It doesn't. The very mention of that hashtag brings up such rancid and toxic emotions from all this nonsense that it will be impossible to have any kind of conversation with all the associations tied with the movement. Wait out the storm, start something new under a new name if you must, but the #gamergate name is poisonous at this point. You don't just "recover" from death threats.
#GAMERGATE: The Threadening [Read the OP] -- #StopGamerGate2014
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It doesn't. The very mention of that hashtag brings up such rancid and toxic emotions from all this nonsense that it will be impossible to have any kind of conversation with all the associations tied with the movement. Wait out the storm, start something new under a new name if you must, but the #gamergate name is poisonous at this point. You don't just "recover" from death threats.
Because 99% of the tweets have nothing to do with harassment or are saying don't harass anyone? I could threaten anyone on twitter and sully any hash tag I wanted it wouldn't make anyone else complicit in said actions.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
The same way people who genuinely follow a religion are separated from the extremists who taint that religion.
I mean, it's true some people jumped onto #gg because they thought it was started as a movement against corruption-Maybe some of them realized the devious workings behind it, maybe some didn't. Hell, a couple pages ago you have wikileaks acknowledging #gamertgate-How many people will be attracted to it just because of that? They'll come in, not knowing what it's about and be lumped in with the extremists. Then they'll see people condemning gamergate, and it'll go two ways-One, this will be affirmation of corruption. Or the other, they'll wonder why they're being condemned and look into it and maybe discover the original, insidious intention. It's interesting to see this continue to evolve.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Pretty much this. This is way over the line, and just because the medium by which these messages are sent is via the internet, doesn't mean we can simply dismiss it as "trolling".
Quote
Member
Whoa, is this true? That is awesome!
There's a big difference between a "discussion" and a "campaign". If you want a discussion, there are plenty of places to do that already. If you want a "campaign" you need to start with something concrete to begin with. As in, there would need to be some actual corruption. With Gamergate, there was never any corruption to begin with.
Quote
Member
I don't know how you can compare generalizations to harassment.
BlastProcessing
Member
A solid point.
faceless007
Member
While I accept your claim at face value, what you want GG to stand for is ultimately irrelevant, and here is why:
You'd have to be willfully oblivious to the level of goalpost-shifting going on amidst GGers to believe this.
Brutalitops
Banned
What started gamergate anyway, was it that Zoe Quinn chick? I kind of ignored this whole thing for a while and kind of wish I had continued doing so.
It actually took far, far longer than I'm comfortable with for this to sink into my thick skull. When you finally detach yourself from GG, and move away from the constant reinforcement the group provides that "no, we're doing the right thing! These are the bad guys, remember how bad they made you feel? We're doing the RIGHT THING!" you look and see holy shit.
This really IS a hate movement fueled by nutters. How did I get dragged into this?!
I'd implore GG supporters to distance themselves from the tag, and from the community, and take a very good look at everything that's going on, and all of the people who are being hurt. Are videogame websites, that we don't even visit, worth peoples LIVES being ruined? It's so easy to feel like it's all just a game, because we aren't the ones on the other end of the hatred. It's easy to point at someone and call "false flag!" because we aren't the ones who are sitting there, having people actually show up on our doorstep, saying "come out and plaaayy". The ends do NOT justify the means.
We don't NEED #GG to do good. There are a lot of people who want to achieve the same goals as us, but we are RADIOACTIVE until we move away from #GG because of what it represents. We can't start enacting change when the people who actually could start making these changes happen want nothing to do with us.
It's become pretty obvious that you have much more of a problem with your imagined people "Insulting Millions" than any of the abuse that's been flung at people.
And that's super fucked up. I don't really care how much you hate people being passionate it shouldn't erode your empathy for those affected.
When you care more about your "Gamer" image than the safety and sanity of people in this industry you cease to be a worthwhile fucking person.
Quote
Member
Yes, and it turned out to be not true nor really anyone's business?
Quoting this because it doesn't deserve to be at the bottom of a thread.
I think the moderates supporters of GamerGate fall into the type of people that Doug Wright called out before the last US election:
http://www.salon.com/2012/10/26/my_taxes_mean_more_than_your_fundamental_civil_rights/
And here we have it.
"I support Gamergate but know practically nothing about it but what I've been spoonfed!"
That is the face of "Moderate" Gamergate.
Don't join a mob if you don't know what it's aiming it's pitchforks at, people.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I've been perusing the gamergate hashtag about once a day for the past three days.
It is almost entirely "Brianna Wu is lying about being threatened," "Brianna Wu is lying about being hacked," "Brianna Wu hates people with asperger's syndrome," "Anita Sarkeesian is lying about X," "Anita Sarkeesian is a fraud," etc.
There are scattered amounts of people expressing a call for journalistic ethics, which, uh, real fucking brave of you? Of course people want journalistic ethics, but you have done nothing to explain what you feel the problem is or how you would like it fixed. You're latching on to a useless platitude that might as well say "I support the troops" or "Look at this fucking pink ribbon sticker I got" on the back of your car because of course everyone supports the troops and hates cancer.
