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[Mass Effect]

Someone please explain to me how this thread turned into a discussion about whether Drake is a mass murderer or not?

This isn't the first time I've seen this happen to an Uncharted thread. Is this common?

 

[Red Chocobo]

That's Naughty Dogs problem.

No. It's your problem for taking a video game too seriously.

 

[test_account]

Most casually mourderous asshole in gaming? I thought Mario held that crown. Mario could easily have jumped over or runned passed the enemies in most cases. Instead, he squishes or beat them to a pulp, burn them, and sometimes throw them outside of a cliff while they're being alive! He smiles and are happy afterwards. He also beats women in Smash Bros.

Spoiler

Seriously, i dont see why these discussions have to be so serious. Yes, its violence, but its also games.

http://abload.de/img/bestversion1ms01.png

I dont think that comic is ment to say that people cant have any opinions about something, but rather ask a indirect question about how interesting the complaining is to others.

 

[……forgetit]

Someone please explain to me how this thread turned into a discussion about whether Drake is a mass murderer or not?

This isn't the first time I've seen this happen to an Uncharted thread. Is this common?

Only every uncharted thread ever.

 

[Marcel]

Someone please explain to me how this thread turned into a discussion about whether Drake is a mass murderer or not?

This isn't the first time I've seen this happen to an Uncharted thread. Is this common?

It's very common because Uncharted/ND fans are intensely defensive about any negative criticism, even about the half-joke 'Drake/Joel is a mass murderer' thing.

 

[John Kowalski]

aww, he got chris redfield'd

 

[RE_Player]

That's Naughty Dogs problem. They wanted to have pseudo-realistic graphics and even want to get more "realistic" on current gen. It was also their decision to make him a "nice guy" in cutscenes and a psychopath in gameplay (including making fun of mass slaughtering foreigners).

Replace those enemies with aliens and make Drake some robot or something like that and I wouldn't complain about it.

I would also be okay with it in case Drake was actually a psychopath in cutscenes as well. Then at least it would fit together and make sense.

You are thinking way too hard about these games. They are dumb fun action games. Nothing "realistic" about them. The graphics being really good shouldn't make you judge the characters like they were in our society.

They are practically Die Hard stories with a wise cracking protagonist mowing down guys that are doing some wrong or getting in his way.

 

[Red Chocobo]

It's very common because Uncharted/ND fans are intensely defensive

Defence is only a response to offence.

 

[Ratrat]

Sounds like these types of games just really aren't your thing. If you look around, you'll notice this is prevalent is the majority of action games and movies. Maybe if you check out some other examples or games that you do like that you didn't notice this in, then Uncharted will bother you less.

What other shooters have goofy protagonists who aren't antiheroes who kill numerous enemies while cracking jokes?

I'm playing devils advocate as it doesn't actually bother me. Of course from a gameplay perspective they could do better.

 

[The Lamp]

It's very common because Uncharted/ND fans are intensely defensive about any negative criticism, even about the half-joke 'Drake/Joel is a mass murderer' thing.

I just don't get why an action hero killing people matters when every other major male gaming protagonist in non-Nintendo gaming kills lots of people too.

 

[Marcel]

aww, he got chris redfield'd

The neck is nowhere near the Chris Redfield level.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Naughty Dog has (in many people's minds, including myself) created some of the best looking games on a console during the last generation, arguably the best whether artistically or technically. It's fine if you don't think they look the best, because games like God of War 3 and Killzone are surely right next to it in my opinion, but it's really dumb to act like their games are just average visually compared to other console developers.

Just look at Uncharted 3, or Uncharted 2 when it came out in 2009. Was there anything that looked anywhere close to it on a technical level on consoles up to that point? I think a person would be hard pressed to say otherwise. No one should be bringing PCs into the mix as there could be any form of hardware in there. So, what's there to talk about?

Shin, for some reason he seems to be picking on ND's games! He's not going to agree with anyone on this!

