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[Opinionatedfish]

GameEthics was only one letter longer than Gamergate, so I doubt length has much to do with it not particularly taking off.

Honestly a big thing about #GG that I've noticed, is that for a lot of participants they didn't seem to have a twitter account before GG happened. A large chunk of #GGers seem to be on twitter exclusively to support GG. (not all, but quite a chunk)

Remember when there were news stories about 60% to 70% of the US President's Twitter followers being fake?

You can buy followers on Facebook/Twitter and so forth. There might be something like that going on here? Hmm...

 

[Aeana]

It's not corruption but I do think it exemplifies the misrepresentation of feminism that I see in so many people trying to act feminist. Everything about the character subverts entirely the very tropes that Anita Sarkeesian has been talking about over the past year.

While I haven't played Bayonetta 2, the original plot was 'single mom and her female friend save the world while all the men stand around helpless'. Focusing on the fact that she's a caricature of the prototypical sex icon just shows how much the author misses the point of feminism.

It's like complaining that Starship Troopers was 'too fascist'.

Being uncomfortable with the representation of a female character and saying so doesn't make it a representation of feminism in the first place. The quick linking of someone expressing discomfort with some other larger movement just so it can be attacked is one of the major problems here.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Remember when there were news stories about 60% to 70% of the US President's Twitter followers being fake?

You can buy followers on Facebook/Twitter and so forth. There might be something like that going on here? Hmm...

I don't think the GG participants are fake, it's more a diaspora related to them getting their asses kicked off of 4chan I think.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Video Gamers Are Having A Bizarre Debate Over Whether Sending Death Threats To Women Is A Serious Issue Or Not

http://www.businessinsider.com/gamergate-death-threats-2014-10

Read the text. Than read the comments. Than cry. Sorry, on my phone right now.

 

[MHWilliams]

Holy crap, y'all! What happened when I went to sleep after posting my Bayonetta 2 review?

He has consistently said that he was like the only person at the start of it all telling people not to harass her. People have said there are logs, I haven't seen them.

This is mostly true. The logs are here.

(italics in orig. bolding added for emphasis)

Not even sure if I should go with this here but is this something other journos have experienced with Bethesda? I've heard stories on podcasts of them being incredibly thin skinned with criticism of the Elder Scrolls series faults (technical or gameplay) but if they're starting down this old 'print scores we agree with or no code for you' publisher road they need calling out. If GG were about ethics it's stuff like this and YT 'brand deals' that would be the centre of their campaign.

We also didn't get a review copy. We were told because copies were sparse. I can't comment on Bethesda's situation beyond that because I don't know their internal works. It happens.

I've made it clear to Greg in no uncertain times that I felt left out to dry by that article, and that it put the site's reputation through the wringer. For what it's worth, I generally have a lot of respect when it comes to editorial over there, and I'm usually consulted on anything with controversial potential to offer my input on how to improve a piece, or even if a piece is a good idea to run. In this case, I wasn't asked for input, and that's been acknowledged as a mistake.

I think Greg, at the very least, wants to make it right.

I won't lie, I've been considering my future a lot lately. Not just when it comes to my current job, but my entire choice of industry. The past six weeks have brought that up for a lot of people. Fact is, I don't know what road I'm taking with regards to leaving or cutting back content anywhere. All I know for sure is that right now, the love for what I do is lower than it's ever been, and I am doing what I can to keep myself into it.

Yeah, Greg Tito is a good man in a tough position.

No offense jason but if you wanted to have that conversation, you could. You don't need gamergate to do it.

If your organization decided tomorrow to pen a code of ethics, discuss it with your viewers, and then adhere to it you're certainly welcome to do that.

I think it would go a long way to regaining some consumer trust and gaining new readers as well. Just a thought.

I would also take it a step in the right direction I helped encourage and I'd sleep a hell of a lot better, to boot.

A number of sites already have concrete ethics codes. Here's ours.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Protip, Shakespeare probably didn't actually know any internet SJWs...

AS far as we know anyway....

 

[Neoriceisgood]

AS far as we know anyway....

I bet I could connect Shakespear to DIGra following the rules of six degrees of seperation.

