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[Neoriceisgood]

If what you're getting at is that ignoring them puts a disproportional load on the victims of this abuse then I agree and that's why it seems like a bad choice. The problem is that trolling behavior seems very much to be reinforced by negative feedback, so confronting abusers without any real tangible way to punish their bad behavior only further encourages them. It's a shitty situation. I wonder how much of this problem could be resolved by twitter and other places on the web having better moderation.

I think discussing ways to moderate & fix this behavior is the correct thing to do, telling the victim how they should behave should be their choice.

I'm extremely curious about the truths & limits of the negative feedback thing btw.

I remember a few instances of getting bullied as a child where "ignoring it" literally just escalated the situation, it seems like one of those "cultural truths" that in my mind has never been statistically demonstrated to me.

Seriously if there's a reason Nintendo should remove access to Polygon it's really about that brain damaging graph
.

Seriously that Bayonetta 2 review is so clearly not even the beginning of a problem I'm laughing my ass off.
That would be my reaction to everything GG is death/rape threat weren't launched left and right.

I will never not laugh at that graph.


I honestly don't even like Polygon or Kotaku at all, it literally required something as outright vile as gamergate for me to actually side with those sides completely.

 

[Mael]

Hilariously that is reportedly happening right now with Bethesda not sending review copies of The Evil Within to people that gave Wolfenstein a bad review. And GamerGate? Protectors of ethics in game journalism? Not a peep.

Well they're the protectors of ethics, they just don't want ethics to be muddled by game journalism
I'm only half joking.

I will never not laugh at that graph.


I honestly don't even like Polygon or Kotaku at all, it literally required something as outright vile as gamergate for me to actually side with those sides completely.

I actually hate Polygon after last year and the Gies's incidents
Kuchera was literally a synonym for tool for me and the last I went to Kotaku was a decade ago I think .
the only bright spot I saw about Kotaku was jason's surprisingly great work (seriously I wasn't expecting that)
And now thanks to GG I think I'll have to put both sites on my rss feed.

 

[riotous]

Don't get what's so wrong about the Polygon graph.. that's an interesting way to look at the sales of a game series vs. the consoles it's exclusive to. Why is it so offensive?

Polygon literally makes me laugh at loud from time to time but that doesn't do it for me..

Because that's not how pie charts work.

The pie chart is working correctly; they are summing something that isn't as straightforward as your usual comparison. That doesn't make it inaccurate or useless. It's not really super useful on it's own, just interesting.. but a comparison of other game series in a similar way (remarking how many games each series represents) would be interesting.

 

[GamerJM]

Don't get what's so wrong about the Polygon graph.. that's an interesting way to look at the sales of a game series vs. the consoles it's exclusive to. Why is it so offensive?

Polygon literally makes me laugh at loud from time to time but that doesn't do it for me..

Because that's not how pie charts work.

 

[Maybesew]

Don't get what's so wrong about the Polygon graph.. that's an interesting way to look at the sales of a game series vs. the consoles it's exclusive to. Why is it so offensive?

Droz: All right, what's your major?
Phys. Ed. Major: Phys. Ed.
Droz: Phys. Ed? All right, stud, you're out of my room. Seriously, get out.

.

 

[Hemi-PoweredDrone]

This feels like a really messed up set of assumptions, for a topic as potent as death threats.

Yeah, I probably was a bit too dismisive with how I worded it, but I meant more scale wise. There's clearly a differnece between when something sounds like normal internet douchebaggery and a credible threat, and with the sheer number and amount of doxxing done towards Quinn and Sarkeesian, the death threats to them likely feel more impactful. I mean, there probably has been doxxing and such going towards him, but it's impossible to deny that a lot of the vitriol in Gamergate comes from mysoginystic feelings, so I feel less are going to be attacking him. There's also going to be a fair amount of slut shaming going towards Quinn. What's the old saying, the difference between a man and a woman having a lot of sex is that a key that opens a lot of locks is called a master key, a lock opened by a lot of keys is a shitty lock. Or some bullshit like that. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them don't really care about what Greyson may have done, as shitty as it sounds.

I find the bayo thing so hypocritical
if a company banned a reviewer from reviewing their products because they gave it a badlyrated review ( which polygon didn't it just wasn't a 9/10) there would be outcry:
corruption in the industry!

