Well just saw this from a tweet :
Is there any surprise someone like her getting a lot of hate on the internet, regardless of gender ?
#GAMERGATE: The Threadening [Read the OP] -- #StopGamerGate2014
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Well just saw this from a tweet :
Is there any surprise someone like her getting a lot of hate on the internet, regardless of gender ?
Neoriceisgood
Member
Gabe from Penny Arcade is a known asshole who keeps saying horrible shit, "Creator of a charity" does not excuse him from being called out on his petty tantrums.
Though in order to thrive, and not just get by, sometimes you have to double down. Playing it safe doesn't even really advance what we might define as objective progress, at least if Kuhn and his theory about paradigms is to be believed.
Posting or re-posting this, because it's a good article about the myriad ethical issues in videogames: http://leighalexander.net/list-of-ethical-concerns-in-video-games-partial/
Not how to solve them, but solving them probably would require unionizing in many cases.
Well just saw this from a tweet :
Is there any surprise someone like her getting a lot of hate on the internet, regardless of gender ?
I always wish they'd show the context that led up to these exchanges.
Yeah it's pretty telling they have to represent Gabe as the creator of a charity. It colors all of the rest of the examples, because, as much as I actually like PA and Child's Play, Mike can be a very vocal and obnoxious dick, and anyone without an agenda to twist can see that. Dude's even admitted it himself.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
Yep, especially stuff like this. http://makemeasammich.org/2013/06/07/penny-arcades-gabe-is-willfully-ignorant-again/
Moon_frogger
Member
Why does Adam Baldwin have to be such a piece of shit 
I like firefly so very much
In other news I've kind of had a moment of self reflection. Even if I don't particularly enjoy leigh Alexander and her particular brand of confrontational writing I've decided that I firmly stand on her side of the issue. I mean people have been saying this for months now but there really is no other logical 'side' to be on. Wether you consider yourself a 'gamer' or just someone who enjoys games or whatever, we really need to all be giving her our unconditional support in the face of this unrestricted prejudice and hatred. It has to stop.
I like firefly so very much In other news I've kind of had a moment of self reflection. Even if I don't particularly enjoy leigh Alexander and her particular brand of confrontational writing I've decided that I firmly stand on her side of the issue. I mean people have been saying this for months now but there really is no other logical 'side' to be on. Wether you consider yourself a 'gamer' or just someone who enjoys games or whatever, we really need to all be giving her our unconditional support in the face of this unrestricted prejudice and hatred. It has to stop.
Neoriceisgood
Member
1.The doxxing one was discussed earlier, personally I would've have done it but the guy literally said he was open for any and all replies. (I've seen people a lot less abrassive than Alexander not care about publicly showing an email for similar reasons)
2. Gabe from PA is known for horrible temper tantrums on social media. I have no idea which one annoyed Leigh but pretending she's just "insulting the creator of a charity" is such a bold faced lie it made me groan.
3. threat: I don't really see the issue? Most people on twitter aren't polite enough to warn people they'll retweet..
4. The racism one is unreadable. Didn't she say some stuff in the past she apologized for/retracted? I have no idea as I can't read what tweet that is.
5. The career killing tweets are super vague, not sure what I'm supposed to take from that.
The professions thing is unfortunate, but they've been deleted. So I assume she realised those weren't particularly good remarks to make. (honestly though, her exchange seems to be with an account entirely dedicated to telling game journalists how bad they are.)
Interesting note: In looking into the background for these tweets, I ran into around 20 #GG sites hosting them all, lol.
Well just saw this from a tweet :
Is there any surprise someone like her getting a lot of hate on the internet, regardless of gender ?
I never said she was the nicest person, but some of that is cherry-picked or without context.
I was going to say this. Simply starting a charity doesn't fix/forgive severe personality defects.
What I find ironic about Leigh Alexander being the face of "SJW"s is for the longest time she never discussed her gender at all. She even wrote blog posts about why she wasn't a feminist. It was only really after the Giant Bomb appearances and she received so much misogynistic messages that she started to talk about it. Of course it was around this time she joined twitter and came into closer contact with more "gamers" compared to her blog where it was much more like minded commenters.
The first time I saw a hint of what was to come on her blog was when she wrote on a friday to have a good weekend and go outside and do something other than play games and broaden your horizons. The comments were filled with people insulting her for daring to suggest their was anything of worth outside video games. I think this was when she started what has become her defining message that gamers are too obsessed with games above all else and have no perspective on wider culture and society.