 

[Crossing Eden]

He's safe from Drake's unjustified murderous rampage as he's not the guy you kill.

Are you really saying that Drake killing people who unconditionally follow this person,

Even to the point of not flinching as their own leader kills them
and shoot anyone on sight, including chasing someone with a helicopter. Is "unjustified?" Really?

 

[Marcel]

I just don't get why an action hero killing people matters when every other major male gaming protagonist in non-Nintendo gaming kills lots of people too.

It's not a conversation to be had in this type of thread, where people are merely poking the bear, so to speak.

 

[jimi_dini]

No. It's your problem for taking a video game too seriously.

Those video games want to be realistic, "mature" and also be part movie part game. That was Naughty Dog's choice.

A movie, that had the content that Uncharted has, would be laughed out in cinemas. It's sort of like an Indiana Jones movie from the '80s, but with 20 times the body count.

I do have a problem if only Uncharted gets labeled as some horrible piece of media if there are countless things doing the same and have released in the past as well. (ie nothing new)

Don't worry, the new pseudo Tomb Raider has the same problem that Uncharted has. On the other hand I'm pretty sure that this game, that shouldn't have been called Tomb Raider, wouldn't exist in case Uncharted would have never been made. It's a copy of Uncharted with a bit of rape mixed in.

 

[Vroadstar]

The point of video games are to kill people. Right. Sorry, I forgot for a minute. Thanks for helping out.

Call the police there's a serial killer on the lose.... and oh better get a lawyer too

I challenge y'all to name the AAA developer who will write a non-laughable, non-douchebag serial killer antihero/player character.

Look at his post on another thread...I guess he is on a crusade.

 

[Darknight]

When did Lara actually get a pass? I remember plenty of people calling it out on this discrepancy.

Google tomb raider and ludonarrative dissonance and you'll find plenty of articles.

Im talking about GAF.

Any time there is a thread about TR reboot, no mention of murder or how LC is a murderous person. Yet anyone time Uncharted gets a thread for a fucking picture of Drake and we get the murder bullshit. It could a thread about the next location for Uncharted and we get the same bullshit. Kinda like a double standard in this case and a tiring one.

 

[……forgetit]

Look at this evil mother fucker, this psychopath. Everywhere he goes he murders woodland creatures and little slime people. Why? Just because they kidnapped his sister because they thought she was a princess. If this psyco little fucker had waited for the proper authorities everything would have been fine. Or better yet he could have launched a proper complaint with the pig people's super visor explaining that his sister is not a princess, but no, he runs in there sword swinging and murders the whole base. Pig people have feelings to you know.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

aww, he got chris redfield'd

Not really, Chris Redfield has biceps the size of Drake's torso, I don't think Drake can punch boulders.

 

[oSoLucky]

What other shooters have goofy protagonists who aren't antiheroes who kill numerous enemies while cracking jokes?

I'm playing devils advocate as it doesn't actually bother me. Of course from a gameplay perspective they could do better.

Doesn't matter if they're goofy or jokers or not. There are very few games that try to tackle the emotional implications of killing so many people. Just because Drake is a funny guy doesn't mean that for some reason he's the sole character that shouldn't get a pass.

 

[IAmRandom31]

Uncharted 2 is the most badass murder simulation ever made.

Made it look like so much fun I almost went out and did it

 

[Marcel]

Look at his post on another thread...I guess he is on a crusade.

What's my crusade again? I'm not powerful enough to actually do anything, you know. I'm just another jabroni on NeoGAF, just like everyone else here.

 

[Kinyou]

I just don't get why an action hero killing people matters when every other major male gaming protagonist in non-Nintendo gaming kills lots of people too.

Uncharted is hardly the only game getting called out on this

BioShock Infinite, ludonarrative dissonance, and “next-gen game design”

Tomb Raider: On Ludonarrative Dissonance

Ludonarrative Dissonance and GTA V

Max Payne 3 and the problem of narrative dissonance

it's a general problem with games becoming more realistic and aspiring to resemble movies.

