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[Moon_frogger]

I went on a little Twitter rant mocking gamergate today. Felt good but didn't accomplish much. They seem to repeat the 'you haven't done your research' defense. Funny that they've almost completely moved on from zoe Quinn and are now calling it 'consumer revolt' because of the Intel thing.

 

[partyphone]

yeah the problem is Intel kowtowed to a small, vocal group of jerks.

boycotting is a perfectly legitimate tactic and claiming as such shouldn't be seen as outrageous or controversial.

 

[Corpekata]

Boycotting is a legitimate tactic. They're totally within their rights to tell people who they pay money to that they won't buy from them if they continue supporting something they don't like. Would you rather they be forced to buy from them?

If that's all TB said (And I have no idea if it is, I've just seen a few posts about it) I'm totally with him.

What does "Would you rather they be forced to buy from them?" in this context even mean?

And let's not pretend like it's all about stuff they actually buy. The average gamer does not frequent Scottrade, one of the first advertisers to pull out. It's very much not about informing a company they frequent to pull out, it's about attacking the site through any and all companies that give them patronage.

 

[Nephrahim]

What does "Would you rather they be forced to buy from them?" in this context even mean?

And let's not pretend like it's all about stuff they actually buy. The average gamer does not frequent Scottrade, one of the first advertisers to pull out. It's very much not about informing a company they frequent to pull out, it's about attacking any and all companies that give them patronage.

The two companies I've seen them target have been Intel and Nvidia. Obviously if they're telling scottrade that they're going to stop using their services... I mean, I do hope scottrade is smart enough to realize these guys probably aren't their customers... but by average I'm sure some of them are. And again, in other boycotts, I'm sure people have done the same thing.

 

[Corpekata]

The two companies I've seen them target have been Intel and Nvidia. Obviously if they're telling scottrade that they're going to stop using their services... I mean, I do hope scottrade is smart enough to realize these guys probably aren't their customers... but by average I'm sure some of them are. And again, in other boycotts, I'm sure people have done the same thing.

Scottrade pulled out weeks ago, it was the first company. It is what spurred them on to things like Intel. Intel was just the first big get of the campaign.

 

[JackDT]

Do whatever you want, but just don't tell me it's to defend gamers. I'm a gamer too. My favorite writers and sites are being pushed right out of the industry.

 

[Nephrahim]

Scottrade pulled out weeks ago, it was the first company. It is what spurred them on to things like Intel. Intel was just the first big get of the campaign.

Oh really? I didn't hear. Some executive at Scottstrade that proboly calls all games "Nintendo" got spooked I bet.

 

[Wereroku]

What do these boycotts achieve? Gamasutra is owned by UBM, a huge conglomerate that also owns the GDC. They don't sound to me like people who are given to jumping in and shaking things up because of a wee controversy. RPS seems to have its own maturing subscription model, so it's probably not vulnerable.

What could the Gamergate people realistically hope to achieve in the four or five weeks it has left as a viable campaigning group?

Just because their parent company is profitable doesn't mean they don't have to make money. If they didn't care they wouldn't have ads to begin with. If they start costing to much they will be dropped.

 

[luxarific]

Do whatever you want, but just don't tell me it's to defend gamers. I'm a gamer too. My favorite writers and sites are being pushed right out of the industry.

This whole mess has confirmed how much I don't want to be called a gamer. Previously, I wouldn't have identified myself as such to people I know in real life due to the perception of gamers as anti-social, self-obsessed, immature people who don't have real lives. The actions of GamerGaters have just confirmed that the stereotype of what a "gamer" is has some basis in reality.

 

[Nephrahim]

This whole mess has confirmed how much I don't want to be called a gamer. Previously, I wouldn't have identified myself as such to people I know in real life due to the perception of gamers as anti-social, self-obsessed, immature people who don't have real lives. The actions of GamerGaters have just confirmed that the stereotype of what a "gamer" is has some basis in reality.

I was going to say "I don't mind being called a gamer!" But you know what... you're right. If anyone is paying attention to this I would HATE to be associated with this bullshit.

 

[Moon_frogger]

There's a universe of difference between 'gamer' and 'gamergater' I mean, feel free to not use the term but I will continue to identify every single poster on neogaf as a 'gamer'.

 

[Xscapist]

The ironic thing is that it was video game journalists who named us "gamers."

