Someone made some suggestions on what you can do about Gamergate: http://pattheflip.tumblr.com/post/99764532473/dont-be-silent-things-you-can-do-about-gamergate
#GAMERGATE: The Threadening [Read the OP] -- #StopGamerGate2014
- Thread starter besada
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It is so simple it is mind boggling.
If you care about ethics in journalism, start a new hashtag.
The Gamergate hashtag was founded to harass women and continues to do so.
How could ANYONE who is actually concerned about ethics possibly associate themselves with such a blatantly toxic hashtag?
Standing by it while it churns with vitriol and bigotry while just shrugging it off makes you look complicit.
Start a new hashtag.
If you care about ethics in journalism, start a new hashtag.
The Gamergate hashtag was founded to harass women and continues to do so.
How could ANYONE who is actually concerned about ethics possibly associate themselves with such a blatantly toxic hashtag?
Standing by it while it churns with vitriol and bigotry while just shrugging it off makes you look complicit.
Start a new hashtag.
Anyone who tag-quotes this guy is a douchebag
Riposte
Member
There definitely is a pride element to it, a fear of looking like you've been beaten and retreated. From what I've seen, proposed new hashtags tend to get viewed as an attempt to weaken the movement and mocked for it when it fails. In many ways self-preservation has become a priority over all other goals, going as far as making yourself blind to the worst elements a tactic (a common mentality in general). I would say this self-preservation, no doubt only bolstered by harsh criticisms of "gamer" culture or the "status quo" as a whole, is a more valid explanation than trying to envision them (the guys who refuse to drop the hashtag despite seeming like relatively reasonable enough people) as comically simplistic misogynistic individuals. Although I can see why people want to frame it like so, I don't believe Wu was attacked merely because she was a woman nor because she opened a game studio, she was attacked primarily because she was an "enemy", a staunch opponent. "GamerGate" has the issue of being unable (not having the means, although there's definitely the temptation to be as inclusive as possible so as to grow) to moderate who it is, which includes those limited to and willing to use the most damaging tactics available to those with less power/fame/visibility (which makes the comparisons to terrorism quite apt in that respect). The safest (and perhaps the most natural) reaction to this for those who clearly don't see themselves as nor act as "terrorists" is to deny or at least reduce responsibility (although some go as far as to pin responsibility on the victim, that is an extremely aggressive attempt to remove the threat to their image, which naturally backfires). The idea you can't judge group by its worse is fairly logical and an extremely common and accepted idea, so it's no surprise that people pridefully refuse to accept that association. So, in the end, there's gridlock. GamerGate lives on.
EDIT: In some respect I can relate to that reaction. I want nothing to do with GamerGate as a whole, but there are definitely some arguments where I'm more aligned with many of those involved than their enemies (i.e., we have a common enemy) and I think it is shared enemies that has motivated and empowered all this mess from the start. When Leigh Alexander talks about creating and curating culture, what does that really mean in the end? Judging from the tangential points in these arguments, how values extend farther than just "inclusion", it may be something I don't want; maybe when you don't curate and create culture, you get Leigh Alexander creating her culture. So I can somewhat see the individuals I'm talking about on a spectrum I could also be a part of where they have relatively similar relationship with the "terrorists" as I do with them, at least in their minds. One difference, though, is that for the most part, they want their cake and eat it too. Sometimes they even engage in hypocrisy, such as campaigning sponsors. I think that's an ugly, resentful tactic no matter who does it, something I would think they would agree with. Anyway, so when they get frustrated and act rashly upon seeing threats done in their name (which is perhaps more than offensive to them, appears opportunistic in discrediting them, hence the conspiracy theories), to whatever extent, perhaps that's just another form of the frustration I feel when I see someone try to polarize and moralize discussions of criticism and art (it's pretty much the same people after all).
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
This is kind of bizarre, but the thought of the next GTA game commenting on all of this kind of makes me cringe.
Quote
Member
If you are either pro or nuetral on GG, you're a coward. I'm sorry I had to be the one to tell you about your new-found cowardice.
