Google "Gamergate Gawker" and read the article to get an introduction to it. The Guardian and Jezebel also have a good article on it.
#GAMERGATE: The Threadening [Read the OP] -- #StopGamerGate2014
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Google "Gamergate Gawker" and read the article to get an introduction to it. The Guardian and Jezebel also have a good article on it.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Feels good, man.
You won't be saying that when EviLore is no longer able to pay our salaries as a result of decreased ad revenue.
Feels good, man.
:lol first things I searched for. Sadly, there's no blurb as to why it's on the list
.Nothing. Child's Play just refused their charity donations.
Mowki Kowski
Member
Might as well fight for an activision sponsorship. This site could use some side banners and unskippable video ads.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
It's a scary thing but I feel like I'm currently also drifting a bit too far in one direction. Don't get me wrong, GG is tainted way beyond redemption. But I don't want to make this too easy to me. That's why I read the whole reddit thing, to at least read the other perspective and try to understand it. I didn't but I'll still try.
To just say "All non-mysogonist GGs guys are idiots who don't understand GG!" is making things too easy and also completly impossible to ever come to a solution. Thought a solution is probably out of the question already. And has been for quite some time.
Even if (just bare with me here) Zoe slept with hundreds of journalists to get top reviews for her game it doesn't even matter anymore, does it? Cause at this point GG can't be about that anymore.
Whatever GG actually stands for, no matter what we believe or what "they" believe, there is no way this can come to a reasonable solution anymore. If guys like Gerstman or fucking Jim Sterling are seen as "anti consumer" or "corrupt" or whatever, there can't be a solution anymore. I honestly have no idea how this possibly can end other than GG slowly dying down and people loosing interest in it.
There can't be an "Arafat-Rabin" handshake cause there are no "leaders". Gamergate doesn't have a website were they say what they actually want and I feel like nobody actually knows what they want including most GG. Maybe that needs to happen. But then what? Do websites honestly have to come out and say "We love gamers, but if you threaten somebody you're an asshole", is that it? Do they have to come out and say "Hey, we don't take money for our reviews, thanks"?
And then all would be well (let's continue the assumption that GG is about corruption)? Really?
So I guess the only thing we (as "anti GG" I guess, thought I don't like that label) can do is, well the opposite of black listing sites, right? I know we all don't use adblock, but...you know maybe actually don't use adblock. On some sites at least. I dunno. Talking like this already makes me feel too deeply involved with this mess, so I dunno. Just be nice to others I guess. Or if you don't want to, just don't say anything. Can't be that hard, can it?
I would argue that the term or group would just have to be clearly defined. If someones views align with that definition then they can consider themselves part of that group regardless of what the official group thinks or recognizies.
EDIT: Broadly speaking. I can't say I am a member of the New York Knicks because believes aren't the defining issue in that organization.
So is there a prominent feminist consensus against her? Who are the judges of who can identify themselves as feminists or not?
According to Wikipedia the definition of feminism is this:
Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, cultural, and social rights for women.[1][2] This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women.[3]
Feminism is such a loaded word one must be careful to not step in the no-true-Scotsman fallacy.
Steve Youngblood
Member
You know what cheers me up after a day mired in conversation about controversial video game social justice issues? Shadow of Mordor. The stealth mechanics are amazing!
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Feels good, man.
At this point it probably would have been easier to list all the sites you can visit. Jeezus.
I'd prefer that over the creepy "sexy anime video games" ads I'm getting.
ShockingAlberto
Member
At this point I kind of shuffle feminists for gamergate in to the same mental space I put scientists against climate change.
FF Seraphim
Member
Hey! Nothing better than stealth branding all the orcs!
From Gabe's Twitter
https://twitter.com/cwgabriel/status/522438053021749248
Then Jerry weighed in on the topic
I like his response.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
You quote the Wikipedia definition, so lets use the Wikipedia definition. It states it's a movement and ideology aimed to defending equality for women. So tell me how exactly Sommers is propagating that? The last time I paid her any attention she was effectively saying women should shutup because gaming is a boys' club and 'boys will be boys'.
