think fireteams did not exist.
 
NullPointer said:
Both games are available right now, so yes, they're comparable, directly, as they currently stand.

The only reason I jumped in is that your post made it seem like it was crazy to say Warframe looked to have more variety. Its not crazy in the slightest.

That doesn't mean that Warframe is better or that people will prefer it. Just that it does actually offer up more variety.
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A game that has been touted as an on going development project being compared to another game that is the same thing but has years on it is not a fair comparison to make. You can try to reason that however you want bit you /know/ it's ridiculous.

And WF still doesn't trump Destiny because the "variety" is so slight that it barely changes the gameplay experience. It just has more stuff, more stuff that has almost identical gameplay.

I wouldn't call that more varied. Just more way to do pretty much the same thing. It's a cheap trick, one that Destiny currently pulls but manages (IMO) to pull off better than a game that's been trying for a couple of years simply because the core of its repetitive gamplay is much more fun.

Both games suffer from the same flaws. RNG, repetition, the illusion of variety. Destiny has a shot to fix that, I doubt Digital Extremes will change their tactics after this long.
 
StoOgE said:
Just seems like the only interesting bits have pretty high barriers of entry for someone with a less flexible gaming schedule (wife, full time job, etc)
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The thing I don't get is how different really is it to recruit through a forum as opposed to matchmaking? Or bugging people at random in the tower or out in the open world?

Except of course, its more difficult with those methods as opposed to a real-time algorithm that can find people that want to raid, right then and there, matching your region.

I think, for some people, the fact that its arbitrarily difficult and exclusionary is exactly what provides the appeal.
 
ffejeromdiks said:
They probably will add difficulties later on like in WoW...difficulties that make them harder, not easier. It's meant to be hard, it's the whole point of a raid.
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I really hope Bungie doesn't go the classic MMO route of making all the cool end game stuff these incredibly hard raids. I want to experience the cool stuff but, like I said before, I'm probably never going to be able to get a group of 6 dedicated players that I know to play a 4 hour long raid.
 
tranciful said:
People are still saying this sort of stuff even after seeing the stream?
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I was in the "why not at least give the option to let random people do raids" camp, not really believing the usual "you need teamwork and mics to complete it" marketing speech.
I've followed StreamerHouse's stream on and off ever since they started this raid, and I must say I've TOTALLY changed my mind.
 
"hard" isn't what Destiny needs. "interesting" and "different" are. How many times does this thing have you hold X to defend Dinklige from waves of enemies?
 
Crewnh said:
"You can't do a raid with random people, you will fail"

"Here's a link you can use to join with random people"
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Yeah this is the most hilarious part. If they are worried ransoms will quit quickly, just put a suspension on them for an hour or 2 to make that happen less.
 
I don't like the idea of not having matchmaking available for raids since I do t have many friends that are on at the same time. I also don't like adding people to my friends list that I am not friends with outside of the game, as they just clutter my friends list.
 
StoOgE said:
So to play a game I bought I need to get on a forum and find people to play with?

If the game had a robust guild system and communication system where I could find people in game to do it with and join up that would be different.

Dunno, I guess some of this was available knowledge pre-launch (this part too), but I bought the game and just haven't been able to get into it despite playing the beta and liking it.

Just seems like the only interesting bits have pretty high barriers of entry for someone with a less flexible gaming schedule (wife, full time job, etc) whose friends aren't avid gamers. I rarely know when I'm going to have 2-3 hours to play a game until it happens.

Not saying it's "bad design" just saying it certainly isn't for me and I should have passed. My inner bungie fanboy sort of over-rode my logic core.
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Yes they should add more social features, but why aren't you adding people you meet in game?

I have two dozen active players, 10 of whom have confirmed they're up for raiding. I stopped adding after that but I'd have dozens more if I didn't.

You don't need to leave the game to find people. Play a strike and add the good players you meet. The game gets so much better if you do.

They reall do need to add in more social features, but there's nothing preventing you finding people in game.
 
ffejeromdiks said:
Holy shit half of the people in this thread have no idea what a raid even is.

Can't believe all the saltiness, of course you need 6 friends to do it, you're never going to finish it with randoms. Of course it's hard, it's the end game content. Jesus Christ, does everyone just want free legendary handouts or something? Earn it.
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It might have something to do with being told, repeatedly, that Destiny is NOT an MMO. The context of "raid" doesn't really exist outside of MMOs. It's very likely that most people would assume that a mostly-single-player loot-whore game would function similar to other mostly-single-player loot-whore games (Diablo 3, for example) - with things like scaling party size, difficulty, loot allowing for almost every single piece of content to be available to all players (but not all gear/achievements/progression).

However, the game mechanics (specifically looting and raiding) are pulled right out of the MMO genre and thrown into a Borderlands-esque shooter. And they really don't work for the majority of the playerbase. Raids in Destiny being obviously designed for the top 10%ers is just another poor decision that makes the game way less appealing to a ton of people.
 
Can I ask an honest question regarding the Level 20 cap.

Once I hit the cap, I undestand I have to keep farming armour to get "Light". The more Light I have on my equipped armour, the more my level will increase beyond the 20th level.

So my question is - is this random? Does the game purposely monitor how many games, hours or my performance I've played and give me loot with light? Or is it random?

So basically my question is - from Levels 1 to 20, I'll get constant stream of experience to level up. After that......is it just luck as to which armour I'll get to get Light?
 
Hero_of_the_Day said:
Wait, you HAVE to have 6 players? I knew about the no matchmaking part, but I didn't know you literally couldn't play it without 6 players. Is that correct?
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It asks the group to separate in different smaller groups A LOT. It seems you really need to be 6 players to even have a chance at it.
 
ffejeromdiks said:
Can't believe all the saltiness, of course you need 6 friends to do it, you're never going to finish it with randoms. Of course it's hard, it's the end game content. Jesus Christ, does everyone just want free legendary handouts or something? Earn it.
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They'd just turn out to be rares anyway so it's not like it matters.
 
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