 

[Dartastic]

Not sure if this has been posted, but even Huffington Post is reporting on this. It's a clusterfuck. I don't see how GG people can't see the fact that the stupid hashtag has evolved to a point where it's essentially an attack on women. Disgusting.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...0966.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000046&ir=Women

 

[More_Badass]

Video Gamers Are Having A Bizarre Debate Over Whether Sending Death Threats To Women Is A Serious Issue Or Not

http://www.businessinsider.com/gamergate-death-threats-2014-10

Read the text. Than read the comments. Than cry. Sorry, on my phone right now.

Damn right

GamerGate also underlines one very sad aspect of the gaming scene. The stereotype of a "gamer" is a lonely young man who has replaced his social life with a set of animated avatars on a screen, and now has difficulty relating to women: The angry male virgin nerd, in other words.

Let's assume this stereotype is grossly unfair. Gaming is bigger than that.

But if you wanted to convince the outside world that gaming is dominated by angry male virgin nerds, then these tone-deaf responses to critics of gaming, and the death threats that have come along with them, are a pretty good way of doing it.

Thanks GamerGate...

 

[chrominance]

Giantbomb got smeared for some reason though.

I'm watching the segment now, and Giant Bomb got called out for remaining silent on the Gamergate issue. Which, by and large, they have. Patrick and Alex have talked about it on their morning show, yes (and kudos to them for covering it in multiple episodes), but the live versions are only open to premium members and as a largely topical, current-events kind of show, I'm guessing there aren't that many people who go through the archives to find this stuff. Jeff's letter to the community excoriating the more extreme members for attacking people who criticized Giant Bomb's most recent hiring decisions was also welcome, but that was months ago and isn't directly connected to Gamergate.

I know at least some of the people behind Giant Bomb grapple with the subject--Patrick and Alex are clearly torn up about it whenever they discuss it on their morning show. But you look at the site most days and it basically sounds like business as usual. I mean, MSNBC just aired a nationwide news segment about it, and Giant Bomb won't even put it on their front page? You can disagree that Giant Bomb has a responsibility to speak up--to be honest I go back and forth on it myself, though I still think a stronger statement would be welcome--but I don't think Brianna Wu's statement was a smear, or that it was unwarranted.

Also, speak of the devil: Giant Bomb just posted a story about Wu's harassment. Patrick posted to his Twitter that even though they'd been talking about Gamergate on Scoops and the Wolf, the issue was something they felt "deserved space on our site." Exactly.

 

[Nekofrog]

I assume boogie has done a lot in the past to supposedly earn the good will of most of you, but the only thing I've seen in this thread is him constantly putting himself on the cross, bemoaning his stake in life, and unwilling to bend on the idea supporting a shit movement. and then he throws in this little jab "well if you just did the things I WANT I sure wouldn't be in such a bad place" like it's Kotaku's place to placate his neuroses and issues

I don't get the eagerness to walk on egg shells for this guy I guess

because in general he's a really good fucking guy who has had too much shit thrown at him. he's also incredibly entertaining, thoughtful and a kind person who cares about people. i think he cares a bit too much, which leads to excessive and unneeded suffering on his part.

he's never asked or taken from any of us, he's only given. even though i 100% disagree with his use of the #gg tag, I feel that it's his right to use it in the way he wants to. i wish he wouldn't, and the fact that he's here willing to talk about it and debate why he does means more than the blind tag users who just want to use it and offer up no debate.

boogie, next time you're in san francisco hit me up. my wife and i would love to meet you.

 

[antigoon]

It's not corruption but I do think it exemplifies the misrepresentation of feminism that I see in so many people trying to act feminist. Everything about the character subverts entirely the very tropes that Anita Sarkeesian has been talking about over the past year.

While I haven't played Bayonetta 2, the original plot was 'single mom and her female friend save the world while all the men stand around helpless'. Focusing on the fact that she's a caricature of the prototypical sex icon just shows how much the author misses the point of feminism.

It's like complaining that Starship Troopers was 'too fascist'.