Every time you type "that doesn't mean all of us are bad!" are wasted words and instead you could have been condemning the action. You're showing your true colors and wasting everyone's time and your integrity.
Do something, or follow your own advice and shut up. Anything else is you being the problem.
Every time you type "that doesn't mean all of us are bad!" are wasted words and instead you could have been condemning the action. You're showing your true colors and wasting everyone's time and your integrity.
Do something, or follow your own advice and shut up. Anything else is you being the problem.
tonysidaway
Member
Specifically, she means condemning and excluding hate mobs in the most forthright manner. It's pretty straightforward. For example it's the reason why NeoGAF, though it may have its problems, is a relatively civilised community. Having an inclusive environment should not be regarded as a distant aspiration, but treated as the minimum tolerable standard.
thesolidshark
Member
I read this wrong at first, but reading the bolded again, thanks for the Quote-appointed title.
I don't know if you ever got a chance to see this, but I feel like this says a lot about what happens when social commentary becomes used as a way to escape criticism. Which, make no mistake, is exactly what's happening when you hear GamerGaters decry "not all of x does that!", or the like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzqQgAJd6Xo
This might be my metaphorical take on whatever the hell is going on right now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWbfgGDl6XE
I managed to stay away from GG stuff for about a week, but yesterday I decided to take a look at what's been going on. Kinda hoped nothing noteworthy occurred and that things were starting to calm down a bit...
Well obviously that didn't happen! I'm even more disgusted by all of this than I already was before, which I didn't think was possible.
Ever since I had a brief chat with Anita online (she's awesome, by the way) and became one of her Twitch moderators, the shit she gets has bothered me so much more than it already did. I genuinely cannot understand the mindset of these people, where they're so perfectly happy to spew this bile towards Anita, Zoe, Brianna and a million others. Honestly it's not really something I want to understand.
Well obviously that didn't happen! I'm even more disgusted by all of this than I already was before, which I didn't think was possible.
Ever since I had a brief chat with Anita online (she's awesome, by the way) and became one of her Twitch moderators, the shit she gets has bothered me so much more than it already did. I genuinely cannot understand the mindset of these people, where they're so perfectly happy to spew this bile towards Anita, Zoe, Brianna and a million others. Honestly it's not really something I want to understand.
Hey I just want to post here one last time to say I think it's a bummer that this has usurped the journalistic ethics thread on GAF, and I'd be all for someone making a new general thread about issues in game journalism that has nothing to do with GamerGate. While it's clear that this movement is and always has been tangled in vitriol and hatred, I'm still very interested in reading and talking about media ethics here, so I'd love to have a place to do that (so long as GG is kept well away).
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Member
Yes plz, I'd double check with the moderators though. Didn't the Doritos one get locked recently?
You might talk to besada about it, as I would love to see an OP from you regarding journalism ethics.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I think that speaks to how transparent the concerns about ethics in games journalism actually are. A lot of the opinions expressed both in the wild and on Gaf only extend as far as people's entertainment budgets and the enjoyment, perceived or real, that they receive from a game.
ShockingAlberto
Member
It'd be appropriate, since gamergate has nothing to do with journalistic ethics.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I invoked the gamergate tag last night to see who would bite (lots of people did). I made an attempt to understand their concerns, but after a bit of back and forth, most just sort of fell off and stopped responding.
The big complaint seemed to be that video game journalism wasn't doing its job because Youtubers were breaking stories and the mainstream media was reporting on them there (specifically the Microsoft/Machinima thing and the Shadow of Mordor thing). When I pointed out that it makes sense that Youtubers exposed this, as they were stories specifically having to do with Youtubers, I didn't get a response. I also mentioned that local news generally breaks stories and then AP or Reuters or CNN picks it up to give it exposure. This argument also did not get many responses.
I feel like the subtext to all of this is they want to scream "They didn't report on Zoe Quinn and that rubs me the wrong way." But they know that saying that removes all moral ground from whatever their argument is, even if they fully believe that not reporting on Quinn was them willfully turning a blind eye to a news story.
