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[Lalalandia]

When many have stories of sexual and emotional abuse from an industry person, are they not allowed to bring it to light?

Note hearsay != corroboration, there have been no other reports beyond 'I spoke to all my friends and they agree she is mean but thanks to her magic powers I fear mentioning her name lest I turn to stone'. I fully support instances of this being brought to light but 6 weeks in and the best anyone has is a break up story and hearsay, if you 100% trust a break up story then Eron had it shitty, shitty enough that calling in a hate mob on his ex was justified? Fuck no.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Shitheart (Baldwin) is a right wing racist so I'm not too inclined to give him any benefit of the doubt

 

[moondoggerr]

Here's an analogy that might be relevant.

I'm a muslim. There are "muslims" who go in the name of Islam and terrorise other innocent people. I don't want to align with them. So if they started a twitter hashtag like #muslimgate, and if it somehow morphed into an ulterior motive about wanting to destroy generalisations of muslims (maybe because ironically they started with harassing and attacking others which if avoided wouldn't have led to generalisations!), I'd still not align with the hashtag. Especially if attacks kept on happening in its name (but not in its name name because now that it's public we have to avoid directly linking it even though if you check our twitter feeds, it's pretty damn obvious!). Does it take some deaths for that message to become clear? I really hope not.

I like this analogy.

 

[shacklesmcgee]

Got a source for this? Can't find any mentions of stories, just the usual "whore" jokes.

Edit: NVM, was looking at older stuff, it's just a couple days ago. I don't think he mentions abuse stories as much her being a shitty person though.

All I see is a a breakdown. And that "I think gamergate is shit, industry is inundiated with corruption....but Quinn is a lying whore who lies and fuck her"

Edit : Yeaaaaah... Not the best "rational person" example. A "Zoe is a liar" post, an interesting retweet and a "Anita is a liar" post all in one

 

[shink]

Check his Twitter. Scroll down. Read from "I have talked to people who are afraid to come forward..." onwards

Can't seem to find what you're referring to unfortunately.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

I'm confused how criticism of #GG as a movement somehow directly translates to "every single member of GG has sent death threats".

 

[Gutsy Frog]

Note hearsay != corroboration, there have been no other reports beyond 'I spoke to all my friends and they agree she is mean but thanks to her magic powers I fear mentioning her name lest I turn to stone'. I fully support instances of this being brought to light but 6 weeks in and the best anyone has is a break up story and hearsay, if you 100% trust a break up story then Eron had it shitty, shitty enough that calling in a hate mob on his ex was justified? Fuck no.

We have a lot of stuff now.

-Eron's story

-a guy saying "Zoe Quinn harassed me" and getting shouted down for it and made to apologize to his alleged harasser

-a woman coming up and saying "Zoe had sex with my boyfriend while knowing full well that we were together"

-the BroTeamPill stuff

Would you react the same way if the genders were switched here? Not a rhetorical question.

Can't seem to find what you're referring to unfortunately.

https://twitter.com/BroTeamPill/with_replies

 

[zeldablue]

We have a lot of stuff now.

-Eron's story

-a guy saying "Zoe Quinn harassed me" and getting shouted down for it and made to apologize to his alleged harasser

-a woman coming up and saying "Zoe had sex with my boyfriend while knowing full well that we were together"

-the BroTeamPill stuff

Would you react the same way if the genders were switched here? Not a rhetorical question.



https://twitter.com/BroTeamPill/with_replies

Guys do this literally everyday. No one would listen on 4chan about a girl saying her boyfriend cheated on her. People have gender bias. It doesn't work at all when you switch genders. >__<

Plus guys tend not to be slut shamed...at all. Heck, guys get away with rape quite a bit because it's hard to prove and the victim already feels shamed and scared to speak. So, no I can't imagine this role reversal at all.

If Zoe did something that breaks the law, I hope to see people get justice. However, the internet vigilantism is awful and doesn't care about being fair or ethical.

 

[denshuu]

Man. Dudes with little anime girls in their avatars really like sending death threats over the internet.

 

[Gutsy Frog]

Guys do this literally everyday. No one would listen on 4chan about a girl saying her boyfriend cheated on her. People have gender bias. It doesn't work at all when you switch genders. >__<

Plus guys tend not to be slut shamed...at all.

