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[mrklaw]

Makes sense, but will this be region based for the odd occurrence of games releasing first in eu/uk?

Just wondering as I'm UK based.

If games are out close together then they'll go live with the first region. So those occasional global releases might go live Australian time (realistically the day before US time if they have a US author)

I'm from the UK and this is probably best for us. OTs will most likely go up on US launch day so we will still get a few days of Impressions etc and still have time to preorder if necessary. Sometimes week early OTs were painful as it was almost two weeks before UK launch.

 

[Hot Coldman]

It's been noted and agreed to for the most part. Don't assume that because we haven't responded that we haven't discussed it.

I'm for it. I don't like it but let's be real, it makes sense.

Obnoxious adware, though? Seriously? If that's that then what the fuck are any OTs?

 

[Ozium]

Can we make an exception for Half-Life 3?

The day it gets announced with a release date is the day the OT goes up..

sound good?

 

[Hasney]

I would like to chime in for the 24-48 hours before would be better. This is mainly because if it is something that has a worldwide release date and I've pre-ordered a physical copy, the likelihood is that I will have the game before release in the UK as they're shipped before then.

Other than that, I'm fine.

 

[Jack Remington]

Another needed policy change: don't allow anyone to reserve OP privileges. Get rid of the sectioned-off OP construction zone we've all heard rumors of. Make it a free-for-all on launch day.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Another needed policy change: don't allow anyone to reserve OP privileges. Get rid of the sectioned-off OP construction zone we've all heard rumors of. Make it a free-for-all on launch day.

that would be a terrible idea, unless you want like six Smash Wii U OTs on launch day

 

[Jack Remington]

that would be a terrible idea, unless you want like six Smash Wii U OTs on launch day

Sure. The best one will stay on the front page; the other five will be irrelevant within an hour.

It could cut down on the OP bloat significantly and make things more meritocratic.

There's literally zero downside to this move.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Sure. The best one will stay on the front page; the other five will be irrelevant within an hour.

It could cut down on the OP bloat significantly and make things more meritocratic.

There's literally zero downside to this move.

It wouldn't cut down on OP bloat at all. They'd be the exact same size. Things would be exactly the same as they are now, except the mods have to shut down the five competing OTs that pop up at the same time.

Criticisms about OT reservation should be left to the manner in which they're reserved and the content within. I'd argue for OT rights only being available for claim 2 weeks before the game's launch, and them going through moderation approval to avoid garbage like the MGS4 thread (this can simply mean having the thread shut the fuck down if it's borderline viral marketing). Plus certain members should just not be allowed to make OTs, based on some of the shit I've seen in the past. Not naming names, of course.

There are very real, frankly very clear paths to further improving how OTs are managed, but removing the systems that make things tidier is not one of them.

 

[LonelyGreyWolf]

Another needed policy change: don't allow anyone to reserve OP privileges. Get rid of the sectioned-off OP construction zone we've all heard rumors of. Make it a free-for-all on launch day.

Sure. The best one will stay on the front page; the other five will be irrelevant within an hour.

It could cut down on the OP bloat significantly and make things more meritocratic.

There's literally zero downside to this move.

What even? Some people put tens of hours into their OT's. Why make a clusterfuck of OT's that people have put (in this case: wasted) much time into. Also, as stated, you can't "reserve" anything. You can say "I want to do this OT". Then someone says "I too want to do this OT". And then you two work together like civilized people. That's how it works. It's no ones right to "claim" an OP.

I quote:

- If someone else wants the thread after you, WORK WITH THEM. You are not entitled to make the thread exclusively. It's not your personal fortress. The claiming is about preventing two people wasting their time making duelling threads, it's not about allowing you to exclude others. If there are any problems cooperating, solve them yourselves. This is not kindergarten, moderators here are not your teachers.

 

[QaaQer]

One of my ideas that has almost no chance of actually being implemented (at least site wide) is to explicitly forbid scores discussion in a review thread. And by that, I just mean that the OP would contain a link to the metacritic page, it would contain links to the reviews, it would contain noteworthy excerpts from better reviews, but absolutely no mention of any scores. People would be welcome to talk about any review they wanted, but only by responding to actual text contained in the review.