The first time I saw a hint of what was to come on her blog was when she wrote on a friday to have a good weekend and go outside and do something other than play games and broaden your horizons. The comments were filled with people insulting her for daring to suggest their was anything of worth outside video games. I think this was when she started what has become her defining message that gamers are too obsessed with games above all else and have no perspective on wider culture and society.
On a semi-related note, she's right. I had always rolled my eyes at the name of the podcast "Weekend Confirmed".
Fucking lol
tonysidaway
Member
Her crime is having an opinion while female.
Why does Adam Baldwin have to be such a piece of shit
In other news I've kind of had a moment of self reflection. Even if I don't particularly enjoy leigh Alexander and her particular brand of confrontational writing I've decided that I firmly stand on her side of the issue. I mean people have been saying this for months now but there really is no other logical 'side' to be on. Wether you consider yourself a 'gamer' or just someone who enjoys games or whatever, we really need to all be giving her our unconditional support in the face of this unrestricted prejudice and hatred. It has to stop.
That's a reasonable response. You don't need to agree with her, like her writings, to acknowledge that in this particular issue she's right.
This is an excerpt of a David Jaffe/Patrick Keplek exchange with some GGters.
The name of that podcast doesn't have anything to do with what you quoted.
tonysidaway
Member
Gamergategate! How on earth, in this torrent of absolute and indisputable truth from the Gamergate people, durst someone make a response capable of falsification?
Patrick Klepek
furiously molesting tim burton
That's a reasonable response. You don't need to agree with her, like her writings, to acknowledge that in this particular issue she's right.
This is an excerpt of a David Jaffe/Patrick Keplek exchange with some GGters.
That's such an odd quote. It makes it sound like I've been kidnapped and brainwashed.
There's a not-agreeing-with-me plague, Patrick. You've been infected and he's worried about you.
I just wanted to quote the "Go to therapy" bark of David hehehe But needed to put some context around it.
edit: But there's some naive hope that you come around to yourself. You "seem to side with them", you just need some help realising your mistakes.
Funyarinpa
Member
They were talking about gamasutra.Nothing will happen to gamespot in terms of gamergate.
voodoopanda
Member
I like how one of the tweets in that Leigh Alexander image are lyrics from Nicki Minaj's verse in Monster that someone else tweeted at her.
jim-jam bongs
Member
As the breadth of their vitriol increases, I feel like someone needs to remind Gamergaters of this.
I am like this as well. While I have never been a fan of Leigh Alexander and her aggressive attitude, the cause and the message is bigger than Leigh Alexander and there is just no way I could morally oppose it because one person uses harsh prose to express her points.
On the other "side" of this, I see a lot of claims it's not about this or that and is about ethics or whatever but I don't see the pursuit of ethics at all. I see an angry mob that seems to be disproportionately interested in attacking a few small name individuals (who predominantly happen to be female) no matter what tactics must be used (doxxing, threats, censorship, etc). The pursuit of ethics would be questioning IGN about the "IGN First" campaigns and big publishers and their PR teams for locking down pre-release Shadows of Mordor footage unless you made some deal with them and review events at extravagant locales and those kinds of things. The pursuit of ethics is not continuing to put your head in the sand about people like Zoe Quinn and insisting that, despite timelines and evidence to the contrary, she used her female parts for positive review scores at Kotaku.
I read the comments section of Leigh Alexander's article on Gamasutra and it's a lot about Anita being a manipulative hack or Zoe Quin and Phil Fish doxxing themselves and other disproved conspiracy theories.
I totally want people to keep an eye open for ethically questionable behaviour... which we were already doing post-"DoritosGate". But GamerGate (though not all participants of it) is simply a front for attacking social progress in the gaming space.
I think it is quite telling that GamerGaters regularly describe their opponents as "Social Justice Warriors" instead of a term for unethical people/behavior.
As the breadth of their vitriol increases, I feel like someone needs to remind Gamergaters of this.
Perfect
Funyarinpa
Member
DISCLAIMER(ish):
I don't hate GamerGate. I no longer love it either. I've seen both sides of the argument, at least I believe so. I think that GG's "journalistic integrity" cause was just a very, very, grave misunderstanding. People saw seemingly compelling evidence, and as a result, hopped on the rage train. It grew and grew, and in the end, it was a fierce mass-scale internet argument. Both sides had their extremists: People acting like "SJW"s (I've seen a tweet where GG'ers are compared to goddamn ISIS) and on the other side, misogynists. Both sides have their level-headed, thoughtful people. Both sides have alleged each other of DDoS'ing in many, many occasions.