It's not just "cheating"; if Eron's story is true, then there was also some pretty crazy emotional abuse at work there. If it was just "well she cheated on him with some other guys and they broke up" I wouldn't have cared as much. But what made me care even more was the way they shouted down Ouren for his claims of sexual harassment and all the other accusations that came after that.

And yes "people" have a gender bias. Not just 4chan, people in general.. A primarily-female nerd community like Tumblr would have likely made a bigger deal of it than 4chan. I think this is shitty and there's definitely highly engrained sexism in all of us but it's not a one-way street.

 

[GamerJM]

We have a lot of stuff now.

-Eron's story

-a guy saying "Zoe Quinn harassed me" and getting shouted down for it and made to apologize to his alleged harasser

-a woman coming up and saying "Zoe had sex with my boyfriend while knowing full well that we were together"

-the BroTeamPill stuff

Would you react the same way if the genders were switched here? Not a rhetorical question.



https://twitter.com/BroTeamPill/with_replies

I'm confused: What does any of this have to do with anything that this topic is even about (GG)? Yeah, Zoe may or may not be a shitty person. I don't really know. There's various amounts of evidence but nothing that definitely proves that she is. And even if she is: Who cares? What does that prove? It still didn't give Eron the right to make an extremely vengeful blog post about Zoe's personal life and her personal information. If he really believed that Zoe Quinn is a harmful person responsible for harassment/abuse then he should have informed the people he knows that are in different types of relationships with Zoe in private. None of this gives him the right to write an extremely vengeful, public blog post about her, with many allegations.

And I don't see anything here that justifies death threats/harassment. Mainly because those aren't justifiable period. And the fact that you try to hand-wave those as "fake" death threats is really troublesome.

 

[Orayn]

I'm confused: What does any of this have to do with anything that this topic is even about (GG)? Yeah, Zoe may or may not be a shitty person. I don't really know. There's various amounts of evidence but nothing that definitely proves that she is. And even if she is: Who cares? What does that prove? It still didn't give Eron the right to make an extremely vengeful blog post about Zoe's personal life and her personal information. If he really believed that Zoe Quinn is a harmful person responsible for harassment/abuse then he should have informed the people he knows that are in different types of relationships with Zoe in private. None of this gives him the right to write an extremely vengeful, public blog post about her, with many allegations.

And I don't see anything here that justifies death threats/harassment. Mainly because those aren't justifiable period. And the fact that you try to hand-wave those as "fake" death threats is really troublesome.

As one of Bro Team's fairly close internet friends, that whole tirade made me really uncomfortable because of the timing involved. He's not "pro-GG," he does believe that Quinn and Anita get actual threats, and he doesn't think that they deserve what's been happening, but he still decides to go on rants about what terrible people they are at the worst possible times.

 

[zeldablue]

It's not just "cheating"; if Eron's story is true, then there was also some pretty crazy emotional abuse at work there. If it was just "well she cheated on him with some other guys and they broke up" I wouldn't have cared as much. But what made me care even more was the way they shouted down Ouren for his claims of sexual harassment and all the other accusations that came after that.

And yes "people" have a gender bias. Not just 4chan, people in general.. A primarily-female nerd community like Tumblr would have likely made a bigger deal of it than 4chan. I think this is shitty and there's definitely highly engrained sexism in all of us but it's not a one-way street.

Yeah. I agree. Which is why I back the heck out of that and let people who are trained professionals deal with it. I'm well aware women can be god awful people. If Zoe is that, then I hope they take it off twitter and put it in court.

Emotional abuse is a part of life. But what you do with that abuse matters. Get justice, not revenge.

Also...I thought this wasn't about Zoe...is it or is it not?

 

[Gutsy Frog]

I'm confused: What does any of this have to do with anything that this topic is even about (GG)? Yeah, Zoe may or may not be a shitty person. I don't really know. There's various amounts of evidence but nothing that definitely proves that she is. And even if she is: Who cares? What does that prove? It still didn't give Eron the right to make an extremely vengeful blog post about Zoe's personal life and her personal information. If he really believed that Zoe Quinn is a harmful person responsible for harassment/abuse then he should have informed the people he knows that are in different types of relationships with Zoe in private. None of this gives him the right to write an extremely vengeful, public blog post about her, with many allegations.

And I don't see anything here that justifies death threats/harassment. Mainly because those aren't justifiable period. And the fact that you try to hand-wave those as "fake" death threats is really troublesome.