The point is that there is room for an informed discussion here - and to suggest that one particular review "misses the point of feminism" seems like an extreme stretch. I'm sure Arthur Gies knows what satire is. And although Bayonetta the character seems like a great sex-positive portrayal of a woman, from what I have seen, the game's "cinematographer/director" nonetheless chooses to include many gratuitous ass/crotch shots for no apparent reason other than male titilation.

But like I said, there's room for debate.

Something that really enriched my experience of watching the new movie Gone Girl was reading the breadth of articles that were subsequently published that took different perspectives on the film's portrayal of women. Those pieces gave me a lot to think about. I would love if meaningful dialogue surrounding games could develop. Unfortunately, "gamers" seem to merely want Consumer Reports style product reviews instead of the actual criticism these games deserve as part of a modern art form.

 

[Felix Lighter]

Gamergate seems to be getting more mainstream press lately. If the goal was to set back the mainstream acceptance of the hobby back 15 years, this campaign is doing a pretty good job. As a person known by friends, coworkers and family to play games it is embarrassing but I'm glad it's getting coverage by journalist outside of the industry because trying to cover this thing from within has to be kind of terrifying for any gaming press outlet.

 

[Pastry]

because in general he's a really good fucking guy who has had too much shit thrown at him. he's also incredibly entertaining, thoughtful and a kind person who cares about people. i think he cares a bit too much, which leads to excessive and unneeded suffering on his part.

he's never asked or taken from any of us, he's only given. even though i 100% disagree with his use of the #gg tag, I feel that it's his right to use it in the way he wants to. i wish he wouldn't, and the fact that he's here willing to talk about it and debate why he does means more than the blind tag users who just want to use it and offer up no debate.

boogie, next time you're in san francisco hit me up.

The thing is that he can't use #GG in the way he wants to. At this point #GG is equated with misogyny and harassment everywhere that is reasonable, including mass media outlets. It's pointless to do anything with #GG at this point, the well has been poisoned.

 

[antigoon]

Gamergate seems to be getting more mainstream press lately. If the goal was to set back the mainstream acceptance of the hobby back 15 years, this campaign is doing a pretty good job. As a person known by friends, coworkers and family to play games it is embarrassing but I'm glad it's getting coverage by journalist outside of the industry because trying to cover this thing from within has to be kind of terrifying for any gaming press outlet.

Yeah, like, way to go #GamerGate. Your incorrect reading of Leigh Alexander's "Gamers Are Over" is nonetheless accurate!

 

[ShockingAlberto]

It's probably for the best that they haven't figured out that they can just abandon the #gamergate hashtag and start fresh (or are too prideful to do it or see it as a defeat). Once they figure that out, they'll just bury that body and then use its parts to build a new Frankenstein's Monster again and again.

 

[Cybit]

I'm watching the segment now, and Giant Bomb got called out for remaining silent on the Gamergate issue. Which, by and large, they have. Patrick and Alex have talked about it on their morning show, yes (and kudos to them for covering it in multiple episodes), but the live versions are only open to premium members and as a largely topical, current-events kind of show, I'm guessing there aren't that many people who go through the archives to find this stuff. Jeff's letter to the community excoriating the more extreme members for attacking people who criticized Giant Bomb's most recent hiring decisions was also welcome, but that was months ago and isn't directly connected to Gamergate.

I know at least some of the people behind Giant Bomb grapple with the subject--Patrick and Alex are clearly torn up about it whenever they discuss it on their morning show. But you look at the site most days and it basically sounds like business as usual. I mean, MSNBC just aired a nationwide news segment about it, and Giant Bomb won't even put it on their front page? You can disagree that Giant Bomb has a responsibility to speak up--to be honest I go back and forth on it myself, though I still think a stronger statement would be welcome--but I don't think Brianna Wu's statement was a smear, or that it was unwarranted.

Also, speak of the devil: Giant Bomb just posted a story about Wu's harassment. Patrick posted to his Twitter that even though they'd been talking about Gamergate on Scoops and the Wolf, the issue was something they felt "deserved space on our site." Exactly.

I just assumed that GB hadn't posted much about the Wu thing cuz it happened on a weekend night. If they hadn't posted anything by the end of Monday, then maybe, but if something happens on Fri night / Sat night; it usually doesn't pick up much media attention due to the timing (this is why all bad news press releases are released Friday night).