Further, any linking of a new review would require excerpts as well. Not just "here's so and so's review." The aim would again be to get past the hype cycle and weed out people that only want to cheer on scores that further the narrative about the game's quality that they already arrived at before playing it. You want to talk about reviews? Then actually talk about the substance of the reviews and not just the scores!

Again, though, I wouldn't be too worried that this would be something we'd actually try as an official, site-wide policy.

I'd love it if that was the case. Maybe there could be a separate MC thread for the numbers people.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Did you actually get any knockback against that from the rest of the moderation team, Steve? Because that would be neat.

Nothing you can't encourage via one's own attempts at discussion, mind. I know I don't wanna talk about scores much.

 

[Dash Kappei]

One of my ideas that has almost no chance of actually being implemented (at least site wide) is to explicitly forbid scores discussion in a review thread. And by that, I just mean that the OP would contain a link to the metacritic page, it would contain links to the reviews, it would contain noteworthy excerpts from better reviews, but absolutely no mention of any scores. People would be welcome to talk about any review they wanted, but only by responding to actual text contained in the review.

Further, any linking of a new review would require excerpts as well. Not just "here's so and so's review." The aim would again be to get past the hype cycle and weed out people that only want to cheer on scores that further the narrative about the game's quality that they already arrived at before playing it. You want to talk about reviews? Then actually talk about the substance of the reviews and not just the scores!

Again, though, I wouldn't be too worried that this would be something we'd actually try as an official, site-wide policy.

Scores are important and are an integral part of a review, they're so important that (unfortunately, imo) the livelihood of developers is more often than not attached to them. Making a RT should serve to discuss any part of a review and it'd be pretty pointless to put artificial barriers in place just to forbid what is in-topic relevant discussion.

 

[Jack Remington]

What even? Some people put tens of hours into their OT's

This is a problem. My solution would solve it.

 

[NumberThree]

This is a problem. My solution would solve it.

Nope, your solution would cause multiple people to use dozens of hours on their OT to make the best one. Because that's how people are.

 

[Ozium]

Nope, your solution would cause multiple people to use dozens of hours on their OT to make the best one. Because that's how people are.

and then get salty when the hard work they've put in is locked

 

[Jimmyfenix]

This is a problem. My solution would solve it.

Your solution is kinda crazy. Wouldn't it make it harder on the mods to close down so many ots on day one and choose the best one?

 

[SteveWinwood]

Pastrami melt sandwich and a small salad.

Done.

 

[theJohann]

One of my ideas that has almost no chance of actually being implemented (at least site wide) is to explicitly forbid scores discussion in a review thread.

I absolutely agree that this should somehow be encouraged, or even enforced. People look at low numbers and immediately dismiss either the game or the reviewer as bad, or, if the numbers are high, they simply confirm their pre-existing notion that the game is excellent without having played it themselves prior to arriving at this conclusion.

Here is an example of what I think has become a prevalent and degenerative mindset amongst certain members here; people like seeing the game they're excited about receive high scores, because it validates their beliefs. When something contradicts that, they demonise it and turn it into a villain.

Removing this peculiar obsession with review scores and refocusing it on the review itself will, I predict, contribute to diminishing this mentality.

 

[UrbanRats]

Sounds good.
i only have 2 concerns:

1 - What about the people who get the game early (in legitimate ways)?

2 - The OTs in the days prior to release were a good resource to get advice on when to preorder the game for cheap and keep and eye on offers of this kind (on GMG, Nuuvem and similar sites offering steam keys, for example).

 

[Son Of D]

Makes sense, but will this be region based for the odd occurrence of games releasing first in eu/uk?

Just wondering as I'm UK based.

If EU gets a game before the US then the OT will be up for the European release. If Japan gets a game before EU/US it's usually an Import thread as opposed to a full OT (unless the gap is small in that case it's a full OT).

 

[chubigans]

Speaking of glorified chat threads, please consider moving the obnoxious front page adware that are the "Giant Bomb" and "Super Best Friends" multi mega-threads to Gaming Community.