I actually can't wait for Totalbiscuit to see the Bayonetta thing, he may support the journalistic integrity ideals GG supposedly has, but developers blacklisting negative reviewers is something he has ranted against on many, many occasions, including recently with the whole Shadow of Mordor brand deal shenanigans. But sense his last tweet was just a link to a subreddit of GIFs of baby elephants, he might be too drugged to notice much for now.

I feel like A is the only reasonable option because B doesn't work without moderation and consequences, which don't really exist on most of the internet. I can see where ignoring them seems like giving up though. It's a shit situation.

That's sort of what I was getting at, there's only so much that we as gamers need to do, we need community leaders and developers to use their power to stop this shit. I mean, it can happen, look where we are. I can't really say I've seen too much bigotry, though maybe I've missed it, but it seems like strict moderation, partially helped by the wait period and email requirement to even make an account here, has done something right.

Don't get what's so wrong about the Polygon graph.. that's an interesting way to look at the sales of a game series vs. the consoles it's exclusive to. Why is it so offensive?

Pie charts aren't used for comparing two seperate numbers, it's for comparing things that are pieces of the same whole. I also question the scaling of the two numbers in the first place.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Don't get what's so wrong about the Polygon graph.. that's an interesting way to look at the sales of a game series vs. the consoles it's exclusive to. Why is it so offensive?

I would've gotten in trouble for making that graph even back in highschool, it shows a fundamental lack of understanding on how pie charts actually work.

 

[riotous]

.

Let me rephrase that:

I know exactly why you guys think it's "Wrong."

Now comment on what I had to say about it instead of acting like I didn't explain it.

Pie charts aren't used for comparing two seperate numbers, it's for comparing things that are pieces of the same whole. I also question the scaling of the two numbers in the first place.

Instead of pointing out the obvious I was hoping you guys would respond to how I described it as interesting (since clearly I understand the 2 separate numbers being compared.)

They are combining sales of a game series and sales of a video game console. That is the sum; it isn't inaccurate and it's a bit abnormal but it still shows an interesting piece of data. A pie chart just gives it a visual.

 

[Hemi-PoweredDrone]

Let me rephrase that:

I know exactly why you guys think it's "Wrong."

Now comment on what I had to say about it instead of acting like I didn't explain it.

That's why we think that graph is garbage, because it's wrong.

What's not to understand?

 

[plagiarize]

Don't get what's so wrong about the Polygon graph.. that's an interesting way to look at the sales of a game series vs. the consoles it's exclusive to. Why is it so offensive?

Polygon literally makes me laugh at loud from time to time but that doesn't do it for me..



The pie chart is working correctly; they are summing something that isn't as straightforward as your usual comparison. That doesn't make it inaccurate or useless. It's not really super useful on it's own, just interesting.. but a comparison of other game series in a similar way (remarking how many games each series represents) would be interesting.

Pie charts have to add up to a whole pie. You can't take a slice from one pie and slam it into a completely different pie. So like, you can do a pie chart of who has what political opinions. You can even do a pie chart of total Mario Kart sales and to show which one sold the most.

You can't stick games sales in with console sales. It doesn't mean anything at all.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Let me rephrase that:

I know exactly why you guys think it's "Wrong."

Now comment on what I had to say about it instead of acting like I didn't explain it.

I have no idea what you want.

If you know why it's wrong, what's there to discuss?

 

[BrittonPeele]

Hilariously that is reportedly happening right now with Bethesda not sending review copies of The Evil Within to people that gave Wolfenstein a bad review. And GamerGate? Protectors of ethics in game journalism? Not a peep.

I honestly don't know what logic went into Bethesda's process for choosing who got review copies of The Evil Within (I got one for The Dallas Morning News, and wrote about it here), but I don't think it was because of Wolfenstein reviews. For one thing, while I wrote about Wolfenstein favorably, I'm not on Metacritic (for Dallas Morning News reviews, anyway. I don't attach a score to them), so a review score argument doesn't hold up too much. For another thing, GameSpot didn't get a review copy of The Evil Within, but they gave Wolfenstein an 8/10.

