UncleLeo!?
Banned
That actually made me laugh.
Dude I wish I could but I have no willpower. I broke my phone because I couldn't stop using it and I had some really serious stuff coming up. Anyway, I give up, I'll just try and stop using the site.
Bayonetta 2 off to a slow start in Japan [Update: Week 2 sales]
- Thread starter SomewhatGroovy
- Start date
That actually made me laugh.
Bayonetta 2 serves multiple purposes for Nintendo:
1) broaden it's portfolio
2) fill Q4 2014 with releases
3) helps its bonding with 3rd party studios
4) attract "core" non-nintendo crowd
5) hopefully make some profit
It does 1 & 2, nobody argues that. We can assume it does 3. It succeeds less in 4 & 5 - although it did make some core gamers buy a WiiU specifically for WiiU.
How many, and how does this turn out as an investment for Nintendo? That's hard to say, we can only guess.
My out-of-my-ass calculation: WiiU sales had a 2k bump last week in japan, and let's assume another 2k bought it in the months before that specifically for Bayonetta, seems reasonable. That would make 4.000 "core bayonetta fans" buy a WiiU.
For the US, let's make that 7000, and Europe 4000. I give the US a bit more because Bayonetta sold most there and is a bigger market.
That's 15000 WiiU's sold. With 40$ a console profit (console + some accessory): 600000 + 150.000 bayonetta WW sold at 35$ profit = 5.850.000$
This might be totally wrong, so feel free to play with the parameters. We also don't know what Nintendo payed Platinum for the game (10-15million would seem like a normal budget for a title like this + port of bayo1), and if Nintendo keeps the rights to release Bayonetta 2 in the future (for example in 4-5 years for it's new portable). I'd assume chances are nintendo also has those rights (but not the IP rights).
1) broaden it's portfolio
2) fill Q4 2014 with releases
3) helps its bonding with 3rd party studios
4) attract "core" non-nintendo crowd
5) hopefully make some profit
It does 1 & 2, nobody argues that. We can assume it does 3. It succeeds less in 4 & 5 - although it did make some core gamers buy a WiiU specifically for WiiU.
How many, and how does this turn out as an investment for Nintendo? That's hard to say, we can only guess.
My out-of-my-ass calculation: WiiU sales had a 2k bump last week in japan, and let's assume another 2k bought it in the months before that specifically for Bayonetta, seems reasonable. That would make 4.000 "core bayonetta fans" buy a WiiU.
For the US, let's make that 7000, and Europe 4000. I give the US a bit more because Bayonetta sold most there and is a bigger market.
That's 15000 WiiU's sold. With 40$ a console profit (console + some accessory): 600000 + 150.000 bayonetta WW sold at 35$ profit = 5.850.000$
This might be totally wrong, so feel free to play with the parameters. We also don't know what Nintendo payed Platinum for the game (10-15million would seem like a normal budget for a title like this + port of bayo1), and if Nintendo keeps the rights to release Bayonetta 2 in the future (for example in 4-5 years for it's new portable). I'd assume chances are nintendo also has those rights (but not the IP rights).
What use is anecdotal evidence from a few posters? Doesn't sales speak for themselves?
That's Famitsu sales. MC has 5.2k for W101 and 38.8k for Bayo2 which is a bigger gap.
So, by that logic the WiiU is uninteresting in Japan, the PS4 is dead and the X1 is non existent. Ofc it's not that no home console is selling there whatsoever.
Cosmic Dreams
Member
It's not from a poster on here. It's from a personal friend of mine who lives in Japan.
Doesn't matter to me if everyone doesn't buy it. I plan on picking it up day one. It's a shame that games like this get lost in the shuffle of today's big budget extravaganzas, but all I can do as a consumer is vote with my wallet. Either way, I give Nintendo and Platinum credit. The game looks great and seems to have a lot of love and care put into it.
I live in Japan and so do quite a few other gaffers. I don't think their perceptions are worth much unless they go around poling hundreds of people.
edit: at gunpoint I would say 'probably' but really, all the home consoles are 'uninteresting' right now.
No publisher wanted to fund it for other consoles.
No publisher wanted to fund it for existing consoles.
Nintendo is the only one that wanted to pay for it and have the game made.
Your two options are Bayonetta 2 on the Wii U or no Bayonetta 2 at all.
Cosmic Dreams
Member
Of course. If anything, he might've just heard those opinions from a few friends of his. I'm not going to take him that serious.
What's the general consensus that you've been hearing?