It makes zero sense that this doesn't happen already.

Well?

Thanks, no fun police. *pouts*

 

[Sorian]

Sounds good.
i only have 2 concerns:

1 - What about the people who get the game early (in legitimate ways)?

2 - The OTs in the days prior to release were a good resource to get advice on when to preorder the game for cheap and keep and eye on offers of this kind (on GMG, Nuuvem and similar sites offering steam keys, for example).

Number 2 is a big one for me as well.

 

[Acosta]

charlequin covered this on the last page. It's already been a rule that we don't encourage hype threads, although recently a few have slipped past. We want new information leading up to release to be highlighted in new threads, and we don't want threads whose only purpose is to contain conversations like "OMFG I CAN'T WAIT" "YEAH BRO" "HIGH FIVE!" "DAY 1!!!" "FUCK YEAH!" ad nauseum.

I don't understand this, why is this bad? I have seen this kind of stuff since neogaf was gaf and it was a natural part of the forum.

What's next? no hype for E3 conferences? Just post discussion and analysis?

I understood and was agree with the point of OTs being too long with a week before launch. But I don't understand why is not possible to have a 24h of leeway for people sharing a bit of enthusiasm. Some of the warmest moments in this community has been in moments like that.

Anyway, just my two cents, I'm usually behind you guys, 100%, because I know moderating is tough and you know better. But I feel this is a bit of a overkill.

 

[Silky]

Speaking of glorified chat threads, please consider moving the obnoxious front page adware that are the "Giant Bomb" and "Super Best Friends" multi mega-threads to Gaming Community.

Adware eh

 

[QisTopTier]

Adware eh

It's funny because their name


Also day of seems too late for people that get games early

Edit: Those people can actually provide discussion of the game and answer questions to people on the fence.

Also that review discussion thing would be nice but yeah I could see that breaking down fast

 

[bishoptl]

Speaking of glorified chat threads, please consider moving the obnoxious front page adware that are the "Giant Bomb" and "Super Best Friends" multi mega-threads to Gaming Community.

This is a good idea.

 

[charlequin]

I don't understand this, why is this bad?

It's bad when it happens at a level that distracts from other types of discussion. NeoGAF has ten times as many posters now as it did when I joined. The volume of individual threads is far in excess of what we used to see, which means we have to try doing stuff differently to keep the signal level as high as possible.

Once we try this out for a month or so, we'll have a clearer idea of exactly how it's working, and we can figure out whether there's any other things we need to tweak.

Another needed policy change: don't allow anyone to reserve OP privileges. Get rid of the sectioned-off OP construction zone we've all heard rumors of. Make it a free-for-all on launch day.

There is zero chance this or anything like it will ever happen.

 

[shoryukens]

Jumping on gaf and seeing both Smash OT threads on launch day was pretty overwhelming so this change seem sensible.

 

[Acosta]

It's bad when it happens at a level that distracts from other types of discussion. NeoGAF has ten times as many posters now as it did when I joined. The volume of individual threads is far in excess of what we used to see, which means we have to try doing stuff differently to keep the signal level as high as possible.

Once we try this out for a month or so, we'll have a clearer idea of exactly how it's working, and we can figure out whether there's any other things we need to tweak.

I got distracted and I didn't see that this thread was already several pages long when I posted, sorry for making you explain it all again.

I understand why is this and what is the objective, and I know neogaf is a much bigger community, so I trust you to police in the most reasonable way given the circumstances. As some people have mentioned, I would like to have a reduced period for pre-release community bonding around a game, but that's just me from the egotistical view of a sole member that is not in charge or need to overview anything. I just felt the need to share my feelings about it.

I'm sure the mod team will do what is best. You have my support.

 

[Megasoum]

This is a good idea.

So does that mean that the Steam , CAG, PC Screenshots, Zero Punctiation, etc are also moving to the community tab?

Those are all community focused threads too after all...

 

[The Llama]

So does that mean that the Steam , CAG, PC Screenshots, Zero Punctiation, etc are also moving to the community tab?