Are you serious, dude? I said this like a second ago:

I'm going to watch the Sargon and MundaneMatt videos to see what I think of them. If I come to the conclusion that they are bullshit, you can be 100% sure that I will call them out and inform all of my friends who care about this stuff.

I'm going to do a bunch of research and see what arguments people used to claim the threads were faked before commenting further. But if I do come to the conclusion they are full of shit then I'll admit that GG have a massive problem with deflecting blame through denial. I'll still view active anti-GGers as a problematic group though (and it still is a group).

I've also said that I'm not a "Gamergate supporter" and that I'm mostly neutral on this stuff. I've criticized multiple aspects of GG in this very thread. And yet you're treating me like a newspaper cartoon caricature of a "GamerGater".

 

[Lalalandia]

We have a lot of stuff now.

-Eron's story

A breakup story not exactly known for being honest and let's remember he specifically worked to ensure this got a lot of attention from people he knew would make Zoe's life hell. This is not a person working through surviving abuse this is a person looking for revenge not an emotion associated with a healthy recovery.

-a guy saying "Zoe Quinn harassed me" and getting shouted down for it and made to apologize to his alleged harasser

The Ouren stuff is far more complicated than you paint it here and is not more than a handful of tweets that can be interpreted as 'ZQs friends shouted down one of her victims' or 'Other party attendees think he's full of shit'.

-a woman coming up and saying "Zoe had sex with my boyfriend while knowing full well that we were together"

Another ex story and again how is this related to 'game ethics' more to the point even if you accept her version of events how is it Zoe's fault if her BF is a piece of shit?

-the BroTeamPill stuff

Hearsay != evidence.

Would you react the same way if the genders were switched here? Not a rhetorical question.

https://twitter.com/BroTeamPill/with_replies

That link does not help your argument at all, what you have there is a mad man cutting and pasting select quotes from a blog to build a case against someone he already doesn't like. And doing it badly.

Still not reaching a level of proof I am comfortable with but how is this anything to with GamerGate, you know the movement that is about 'game ethics'? Or is this really about women?

Edit: Woops didn't answer your question, I'd do the same and think the ex who chose to dump their history on a forum who has a history of harassing that ex was not acting honestly. That dishonesty means I have a hard time trusting their claims on the face of it but I hope that person would find some closure and move on. Would I then decide that 'Man X' is worth chasing all over the internet because of how shitty their personal life is alleged to be? No.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

It's relevant for the same reason every feminist frequency thread used to devolve into long angry rants by people about what a lying thief she is.

By which I mean to say: it's not relevant at all.

 

[GamerJM]

Are you serious, dude? I said this like a second ago:





I've also said that I'm not a "Gamergate supporter" and that I'm mostly neutral on this stuff. I've criticized multiple aspects of GG in this very thread. And yet you're treating me like a newspaper cartoon caricature of a "GamerGater".

I'm not treating you like a GamerGate supporter, I'm just expressing my opinions on what you said. I thought I saw you say earlier that Zoe was receiving "fake" death threats. Maybe I just misremembered or misunderstood something you posted, and I apologize if that is the case. But if not I stand by what I said.

 

[partyphone]

Total Biscuit's latest take.



I get what he's saying, but I feel like it's far too late to take the "ignore them and they'll go away" approach. The toxicity has grown to an unstable level, especially with people like Milo and Adam Baldwin continuing to feed the beast.

ugh. what he needs to be doing is just telling gg people to stop instead of mansplaining death threats.

 

[shacklesmcgee]

how is this anything to with GamerGate, you know the movement that is about 'game ethics'? Or is this really about women?

What do you think?

If it was just "well she cheated on him with some other guys and they broke up" I wouldn't have cared as much. But what made me care even more was the way they shouted down Ouren for his claims of sexual harassment and all the other accusations that came after that.

 

[shink]

I don't see why anyone's personal relationships is of any relevance to the general audience at large regardless, just because they so happen to be in the industry.

There is no real scandal to be made from that unless this has turned into a gossip magazine.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Wasn't "Ouren" actively participating in those IRC-based harassment campaigns against Zoe?

 

[MYeager]

We have a lot of stuff now.