Which isn't to say something else shady isn't going on (again, I have no idea what Bethesda PR's thought process was), but I don't think Wolfenstein review scores were the deciding factor.

But yeah, the whole idea of the Bayonetta 2 campaign is ridiculous and goes against the journalistic integrity GG people say they're fighting for. I'll be happy if it results in some more Bayonetta 2 sales, because that game is great, but the thinking beyond this particular "operation" would honestly do so much more harm to game reviews than good.

 

[Hemi-PoweredDrone]

They are combining sales of a game series and sales of a video game console. That is the sum; it isn't inaccurate and it's a bit abnormal but it still shows an interesting piece of data. A pie chart just gives it a visual.

They're visualizing it wrong. That's it. You can't say it's a piece of data because in that format it shows nothing of value.

 

[plagiarize]

That's sort of what I was getting at, there's only so much that we as gamers need to do, we need community leaders and developers to use their power to stop this shit. I mean, it can happen, look where we are. I can't really say I've seen too much bigotry, though maybe I've missed it, but it seems like strict moderation, partially helped by the wait period and email requirement to even make an account here, has done something right.

As I've said time and again when people ask what they're supposed to do, I think the we don't need to do much to have a big impact. Criticize bigotry when you see it (or expose it when it's pretending to be something else), and if what the person has does is actually against the terms of that website/service/whatever report it appropriately.

 

[riotous]

Pie charts have to add up to a whole pie. You can't take a slice from one pie and slam it into a completely different pie. So like, you can do a pie chart of who has what political opinions. You can even do a pie chart of total Mario Kart sales and to show which one sold the most.

You can't stick games sales in with console sales. It doesn't mean anything at all.

Yes you can; they did. And it has a meaning.

The "whole pie" is the total sales of the products represented on the chart. Everything on the chart is a product sold at stores. You can look at data that way and it has a meaning; it's just not as readily apparent.

I have no idea what you want.

If you know why it's wrong, what's there to discuss?

Because it's not "wrong."

I do all kinds of statistical analysis for a living by the way.. most software developers in the enterprise software space do. Charting, reporting, business intelligence, etc.

There's a lot of ways of looking at data; the meaning isn't always readily apparent.

Sometimes it's completely useless.

This one just seems semi-interesting.. not useless or all that useful.

It's an interesting way of comparing a game series sales vs. the hardware it's tied to. Adding more data to it would make it more useful (# of titles, # of systems.)

Maybe Polygon used it to make a stupid point, or misrepresented what it "means," but it isn't completely lacking in meaning. It's a compilation of product sales from one company, with a grouping on the products being compared logically around the type of product they have. Anyone reading the chart would know or needs to know the relationship between those games and the console hardware and they could get "something" out of the visual. Almost useless without other game series being compared to their respective hardware however.

Just because someone does something doesn't make it right.

And if you really do work with statistical analysis and see this having value, please tell us how this information is at all useful and not a misunderstanding of how graphs work.

Already casually explained it more than once.. right in my first post.

It's a representation of a game series sales vs. the hardware it was available on. A sort of macro way of looking at attach rate. You can read above for more explanation.

edit: Anyways.. TOTAL derail so I'll drop it.. lol..

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

Wow there really is a GAF defense force for everything.

 

[Maybesew]

Let me rephrase that:

I know exactly why you guys think it's "Wrong."

Now comment on what I had to say about it instead of acting like I didn't explain it.

There's no need for quotes around it. The graph is pure wrong. As someone who does analytics and visualizations for a living, the graph is laughable that any business would publish it on a professional web site. It's on par with Fox News showing Obama approval rates without the scale on the axis.

 

[Hemi-PoweredDrone]

Yes you can; they did. And it has a meaning.

The "whole pie" is the total sales of the products represented on the chart. Everything on the chart is a product sold at stores. You can look at data that way and it has a meaning; it's just not as readily apparent.




Because it's not "wrong."

I do all kinds of statistical analysis for a living by the way.. most software developers in the enterprise software space do. Charting, reporting, business intelligence, etc.

There's a lot of ways of looking at data; the meaning isn't always readily apparent.

Sometimes it's completely useless.

This one just seems semi-interesting.. not useless or all that useful.