 

[-Kees-]

Yeah, like, way to go #GamerGate. Your incorrect reading of Leigh Alexander's "Gamers Are Over" is nonetheless accurate!

GG has done more to damage gaming than Jack Thompson ever did.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

I like how even if you take the view that GG is "really" about Leigh Alexander's article making gamers look bad, the mainstream media portrayal of GG will probably have a larger negative effect on gaming's "image" than her article could ever have had.

 

[MHWilliams]

Not sure if this has been posted, but even Huffington Post is reporting on this. It's a clusterfuck. I don't see how GG people can't see the fact that the stupid hashtag has evolved to a point where it's essentially an attack on women. Disgusting.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...0966.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000046&ir=Women

The MSNBC, BI, and Huff Post articles seem to be galvanizing them if Twitter is any indication. Backfire Effect, or at least they believe that now #GamerGate has been named in the mainstream, they can reach out to those channels with their message.

 

[Kris Pistofferson]

A lot of feminist voices I follow on twitter et all actually like Bayonetta. People usually don't care if they have something positive to say about sexualization or nudity though, as it doesn't fit into the "EXTREME SJW" narrative.

Exactly how I feel about it. I've identified as a feminist for almost 20 years and my first thought of Bayonetta was that it was too vulgar. I only played it because of the good reviews but, having played it, I know that my initial impression was wrong.

If the reviewer played it but still got the wrong impression then he's probably not that good at actually understanding feminist philosophy. Which is the problem with much of the 'SJW' movement because so many of them aren't actually feminist.

The absolute core ideal of feminism doesn't at all concern sexual objectification but the 'objectification' part of it. Most people objectify disabled people due to the 'awww' factor while still completely disregarding their very real needs for human contact and including sex. People even objectify the victims of child sexual abuse as soon as they grow up and stop being cute.

It's recognizing those facts that makes a feminist.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

, they can reach out to those channels with their message.

GG "Reaching out", there's absolutely no way that could backfire.

Exactly how I feel about it. I've identified as a feminist for almost 20 years and my first thought of Bayonetta was that it was too vulgar. I only played it because of the good reviews but, having played it, I know that my initial impression was wrong.
If the reviewer played it but still got the wrong impression then he's probably not that good at actually understanding feminist philosophy. Which is the problem with much of the 'SJW' movement because so many of them aren't actually feminist.
The absolute core ideal of feminism doesn't at all concern sexual objectification but the 'objectification' part of it. Most people objectify disabled people due to the 'awww' factor while still completely disregarding their very real needs for human contact and including sex.

"SJW" is an absolutely useless insult mostly used by non-feminists though.

I'd be jumping off the roof in extacy if people would correct people on misunderstanding the idea behind certain feminist issues (e.g. sexualization v.s. sexual objectification)
rather than just going "OMG DA FEMNHINISTS B EVIL NAZZZHIIIIS".

But until people can correctly distinguish between neo nazis, TERFS and intersectional feminists I won't hold much hope for that. (and yes I've seen people confuse nazi accounts on tumblr for "SJW"s.)

 

[chrominance]

I just assumed that GB hadn't posted much about the Wu thing cuz it happened on a weekend night. If they hadn't posted anything by the end of Monday, then maybe, but if something happens on Fri night / Sat night; it usually doesn't pick up much media attention due to the timing (this is why all bad news press releases are released Friday night).

Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily expect Giant Bomb to post something over the weekend, since they're not as big as a Polygon or an IGN. But Gamergate in general has been going on for weeks now. On the MSNBC segment, Wu was talking about the gaming media largely remaining silent and how that encourages the abuse; I don't think she meant just the harassment against her specifically.

All that said, I'm a little more hopeful today that gaming sites might be coming around verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry slowly, now that we have more mainstream press discovering this.

 

[Galactic Fork]

The point is that there is room for an informed discussion here - and to suggest that one particular review "misses the point of feminism" seems like an extreme stretch. I'm sure Arthur Gies knows what satire is. And although Bayonetta the character seems like a great sex-positive portrayal of a woman, from what I have seen, the game's "cinematographer/director" nonetheless chooses to include many gratuitous ass/crotch shots for no apparent reason other than male titilation.