The claim that Gamergate is about ethics in games kind of holds no merit when you remove it from this one specific thing they are mad about and are trying to dance around saying. I don't know how you can have a cogent argument when even you realize your stance kind of makes you look like a monster.
The big complaint seemed to be that video game journalism wasn't doing its job because Youtubers were breaking stories and the mainstream media was reporting on them there (specifically the Microsoft/Machinima thing and the Shadow of Mordor thing). When I pointed out that it makes sense that Youtubers exposed this, as they were stories specifically having to do with Youtubers, I didn't get a response. I also mentioned that local news generally breaks stories and then AP or Reuters or CNN picks it up to give it exposure. This argument also did not get many responses.
I feel like the subtext to all of this is they want to scream "They didn't report on Zoe Quinn and that rubs me the wrong way." But they know that saying that removes all moral ground from whatever their argument is, even if they fully believe that not reporting on Quinn was them willfully turning a blind eye to a news story.
The claim that Gamergate is about ethics in games kind of holds no merit when you remove it from this one specific thing they are mad about and are trying to dance around saying. I don't know how you can have a cogent argument when even you realize your stance kind of makes you look like a monster.
TheBryanJZX90
Member
There have been a handful of other threads relating to gaming journalism that have all been pretty brutal. Not going to be able to keep gamergate talk out, I think.
Just list it in the OP as a reverse Fight Club thing. Only two important rules!
You can't really expect too much honestly. I mean, this is the movement that thought it'd found the smoking gun to an all encompassing resevoir of journalistic corruption in video games when it discovered press clubs exist.
Brianna wants to have an in person conversation with Adam Baldwin. I hope something good comes out of it, but he is a true believer. Far right wing person who isn't going to change his mind in any way. Not the tone, nothing. He's subscribes to variety of dangerous ideologies.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
That sounds fairly dangerous for her.
The way this stuff has been going I half expect he'll try to stab her or something.
Quote
Member
He is trying to get her to apologize for implicating GG in her doxxing and demanding she stay silent about being threatened because it's the safer thing to do or some shit. What a great guy to have advocate your stupid fucking misogynistic movement.
Shit, I meant journalistic ethics movement!
Shit, I meant journalistic ethics movement!
I had to do that for Daniel Vavra. Dude won't stop going on about it. And then, wearing that shirt in the latest Kingdom Come video...
Man, I thought Kingdom Come: Deliverance looked really cool. It's a shame this guy decided to be a shitlord and promote personal feelings using the game and the company he works for. Now I wont be buying it, ever.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I had been giving him the benefit of the doubt and assumed he just jumped on the train to promote his game, but he does appear to be a true believer.
The former would be significantly worse.
If he believes in GamerGate and likes what it stands for, whatever the fuck that actually is- cool. Do that on your personal Twitter account. To be antagonistic when promoting a product that you aren't solely responsible of is absolutely gross. I don't want to support him now and since nobody has said "Hey, don't do that on company time in company media" I take this as Warhorse Studios collectively feels the same as he does. I cannot support the product they're working on, as cool as it seems to be. He has successfully poisoned the Kingdom Come well.
Anyways good article by Kotaku.Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
I feel pretty much the same. I was interested in this game, but now, not so much. Maybe I'll play it when it's free on PS+ or something... xD
chrominance
Member
Which sucks because every time I think it's finally calmed down, something else happens. First the Intel thing, now this. I'm beginning to wonder if it will ever go away.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I feel like the only thing that would help is harsh legal repercussions for the harassment. These people feel like being ignored is tacit acceptance of their actions and unfortunately it might as well be.
As long as the GG folks feel like a group that is being marginalized - they won't go away any more than the anti-GG crowd will go away.
That said, this is going to have to lead to some anti-harassment policies with teeth before something really tragic happens (as in action not just threats). It's already led to echo chambers (both sides will have this).
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
The real horror story here is that by GamerGate "dying down", we really mean "sexism becomes less obvious".
charlequin
Banned
I'm interested in this too, but we can't really have it until it wouldn't mean having two threads to patrol for garbage instead of just one.
Adam Baldwin super sucks but I am still pretty confident that he isn't going to assault an internet person he's having a public meeting with.