The first time the word appeared in print in relation to video game fans was in "Arcade Alley," the first dedicated video game magazine column (which later spun off into the first video game magazine, Electronic Games).

 

[More_Badass]

There's a universe of difference between 'gamer' and 'gamergater' I mean, feel free to not use the term but I will continue to identify every single poster on neogaf as a 'gamer'.

Same here. I'll always stick by the definition that a gamer is simply someone who plays games.

I play games. I'm a gamer

They should be ashamed by how their actions reflect on the medium. We shouldn't be ashamed of enjoying our hobby.

 

[Moon_frogger]

Right? If you're ashamed to be associated with people who enjoy gaming, what difference does It make if you call yourself 'gamer' or 'person who spends a lot of time playing games'? It's semantics and If you're really that worried about distancing yourself from the hobby and culture....maybe get a new hobby?

 

[Cyrano]

Same here. I'll always stick by the definition that a gamer is simply someone who plays games.

I play games. I'm a gamer

They should be ashamed by how their actions reflect on the medium. We shouldn't be ashamed of enjoying our hobby.

This is missing the point of what Leigh's talking about.

 

[deathkiller]

This is missing the point of what Leigh's talking about.

Leigh talk about lots of things, there is not an unique point. The main thing that people disagree is how she use the description of "nerd gamer" and "nerd gamer culture" as a negative when not as an insult. That is not "the point" of the article but is something that when you "scan" the article (like most people do when reading long articles) may anger you and make you ignore the points of the article.

As I said before I in general agree with the points of the article but not with how they are expressed.

 

[Cyrano]

Leigh talk about lots of things, there is not an unique point. The main thing that people disagree is how she use the description of "nerd gamer" and "nerd gamer culture" as a negative when not as an insult. That is not "the point" of the article but is something that when you "scan" the article (like most people do when reading long articles) may anger you and make you ignore the points of the article.

As I said before I in general agree with the points of the article but not with how they are expressed.

I'm not saying that she doesn't, but in the case of the article which is the most frequently cited in all of this, there is definitely a unique point, and it's right in the title: 'Gamers' are over.

You don’t want to ‘be divisive?’ Who’s being divided, except for people who are okay with an infantilized cultural desert of shitty behavior and people who aren’t? What is there to ‘debate’?

I mean, you're free to disagree with the argumentation of the article, but I'm fairly certain that she's being clear in what she's trying get across.

 

[Ayt]

Unrelated to any recent comments, I find it very impressive that the wiki article covering gamergate is so well done.

 

[r1chard]

Unrelated to any recent comments, I find it very impressive that the wiki article covering gamergate is so well done.

Of course GamerGate folk themselves believe that wikipedia "admins" are against them, so y'know... lots of posts in r/KotakuInAction about it (for example).


Edit: sorry, I assumed by "wiki" you meant Wikipedia... sorry if not.

 

[deathkiller]

I'm not saying that she doesn't, but in the case of the article which is the most frequently cited in all of this, there is definitely a unique point, and it's right in the title: 'Gamers' are over.

I mean, you're free to disagree with the argumentation of the article, but I'm fairly certain that she's being clear in what she's trying get across.

I, for example, consider "Cultural desert" and "shitty behavior" two points, putting them together in a sentence/article doesn't make them automatically one point. Then if the point is that "Cultural desert" implies "shitty behavior" then I'll have to disagree with that.

 

[link4117]

Boycotting is a legitimate tactic. They're totally within their rights to tell people who they pay money to that they won't buy from them if they continue supporting something they don't like. Would you rather they be forced to buy from them?

If that's all TB said (And I have no idea if it is, I've just seen a few posts about it) I'm totally with him.

It's pretty much all he said. He went along the lines of:
Conversation and writing a disagreement is fine, however many sites were banning people for trying to start a conversation; not flaming, actual well written discussion. Then they felt they had no power and let advertisers know that that X was the stance that Y site was standing for. It's a very good discussion since they also bring up the fact that Intel is huge and would not bow to just a vocal minority. It's all about the brand and the people that represent them because they advertise there.

If people actually sat down, stopped drawing lines in the sand, and talked about things in a mature manner things never would have progressed as far as a boycott.pulling ad support. The partisanship and the validating of extremists on both sides, especially from those who call them professionals in the industry, is disappointing though. I'll probably stop paying attention to the whole thing since it really is disheartening to see a community reduced to each side calling the other names.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

I've seen several GGers mention Neogaf when talking about sites that ban #GG discussion.