Im talking about GAF.

Any time there is a thread about TR reboot, no mention of murder or how LC is a murderous person. Yet anyone time Uncharted gets a thread for a fucking picture of Drake and we get the murder bullshit. It could a thread about the next location for Uncharted and we get the same bullshit. Kinda like a double standard in this case and a tiring one.

I don't know what TR threads you have been in, but I saw people bringing it up as well.

 

[RE_Player]

Call the police there's a serial killer on the lose.... and oh better get a lawyer too



Look at his post on another thread...I guess he is on a crusade.

That's actually quite sad. Sorry to get involved in someone's trolling.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

I don't know why people are expecting Nathan Drake to suddenly become Doctor Who.

Uncharted is a treasure-hunting TPS, not a "Press R1 to put throw your hands up in surrender and negotiate" endless runner.

 

[Sir Blaming]

oh hey guys are you talking about the new mo.....
.......
.......
......
Oh ok, ciao.

 

[Tizoc]

*Looks at thread title*
Pfft that's nothing compared to Guybrush's atrocities in Monkey Island 2.

 

[Ratrat]

Doesn't matter if they're goofy or jokers or not. There are very few games that try to tackle the emotional implications of killing so many people. Just because Drake is a funny guy doesn't mean that for some reason he's the sole character that shouldn't get a pass.

True. But perhaps it's somewhat understandable then, why it gets singled out by some.

 

[Marcel]

*Looks at thread title*
Pfft that's nothing compared to Guybrush's atrocities in Monkey Island 2.

Nathan Drake is no Lara Croft, Kefka or Ezio, that's for sure.

 

[Seik]

Dat thread title change. :lol

Ok who did it?

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

It's especially silly since he is always defending himself against others who are firing upon him.

Exactly. ND goes out of their way to show the other people as unequivocal bad guys. It's an adventure shooter.

Really? I thought you of all people would relish playing as a mass murderer

He's safe from Drake's unjustified murderous rampage as he's not the guy you kill.

#DrakeWasRight

 

[test_account]

What other shooters have goofy protagonists who aren't antiheroes who kill numerous enemies while cracking jokes?

I'm playing devils advocate as it doesn't actually bother me. Of course from a gameplay perspective they could do better.

I dont think there are that many jokes being cracked while doing the killing.

 

[oSoLucky]

Uncharted is hardly the only game getting called out on this

BioShock Infinite, ludonarrative dissonance, and “next-gen game design”

Tomb Raider: On Ludonarrative Dissonance

Ludonarrative Dissonance and GTA V

Max Payne 3 and the problem of narrative dissonance

it's a general problem with games becoming more realistic and aspiring to resemble movies.


I don't know what TR threads you have been in, but I saw people bringing it up as well.

I don't really read gaming sites much anymore, so it probably seems like Drake gets it the worst because people actually talk about Uncharted here whereas not many still give a shit about BioShock Infinite or Max Payne 3.

 

[Red Chocobo]

Uncharted 2 actually had this great moment where Drake tries to save a guy he doesn't even know. I thought it was a great human moment inbetween all the hollywood action.

 

[Marcel]

#DrakeWasRight

The real villain is Sully, the man who taught him to kill. Drake is only a tool of Sully's vengeance.

 

[Exokell]

So self defense is murder? Cool

 

[ScionOfTheRisingSun]

Nathan Drake isn't real though, so the real sociopath monster is the person in front of the screen, having his medulla oblongata gently jerked with each giddy squeeze of that trigger.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

I dig this model. I'm not sure if Nolan's voice will fit this new face though.

 

[John Kowalski]

The neck is nowhere near the Chris Redfield level.

But those arms... i guess that's what an everyman ought to look like nowadays.