-Eron's story

-a guy saying "Zoe Quinn harassed me" and getting shouted down for it and made to apologize to his alleged harasser

-a woman coming up and saying "Zoe had sex with my boyfriend while knowing full well that we were together"

-the BroTeamPill stuff

Would you react the same way if the genders were switched here? Not a rhetorical question.



https://twitter.com/BroTeamPill/with_replies

If the genders were switched I'd still think it was a sad, highly personal issue and that the people involved need therapy and not really any of my business. Itagaki was accused and had charges of sexual harassment filed against him and despite having being a much larger name in the industry didn't inspire this sort of vitriol. I only see this being brought up by people saying Zoe isn't a good person! And to that I say, okay? I don't care if she is or isn't. I do care that people think it's some sort of excuse to justify any of the actions that have been done against her.

 

[tonysidaway]

I wish the mods would step in and draw the line at what is clearly becoming gossip about somebody's private life. This thread is supposed to be about Gamergate.

 

[pslong009]

I'd say actual abuse that really happened is more severe than a fake threat. I'm not saying the fake threats are not also severe, but...

How are fake threats not "actual abuse"? Do the people receiving the threats know that they're fake? No! We're talking about people who, while public figures, are not so much in the spotlight that personal information like home addresses and names of family members are public knowledge, so being threatened by people who are armed with that knowledge is going to be extremely frightening. Even if the person receiving the threat believes that it's likely fake, there's always going to be the thought in the back of their mind of "what if it's not?" and knowing that their loved ones could be endangered. Because they spoke up about video games.

 

[Nalsh]

I wish the mods would step in and draw the line at what is clearly becoming gossip about somebody's private life. This thread is supposed to be about Gamergate.

Gamergate's foundation is gossip about somebody's private life.

 

[Lalalandia]

I wish the mods would step in and draw the line at what is clearly becoming gossip about somebody's private life. This thread is supposed to be about Gamergate.

You have a very good point I should have drawn a line earlier in this conversation. In a weird way that we spent so long going back and forth on the ZQ thing kind of highlights that remains the core of GG for more folks than care to admit it.

 

[MasterHoodie]

I don't see why anyone's personal relationships is of any relevance to the general audience at large regardless, just because they so happen to be in the industry.

There is no real scandal to be made from that unless this has turned into a gossip magazine.

If you write about games for a living, and you call it journalism, it's a general journalism ethics rule that you want to keep your sources at arms length. The game industry is weird because you can't really afford to do that. There are ways that it can work. The Youtube channel SuperBunnyHop did an interview with a real life journalist about journalism rules and ethics as it relates to GamerGate. Note that this guy doesn't know the first thing about video games, so it's a fairly unbiased assessment.. I'd bet that would clear up your curiosity. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?annot...&feature=iv&src_vid=mLNZFWR0Q8M&v=4-7RLxrsJ04)

 

[Gutsy Frog]

Edit: fuck it, I won't talk about Quinn anymore. The only reason I brought it up was to explain why I don't think GG started as 'abuse' but this is turning into a pointless Zoe argument. Sorry, I'm gonna drop this right now.

 

[zeldablue]

Yeah, I guess it's best to back off of personal matters. :S

 

[Lalalandia]

NVM still drifting OT

 

[Fraeon]

Eh...

So stupid how this shit went. GG had a chance to do some actual good but that possibility has been wasted long ago. Granted, the primus motor was some pretty heinous shit but instead of turning away from it, I guess the ones running the movement feel like instead of turning away from that shit (doxxing, threats, trolling), it's better that they double down on it.

There's plenty to discuss regarding what the movement is allegedly about but before we can even consider that an issue, it's an even bigger issue that the GG movement is slowly turning into an actual terrorist organization.

Disbelief is the only thing I have here.

 

[frequency]

I was gonna go with :

"This is how I deal with fear and being terrorized, everyone should do the same!"

Also, wasn't TotalBiscuit that youtuber that literally censored the Bioshock Infinite dev a month or so ago?

It was more than a month. Shawn Elliot just posted about it recently because he was no longer employed there (studio shut down I think). Shawn said something on Twitter that TB didn't like so TB's PR people got Shawn to shut up by complaining to his bosses. I think they worked it out or whatever recently though.