No, I'm starting to think that the video game hobby is just permanently going to be much more awful than it used to be.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Adam Baldwin is very smart in his career moves.
I mean, there's a reason why his on-screen personas have left no traces of his real thoughts.
I imagine the meeting going quite well.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Baldwin is not the only one to be concerned about.
@alstein
I personally don't want anti-GG to ever go away; that would mean acceptance of harassment and driving talented women AND men out of and away from the industry. It's extremely intellectual dishonest to present them in the same level as GG. As for "echo chamber" talk-I only see that used by people who have take issue with people uniting against discrimination and other forms of ignorance so I'd either elaborate or provide some examples
Alex_Mexico
Member
I was curious to see what was Adam Baldwin up to on Twitter since he started inexplicably to rally against Zoey Quinn and I was amazed he's still religiously tweeting at all times of the day about Gamergate. Not two hours ago he called some dude a White Knight for defending a woman. My gosh he's a tool! I thought he'd know better than using that stupid term. How can he not get tired of his little crusade?
I'd say I'm done with this topic but I know ill check up on the sad state of affairs in a few weeks so I'll say this was enough pointless Gamergate nonesense for a month.
PS:the whole Wu fiasco makes me ill and ashamed of calling myself a gamer and being part of a group with people like those harassers.
I'd say I'm done with this topic but I know ill check up on the sad state of affairs in a few weeks so I'll say this was enough pointless Gamergate nonesense for a month.
PS:the whole Wu fiasco makes me ill and ashamed of calling myself a gamer and being part of a group with people like those harassers.
jim-jam bongs
Member
I'm not sure how he felt before it happened, but I'd imagine a lot of his disdain for SJWs comes from being put on the spot recently about why there are no non-white characters in Kingdom Come.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Oh come on, Bongs, you know that's not enough to make someone go ga-ga.
jim-jam bongs
Member
True, but I could see it making him more inclined towards actively fighting against the SJW posse rather than staying out of the fight completely.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Judging by the thread we had here about that, I could see that happening.
michaelius
Banned
True it's sad that you can't even make a game which takes place in middle ages in eastern europe without having to defend yourself from not implementing checklist of politically correct choices.
The Broken Ska Record
Member
I keep seeing that GGers say that there's been harrasement on both sides, but I've only really seen the death/rape threats coming from the GG dudes.
That Stone Dude
Neo Member
It's sad that all those noisy minorities couldn't just shut up and stay in their box, all this could have been avoided.
(This is sarcasm. I know it can be hard to tell at times)
yeah
how fucking dare these people
it's just not REALISTIC to have women on an equal footing without being troped to shit. that is historical fact!!
the fire breathing dragons and lightning bolt mages though?
totes realistic
Milo got a disturbing syringe in his mailbox and boogie and Jontron were both harassed by possibly anti-gg supporters(I think). There may have been other cases of harassment done by the anti-gg side, but the majority of the harassment and the doxxing is coming from the pro-gg side.
Yeah, defend yourself from that totally bland tumblr post that was largely just a list of black people alive in the time and region. The only reason that story blew up was because angry redditors went berserk and acted like the giant shitheads they can be when it comes to topics like that.
It is so fucking funny that these people are so insecure that they flip out and become (or probably more likely reveal they already were) arseholes when even the question of why you are or aren't doing something is asked of you.
His big thing is "Muh artistic freedoms" which nobody is challenging. It's a big imagined enemy because nobody is attacking you. You're just so unaware of your own privilege that someone even commenting on your bullshit seems like an attack!
And when it comes to the realism argument, at the very least when it comes to women, it's pretty well documented bullshit.
Underestimating the white-washing, so to speak, of history, is a dangerous and stupid path to go down.
His big thing is "Muh artistic freedoms" which nobody is challenging. It's a big imagined enemy because nobody is attacking you. You're just so unaware of your own privilege that someone even commenting on your bullshit seems like an attack!
And when it comes to the realism argument, at the very least when it comes to women, it's pretty well documented bullshit.
Underestimating the white-washing, so to speak, of history, is a dangerous and stupid path to go down.
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