There's also a sort of tightrope you have to walk when creating a "sex positive character." Sex positivity is awesome, but characters literally have no agency of their own. They are provided contextual agency by the writer. So the character is only sex positive because the writer says so. They make the character sex positive. Is the character sex positive simply because the writer wants an excuse for sexualization? Is it important to the character internally regardless of the viewer? This is where the camera provides the answer. The camera is purely about the viewer. Regardless of whether Bayonetta is sex positive or not, zoomed in crotch and ass shots have nothing to with the character's views on her own sexuality. It's about giving the player closeup shots of her crotch and and ass. So I feel it undermines some of the subversiveness the creators were going for.

 

[besada]

Thanks GAF. Now because of you I know who Vox Day is. 10 minutes ago I had never heard about the scumbag but now I know he's an ultra conservative tiny little person who has publicly acknowledged he's against every woman's right it's apparently destroying western civilized society and even is against women voting in elections! I mean what the fuck! How can anyone side to any cause when behind it you have an idiot like him? Why is he even someone people know about in the first place?

Because Vox Day was involved in a very public, very stupid fight about the Hugo awards with John Scalzi and a big part of the SFWA. He and Larry Correia attempted to stuff the Hugo ballot box by getting their fans to sign up as SFWA members, solely to pump up their books. It was a disastrous failure, by the way, and Vox Day lost in his category to "No Award." To be clear, that means his book was judged to be less of a Hugo contender than just not giving it away that year.

 

[Quote]

Is it stupid of me to think that this is picking up enough steam lately to move in the right direction? Lots of great articles and coverage these last two weeks.

 

[Orayn]

Something good has finally come of this whole debacle: A browser word filter that turns "SJW" into "skeleton."

THE NEW MCCARTHYISM

BETTER HELL THAN SKEL

 

[antigoon]

lmao

 

[mo60]

Is it stupid of me to think that this is picking up enough steam lately to move in the right direction? Lots of great articles and coverage these last two weeks.

I agree. I hope people start to move away from gamergate.They are trying to mess with the mainstream media now according to this. I hope it's safe to post this,
https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2j5hoa/operationbussiness_mass_email_tweet_list/

 

[Fantastapotamus]

I need this filter.

 

[mo60]

Something good has finally come of this whole debacle: A browser word filter that turns "SJW" into "skeleton."

THE NEW MCCARTHYISM

BETTER HELL THAN SKEL

That is really funny.

 

[antigoon]

I agree. I hope people start to move away from gamergate.They are trying to mess with the mainstream media now according to this. I hope it's safe to post this,
https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2j5hoa/operationbussiness_mass_email_tweet_list/

"Rules: No witch hunt/call to arms type stuff"

"OPERATION:BUSSINESS, Mass email + Tweet list."

 

[ClosingADoor]

I agree. I hope people start to move away from gamergate.They are trying to mess with the mainstream media now according to this. I hope it's safe to post this,
https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2j5hoa/operationbussiness_mass_email_tweet_list/

What exactly is supposed to be emailed to those media?

I'm sure they are interested in doing pieces about ethics in gaming journalism...

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Video Gamers Are Having A Bizarre Debate Over Whether Sending Death Threats To Women Is A Serious Issue Or Not

http://www.businessinsider.com/gamer...hreats-2014-10

Read the text. Than read the comments. Than cry. Sorry, on my phone right now.

I'm gonna go with... NOPE

 

[Moral Panic]

Exactly how I feel about it. I've identified as a feminist for almost 20 years and my first thought of Bayonetta was that it was too vulgar. I only played it because of the good reviews but, having played it, I know that my initial impression was wrong.

If the reviewer played it but still got the wrong impression then he's probably not that good at actually understanding feminist philosophy. Which is the problem with much of the 'SJW' movement because so many of them aren't actually feminist.

The absolute core ideal of feminism doesn't at all concern sexual objectification but the 'objectification' part of it. Most people objectify disabled people due to the 'awww' factor while still completely disregarding their very real needs for human contact and including sex. People even objectify the victims of child sexual abuse as soon as they grow up and stop being cute.