Don't a lot of these guys simply wish to throw around their conspiracies without moderation & throw a hissie fit the moment a website doesn't stand for that?

 

[CurlyW]

What about that article that the patron saint of Gamergate wrote a few years back that insulted gamers about 50 times worse than LA's article? (Sorry, couldn't find the link)

Edit: Found one of them. Actually from 2014 http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...ng-raped-by-dorky-weirdos-on-Grand-Theft-Auto

 

[Neoriceisgood]

What about that article that the patron saint of Gamergate wrote a few years back that insulted gamers about 50 times worse than LA's article? (Sorry, couldn't find the link)

He's ideologically aligned with them, this has never been about them "getting insulted".

 

[Lime]

this has never been about them "getting insulted".

Sarcasm?

 

[deathkiller]

Sarcasm?

Well GGs more inclined to believe conspiracy theories have always being far more obsessed with the fear of "games being tainted with SJW ideology with the help of journalists" than with "getting insulted".

I think that they only play with the whole "getting insulted" to get more adepts than anything else.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Sarcasm?

I'm not sure what about my post registered as sarcastic?

They're using Leigh's "insults" as leverage against her because they don't like her to begin with, it's fairly obvious when you look at how readily they embrace people like Nero. (who has literally done everything they pretend leigh has.)

 

[Lime]

Oh, you mean the actual reason for what they're doing what they're doing and not their excuse to do what they do.

Because so much of this shit has at least been under the veil or excuse of poor gamers being oh so oppressed, stigmatized and victimized.

 

[More_Badass]

This is missing the point of what Leigh's talking about.

Not be to rude, but I don't really care what she thinks a gamer should or shoudn't be. It's just an opinion.

"Games culture’ is a petri dish of people who know so little about how human social interaction and professional life works that they can concoct online ‘wars’ about social justice or ‘game journalism ethics,’ straight-faced, and cause genuine human consequences. Because of video games.

Personally I think that's such a jaded narrow minded description of "games culture", formed and influenced by the certain type of behavior online that has given "gamer" the negative connotations we've talked about before in the thread

"Gamer culture" isn't divisive. Certain groups like to frame it as such, but today it's more inclusive and wide spread than ever. My dad plays games. My mom plays games. My younger brother plays games. My four year cousin plays games. It can be mobile games, or Madden, or indies, or freeware game jam entries, or the newest AAA titles. If you play games, you're participating in the medium, you're a gamer.

Now there are different ways of engaging in that hobby, the same way some people enjoy b-movie shlock or indie dramas or only watch blockblusters. But video games can and should appeal to a wide variety of tastes, preferences, age groups. Movies do, books do, tv does. Like every other form of entertainment, video games are enjoyed by a diverse range of people; only a fraction falling into that "anti-social petri dish" definition of gamer

So that's why I subscribe to the simple definition. You play games, you're a gamer. Simple as that

 

[andromeduck]

This whole mess has confirmed how much I don't want to be called a gamer. Previously, I wouldn't have identified myself as such to people I know in real life due to the perception of gamers as anti-social, self-obsessed, immature people who don't have real lives. The actions of GamerGaters have just confirmed that the stereotype of what a "gamer" is has some basis in reality.

funny, I feel the same of these so-called feminists

 

[Lime]

funny, I feel the same of these so-called feminists

What is it that you don't like about these so-called feminists? What have they done? And how would you typically align yourself as in terms of feminist values?

 

[lexi]

A few weeks ago I saw the comparison of GamerGate crusaders to the Tea Party movement, that comparison is becoming more and more apt. They keep growing in power and influence.

How utterly depressing.

 

[Dr_LucienSanchez]

A random question, but why do gamergaters call Christina Sommers their mom (and the 4chan cartoon girl their daughter)? Is this just some inside joke that's gained traction while I've been ignoring the topic?

I've always found their adoption of key personalities as heroes remarkably strange, and this kind of even surpasses that.

 

[ClosingADoor]

This is really sad. A (compared to the total amount of people playing games) tiny group of people is upset over nothing and are now trying to shut down websites?

I hope advertisers just ignore it. Enough websites are already in trouble due to the changing market and it would be sad if this would lead to more closures and people losing their jobs.

