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[marrec]

I don't know if you are, but if you've lumped yourself in with the GG group then you're associated with a misogynistic group. I believe this is what he was saying.

And that's not just because there are a few bad apples in the larger group.

GG's goals, their stated goals, include silencing specific women with progressive voices like Anita Sarkeesian and Leigh Alexander. Not for any other reason than because they disagree with what those women are saying.

There other stated goals of "ethics" and "unbiased" journalism are deeply rooted in attacking the same targets that have always been in the crosshairs of misogynists and sexists like Zoe Quinn and Steve Gaynor and John Walker.

Make no mistake, if you associate with GG then you are actively driving out women and progressive voices from video games.

 

[atomsk]

Which is a real bummer, because GG has distracted places like GAF from calling out and discussing *actual* issues in games media.

I have to wonder where all the GG people were 7 months ago when Tim Seppala was regurgitating PR fluff pieces on Engadget about "the power of the cloud" and the "silky-smooth" framerate of Titanfall, and now he's posting snarky statuses about "ethics" like he's above reproach.

You don't have to dig very deep to see IGN saying they can't tell the difference between 1080p vs 720p, or Kyle Orland saying "don't read into" PS4 launch sales... the list goes on, Gies, Kuchera, etc.

And yet what is GG actually focusing on?

For fucks sake.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

And that's not just because there are a few bad apples in the larger group.

Exactly. Like I said in a previous post GG is a barrel full of rotten apples that they try to sell as "fresh" with a new coat of paint.

 

[FlyinJ]

Some people are just too stubborn to see that the movement has not brought a single significant ethics breach to light or enacted any positive change beyond the Escapist slightly revamping their ethics policy, which has seemed to work wonders for that site (/s)

Hey, they also uncovered that 3 years ago someone on a site said that people should buy their roommate's game.

 

[marrec]

I have to wonder where all the GG people were 7 months ago when Tim Seppala was regurgitating PR fluff pieces on Engadget about "the power of the cloud" and the "silky-smooth" framerate of Titanfall, and now he's posting snarky statuses about "ethics" like he's above reproach.

You don't have to dig very deep to see IGN saying they can't tell the difference between 1080p vs 720p, or Kyle Orland saying "don't read into" PS4 launch sales... the list goes on, Gies, Kuchera, etc.

And yet what is GG actually focusing on?

For fucks sake.

Lets not mince words:

GamerGate's leaders actively and specifically hate vocal women. They're getting direction from real and provable misogynists. So of course they focus on people like Anita and Zoe and Hernandez and Alexander and by extension Phil Fish and John Walker and Jim Sterling.

 

[fantomena]

My opinions about this whole case:

Also when it coems to the Zoe Quinn stuff. The amount of shit and disgusting things, rapoe threats, death threats etc. that came towards her are disgusting. What she did is fo course horrible to do, but that does not mean she deserved it. And form what Ive read the men she slept with did not receive the same amount of shit like she did. But Ive not read too much up on this.

The amount of disgusting stuff Ive read from people who supports this GamerGate thing is terifying.

I might not agree with everything Anita says, but the amount of harrasment agaisnt women going on in the industry is disgusting and frightening.

Im dissapointing in my culture. Tons on gamers are so conservative that as soon as somebody speaks up against something people love the harassments and threats are coming.

Ive seen a bit of Anitas videos. They are very interesting. I do not agree with everything she says (and Im a feminist). What she has been saying has started a discussion I feel it's time we have.

There are so many examples of women in the games industry who are being threated like Anita (happily not that muc). If a woman gives GTA a low score, expresses ehre opinion on what she want to be changed in a game the harassment starts.

 

[L Thammy]

The confederate flag example is even better than the Swastika one because at some point the Swastika was just a common symbol dating back as long as civilisation in the Indus Valley.

But the confederate flag has always (Arguably, I don't really want to start this argument with Americans though, Aus has shitty racism problems aplenty thanks) been associated with a fight to maintain slavery. It's been coopted as a kind of southern pride thing but it started off and will always be associated with its terrible roots.

Gamergate wasn't coopted by its awful elements. The naive and misguided attempted to coopt it because of what they thought it was about (Northern Agress- I mean Journalistic Ethics) and vehemently deny any association with its obvious terrible origins, as well as those that fly the same tagflag and perpetuate the terrible elements.

If Gamergate had actually managed to totally weed out its shitty origins and done some good for journalism in this industry, this debate would be way less serious. The fact is though, that they haven't.

Comparing Gamergate to Confederate America is overselling them. The confederates didn't just support slavery because they were racist. Technological developments at the time led to a great business opportunity, and the cheapest way to capitalize on that was increased slavery. They weren't just fighting for racism, they were fighting to maintain that wealth, to prevent them from real economic losses.

If Gamergates's enemies have their way, what do they really lose? Is Zoe going to take away their shootbang games? No, we've seen that there's a market for that, that's not going to go away. Is Anita going to take away their cookie cutter male protagonists? No, women aren't going to replace men completely.

What is the real effect that Gamergate wants to make in the world? I don't think there really is one. I don't think they have a win condition. I honestly think they will honestly keep trying to shout women as long whenever they talk.