Edit: Also if you take a gander at Sommer's wiki page it makes explicit mention that critics label her anti-feminist while making special mention that she herself considers her a feminist. No where does it list any feminist accolades or support from other feminists.
When can we expect Evilore's likeness as a helpful NPC?
Reddit is a hive of scum and villainy and rarely exercises any editorial control at all. Reddit's fine because things like /r/kotakuinaction exist there unmolested by Reddit staff. Reddit is constantly claiming it's a place of total freedom.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I don't really understand the point of this exercise. So, Christina Hoff Sommers and the three women in the HuffPo link? Let's just call them all feminists, even the one who doesn't identify as a feminist. OK, now what?
JesseEwiak
Member
KotakuinAction, their main subreddit is still up and exists there. So, they have a little hole where they can upvote false flags, assume bots that glomp on to any trending topic are actuallly paid for by Anti-GG people, and act like a 10 minute segment on HuffPo Live that will be forgotten by the end of the day is a big victory.
LiquidSword
Member
They created a blacklist about a month ago as well. It's pretty funny to read
http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2fcb16/good_times_people_heres_a_comprehensive_faq_about/
"Giant Bomb (mostly okay, be aware of Patrick Klepek)" lol
Edit: Neogaf is on there too
FF Seraphim
Member
What? They seriously don't want people to donate to Child's Play? That's some bullshit
chaobreaker
Member
I've been following this thread in large chunks but missed what got Boogie banned. What happened? IIRC this thread was on the verge of making him see that there's no real value in supporting the "good side" of GG. I'm looking back and see that he just doubled down on his support of the movement.
It's really depressing to see all this e-celebs argue in favor of GG or eat up its rhetoric even when they're aware of all the vile shit that happens under that banner. I can't believe TB is still arguing that the movement is still about "journalistic integrity" and BroteamPill thinks Sarkeesian and Quinn are making up the threats. I'm still not sure if I should swear off JonTron after he posted that comic.
Erik Kain too. I thought his contributions on Forbes' blogsite were pretty good.
It's really depressing to see all this e-celebs argue in favor of GG or eat up its rhetoric even when they're aware of all the vile shit that happens under that banner. I can't believe TB is still arguing that the movement is still about "journalistic integrity" and BroteamPill thinks Sarkeesian and Quinn are making up the threats. I'm still not sure if I should swear off JonTron after he posted that comic.
Erik Kain too. I thought his contributions on Forbes' blogsite were pretty good.
At least Gamergate serves by now as a litmus test for determining the character of a video game personalities and outlets.
TotalBiscuit and Erik Kain have definitively gone on my shitlist. Hopefully they'll repent in the future, but my view of those guys are pretty bad thanks to their self-centered, inconsiderate outputs as they are effectively legitimizing a hate group.
TotalBiscuit and Erik Kain have definitively gone on my shitlist. Hopefully they'll repent in the future, but my view of those guys are pretty bad thanks to their self-centered, inconsiderate outputs as they are effectively legitimizing a hate group.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Penny Arcade has wisely decided to stay completely out of it. I don't know how much Gabe has actually learned but I think he's at least learned when to keep his mouth shut
EDIT: Apparently Tycho wrote this just this morning:
They created a blacklist about a month ago as well. It's pretty funny to read
http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2fcb16/good_times_people_heres_a_comprehensive_faq_about/
"Giant Bomb (mostly okay, be aware of Patrick Klepek)" lol
Edit: Neogaf is on there too
LOL quote from that subreddit in regards to NeoGAF:
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
So another thing: I distinctly remember a picture being posted here (or on Twitter) saying something like "So you think gamergate has no effect?" and it shows some webtrafficing of, I think it was Kotaku and Polygon, with the graph pointing straight down (more or less)
And I at first I thought: "Wow, huh it actually has an effect".