It's an interesting way of comparing a game series sales vs. the hardware it's tied to. Adding more data to it would make it more useful (# of titles, # of systems.)

Just because someone does something doesn't make it right.


And if you really do work with statistical analysis and see this having value, please tell us how this information is at all useful and not a misunderstanding of how graphs work.

 

[JC Sera]

I actually can't wait for Totalbiscuit to see the Bayonetta thing, he may support the journalistic integrity ideals GG supposedly has, but developers blacklisting negative reviewers is something he has ranted against on many, many occasions, including recently with the whole Shadow of Mordor brand deal shenanigans. But sense his last tweet was just a link to a subreddit of GIFs of baby elephants, he might be too drugged to notice much for now.

Jim Sterling has already laid out the truth

 

[freddy]

I think we need an explanation of what a pie is before explaining a pie graph.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Don't get what's so wrong about the Polygon graph.. that's an interesting way to look at the sales of a game series vs. the consoles it's exclusive to. Why is it so offensive?

Polygon literally makes me laugh at loud from time to time but that doesn't do it for me..



The pie chart is working correctly; they are summing something that isn't as straightforward as your usual comparison. That doesn't make it inaccurate or useless. It's not really super useful on it's own, just interesting.. but a comparison of other game series in a similar way (remarking how many games each series represents) would be interesting.

In a pie chart the categories have to have a direct relationship with each other. If one piece grows, the others have to shrink to make room. In the Polygon example, Mario Kart sales going up or down would have no direct effect of console sales.

In this situation, a bar graph would have been the correct way of showing the data. It still shows the relative size difference without implying that the data had a direct relationship.

 

[saveweyard]

So gamergate...

You want to pressure publishers to not give review copies to outlets that reviewed their game poorly?

The hypocrisy and irony of this...its just too much to handle.

Also, how would a GG supporter react knowing Leigh Alexander finds the series empowering? http://leighalexander.net/bayonetta-two/

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Jim Sterling has already laid out the truth

The replies, holy shit. These people are fucking delusional. They honestly can't see that there is nothing unethical about someone saying things you don't agree with.

 

[Lime]

The New York Times are looking for female game developers to talk about harassment. I'm glad that culture- and industry-issues are going to get more exposure.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The only thing that's weird about the Gies review is that I don't think he's sincere about his belief that Bayonetta 2's sexuality bothers him enough to ruin the game since I think he merely didn't like it, anyway, based on my observations of his opinions on other things (the Vanquish/God Hand conspiracy being exhibit A in this) and latched on to this thing in particular.

But that's merely an observation and not a conclusion and Gies is more than entitled to his opinion on anything.

 

[Corpekata]

The replies, holy shit. These people are fucking delusional. They honestly can't see that there is nothing unethical about someone saying things you don't agree with.

This Dark Knight guys is a pretty good picture of the bizarre average GGer. This strange entitlement that every game review on the planet needs to conform to his standards. Like there aren't a hundred sites out there for it. If you don't like liberal politics in your game reviews and you're still reading Polygon, you're just kind of a dumb person at this point.

It was also part of the Alexander outrage. I don't need this on my gaming sites! Okay. Gamasutra isn't even aimed at you. It's aimed at people in the business (which is why the article is talking about how you don't need Gamers to be your audience). Why do these sites all need to be uniform, exactly?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Jim Sterling has already laid out the truth

Konami once blocked me because Death Jr. DS froze on the first level consistently over every DS I tried it on and I wrote the review with an N/A for the score expressing this.

Their response was to blacklist me.

Though, that's how I ended up meeting my Konami contact because one dude was like "Man this is fucked up."

Publishers blocking for reviews is the real gamergate, but none of them will ever fight to fix that.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

So gamergate...

You want to pressure publishers to not give review copies to outlets that reviewed their game poorly?

So Gamergate is now literally encouraging publishers to not hand out review copies to publications that gave them unfavourable reviews. Somewhere Konami is screaming in agony cause they haven't thought of that earlier.

 

[Lalalandia]

The New York Times are looking for female game developers to talk about harassment. I'm glad that culture- and industry-issues are going to get more exposure.