My students (high schoolers) drool over the stuff, but don't actually own it. They generally are playing mobile games or Monster Hunter. I always get the impression that game systems are a look but don't touch kinda thing. I guess many parents don't pay for that sort of thing anymore.
Not really when you consider the type of games on both platforms.
Edit: Ok I'm not used to mobile, thought this was still the first page of replies.
Cosmic Dreams
Member
that would explain why mobile games are doing so well there. (including smash 3DS recently)
it's more affordable in the budget for a student, plus they can take it with them on the go.
I'd like to think that the ps4 is in a coma. Like we haven't even got to use the chalkboard yet because there is nothing on the thing until next year. The Wii U has played all its cards as far as I'm concerned and the Xbox was never worth discussing.
Seriously. This will be the first game in years that I want to run out and buy. This is the first time in years that I have been genuinely hyped. The industry is so stagnant now, and Nintendo is no exception. Mario, Zelda, DK every couple of years like clockwork. Can't even get a good F-Zero or Metroid out of them these days. I have been on bad terms with Nintendo since like 2007. Every time I saw them announce something I would usually be offended (much like Sega). So for many years I did not buy into anything Nintendo. I hated the Wii. But during the last year or so that has changed. Nintendo has captured my attention with the Wii U, and that can all be attributed to deals like this. I have begun to have some faith that Nintendo is going to come back in classic form. I feel like there is some actual dedication to disrupting the norm at Nintendo. Because of this, I am happy to say I am going to own a Wii U soon.
Actually the WiiU hasn't even played half its cards yet. But the thing is that home consoles are very much dead in Japan in general. Very few titles can change that.
That's how i feel. Current Nintendo is a far better company compared to Wii Nintendo.
They're playing Smash Bros on their 3DS and gearing up for Fatal Frame.
I live in Japan and work in the game industry, so I talk about games to a lot of people.
These are the most common comments I've gotten in the past 5 years:
- "I used to play a lot of games, but they became so complex I couldn't keep up."
- "I owned a NES, a SNES, and the first PS (and maybe the second one). After that, I lost touch."
- "I'm not really aware of what's going on with consoles. You do hear a lot about smartphone games lately though..."
- "I'm so busy with work that I don't have time to sit down and play. Smartphone games that you can play using one hand in the train are good enough for me."
It is a very deep and complex phenomenon that can't be explained in just a few lines, but basically, games have become too realistic/complex/unappealing to "common people", which all of a sudden found what they were looking for in their pockets (smartphone games).
The remaining core games? They mostly own PSPs (everyone has one here) and 3DSs (everyone and their mothers have them now), and to a lesser extent PS Vitas.
The PS3 caught steam late in the cycle (post 2011) and so now there are a lot of games coming out for it (mostly JRPGs with moe-kei characters that honestly look mostly the same to me) and sadly the PS4 has nothing that appeals to that niche.
Nintendo is seen as a family-friendly company and that's why everyone buys their children 3DS here, and to a lesser extent, Wii Us, because it's a "safe" console with "colorful games", but the Wii U hasn't caught much steam because most people don't know what it is or what the difference is with the original Wii (which everyone bought, played for 5 minutes and then never touched ever again).
Therefore, very few hardcore users own the Wii U, and the ones that do would probably buy Bayonetta 2 (heck, some people -me included- actually bought it for the freaking game), but it just isn't enough.
These are the most common comments I've gotten in the past 5 years:
- "I used to play a lot of games, but they became so complex I couldn't keep up."
- "I owned a NES, a SNES, and the first PS (and maybe the second one). After that, I lost touch."
- "I'm not really aware of what's going on with consoles. You do hear a lot about smartphone games lately though..."
- "I'm so busy with work that I don't have time to sit down and play. Smartphone games that you can play using one hand in the train are good enough for me."
It is a very deep and complex phenomenon that can't be explained in just a few lines, but basically, games have become too realistic/complex/unappealing to "common people", which all of a sudden found what they were looking for in their pockets (smartphone games).
The remaining core games? They mostly own PSPs (everyone has one here) and 3DSs (everyone and their mothers have them now), and to a lesser extent PS Vitas.
The PS3 caught steam late in the cycle (post 2011) and so now there are a lot of games coming out for it (mostly JRPGs with moe-kei characters that honestly look mostly the same to me) and sadly the PS4 has nothing that appeals to that niche.
Nintendo is seen as a family-friendly company and that's why everyone buys their children 3DS here, and to a lesser extent, Wii Us, because it's a "safe" console with "colorful games", but the Wii U hasn't caught much steam because most people don't know what it is or what the difference is with the original Wii (which everyone bought, played for 5 minutes and then never touched ever again).