GG isn't a bunch of misogynists. GG is a bunch of people that (believe they?) are fighting for journalistic integrity with a pinch of misogynists here and there which are incredibly vocal. Most of GG is also angry, because they are not sexist, yet they are being called so. The whole "Gamer is dead!!!1!!1!!!" thing didn't help either. It was a very, very poor choice to use a word which many people around the world relate to and sympathize with-"gamer"- in an article which only bashes a very vocal minority of a massive group of people.
Overall, I'm kind of sad that this all made TFYC look like a sexist movement. I still don't like Quinn (for various reasons). I like what GG stands for, but fail to see their proof and a clear motive. I like the donation made by 4chan. I appreciate it, in fact. I don't appreciate their general notoriety of sexism. I don't appreciate the "sexist" stamp placed on many GG supporters, but I also don't appreciate the "SJW" label. I appreciate GG's motive and ideals, even though their proof is basically nonexistent, and I appreciate anti-GG's more decisive proof.
I don't think that calling all of GamerGate misogynist won't help anything(nor is it true).
It'll be hard to solve this misunderstanding peacefully, won't it?
The following are opinions, and they should be treated as such. I've yet tried to be logical and concise, but if I'm violating some rules and as a result get banned, I want to say that it'll be worth the loss as long as I get my point across(not meaning getting you to agree with me). Feel free to call me any pleasant or unpleasant words you want, to a certain degree.
I don't hate GamerGate. I no longer love it either. I've seen both sides of the argument, at least I believe so. I think that GG's "journalistic integrity" cause was just a very, very, grave misunderstanding. People saw seemingly compelling evidence, and as a result, hopped on the rage train. It grew and grew, and in the end, it was a fierce mass-scale internet argument. Both sides had their extremists: People acting like "SJW"s (I've seen a tweet where GG'ers are compared to goddamn ISIS) and on the other side, misogynists. Both sides have their level-headed, thoughtful people. Both sides have alleged each other of DDoS'ing in many, many occasions.
GG isn't a bunch of misogynists. GG is a bunch of people that (believe they?) are fighting for journalistic integrity with a pinch of misogynists here and there which are incredibly vocal. Most of GG is also angry, because they are not sexist, yet they are being called so. The whole "Gamer is dead!!!1!!1!!!" thing didn't help either. It was a very, very poor choice to use a word which many people around the world relate to and sympathize with-"gamer"- in an article which only bashes a very vocal minority of a massive group of people.
Overall, I'm kind of sad that this all made TFYC look like a sexist movement. I still don't like Quinn (for various reasons). I like what GG stands for, but fail to see their proof and a clear motive. I like the donation made by 4chan. I appreciate it, in fact. I don't appreciate their general notoriety of sexism. I don't appreciate the "sexist" stamp placed on many GG supporters, but I also don't appreciate the "SJW" label. I appreciate GG's motive and ideals, even though their proof is basically nonexistent, and I appreciate anti-GG's more decisive proof.
I don't think that calling all of GamerGate misogynist won't help anything(nor is it true).
It'll be hard to solve this misunderstanding peacefully, won't it?
I think the Leigh Alexander piece is the defining moment of Gamergate, more then anything to do with Zoe or Anita, and I think that's because it's intent was to inflame.
Leigh likes upsetting people with her writing. Everyone's said it before, and she's not the only person. A lot of writers do it! It gets people talking, and ultimately that's why they write in the first place. To everyone saying they're wrong to be offended over Leigh's article, they're probably right... but I don't think Leigh offended people by accident. I think she knew her article would have the effect it did, though even she didn't know how much of an effect it would have.
Leigh likes upsetting people with her writing. Everyone's said it before, and she's not the only person. A lot of writers do it! It gets people talking, and ultimately that's why they write in the first place. To everyone saying they're wrong to be offended over Leigh's article, they're probably right... but I don't think Leigh offended people by accident. I think she knew her article would have the effect it did, though even she didn't know how much of an effect it would have.
Neoriceisgood
Member
Context?
Or maybe it was when Adam freaking Baldwin started the #gamergate hastag by posting Zoe's five fries story to his enormous audience.
I dunno. Maybe I'm underestimating Adam Baldwin's reach (Since to me he's just that guy who was on Chuck.) but I feel like this thing would have blown up no matter what, although maybe with a less catchy name.
The one thing I feel I hear from people more then anything else in this is the Leigh peice.
Moon_frogger
Member
Adam Baldwin has a lot of Twitter followers. God knows I was one of them until he started spewing his anti choice nonsense a few years back.
That's the only thing they can grab to try to justify their unjustifiable actions. There's nothing else. That's why they keep bringing it.