I can't wait to hear about how the New York Times is 'unethical' and has 'poor journalistic standards' if they don't explain how GG is not responsible for all the threats and harassment. I wonder if the NYT is going to allow developers to respond anonymously? I mean they may think not publishing contact info is good enough but I'm afraid any person who is featured is going to be doxxed on 8chan pretty shortly after.

 

[Hemi-PoweredDrone]

The only thing that's weird about the Gies review is that I don't think he's sincere about his belief that Bayonetta 2's sexuality bothers him enough to ruin the game since I think he merely didn't like it, anyway, based on my observations of his opinions on other things (the Vanquish/God Hand conspiracy being exhibit A in this) and latched on to this thing in particular.

But that's merely an observation and not a conclusion and Gies is more than entitled to his opinion on anything.

I feel like I've noticed that about more than a few Polygon reviews, but I don't follow them enough to really know how much this happens, call out specific events, or know if it's all Gies.

Also, how would a GG supporter react knowing Leigh Alexander finds the series empowering? http://leighalexander.net/bayonetta-two/

I don't think misogynist know how to understand sex positive feminism. It goes against all their preconceived notions.

 

[Jim Sterling]

The replies, holy shit. These people are fucking delusional. They honestly can't see that there is nothing unethical about someone saying things you don't agree with.

I've only caught a few defenses for it online (not reading replies is saving my sanity) and really, just wow. Makes me wonder what my past few years of work have been about if people who allegedly follow what I do are that willing to trade it all in to make a tantrum-fueled point about opinions they can't handle.

Yet still some folks feel I stabbed them in the back. They support causes that fly in the face of everything I've stood for, and I'm the one who turned my back on their ideals. I can't even begin to understand the sheer leaps in logic that require these beliefs and goals to line up coherently.

 

[libregkd]

The replies, holy shit. These people are fucking delusional. They honestly can't see that there is nothing unethical about someone saying things you don't agree with.

I am certainly amused that one person is saying if Polygon gave Bayonetta an 8 or 7 they wouldn't care. It's the fact the reviewer gave it a 3 is why the review is bullshit.

lol

 

[partyphone]

This Dark Knight guys is a pretty good picture of the bizarre average GGer. This strange entitlement that every game review on the planet needs to conform to his standards. Like there aren't a hundred sites out there for it. If you don't like liberal politics in your game reviews and you're still reading Polygon, you're just kind of a dumb person at this point.

It was also part of the Alexander outrage. I don't need this on my gaming sites! Okay. Gamasutra isn't even aimed at you. It's aimed at people in the business (which is why the article is talking about how you don't need Gamers to be your audience). Why do these sites all need to be uniform, exactly?

look at regular conservative media and politics. it's a perpetual outrage machine. these people see the status quo changing and they're ANGRY and they want everyone to know about it. and when they're not angry they're pining for the Good Ol' Days when women and blacks knew their place and a man could slap his wife for drying out the roast.

even the hypocrisy takes similar forms. the people who opine on the weakness of a liberal's knees are the ones who can't tolerate someone saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Yet still some folks feel I stabbed them in the back. They support causes that fly in the face of everything I've stood for, and I'm the one who turned my back on their ideals. I can't even begin to understand the sheer leaps in logic that require these beliefs and goals to line up coherently.

To be fair though, you DID give Arkham City an 8.5

 

[Jim Sterling]

To be fair though, you DID give Arkham City an 8.5

It is the least ethical of scores. I have begun tendering my resignation to Destructoid for this transgression.

 

[Hemi-PoweredDrone]

I've only caught a few defenses for it online (not reading replies is saving my sanity) and really, just wow. Makes me wonder what my past few years of work have been about if people who allegedly follow what I do are that willing to trade it all in to make a tantrum-fueled point about opinions they can't handle.

Yet still some folks feel I stabbed them in the back. They support causes that fly in the face of everything I've stood for, and I'm the one who turned my back on their ideals. I can't even begin to understand the sheer leaps in logic that require these beliefs and goals to line up coherently.

Anyone that can't see that Bayo's sexiness is at least a little silly, and that some people won't like that, isn't worth your time. All that "But I don't want to see it in reviews because it doesn't matter to me! Cater to me reviewers!" just don't understand what a reviewer does.