If you're being charitable, you can describe the people who aren't making this about phantoms striking them in the darkness (with hoop earrings, apparently) as gullible people who view this as their opportunity to finally stand up for themselves and are not looking critically at what is happening. They are victims of propaganda, at best.
But to say 99% of these people are well-intentioned internet citizens who have no personal issue with anyone and merely want an end to corruption (that they are unable to identify) is intellectual dishonesty. Well, scratch that. It's just dishonesty.
It is almost entirely "Brianna Wu is lying about being threatened," "Brianna Wu is lying about being hacked," "Brianna Wu hates people with asperger's syndrome," "Anita Sarkeesian is lying about X," "Anita Sarkeesian is a fraud," etc.
There are scattered amounts of people expressing a call for journalistic ethics, which, uh, real fucking brave of you? Of course people want journalistic ethics, but you have done nothing to explain what you feel the problem is or how you would like it fixed. You're latching on to a useless platitude that might as well say "I support the troops" or "Look at this fucking pink ribbon sticker I got" on the back of your car because of course everyone supports the troops and hates cancer.
If you're being charitable, you can describe the people who aren't making this about phantoms striking them in the darkness (with hoop earrings, apparently) as gullible people who view this as their opportunity to finally stand up for themselves and are not looking critically at what is happening. They are victims of propaganda, at best.
But to say 99% of these people are well-intentioned internet citizens who have no personal issue with anyone and merely want an end to corruption (that they are unable to identify) is intellectual dishonesty. Well, scratch that. It's just dishonesty.
LiegeWaffle
Member
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
I'm not asking for #gamergate to be happy and I am under no delusion that they'd be happy if websites audited themselves.
In my opinion, the only "legitimate" aspect of #gamergate is the "journos are corrupt" thing. It brings in new converts because it is something that some people are concerned about whether they're even aware of the impetus for #gamergate.
The advice
is misplaced. The only thing keeping this alive (other than hate, of course) is that sliver of legitimacy lended by the "journos are corrupt" aspect of that whole thing. Don't talk about it AFTER things have cooled down with #gamergate. Talk about it NOW. Get it out into the open. Deflate #gamergate by removing the last thing they're rallying behind.
The thing is, there are serious problems in games journalism, but they're pretty much the opposite of what #GG has actually been complaining about: Big companies that make AAA games being responsible for ads and preview coverage. They don't mind that stuff because it supports their status quo of "traditional" big-budget games starring white guys with brown hair.
billy beane
Banned
Corruption in games journalism is hardly an issue compared to harassments and threats. I've always been someone to call out corruption in the industry, but GamerGate is much more harmful to the industry and medium than a couple writers lying about how awesome a game is.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I've said a million times I feel bad for anyone who feels that threatened and I don't have any gamer image lmao. I just don't like being lumped in with threatening dicks just because I think journalist x is poor or person y makes mediocre videos even if their original message is fantastic.
shacklesmcgee
Member
Devolution
Member
Contrarianism for the sake of it but no coherent point.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Brutalitops
Banned
The second was written after reconsidering my stance on things and realising I was unaware of the actual origins of the movement. I merely supported it when it was against corruption, not this threat bullshit. I could have worded the first post better I accept.
Thanks for writing this.
I've not compared them though? I simply stated those are two things that are happening...
I hate this stupid meme that those who harass and threaten somehow don't represent gamergate.
They absolutely represent gamergate, if not in name, then in spirit. They are the direct product of the awful, shitty, reprehensible, and exclusionary culture that gamergate wants to defend and perpetuate.
Edit:
Also, I agree with Frank Cifaldi. It's downright embarrassing that the large gaming websites haven't taken direct, pointed stands against gamergate at this point.
They absolutely represent gamergate, if not in name, then in spirit. They are the direct product of the awful, shitty, reprehensible, and exclusionary culture that gamergate wants to defend and perpetuate.
Edit:
Also, I agree with Frank Cifaldi. It's downright embarrassing that the large gaming websites haven't taken direct, pointed stands against gamergate at this point.
Brendan Keogh's article from what seems like a while ago made this point fairly well: https://overland.org.au/2014/09/game-of-moans-the-death-throes-of-the-male-gamer/
He contrasts his own experiences of being wined and dined and flown around by a big publisher for a preview, with meeting an Indie developer in person and loving their game. Oddly it seems like the current movement would be fine with the former, but count the latter as corruption.
ShockingAlberto
Member
That's laudable, actually.
I hope your research brings you to a more informed realization of what this movement is.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Some good stuff coming out of this hashtag:
Also this thread is moving way too fast to keep up at this point.
Also this thread is moving way too fast to keep up at this point.
LiegeWaffle
Member
There has already been a lot of discussion about why #gamergate is completely not about journalist ethics. Dismissal of the issues surrounding Shadow of Mordor and youtubers, coupled with attacks on people like Jeff Gertsmann and Jim Sterling are some of the most basic evidence for that; for more, you are welcome to skim the thread.
jim-jam bongs
Member
So then, like... stop supporting gamergate. Because doing so means that you're the one lumping yourself in with those people.