But then again it was probably early September and we know how awesome summer is for videogames and subsequently videogame news,at least that's my assumption. So I'm trying to get some trafficing data of the last years, just to see if I'm correct with that assumption or not, but I don't know any services doing that for free. Cause looking at Alexa right now, it kinda doesn't seem like GG has such a big impact, if any at all.
And I at first I thought: "Wow, huh it actually has an effect".
But then again it was probably early September and we know how awesome summer is for videogames and subsequently videogame news,at least that's my assumption. So I'm trying to get some trafficing data of the last years, just to see if I'm correct with that assumption or not, but I don't know any services doing that for free. Cause looking at Alexa right now, it kinda doesn't seem like GG has such a big impact, if any at all.
By said litmus test - how would you label the character of outlets that are being "neutral" by not taking a side for whatever reason?
edit: For some odd reason, you remind me of an old member named Londa
/randomWait, it says there that Anna Anthropy is the one Patricia Hernandez supposedly gave positive press to -- I say supposedly because I see no links provided to this publicity -- while rooming together. Yet in this thread over the last few pages people kept repeatedly saying it was Christine Love.
So are those accusations totally misinformation? How much actually happened? Are there any links anywhere proving any of this in regards to Hernandez?
See my earlier post; Mike and Jerry both weighed in on this; it's Jerry's post for the day.
http://penny-arcade.com/news/post/2014/10/15/star-gourds
ShockingAlberto
Member
They created a blacklist about a month ago as well. It's pretty funny to read
http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2fcb16/good_times_people_heres_a_comprehensive_faq_about/
"Giant Bomb (mostly okay, be aware of Patrick Klepek)" lol
Edit: Neogaf is on there too
That parenthetical part is why I'm so disappointed in Giant Bomb for not coming out against Gamergate as a site and instead leaving it just to Patrick and Alex.
I've almost written to Jeff a hundred times saying "People who use your face as an avatar are saying some pretty horrific things, you should speak out against not just the death threats, but the culture being cultivated that allows it," but I feel like he'd just say this thing will pass like all the other times it happens.
Which, yeah, it will. But it will come back, like all the other times it has happened because people stay silent about it. These people take silence as approval and condemnation is clear and unambiguous.
If you're large enough to wield influence, use it.
It's difficult to determine those outlets and their motivation. Some are afraid for their employees' safety. I can understand their reluctance, but I wish some would take a stand nonetheless.
But certainly they should speak if they are able to as being silent also enabled a vacuum in which the bigots thrive while non-invited people are misled on the hate movement.
You can't be neutral on a moving train, etc.
There is nothing beyond that. It started as a curiosity because some users said they could not define themselves as feminists based on their actions , and I was wondering what actions they actually preformed which revoked their feminist status.
If we look at other examples like let's say Christianity. We have 40 000 different denominations where Christians disagree on various core principles of Christianity yet they all define themselves as Christians.
I just feel feminism is such a loaded word, and it's very hard to be the judge of who's what without stepping on the no-true-Scotsman fallacy.
chaobreaker
Member
By said litmus test - how would you label the character of outlets that are being "neutral" by not taking a side for whatever reason?
edit: For some odd reason, you remind me of an old member named Londa
I think you're confusing "not taking a side" with "legitimizing a hate campaign".
Personalities like TB and Erik Kain are doing essentially the latter.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Yeah, Kain was a sad one for me. I corresponded with him a bunch back in the day when he used to write for a politics blog I used to read, and really supported him when all that shit with Kuchera went down.
So many threats, so little action.
If people are receiving death threat about giving a speech about gaming/equality then backing down would only show that your words and ideology aren't worth it.
People shouldn't live in fear since fear will only prevent you from living your life.
Malala Yousafzai, even after a legitimate assassination attempt on her life, is still trying to promote her belief in multiple countries with a restricted culture that is more vile to women than gaming.
Even her country Pakistan didn't like that she won the Nobel prize...what a harsh reality this girl is trying to fight.
And with gamergate/stopGG issue, why are so many speakers are backing out from these threats?