Those are all community focused threads too after all...

I wouldn't mind it. But thats just me.

 

[Megasoum]

I wouldn't mind it. But thats just me.

Well I guess it's one way to drive people into the community ghetto if you move half the threads over there...

 

[The Llama]

Well I guess it's one way to drive people into the community ghetto if you move half the threads over there...

"Half the threads"

Come on now, no need to be alarmist. Its just a bunch of megathreads. We have a community forum for a reason. Maybe moving some of these threads over there is a good way to get people to actually post there!

 

[pariah164]

Been chewing on this a couple of days. Still not okay with it. Once again, I would prefer a '24 hours before release' restriction rather than release day only. I understand wanting to cut down on spam and such, and not wanting an OT to get too big too fast and alienate those that might be interested. But setting it to only be posted on release day seems too extreme.

 

[civilstrife]

Won't this just cause a bunch of new threads in the week before release for every tiny bit of news about the game?

"Smash being sold 3 hours early at my local game store"

"New screenshot from Smash"

"Kirby's Final Smash shortened by 1 second in Smash"

 

[pelican]

I'm from the UK and this is probably best for us. OTs will most likely go up on US launch day so we will still get a few days of Impressions etc and still have time to preorder if necessary. Sometimes week early OTs were painful as it was almost two weeks before UK launch.

Very true, it works out well for us.

 

[Sorian]

Won't this just cause a bunch of new threads in the week before release for every tiny bit of news about the game?

"Smash being sold 3 hours early at my local game store"

"New screenshot from Smash"

"Kirby's Final Smash shortened by 1 second in Smash"

I hope so.

 

[Coreda]

So does that mean that the Steam , CAG, PC Screenshots, Zero Punctiation, etc are also moving to the community tab?

Those are all community focused threads too after all...

Stump talked about this in the Steam thread as I was curious about it one time, and said that Steam, GOG and Origin - platform threads - will continue to stay in Gaming, as while they can contain some banter it's a centralized place for PC gamers to find new deals/releases/general Steam info.

 

[LonelyGreyWolf]

Stump talked about this in the Steam thread as I was curious about it one time, and said that Steam, GOG and Origin - platform threads - will continue to stay in Gaming, as while they can contain some banter it's a centralized place for PC gamers to find new deals/releases/general Steam info.

Everyone who reads them are probably subscribed to them at this point anyway, no? I say almost every megathread belong to the community sub-forum after having been in the gaming section for a month or so.

 

[Megasoum]

Everyone who reads them are probably subscribed to them at this point anyway, no? I say almost every megathread belong to the community sub-forum after having been in the gaming section for a month or so.

I can only talk about the GB thread since this is the one of those I visit the most but the problem is not about the usual posters who will obviously follow the thread wherever it goes (heck... I keep the thread opened in a sticky tab in chrome with the Neogaf Live Thread addon running 24/7 so it doesn't matter for me where the thread actually is) no, the real problem is that if the thread is sent to die in the community tab then ONLY the usual posters will keep up with it. The random people that come in the thread every day asking 1-2 questions about the site and then never come back afterward will never find the thread in the community tab. There's people who are accusing the thread of being a circle jerk right now but it will be 10x worse if it's only the regulars who keep posting in it.

 

[The Llama]

I can only talk about the GB thread since this is the one of those I visit the most but the problem is not about the usual posters who will obviously follow the thread wherever it goes (heck... I keep the thread opened in a sticky tab in chrome with the Neogaf Live Thread addon running 24/7 so it doesn't matter for me where the thread actually is) no, the real problem is that if the thread is sent to die in the community tab then ONLY the usual posters will keep up with it. The random people that come in the thread every day asking 1-2 questions about the site and then never come back afterward will never find the thread in the community tab. There's people who are accusing the thread of being a circle jerk right now but it will be 10x worse if it's only the regulars who keep posting in it.

Surely the problem is more that we need to get more people to read the Community forum? I don't view it as "banishment." Really, its just a question of what the mods/admins vision of NeoGAF is. Do they want it to be a forum (the main forum, I should add; obviously not the Community section) dominated by megathreads and individual communities, or a forum with a lot of smaller discussions?