In the end we will have a few big websites under large corporations and a ton of (in my opinion unaccountable) Youtube personalities. I don't think that will solve any trouble with games journalism we see now.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

A random question, but why do gamergaters call Christina Sommers their mom (and the 4chan cartoon girl their daughter)? Is this just some inside joke that's gained traction while I've been ignoring the topic?

I've always found their adoption of key personalities as heroes remarkably strange, and this kind of even surpasses that.

Some (in my memory more fringe) feminists believe that the only women a misogynist can truly love are their own mother & daughter.

Call it playing into an unfortunate stereotype, if anything. (I honestly can't remember where I've heard this from btw, it was years ago.)

 

[Lime]

In the end we will have a few big websites under large corporations and a ton of (in my opinion unaccountable) Youtube personalities. I don't think that will solve any trouble with games journalism we see now.

At least they won't have those pesky womenfolk (or non-Whites or non-heterosexuals) around to tell the trve gamers that they're all bigots! Yup, definitely worth it!

 

[Vipershark]

He's ideologically aligned with them, this has never been about them "getting insulted".

Milo has not only apologized and said that he was wrong multiple times for the things he's said in the past (pro-GG has brought his article(s) up to him many times and he HAS responded about what he said), he's even gone as far as making a Twitch account and buying several games to play and interact with the community.

The guy has some really whacked-out opinions and a lot of pro-GG disagree with his other viewpoints, but he's at least done things to try to rectify his past behavior in regards to decrying gamers.

Leigh still continues to be toxic in general to this day.

Which person do you think GG is going to side with, honestly?

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Milo has not only apologized and said that he was wrong multiple times for the things he's said in the past (pro-GG has brought his article(s) up to him many times and he HAS responded about what he said), he's even gone as far as making a Twitch account and buying several games to play and interact with the community.
The guy has some really whacked-out opinions and a lot of pro-GG disagree with his other viewpoints, but he's at least done things to try to rectify his past behavior in regards to decrying gamers.
Leigh still continues to be toxic in general to this day.
Which person do you think GG is going to side with, honestly?

Nero is incredibly toxic, just not to "GG" in general. Did you see Deviever getting hounded out of #GG the other day?

GG purely sides with Nero cause they don't care about him being toxic as long as it's not to "Gamers", the most oppressed minority in the world.

 

[Lime]

Milo has not only apologized and said that he was wrong multiple times for the things he's said in the past (pro-GG has brought his article(s) up to him many times and he HAS responded about what he said), he's even gone as far as making a Twitch account and buying several games to play and interact with the community.

The guy has some really whacked-out opinions and a lot of pro-GG disagree with his other viewpoints, but he's at least done things to try to rectify his past behavior in regards to decrying gamers.

Leigh still continues to be toxic in general to this day.

Which person do you think GG is going to side with, honestly?

 

[Vipershark]

Nero is incredibly toxic, just not to "GG" in general. Did you see Deviever getting hounded out of #GG the other day?

GG purely sides with Nero cause they don't care about him being toxic as long as it's not to "Gamers", the most oppressed minority in the world.

Don't get me wrong, I don't trust Nero and I certainly think he's in it for the money and publicity himself (as is Devi Ever but that's a whole other conversation) but the guy has contacts and reach that 99% of other people in GG simply don't.

He's not ideal, but he's the best ally GG has. It's pretty obvious why people want him around so much, even if they strongly disagree with him on a lot of things.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Don't get me wrong, I don't trust Nero and I certainly think he's in it for the money and publicity himself (as is Devi Ever but that's a whole other conversation) but the guy has contacts and reach that 99% of other people in GG simply don't.

He's not ideal, but he's the best ally GG has. It's pretty obvious why people want him around so much, even if they strongly disagree with him on a lot of things.

I don't see how you can say this but consider Leigh more toxic than Nero.

 

[Vipershark]

I don't see how you can say this but consider Leigh more toxic than Nero.

Have you actually looked at her twitter account?
There are many screencaps and archives of her flat out directly insulting people and making all kinds of crazy tweets and later deleting them and places where she actually brags about "ending careers" among other things.

Unless I've been missing a whole lot, (and not counting the Devi Ever stuff since I'm not really caught up on that whole fiasco), Nero is just tweeting about his terrible political opinions in between GG tweets rather than actually aiming his vitriol at specific people [who aren't the main antagonists to GG].