Therefore, very few hardcore users own the Wii U, and the ones that do would probably buy Bayonetta 2 (heck, some people -me included- actually bought it for the freaking game), but it just isn't enough.
Yes, this is why the Wii was a huge success but Nintendo made the mistake of thinking these people would gravitate to more complex stuff.
Nobody cares about consoles in Japan for the most part. If your gonna be sad about it, suck it up.
From my experiences, its just fanboy talk most of the time, but none of the sides except the people who play 3DS actually vote with their wallets and buy things. Everyone else only has mouth and nothing else.
Unless a huge game that is critically acclaimed in the world(that is to say, gets high praise in the western media like Last Of Us), or a well known franchise (like Tales or Metal Gear), comes out, nobody is going to buy anything of note outside of 3DS or smartphones
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
No one should be surprised. It couldn't even do what the 360 version in JP managed to do......the audience and fans of such games just don;t care about a WiiU.
every time lol
every time lol
Huh?, Japanese players aren't the most skilled video game players in the world?
Daigo who?
You'd be clever if the same demographic who took the Wii to huge success were the same ones breaking records in video games.
Cosmic Dreams
Member
very interesting post. thanks! i'm starting to see many individuals prefer simplistic games because many gamers in japan choose not to spend their time playing more complex games? sign of the times.
i'm not sad about it, just disappointed because platinum hasn't been doing too hot sales wise lately. there's a difference, but i see where you're coming from. so franchises like KH, FF, MG, Smash, things like that are what grabs gamers attention out there?
My problem with most Bayonetta 2 threads is that people """"seem"""" to love the franchise and want it to succeed but they never put their money where their mouth is. It is always about blaming Wii U users who do not buy anything (not even Nintendo games that are not Mario Kart). I'm not expecting everyone to buy a Wii U because of the game but let us remember that the game is out there for everyone to buy, so if you care about the franchise you should buy it and stop complaining and blaming the Wii U for it's lack of commercial success. It is an easy way to take yourself out of the line and pretend you are not also part of the problem.
It is very sad that sales have become the most important thing nowadays. We are in the arguably most important video game forum in existence today, so it is easy to assume most people here would be considered "hardcore gamers" (as much as I hate the expression), and yet a huge chunk of it refuses to support the game because of it's Wii U exclusivity when it is the exclusivity the reason that the game exists in the first place. As a gamer I want to support the companies that give me the products that I want. Platinum Games is one of them (luckily for me Nintendo is too so I already have a Wii U), and I want more action games like the games Platinum makes, so I'll support them regardless of the platform they are releasing their games on. I'm not interested in the platform, all I want is Platinum to stay afloat and keep producing the games I love. I'm not so sure I'll buy a X1 at this point in time, but rest assured I'll buy Scalebound when it releases. And... Yes, in a ideal world it would be great to have every game being released on every single platform, but guess what? Companies want/need money and that is how things work... So when you are blaming Wii U owners for Bayonetta's lack of commercial success, make sure to leave some space for you to blame yourself as well.
It is very sad that sales have become the most important thing nowadays. We are in the arguably most important video game forum in existence today, so it is easy to assume most people here would be considered "hardcore gamers" (as much as I hate the expression), and yet a huge chunk of it refuses to support the game because of it's Wii U exclusivity when it is the exclusivity the reason that the game exists in the first place. As a gamer I want to support the companies that give me the products that I want. Platinum Games is one of them (luckily for me Nintendo is too so I already have a Wii U), and I want more action games like the games Platinum makes, so I'll support them regardless of the platform they are releasing their games on. I'm not interested in the platform, all I want is Platinum to stay afloat and keep producing the games I love. I'm not so sure I'll buy a X1 at this point in time, but rest assured I'll buy Scalebound when it releases. And... Yes, in a ideal world it would be great to have every game being released on every single platform, but guess what? Companies want/need money and that is how things work... So when you are blaming Wii U owners for Bayonetta's lack of commercial success, make sure to leave some space for you to blame yourself as well.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
Every single Bayo2 thread goes completely bonkers at some point
And the account suicide was so weak mods didn't even bother to delete the post, smh
And the account suicide was so weak mods didn't even bother to delete the post, smh
The WiiU has only sold about 1.9 million units in Japan so far. Out of those 1.9 million units, how many are still plugged in for regular use? How many have been sold to second hand stores? Judging by the terrible software sales and how even super popular titles like Mario Kart are struggling on the system, it's clear that most of the audience just isn't there. If you consider that most of the people who bought a WiiU, especially the core gamers, are probably playing some other console or portable instead, then you'll see why they might not care to buy a WiiU game anymore.