TheBryanJZX90
Member
In his thread yeah, because it's possible to express your inflated sense of persecution as a gamer without being overly toxic. Annoying, yes, but at least you can do it without harassing other individuals. Everything else that gamergate stands for at this point is either misogyny or already disproven conspiracy theories, and those are kept out of this thread.
Neoriceisgood
Member
He's got 195k followers, I consider that significant.
A big reason you still hear about her article is also the fact that unlike most other claims, she did write an article. GG had tons of "smoking bullets" (silverstring media, zoe quinn, the media mailing list, and so on and so on); but all the conspiratorial crap gets debunked.
You can't "debunk" Leighs article, merely misinterpret it. That's the reason the complaints survived a lot longer than any other part of #GG.
But there are a lot of threads like this one, all over the internet, and the Leigh piece is a rallying call in many of them.
In the last few days, I've discovered that this doesn't go as far as you'd think it would. I'm surrounded by people who can't be bothered to dig deeper into things and just accept the first thing they hear, and so I keep hearing about "the woman who did a bunch of terrible things for good reviews" from friends who don't know any better.
It's also really hard to convince them otherwise, since they've seen the "really detailed videos" from people who "did their homework to uncover this stuff" - The biggest asset that GamerGate has is that most people can't be bothered to be skeptical and do their own research.
Neoriceisgood
Member
Yeah they have a huge gish gallop thing going on with their videos & giant conspiratorial images. I'm mostly talking about the people on the fringes who recognise the "core" of GG is a bit odd but still think they have a point e.g. about Leigh etc.
I've looked into the #GG hashtag before and a lot of the people there right now seem to want tot stop Digra from taking over the world so..
I didn't see that piece get nearly the attention that for instance, Internet Aristocrat's videos did on Reddit. Just go on reddit and you'll find far more posts about Zoe Quinn than Alexander, and that's even after mass nuking of threads.
Yep, #GamerGate is about ethics.
The guy who works at github that deleted the GamerGate harrasment organisation repository? Now being harrassed in person.
The guy who works at github that deleted the GamerGate harrasment organisation repository? Now being harrassed in person.
jim-jam bongs
Member
There isn't really a hate campaign being run against 4chan, everyone but 4chan has always pretty much hated 4chan. People were just more capable of ignoring them entirely until a group of anons became the main instigators of the most unpleasant aspects of the Gamergate fiasco.
tonysidaway
Member
Social justice paladins: getting lawful good all over your arse, and not giving a damn about your gamergate bleating.
Funyarinpa
Member
I just read an article that bashed TFYC and the 4chan donation. It went on and on about how 4chan was a misogynistic madhouse and the donation and Vivian James were only created to harass Zoe Quinn. If there are any more articles out there with the same ideology as this, the situation is really sad.
As a side note, that sentence was the pre-edited state of my last post.
the article
If we say that there is a part of gaming community that is misogynist and keeps harassing women, that's indeed not debunkable. I also think that that misinterpretation might've caused the whole debacle, but...
... can you really interpret something the "correct" way? Is it not possible for people with different points of view to see and comprehend things differently? IMO one way isn't more correct and the other- one common interpretation just set off a very, very unpleasant reaction.
tonysidaway
Member
I read Leigh Alexander's actual article, all the way through, around five weeks ago. At the time women were fucking running for their lives. In fear of death or rape. So don't pull that crap about Leigh Alexander making this happen. This misogynistic shit has been going on for _years_. The only change is now we're talking about it instead of pretending it doesn't happen or doesn't matter.
tonysidaway
Member
That's because Gamergate realised it needed to erase its origins, and Gamergate is a fundamentally misogynistic campaign that originated as a huge personal calumny against Zoe Quinn.
Funyarinpa
Member
I propose a little game.
#GAMERGATE DRINKING GAME
---RULES---
1-Open twitter and search for "#GamerGate".
2-Start scrolling down slowly.
3-Take a shot every time you see the word "harassment".
(Alternatively, you can use "sexist" or "femnist" or "misogynist".)
4-Try not to die from alcohol poisoning in twenty minutes. The longest to survive wins!
---RULES---
1-Open twitter and search for "#GamerGate".
2-Start scrolling down slowly.
3-Take a shot every time you see the word "harassment".
(Alternatively, you can use "sexist" or "femnist" or "misogynist".)
4-Try not to die from alcohol poisoning in twenty minutes. The longest to survive wins!
Neoriceisgood
Member
Leigh and many others have, at several points, specified what was meant by the article; plenty of #GGers still see it as an invariable attack on all gamers ever despite this.
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