I don't like the guy and I don't agree with much of what he says but he hasn't been acting like a flat out jerk, even if his opinions are stupid.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Have you actually looked at her twitter account?
There are many screencaps and archives of her flat out directly insulting people and making all kinds of crazy tweets and later deleting them and places where she actually brags about "ending careers" among other things.

Unless I've been missing a whole lot, (and not counting the Devi Ever stuff since I'm not really caught up on that whole fiasco), Nero is just tweeting about his terrible political opinions in between GG tweets rather than actually aiming his vitriol at specific people [who aren't the main antagonists to GG].

I don't like the guy and I don't agree with much of what he says but he hasn't been acting like a flat out jerk, even if his opinions are stupid.

Yeah I actually follow Leigh Alexander so I see most of her tweets pass by, I'm not basing my opinion off of some shoddy compilation of tweets. (I'm assuming you mean the one that pretends Gabe from Penny Arcade is some sweet innocent charity donator and not a known shit stirrer?)


I don't know what to tell you if you don't think @Nero is vitriolic or insulting ... the dude's political views are literally dehumanizing or insulting entire groups of people for who they are.

Though I guess that doesn't count unless I make a chart with some red arrows pointing to how bad the dude gets or something?

(Apology or not, this is the dude who when he was in no way involved in gaming himself described gamers as "the yellow underpants bridage"; a hero of the writen word.)

 

[Vipershark]

Yeah I actually follow Leigh Alexander so I see most of her tweets pass by, I'm not basing my opinion off of some shoddy compilation of tweets. (I'm assuming you mean the one that pretends Gabe from Penny Arcade is some sweet innocent charity donator and not a known shit stirrer?)

No, I'm referring to a whole lot more than that. Just today, for example, after the news of two more advertisers pulling out of Gamasutra, Leigh posted a whole bunch of tweets which were all later deleted. I don't know if she was drunk or what but she's clearly got some issues. It doesn't take some artifacted jpegs with too many red lines to see that.

(Apology or not, this is the dude who when he was in no way involved in gaming himself described gamers as "the yellow underpants bridage"; a hero of the writen word.)

Did you read his apologies? The dude actually (paraphrasingly) said "I'm sorry, I didn't know anything about you guys and didn't understand the passion that you put into games".
He owned up to the fact that he had no idea what he was talking about and apologized for jumping to stupid conclusions. We can argue all day about whether he really meant it or not but the guy made an effort to show that he was wrong and wanted to make up for it.
Leigh still hasn't done that, by the way.

I agree with you that Nero's political views aren't cool but they're views that he's entitled to have, whether we agree with him or not. As much as I believe that he's wrong about that stuff, his opinions on things outside of GG... don't have anything to do with GG.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Last I checked Leigh didn't call anyone the yellow diaper brigade or accused them of being responsible for mass shootings. What should she apologize for?

I've seen her clarify the intent of her article several times & she's apologized on twitter for some of the physical descriptions regarding clothing clothes etc.

 

[tonysidaway]

Milo has not only apologized and said that he was wrong multiple times for the things he's said in the past (pro-GG has brought his article(s) up to him many times and he HAS responded about what he said), he's even gone as far as making a Twitch account and buying several games to play and interact with the community.

The guy has some really whacked-out opinions and a lot of pro-GG disagree with his other viewpoints, but he's at least done things to try to rectify his past behavior in regards to decrying gamers.

Leigh still continues to be toxic in general to this day.

Which person do you think GG is going to side with, honestly?

The shitty one who makes up lies, of course.

 

[Silky]

The shitty one who makes up lies, of course.

So Milo right

 

[ClosingADoor]

Don't get me wrong, I don't trust Nero and I certainly think he's in it for the money and publicity himself (as is Devi Ever but that's a whole other conversation) but the guy has contacts and reach that 99% of other people in GG simply don't.

He's not ideal, but he's the best ally GG has. It's pretty obvious why people want him around so much, even if they strongly disagree with him on a lot of things.

The guy you can't trust, is in it for the money and publicity is the best ally they have. Sounds like a fun group to hang out with...

 

[Neoriceisgood]

I'm still extremely confused how those descriptions are meant to make Leigh look like the bad one tbh.

 

[JDSN]

The guy you can't trust, is in it for the money and publicity is the best ally they have. Sounds like a fun group to hang out with...

Also the one that called a prostitute to the woman that he owed money, but yeah, Leigh is the toxic one hahaha.