Companies should know that if they want my money they should release it on consoles i own. Not gonna buy a Wii U just for one game which shouldn't have been on that console in the first place. Platinum bet on the wrong horse.
drotahorror
Member
Next week we'll hear about how bad Fatal Frame sold it's first week.
At this point in time putting out a game exclusively on Wii U in Japan first, or forever, is just a horrible decision.
At this point in time putting out a game exclusively on Wii U in Japan first, or forever, is just a horrible decision.
Because most people don't want to buy a console for one game. If I like the type of games Platinum makes then I'm going to want to buy more like it, and the sad truth is if I buy a WiiU I'm going to find very little going forward to justify my purchase. It's great you have the money to be so choosy but the majority don't and this is why sales are low. If Nintendo had an ecosystem where games like this were readily available and coming in the future, things might be different.
Funny thing is, which other platform today has games like this readily available and coming in the future?
Well... errrrrrrrrrr... You know tha-....
Nevermind.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Exactly.
Don't blame the gamers/fans. If you expect them to go buy a £200+ console just for one game then do you honestly believe all you're fans will do that. If you do then you're kidding yourself. Only a fraction would be willing to spend that much.
Starwolf_UK
Member
Yes more horse analogies! Nintendo was paying the bet here.
Unless it means platinum won't have interested publishers because their games are proven non-sellers or something.
Bl@de
Member
But I thought they didn't have much choice. Nobody else wanted Bayonetta 2. They asked other Publishers. Only Nintnedo supported it while other Publishers said "Sry I see no GTA, CoD, ...." - This way at least somebody can play it.
RandyBobandy
Banned
It's gonna be even less in America. You can book that right now
This has NEVER EVER been proven. We do not know what happened behind the curtains. It's entirely possible that Nintendo was the first company they pitched Bayonetta 2 to and they accepted it first. Platinum have never said anything about any every other company not wanting to fund Bayo 2. Unless evidence that proves otherwise, the whole "Bayonetta wouldn't have existed without Nintendo" thing is nothing but a half truth.
I dont know. A new Fatal Frame movie is being released in theaters the day before the game and the preorder numbers are supposedly better than Bayonetta.
Where were you when SEGA cancelled Bayo 2, Junior?
Where were you when Platinum said that Sony, Microsoft, Capcom, Square Enix, etc said they refused to fund Bayo2 after Platinum pitched it to them?
PS3 has quite a few. I imagine that's where most of the target audience for Bayonetta 2 are at the moment, especially if we're talking about Japan. Bayonetta, DMC4, MGR, DmC, NGS, NGS2, NG3, even Max Anarchy. Obviously since the game is funded by Nintendo, it wouldn't be on the PS3, but that doesn't change the reality people who played those games are there. It's generous of Nintendo to fund a game no one else wanted to, but that doesn't mean people will flock to a dead system they don't already own just for one game.
shinra-bansho
Member
While it would never happen Nintendo likely would have made a better return if they had put it on the PS3 and 360.
Smash at Christmas is likely the last major potential sales driver.
I'm rather curious what these other cards are.
Smash at Christmas is likely the last major potential sales driver.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Sales of every other Platinum game say otherwise.
Cosmic Dreams
Member
Seems as though Nintendo is doing their best to turn things around because of this.
Have you noticed the change in their relationship with their consumers? All these official events happening now, new software (and hardware) being pumped into the market...seems like these horrible sales have done something to change Nintendo.
Next gen should be interesting for them because I bet they're doing whatever they can to turn things around from what the Wii U might've failed to accomplish.
I don't think it's so much that they pitched Bayo 2 to Nintendo, they were working with Nintendo on Wonderful 101 when the rumor broke that Bayonetta 2 was cancelled by Sega in May 2012 (1 month before E3, when Wonderful 101 was unveiled under the codename Project P-100.) Nintendo probably asked them "Hey, since we're working with you on The Wonderful 101, how far in development was Bayonetta 2 and how much do you think it would cost to finish it?"
We obviously have no idea if Microsoft or Sony expressed interest in funding Bayonetta 2, but obviously since Platinum already had an ongoing business deal with them for The Wonderful 101, there'd be no reason for them to turn down a company they're already working with offering to fund another game, especially one that was cancelled after it had already started development. This is obviously conjecture, but I wouldn't be surprised if it went down something like that.
I have high hopes for Splatoon