The message:

“We run a popular gaming channel with over one million subscribers and have a Twitter following of almost 190,000. I would like to bring to your attention the fact that Shawn Elliot, one of your employees, posted a derogatory remark earlier today about my employer, namely "Fucking yuck. @totalbiscuit is truly gross". That remark was deduced from an out-of-context screenshot he had discovered of a partial conversation between my employer and an obnoxious person over Twitter. The image had been circulating on one of 4chan\'s hate threads in the /v/ section, where Shawn or a follower of his might've stumbled upon it.
Without confirming whether that image represented the entire conversation, Shawn proceeded to tweet the aforementioned remark about TotalBiscuit to his 16,000 followers, which include a lot of industry professionals we are in contact with, have collaborated with or wish to in the future (names include Tom Ohle, Ben Kuchera, Evolve PR, Justin Kranzl, etc). Needless to say this tarnishes my employer's image greatly, all because of a misunderstanding. We felt this most certainly constitutes getting off on the wrong foot, which led to my employer posting an audio clip directed at Shawn, meant to explain the entire situation in detail (you can listen to it here: http://bit.ly/10WLPxs). Here is a screenshot of Shawn's tweet and a link to his actual tweet: https://twitter.com/ShawnElliott/status/343151754554269697 // http://i.imgur.com/hQkBdMY.png We would appreciate it if Shawn could abstain from posting such remarks in the future and if he would be so kind so as to issue a public apology to my employer, as unverified offensive statements aimed at industry professionals do nobody any good.”

Source: http://shawnelliott.blogspot.ca/2014/09/the-time-that-totalbiscuit-totally-told.html

 

[partyphone]

Eh...

So stupid how this shit went. GG had a chance to do some actual good but that possibility has been wasted long ago. Granted, the primus motor was some pretty heinous shit but instead of turning away from it, I guess the ones running the movement feel like instead of turning away from that shit (doxxing, threats, trolling), it's better that they double down on it.

There's plenty to discuss regarding what the movement is allegedly about but before we can even consider that an issue, it's an even bigger issue that the GG movement is slowly turning into an actual terrorist organization.

Disbelief is the only thing I have here.

I dunno, I don't think it ever had a chance. It started with Adam Baldwin and attracted the type of people who think the ZQ matter has any wider significance to video games. That group of people isn't going anywhere but down.


edit: then you throw in people like Sommers and Milo and the entire movement gets co-opted by anti-feminists and conservative culture warriors and becomes just another right wing conspiracy theorizing whiny martyring threatfest.

 

[zeldablue]

Eh...
There's plenty to discuss regarding what the movement is allegedly about but before we can even consider that an issue, it's an even bigger issue that the GG movement is slowly turning into an actual terrorist organization.

Disbelief is the only thing I have here.

Like I said. Gamergate is heading past Stage 4 of a hate group towards actual real life violence. There are plenty of people in GG that are only at Stage 1 or 2. But then there might be a few crazies going all the way to Stage 7.

That can't be allowed to happen. If there is actual violence to come out of this...then what is wrong with this world...

 

[Lime]

All development and release of ANY video games should be put on hold and not be released until these fucking bigots stop pissing their diapers and cease to fucking threaten with death because they can't handle a woman voicing her opinion.

Additionally, EVERY article, EVERY talk at a conference, EVERY presentation at a trade show, EVERY video game, should only have women in them. Because this is getting insane.

 

[MasterHoodie]

I dunno, I don't think it ever had a chance. It started with Adam Baldwin and attracted the type of people who think the ZQ matter has any wider significance to video games. That group of people isn't going anywhere but down.

It's really unfortunate that this whole thing got off the back foot because of the wrong message at the very beginning.

 

[v4skunk84]

Are you referring to this article about misogyny in gaming which is primarily about the harassment of women with a brief mention of corruption but surrounds it with people dismissing it.

Yeah that is it, but the BBC have updated the article with a more in depth report of misogyny in the industry.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

GG had a chance to do some actual good but that possibility has been wasted long ago.

No, it really didn't. GG's platform was built upon and spearheaded by those outraged by a woman who dared to have sex. If someone tells you otherwise then they either weren't there from the beginning or they're blinded by their own self-righteousness. Those who actually care about journalistic integrity/ethics have long since divorced themselves from the GG tag. Those who are determined to keep it alive are the very same that focused entirely on the actions of a woman developer from the very start and the numerous pawns they've managed to convince otherwise..

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

All development and release of ANY video games should be put on hold and not be released until these fucking bigots stop pissing their diapers and cease to fucking threaten with death because they can't handle a woman voicing her opinion.

Additionally, EVERY article, EVERY talk at a conference, EVERY presentation at a trade show, EVERY video game, should only have women in them. Because this is getting insane.

That would be like using nuclear weapons against street gangs.