I mean, personally I like playing sexy female characters, but that's one of quite a few parts of some major and extremely confusing introspection, so I doubt that I'm anywhere close to the average person in that regard. Difference is is that I know that, it seems that these people can't. And this all goes back to the root of this whole Gamergate thing, which seems to really be keeping games as something exclusive and keeping out all the icky girls because feminism.

 

[grumble]

Yes you can; they did. And it has a meaning.

The "whole pie" is the total sales of the products represented on the chart. Everything on the chart is a product sold at stores. You can look at data that way and it has a meaning; it's just not as readily apparent.




Because it's not "wrong."

I do all kinds of statistical analysis for a living by the way.. most software developers in the enterprise software space do. Charting, reporting, business intelligence, etc.

There's a lot of ways of looking at data; the meaning isn't always readily apparent.

Sometimes it's completely useless.

This one just seems semi-interesting.. not useless or all that useful.

It's an interesting way of comparing a game series sales vs. the hardware it's tied to. Adding more data to it would make it more useful (# of titles, # of systems.)

Maybe Polygon used it to make a stupid point, or misrepresented what it "means," but it isn't completely lacking in meaning. It's a compilation of product sales from one company, with a grouping on the products being compared logically around the type of product they have. Anyone reading the chart would know or needs to know the relationship between those games and the console hardware and they could get "something" out of the visual. Almost useless without other game series being compared to their respective hardware however.



Already casually explained it more than once.. right in my first post.

It's a representation of a game series sales vs. the hardware it was available on. A sort of macro way of looking at attach rate. You can read above for more explanation.

edit: Anyways.. TOTAL derail so I'll drop it.. lol..

I am surprised that you do data visualization as a professional considering how foolish that comment was. It's very much an improper chart to use to show this data. A clustered column chart would be a trillion times better. Hell, even plotting it out on an x and y axis with consoles and games on the axes would be better. This is just junk that doesn't convey any meaning.

 

[kick51]

I'm imagining Miyamoto reading fan mail. He opens up a letter and it says "Help Miyamoto! These SJWs at Polygon are trying to take away my Bayonetta!" And then a single tear rolls down his face

"hmm, these people seem to have something against sexy japanese women"

 

[Brakke]

The only thing that's weird about the Gies review is that I don't think he's sincere about his belief that Bayonetta 2's sexuality bothers him enough to ruin the game since I think he merely didn't like it, anyway, based on my observations of his opinions on other things (the Vanquish/God Hand conspiracy being exhibit A in this) and latched on to this thing in particular.

But that's merely an observation and not a conclusion and Gies is more than entitled to his opinion on anything.

Well yeah, sure, he doesn't sincerely believe that the sexuality *ruins* the game. That's why he game it a 7.5.

"it causes an otherwise great game to require a much bigger mental compromise to enjoy" hardly implies "ruined".

 

[Mael]

Yes you can; they did. And it has a meaning.

The "whole pie" is the total sales of the products represented on the chart. Everything on the chart is a product sold at stores. You can look at data that way and it has a meaning; it's just not as readily apparent.

No in that case the whole would represent :
Consoles sold by Nintendo + Unit of games with Mario Kart in the title sold.
It's unrelated.
It's like making a pie chart where there's 2 data :
- Number of times profanaty is said in Django Unchained
- Unit of Dvd sales of Django Unchained in Germany

It makes no bloody sense.
I would have been fired on the spot if that's the kind of shoddy stuffs I did at work.

 

[sasliquid]

I've only caught a few defenses for it online (not reading replies is saving my sanity) and really, just wow. Makes me wonder what my past few years of work have been about if people who allegedly follow what I do are that willing to trade it all in to make a tantrum-fueled point about opinions they can't handle.

Yet still some folks feel I stabbed them in the back. They support causes that fly in the face of everything I've stood for, and I'm the one who turned my back on their ideals. I can't even begin to understand the sheer leaps in logic that require these beliefs and goals to line up coherently.

Thank god for you Jim. I might not agree with you all the time but you're a force for good in the grand scheme of things.