It's recognizing those facts that makes a feminist.

Anyone who doesn't think exactly as you do isn't a feminist. OK.

 

[Galactic Fork]

"Rules: No witch hunt/call to arms type stuff"

"OPERATION:BUSSINESS, Mass email + Tweet list."

Of course it needs an "operation" name.

 

[mo60]

What exactly is supposed to be emailed to those media?

I'm sure they are interested in doing pieces about ethics in gaming journalism...

Most of the mainstream news media they try to send emails to won't care about this anyway unlike previous mailing attempts. I do not think they will do the mailing campaign for this just yet.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Of course it needs an "operation" name.

That's how you know it's serious.

 

[tchocky]

If they are planning to e-mail MSNBC I hope they mention that one of their 'leaders' is MIlo from Breitbart because I am sure that will help convince MSNBC that they are not a hate group.

 

[More_Badass]

I agree. I hope people start to move away from gamergate.They are trying to mess with the mainstream media now according to this. I hope it's safe to post this,
https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2j5hoa/operationbussiness_mass_email_tweet_list/

This reminded me: Why is it called Kotaku in Action? Is the subreddit affiliated with Kotaku?

 

[Orayn]

This reminded me: Why is it called Kotaku in Action? Is the subreddit affiliated with Kotaku?

There's a subreddit called "TumblrInAction" that makes fun of gender and sexuality discussion on Tumblr. It started as slightly mean-spirited and got much, much worse over time.

KotakuInAction is trying to be the same thing for games journalism, e.g. making fun of minorities and "SJWs" at every opportunity. It's pretty gross.

 

[Kris Pistofferson]

"SJW" is an absolutely useless insult mostly used by non-feminists though.

I'd be jumping off the roof in extacy if people would correct people on misunderstanding the idea behind certain feminist issues (e.g. sexualization v.s. sexual objectification)
rather than just going "OMG DA FEMNHINISTS B EVIL NAZZZHIIIIS".

But until people can correctly distinguish between neo nazis, TERFS and intersectional feminists I won't hold much hope for that. (and yes I've seen people confuse nazi accounts on tumblr for "SJW"s.)

Yeah, I'm not a fan of those labels. I don't like the 'SJW' label any more than I like most other labels. Some consider 'SJW' an insult just like others consider 'Tea-Partier' an insult and, just a few years ago, 'liberal' and 'progressive' were insults in some circles. It's largely meaningless because most people are actually quite decent people regardless of their political affiliation.

The part where I think many people go wrong is when they think those labels identify the person instead of their actual personality traits. If you want to correctly judge a person then you should be looking at whether they're antisocial/narcissistic/histrionic and not whether they're left vs. right or GamerGate vs. anti-GamerGate. Focusing on the latter misses the point because it's the former that decides whether they're abusive or not.

The GamerGate side simply seems more antisocial while the other seems more histrionic. Male psychopaths tend to be diagnosed antisocial while female psychopaths tend to be diagnosed histrionic. Those aren't mutually exclusive but both combine roughly 1% of the population with another couple of percent exhibiting traits of the features. The rest are likely to be mostly decent people being manipulated one way or the other.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Because Vox Day was involved in a very public, very stupid fight about the Hugo awards with John Scalzi and a big part of the SFWA. He and Larry Correia attempted to stuff the Hugo ballot box by getting their fans to sign up as SFWA members, solely to pump up their books. It was a disastrous failure, by the way, and Vox Day lost in his category to "No Award." To be clear, that means his book was judged to be less of a Hugo contender than just not giving it away that year.

Wow you just name dropped me a bunch of names I've never heard about before. I need to do some googlin'... that Vox dude still sounds more of a douchebag than I thought.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I think I'd rather be endorsed by the KKK than Vox Day. He's really, really that bad.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of those labels. I don't like the 'SJW' label any more than I like most other labels. Some consider 'SJW' an insult just like others consider 'Tea-Partier' an insult and, just a few years ago, 'liberal' and 'progressive' were insults in some circles. It's largely meaningless because most people are actually quite decent people regardless of their political affiliation.