 

[shink]

If you write about games for a living, and you call it journalism, it's a general journalism ethics rule that you want to keep your sources at arms length. The game industry is weird because you can't really afford to do that. There are ways that it can work. The Youtube channel SuperBunnyHop did an interview with a real life journalist about journalism rules and ethics as it relates to GamerGate. Note that this guy doesn't know the first thing about video games, so it's a fairly unbiased assessment.. I'd bet that would clear up your curiosity. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?annot...&feature=iv&src_vid=mLNZFWR0Q8M&v=4-7RLxrsJ04)

Yeah forgot to add with exception for ethics/criminal activity of course.

 

[Fraeon]

Those who actually care about journalistic integrity/ethics have long since divorced themselves from the GG tag.

Which was my point. The movement had its chance, I feel, but instead the ones running it feel like it's more important to get women out of the industry.

I'm ashamed to admit that I even agreed on some of the points made by the movement (massively disagreed with some other points, hence never took part in any of the campaigns) -- but really at this point, GG is really approaching an actual terrorist organization and talking to them is pointless.

 

[Galactic Fork]

It was more than a month. Shawn Elliot just posted about it recently because he was no longer employed there (studio shut down I think). Shawn said something on Twitter that TB didn't like so TB's PR people got Shawn to shut up by complaining to his bosses. I think they worked it out or whatever recently though.

The message:

Source: http://shawnelliott.blogspot.ca/2014/09/the-time-that-totalbiscuit-totally-told.html

Sooooo he takes death threats in silence and demands everyone does the same, but someone calling him "gross" on the internet must result in swift justice. Noted.

 

[MasterHoodie]

Which was my point. The movement had its chance, I feel, but instead the ones running it feel like it's more important to get women out of the industry.

I'm ashamed to admit that I even agreed on some of the points made by the movement (massively disagreed with some other points, hence never took part in any of the campaigns) -- but really at this point, GG is really approaching an actual terrorist organization and talking to them is pointless.

I think calling Gamergate a terrorist organization is a bit of an overexaggeration. A large group of teenagers who tweet a hashtag doesn't really equal Al-Queda.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

I think calling Gamergate a terrorist organization is a bit of an overexaggeration. A large group of teenagers who tweet a hashtag doesn't really equal Al-Queda.

Al-Queda is not the be all and end all of terrorism.

 

[Orayn]

I think calling Gamergate a terrorist organization is a bit of an overexaggeration. A large group of teenagers who tweet a hashtag doesn't really equal Al-Queda.

No, but it's true that terrorist tactics are being used by some people who share their agenda and are sympathetic to their cause. As in "terroristic threats" is one of the formal definitions of what recently happened with USU.

 

[Lalalandia]

They're no ISIS or AQ and comparisons are overwrought at best. Fake bomb threats are a terrorist tactic as anyone who used the Tube in London in the 80s can attest (or lives in NI today).

 

[TommyT]

All development and release of ANY video games should be put on hold and not be released until these fucking bigots stop pissing their diapers and cease to fucking threaten with death because they can't handle a woman voicing her opinion.

Additionally, EVERY article, EVERY talk at a conference, EVERY presentation at a trade show, EVERY video game, should only have women in them. Because this is getting insane.

This will do more harm that it would good as it would most likely just stoke the fire.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I'm ashamed to admit that I even agreed on some of the points made by the movement (massively disagreed with some other points, hence never took part in any of the campaigns) -- but really at this point, GG is really approaching an actual terrorist organization and talking to them is pointless.

The thing that gets me is that most of us who disagree with GG absolutely believe journalistic integrity and ethics are important in gaming. We'd love to have a dialogue on gaming ethics but many of us see the continued harassment and segregation within the gaming community to be a much more dire and disturbing thing in need of correction. Once a landscape of inclusiveness that condemns harassment has been laid out then it's suitable time to discuss journalistic ethics. I'm speaking personally but I've not the fortitude to take on both harassment and corruption in journalism at the same time.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Sooooo he takes death threats in silence and demands everyone does the same, but someone calling him "gross" on the internet must result in swift justice. Noted.

I don't see any correlation between the two incidents or how they contradict with what he said. The PR message wasn't intended to be publicly, actually seems it was deal with privately.

And secondly I don't think he says you have to take them in silence, but rather "go to the authorities and let them deal with it without making it public".

 

[Orayn]

This will do more harm that it would good as it would most likely just stoke the fire.

So what would do some good, then? Doing the opposite also means letting them win, because their goal is to get women out of gaming.