Surprise: It was never about corruption because nobody involved in the movement even knows what that means.
faceless007
Member
Except that 1) any attempt at addressing an issue even tangentially related to what GG disingenuously claims to be about right now will be seen as making concessions toward them and further empower them rather than "removing" anything, 2) some tried that by bringing attention to the Shadow of Mordor Youtubers scandal -- an actual documented issue of journalistic malfeasance -- and it predictably gained almost no traction whatsoever within #GG thus demonstrating that any of their claims to caring about journalistic ethics at all are transparently facetious bullshit, and 3) hate and hate alone is quite evidently more than sufficient to drive this movement; it needs no additional fuel.
Tesseract
Banned
this is a fantastic piece, thanks.
JesseEwiak
Member
#Gamergate is going to say certain sites are corrupt, and because frankly, most people don't look deep into any kind of claim made by another person, people will continue to believe said claims by #Gamergate that various sites are still corrupt.
I go back to the insane political claims, frankly, on both sides, that still persist despite evidence of them not being true. The 20 or 30 thousand people who feverently believe in #Gamergate won't suddenly disassociate from it, they'll just drift away over the next few months when Kotaku and Polygon don't burn to the ground and Patrick from Giantbomb isn't fired.
Again, ironically, the most corrupt part of the gaming industrial complex are likely Youtubers, since at least, at all of the major sites, there is a wall between editorial and sales that no one who has actually worked for one of those major sites, then left, has said doesn't exist.
Also, this. Corruption has become "you know somebody who makes games pretty well," despite ya' know, that's how you actually get stories, as the guys from Giantbomb recently went over on a recent podcast.
EmCeeGramr
Member
If this was ever really about corruption and ethics, then they wouldn't have immediately latched onto a far right tabloid writer with a history of unethical behavior, they wouldn't have vilified beloved consumer watchdogs (who previously called out journalistic failures) as "traitors" and dismissed their criticisms of the movement, and they wouldn't have trained themselves to have a Pavlovian reaction of "this is a psy ops distraction attempt, ignore, ignore, shut up" whenever someone tried to bring up actual issues of games industry ethics that exist in the real world.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yeah. They've been really goddamn ace about the whole thing for years now. I really want to bring up Magic more often in these discussions just because its pretty good proof that no, its really not that fucking hard to be more inclusive and representative.
For example, the main hero of the last year's worth of sets was Elspeth Tirel
This year three of their five major new characters are female, a monk battlemaster
A Naga tyrant
And a warrior queen
(the other two are an ogre warleader and the leader of a band of rugged survivalists)
aspiegamer
Member
At least there's some passive humor involved to help keep us sane.
https://twitter.com/SevenOfRhyme/status/522231838744383489
https://twitter.com/CrushedGAF/status/522232864004640768
EDIT: I should have pieced together that this is EmCeeGramr's Twitter because of the avatar. I apologize for randomly quoting you.
https://twitter.com/TristanACooper/status/522233592718843904
https://twitter.com/SevenOfRhyme/status/522231838744383489
Yeah, but the MC still died! Crap.
https://twitter.com/CrushedGAF/status/522232864004640768
EDIT: I should have pieced together that this is EmCeeGramr's Twitter because of the avatar. I apologize for randomly quoting you.
Hush you! Everyone knows Jesus was born on precisely December the 25th despite all the "objective" evidence otherwise and an angel dies every time someone says "happy holidays!"
https://twitter.com/TristanACooper/status/522233592718843904
Funnier than it should be.
I don't. I just think the games press circle jerk about it is also shitty and I don't support that either. You can say something like what I did in the last post and get multiple anti gg people comparing you to gun nuts and those threatening people.
The games press circle jerk that has largely refused to publish editorials explicitly denouncing gamergate? They need to be doing more, not less.
This is the first post in this thread that has given me hope. Thank you.
What press circle jerk?
dude what the fuck persona 3 spoilers
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
And that's fine that you feel that way. I don't agree with the attacks on these women at all. I just don't know what any of us can do to stop it. Bad analogy? Maybe, but I just don't see the benefit of starting a separate Twitter campaign to combat GamerGate. To me it is as effective as starting a twitter campaign to stop ISIS. That was my point.
Great, and now the threats are coming faster and fiercer now that these individuals have come out to the public. So how has anything become better? Not speaking out in the public about this does not mean people are silent on the matter. Work with the company you are with on the issue, law enforcement, etc. If none of those people are willing to help then what are they going to do to help when it really hits the fan? Taking this online is only making them a bigger target, and I fear jeopardizing their lives further, and may even make police investigations more difficult as people organize their attacks more so than they may have done before.
Really though the situation is toxic and I am not sure if there is a solution at this point. I would hate for this to end in these women's lives to be so tormented they cannot continue to live in their current state and have to move or leave their jobs. Just thinking about my wife and kids, I don't know how much more of this I could take. It hurts my head to think this is even happening in the first place.
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