The part where I think many people go wrong is when they think those labels identify the person instead of their actual personality traits. If you want to correctly judge a person then you should be looking at whether they're antisocial/narcissistic/histrionic and not whether they're left vs. right or GamerGate vs. anti-GamerGate. Focusing on the latter misses the point because it's the former that decides whether they're abusive or not.

The GamerGate side simply seems more antisocial while the other seems more histrionic. Male psychopaths tend to be diagnosed antisocial while female psychopaths tend to be diagnosed histrionic. Those aren't mutually exclusive but both combine roughly 1% of the population with another couple of percent exhibiting traits of the features. The rest are likely to be mostly decent people being manipulated one way or the other.

A big difference between "SJW" and the other labels you mentioned is that "SJW" started out as an insult & got adopted by a few people out of spite.

It's essentially used to encompass a ton of different groups that care about various social issues.

liberal/progressive being "insults" is similar to people using "Secular" as an insult, there's nothing inherently bad about the words unless you're extremely conservative to begin with.

I'm not gonna go into your group-level diagnosis cause that seems to be extremely sketchy territory.

 

[Suzushiiro]

This reminded me: Why is it called Kotaku in Action? Is the subreddit affiliated with Kotaku?

The subreddit spun off of TumblrInAction, a subreddit devoted to making fun of crazy/extremist social justice activists on (and occasionally off) Tumblr. It's named after Kotaku because the site has traditionally been associated with "social justice-bait" articles and bad journalism in general in the minds of a lot of people, though I'd argue Polygon is the new gold(brown?) standard for that sort of thing.

 

[Zen]

I'm not really going to post here much anymore, simply to say that I find is depressing how eager people are to write off large groups of people, a multi headed hydra, as one thing, and 'oh well' to all the innocent people that get caught in the cross fire. I don't believe fighting a war is the correct response, and my approach would still result in moderates 'winning' over the extremists who are using things as cover.

I will still post this though.

Gamergate, the same movement that is just a harassment campaign filled with what some people here have said are 'just extremists', found the identity of the person who sent Anita the death threats, surprise he is apparently not a 'Gamergatter' but regardless on that point? They have notified her and given the information to the police.

https://twitter.com/bubblesort1/status/521650923672993792

I hope this makes some people think twice about their absolutist stances, and realized that people like myself, or Boogie, are trying to end the conflict and remove cover for harassers all the same as you are.

 

[MYeager]

Because Vox Day was involved in a very public, very stupid fight about the Hugo awards with John Scalzi and a big part of the SFWA. He and Larry Correia attempted to stuff the Hugo ballot box by getting their fans to sign up as SFWA members, solely to pump up their books. It was a disastrous failure, by the way, and Vox Day lost in his category to "No Award." To be clear, that means his book was judged to be less of a Hugo contender than just not giving it away that year.

Aw shit Larry Correia was involved in that? I didn't know. Damnit, the Monster Hunter International books are a guilty pleasure.

 

[Orayn]

I hope this makes some people think twice about their absolutist stances, and realized that people like myself, or Boogie, are trying to end the conflict and remove cover for harassers all the same as you are.

Heroic firefighter rescues people from a blaze he lit for shits and giggles earlier in the day. This individual is making great strides against stopping people from dying in fires.

#NotAllArsonists

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I'm not really going to post here much anymore, simply to say that I find is depressing how eager people are to write off large groups of people, a multi headed hydra, as one thing, and 'oh well' to all the innocent people that get caught in the cross fire. I don't believe fighting a war is the correct response, and my approach would still result in moderates 'winning' over the extremists who are using things as cover.

I will still post this thought.

Gamergate, the same movement that is just a harassment campaign filled with what some people here have said are 'just extremists', found the identity of the person who sent Anita the death threats, surprise he is apparently not a 'Gamergatter' but regardless on that point? They have notified her and given the information to the police.

https://twitter.com/bubblesort1/status/521650923672993792



I hope this makes some people think twice about their absolutist stances, and realized that people like myself, or Boogie, are trying to end the conflict and remove cover for harassers all the same as you are.

You're right, this totally cancels out everything else