FWIW I'm a member of plenty of forums that have both of these systems, so I'm not inherently biased against any one system. It just seems smarter to try to end the megathreads taking over the Gaming forum because of how big and busy the forum is.

 

[Hasney]

Surely the problem is more that we need to get more people to read the Community forum? I don't view it as "banishment." Really, its just a question of what the mods/admins vision of NeoGAF is. Do they want it to be a forum (the main forum, I should add; obviously not the Community section) dominated by megathreads and individual communities, or a forum with a lot of smaller discussions?

FWIW I'm a member of plenty of forums that have both of these systems, so I'm not inherently biased against any one system. It just seems smarter to try to end the megathreads taking over the Gaming forum because of how big and busy the forum is.

Yup, I agree with that. Not only that, but if it's more consistent in how they're approached, people will go to the forums to find things more often. Things like the Comics monthly OT and the Steam monthly OT confuse things I think when all the other very general, non-news related threads are hidden away in community.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

Surely the problem is more that we need to get more people to read the Community forum? I don't view it as "banishment." Really, its just a question of what the mods/admins vision of NeoGAF is. Do they want it to be a forum (the main forum, I should add; obviously not the Community section) dominated by megathreads and individual communities, or a forum with a lot of smaller discussions?

FWIW I'm a member of plenty of forums that have both of these systems, so I'm not inherently biased against any one system. It just seems smarter to try to end the megathreads taking over the Gaming forum because of how big and busy the forum is.

Community definitely feels like the ghetto where threads go to die to me. It would be nice if stuff like LTTP/RTTP or "recommend me a game" or list threads went to community since it might actually inspire people to go there. If it doesn't, it at least removes those types of threads from Gaming Discussion which is a win in my book.

 

[Hasney]

Community definitely feels like the ghetto where threads go to die to me. It would be nice if stuff like LTTP/RTTP or "recommend me a game" or list threads went to community since it might actually inspire people to go there. If it doesn't, it at least removes those types of threads from Gaming Discussion which is a win in my book.

That would make sense if people are worried about clutter. I mean, the amount of "Just bought a Vita/Wii U!" threads. It would be pretty cool if there was a new console owner OT in community.

 

[The Llama]

Community definitely feels like the ghetto where threads go to die to me. It would be nice if stuff like LTTP/RTTP or "recommend me a game" or list threads went to community since it might actually inspire people to go there. If it doesn't, it at least removes those types of threads from Gaming Discussion which is a win in my book.

Don't get me wrong, right now, I agree with you completely. I think maybe there needs to be some encouragement to us users to check out both forums more often. And maybe moving more of these ever-present megathreads over there is the way to do it.

(or maybe the mods/admins completely hate this idea and I should just shut up )

 

[shinobi602]

This is a good idea.

Agreed there...

 

[CambriaRising]

Agreed there...

Is this like a spiteful thing for some people? Will all the OTs just be moved to gaming community now? Angry Joe, Final Bosman, etc?

 

[Hasney]

Is this like a spiteful thing for some people? Will all the OTs just be moved to gaming community now? Angry Joe, Final Bosman, etc?

Not for Giant Bomb, I think it's just for threads that constantly get bumped to the first page. Realistically, the community section was made for those types of threads, and OTs get moved over there after a certain amount of time.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

I would like 24/48 hours before so I can get hyped, check out users reviews from other territories and have a place to go for pre-release stuff but whatever.

it's crazy that OT's for actual games have such strict standards but there are a million threads about ubisoft/framerates etc etc.

it makes the front page of gaming side just a bunch of console war crap.

edit: oh yay top of page

 

[shinobi602]

Is this like a spiteful thing for some people? Will all the OTs just be moved to gaming community now? Angry Joe, Final Bosman, etc?

I don't have a particular problem against them, I'd just think they'd be treated like any other OT or megathread...game OTs are moved to the community side after a month, giving them a good amount of time for exposure. I think it should be the same for podcasts or gaming personalities, etc. Less clutter in gaming side is better.