 

[EmptySpace]

so we just ran this thread to the ground by another bullshit argument people are trying so hard to validate and justify.

worse is that even this bullshit is talked about by the games media peeps.

so fucking depressing.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Hot af tbh

 

[Gray Matter]

This thread went from a simple photo of UC4 drake, to another "violence in games" thread.

 

[Ricky_R]

Looking mighty good.

Thread got infected though. Might as well be locked now.

 

[Kinyou]

so we just ran this thread to the ground by another bullshit argument people are trying so hard to validate and justify.

worse is that even this bullshit is talked about by the games media peeps.

so fucking depressing.

It's even worse. Even Amy Hennig talks about it :O

"Amy [Hennig, Uncharted creator] has a name for this," explained lead designer Richard Lemarchand at the GameCity festival last year. "She calls it 'the uncanny valley of narrative'. Her theory is, because the acting performances have become so good, it makes this issue of the game parts stand out even more.

"In fact, if you play through to the end of Uncharted 2, Amy references this issue. At the climax, the main bad guy Lazarevic says to Drake, 'You're no different to me. How many lives have you taken today?' We do think about it and we're always looking for creative ways to address that issue."

So far, what the developer has tried to do is place Nathan in obvious and immediate peril at the beginning of every shoot-out. He never fires first, and even when he sneaks up on an enemy and snaps their neck, he's always in a situation of mortal danger. We must decide for ourselves if this "absolution by context" argument is adequate.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/gamesblog/2012/may/18/max-payne-3-story-vs-action

How dares this "Uncharted creator" to talk about this nonsense and even acknowledge it?

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

The real villain is Sully, the man who taught him to kill. Drake is only a tool of Sully's vengeance.

Exactly. The story of Uncharted 4 is Drake breaking free of Sully and becoming his own man and learning that killing is bad.

 

[Dead Man Typing]

I don't really read gaming sites much anymore, so it probably seems like Drake gets it the worst because people actually talk about Uncharted here whereas not many still give a shit about BioShock Infinite or Max Payne 3.

Drake gets the worst of it because he actually has a likable personality and the general tone of his games is lighter than other titles. The contrast is bigger so more people notice it.

 

[IvorB]

That's Naughty Dogs problem. They wanted to have pseudo-realistic graphics and even want to get more "realistic" on current gen. It was also their decision to make him a "nice guy" in cutscenes and a psychopath in gameplay (including making fun of mass slaughtering foreigners).

Replace those enemies with aliens and make Drake some robot or something like that and I wouldn't complain about it.

I would also be okay with it in case Drake was actually a psychopath in cutscenes as well. Then at least it would fit together and make sense.

Do you genuinely believe everybody who comes across as a charming, nice guy really is one? I'm struggling to make sense of your viewpoint. You want Drake to be some kind of Hannibal Lecter-type in the cut scenes so that you can make sense of the fact that he kills a lot of people in the game. That way everything is nicely laid out for you in black and white and know where you stand. Is that it? This is such a old school Hollywood way of thinking that I just don't know where to begin. We've moved on from this.

 

[……forgetit]

Exactly. The story of Uncharted 4 is Drake breaking free of Sully and becoming his own man and learning that killing is bad.

But killing isn't always bad....

 

[Darknight]

What other shooters have goofy protagonists who aren't antiheroes who kill numerous enemies while cracking jokes?

I'm playing devils advocate as it doesn't actually bother me. Of course from a gameplay perspective they could do better.

So you never played the game? Ok.

And how do you improve gameplay? The gameplay in U2/U3 is already great. Its an action shooter. If you mean to say they need to add other forms of gameplay then racing games should add mini games where your car is in a side scrolling mini game to get mileage points as pressing the gas/break buttons get tiring after a while no?

 

[Grayman]

it's great that naughty dog has gotten good enough at their cinematic styled games goals that they have this problem with Drake being a happy go lucky mass murderer. The games have been fun but the down to earth wise cracking kill 800 people a game does stand out differently than in any other video game.