But yeah this Bayonetta thing is just the polar opposite of what gamergate is meant to be about. Sadly it's just a sign of the immaturity still prevalent around gaming.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

But yeah this Bayonetta thing is just the polar opposite of what gamergate is meant to be about. Sadly it's just a sign of the immaturity still prevalent around gaming.

Though it is a perfect representation of what it's actually about if you think about it.

 

[Wazzy]

Yes you can; they did. And it has a meaning.

The "whole pie" is the total sales of the products represented on the chart. Everything on the chart is a product sold at stores. You can look at data that way and it has a meaning; it's just not as readily apparent.




Because it's not "wrong."

I do all kinds of statistical analysis for a living by the way.. most software developers in the enterprise software space do. Charting, reporting, business intelligence, etc.

There's a lot of ways of looking at data; the meaning isn't always readily apparent.

Sometimes it's completely useless.

This one just seems semi-interesting.. not useless or all that useful.

It's an interesting way of comparing a game series sales vs. the hardware it's tied to. Adding more data to it would make it more useful (# of titles, # of systems.)

Maybe Polygon used it to make a stupid point, or misrepresented what it "means," but it isn't completely lacking in meaning. It's a compilation of product sales from one company, with a grouping on the products being compared logically around the type of product they have. Anyone reading the chart would know or needs to know the relationship between those games and the console hardware and they could get "something" out of the visual. Almost useless without other game series being compared to their respective hardware however.



Already casually explained it more than once.. right in my first post.

It's a representation of a game series sales vs. the hardware it was available on. A sort of macro way of looking at attach rate. You can read above for more explanation.

edit: Anyways.. TOTAL derail so I'll drop it.. lol..

I'm not sure how you honestly think that is a well done or even acceptable pie chart. There's no clear meaning represented and it's not even properly organized.

A proper pie chart would have a direct relationship and clear meaning. Example, You write the population of races in Canada and then organize the chart to represent the percentage of each race.

 

[sasliquid]

Though it is a perfect representation of what it's actually about if you think about it.

Yeah let me rephrase it. It's the opposite of what gamergate supporters claim to be about.

 

[riotous]

I am surprised that you do data visualization as a professional considering how foolish that comment was. It's very much an improper chart to use to show this data. A clustered column chart would be a trillion times better. Hell, even plotting it out on an x and y axis with consoles and games on the axes would be better. This is just junk that doesn't convey any meaning.

Whatever; I've been asked to visual data in way more awkward ways. I know exactly what you guys are saying and it REALLLLY doesn't need explained any more. Hard to drop with people calling me a "fool" left and right and ignoring that I am not asking anyone to explain it to me, and I indicated I do this for a living so you guys can stop (you can call me bad at my job but I know what a PIE is.. it's like a pizza right?).

If someone wants to see 1:4 as 1/5 visually I'm not going to argue that it isn't the precise purpose of a pie chart. It still gets across attach ratio in the same way any other visual representation would. For every 1 of this one thing you have 4 of this other.

I'm simply saying it's not anywhere near as bad as you guys are making it out to be; it's an interesting way to show attach ratio if you let go of the exacting purpose of a chart type. I'd rather just look at numbers myself, but those that want a visualization can in fact choose how they see relationships and correlations and it isn't anywhere near as "black and white, this is the right way this is the wrong way" as you all want it to be.

But now you can all mock me not just Polygon, so I've done you all a favor!

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Well yeah, sure, he doesn't sincerely believe that the sexuality *ruins* the game. That's why he game it a 7.5.

"it causes an otherwise great game to require a much bigger mental compromise to enjoy" hardly implies "ruined".

This isn't really a strong enough belief for me to argue about it, but I feel like you placed way more emphasis on my word choice as incredibly deliberate than I did.

 

[antigoon]

Thank God for Jim Sterling.

 

[anaron]

I love the amount of coverage this is getting from completely non-gaming related outlets. Maureen Ryan's piece is fantastic

 

[More_Badass]

I love the amount of coverage this is getting from completely non-gaming related outlets. Maureen Ryan's piece is fantastic

Have the link? Not sure if I read that one already

 

[riotous]

I love the amount of coverage this is getting from completely non-gaming related outlets. Maureen Ryan's piece is fantastic

I fear being asked about this at work as my boss know I play games; I really don't want to be asked to explain all of this lol.