Speak up and fight the threats, or you will just encourage more haters to keep harassing your works by sending in more threats to prevent you from bringing your concerns to the public.
Equal right is a special cause no?
If people are receiving death threat about giving a speech about gaming/equality then backing down would only show that your words and ideology aren't worth it.
People shouldn't live in fear since fear will only prevent you from living your life.
Malala Yousafzai, even after a legitimate assassination attempt on her life, is still trying to promote her belief in multiple countries with a restricted culture that is more vile to women than gaming.
Even her country Pakistan didn't like that she won the Nobel prize...what a harsh reality this girl is trying to fight.
And with gamergate/stopGG issue, why are so many speakers are backing out from these threats?
Speak up and fight the threats, or you will just encourage more haters to keep harassing your works by sending in more threats to prevent you from bringing your concerns to the public.
Equal right is a special cause no?
Over the past few years I have felt if Brad and Jeff had spoken about social issues more it could have reduced the amount of hate Patrick gets. I have often seen people criticise Patrick for destroying the site and pushing his agenda when the other members agree with him but say nothing.
plagiarize
Banned
Why is David Jaffe on the support list?
ShockingAlberto
Member
I give them the benefit of the doubt that they, for whatever reason, do not feel it to be "for the best" if they comment, but
When you look at places, even here on GAF, that say "I wish Giant Bomb would stop talking about #gamergate" in the really barebones way Giant Bomb does, you begin to feel like they know it would anger fans for them to take a stand.
LiquidSword
Member
They talk against it on yesderday's podcast and GG hates Giantbomb now. One of the highest threads on that subreddit today is "Cancelled my GB Sub over this weeks podcast."
I think this is more akin to someone with Gnostic beliefs calling themselves a Christian because they think the real Jesus is way cool. Nobody can stop them from applying that title to themselves, but their religious framework is significantly different from most other people who use that label because they believe "God" is an evil impostor, Jesus only pretended to be crucified, and the physical world is an illusion.
Or a less extreme example, Christian Science or Jehovah's Witnesses. Some of them may call themselves Christians but there are huge doctrinal differences between them and the rest of the Christian world.
Make sense? Sommers can identify as whatever she wants, but the ideas she espouses don't have much in common with most other people who also self-identify as feminists.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I haven't listened to this week's yet, but if true, it's good that they're taking a stand against the movement as a whole.
And in the same segment she is listed as an American feminist writer, individualist feminist, feminist philosopher and Jewish feminist.
It is not usual people of the same group argues on principles within the same group.
JesseEwiak
Member
Balloon Juice or Ordinary Gentlemen?
Either way, as somebody who has followed him for a while, Kain's a good guy but way too weather vane-y. He went from a libertarian-leaning to hardcore left, then drifted back toward centrist pox on both of your houses, before finally getting a better gig writing about games and ignoring politics all together.
But, yeah, his articles talking about how Gamergater's aren't horrible people remind me a lot of his early Balloon Juice articles - look, libertarians are just misunderstood. Oh sure, they don't think the Civil Rights Act should've been passed, but they've got their good qualities as well.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
While I admittedly haven't looked in-depth into Gies' review score to see exactly how he addresses the sexualization, theoretically, if the developers have a metacritic bonus or the like associated with the game's score, then they'd probably care.
Not that the practice isn't absurd (or that Bayo still has an amazing overall score regardless) but it exists.
But then we're getting into the subjective practice of sexualization and its role on games and how it affects enjoyment, and there's already a thread for that, I think.
There were articles by Hernandez discussing each of the two's projects. There are several links from earlier in the threads.
edit2: Eh.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Well, you'll probably be disappointed. They do talk about the harrassment but only for a few minutes and it's really not anything to get riled up about, which makes the reddit reactions all the more troubeling.
I'm not claiming that that is the reason or that it would have been otherwise if it didn't happen, but I can't blame Jeff for not saying something just weeks after his dad passed. Again, not saying that this is the reason why they didn't say something, but if it is I could 100% understand it.
Please, tell us more about how people should handle death threats.
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