 

[plagiarize]

Comparing Gamergate to Confederate America is overselling them. The confederates didn't just support slavery because they were racist. Technological developments at the time led to a great business opportunity, and the cheapest way to capitalize on that was increased slavery. They weren't just fighting for racism, they were fighting to maintain that wealth, to prevent them from real economic losses.

If Gamergates's enemies have their way, what do they really lose? Is Zoe going to take away their shootbang games? No, we've seen that there's a market for that, that's not going to go away. Is Anita going to take away their cookie cutter male protagonists? No, women aren't going to replace men completely.

What is the real effect that Gamergate wants to make in the world? I don't think there really is one. I don't think they have a win condition. I honestly think they will honestly keep trying to shout women as long whenever they talk.

They might lose all the close ups of Bayonetta's crotch in Bayonetta 2, but I think we can all be handle a change like that, like we can all handle reprints of Tom Sawyer without hateful racist slurs in them.

 

[BatDan]

It's possible to fight corruption in journalism (which is real, stuff like publishers threatening to remove ad revenue unless they get high review scores, or "journalists" that are nothing more than hype machines), but you do it in a different way. Actually target the corruption, don't subscribe to GamerGate's ideals and only target women. Only targeting women makes it obvious what the group really wants.

It is possible to be against corruption without saying you're part of GamerGate. I don't get why people seem to think the two are inseparable.

 

[Shake Appeal]

If Gamergate is really worried about the ethics, why does it keep focusing on Quinn and Sarkeesian, small-time journalists, female journalists, 'SJW people' and indie game coverage in general, when all the really, really, really murky stuff is controlled the big players of the industry? Instead of going for the roots of the well-oiled hype machine we see bullying campaigns targeted at lone writers. It's totally nonsensical.

Sadly, it is not nonsensical. There are reasons why they focus on "small-time," female journalists. There are reasons why individual, named women are the targets. There are reasons why Anita Sarkeesian gets rape and death threats and Geoff Keighley doesn't.

 

[Lalalandia]

It is possible to be against corruption without saying you're part of GamerGate. I don't get why people seem to think the two are inseparable.

It's identity politics GG is now as inseparable from some of these folks as the label 'gamer' is. This is why they cry 'betrayal' at those like Jim Sterling who have a history of discussing ethics and consumer advocacy. I sorely hope this cycle can be broken but it seems unlikely at this point, the best I can hope for is for these folks to be asked about it IRL by folks outside of gaming. I'm hoping that trying to explain some of the muddled thinking that's been displayed here out loud will trigger an epiphany.

 

[canedaddy]

Sick, frothing-at-the-mouth misogyny isn't exclusive to any segment of society based on their hobbies or political views. For example, there's no shortage of murder/rape threats/jokes from demented creeps directed at both Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin. I bet some of the people appalled at #gamergate have been totally cool with that stuff when it's directed at someone they don't like.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Sick, frothing-at-the-mouth misogyny isn't exclusive to any segment of society based on their hobbies or political views.

Who said that it was?

 

[marrec]

Sick, frothing-at-the-mouth misogyny isn't exclusive to any segment of society based on their hobbies or political views. For example, there's no shortage of murder/rape threats/jokes from demented creeps directed at both Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin. I bet some of the people appalled at #gamergate have been totally cool with that stuff when it's directed at someone they don't like.

That sure is an opinion.

 

[The Technomancer]

Sick, frothing-at-the-mouth misogyny isn't exclusive to any segment of society based on their hobbies or political views. For example, there's no shortage of murder/rape threats/jokes from demented creeps directed at both Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin. I bet some of the people appalled at #gamergate have been totally cool with that stuff when it's directed at someone they don't like.

...no, no I can't say I ever have

That might just be you

 

[Lalalandia]

Sick, frothing-at-the-mouth misogyny isn't exclusive to any segment of society based on their hobbies or political views. For example, there's no shortage of murder/rape threats/jokes from demented creeps directed at both Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin. I bet some of the people appalled at #gamergate have been totally cool with that stuff when it's directed at someone they don't like.

Wow that straw man you set up sure is a douche, fortunately no I have never seen that kind of 'humour' as anything but shitty personal attacks. One of the things that continues to highlight the sexism in Irish politics is the constant focus on how 'good' female politicians look.

 

[Vlade]

Sick, frothing-at-the-mouth misogyny isn't exclusive to any segment of society based on their hobbies or political views. For example, there's no shortage of murder/rape threats/jokes from demented creeps directed at both Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin. I bet some of the people appalled at #gamergate have been totally cool with that stuff when it's directed at someone they don't like.

I think the point here is that GG is actively attacking people right now, and those who are appalled absolutely should be. And those who aren't are struggling to explain either that they didn't do it so why should they care, or struggling to point at other hypocrisies as if they should matter now.

 

[partyphone]

yeah it's kind of suspicious that you guys are focusing so much on misogyny in video games in this video game focused forum. what's up with that?

F O L L O W T H E M O N E Y

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I bet some of the people appalled at #gamergate have been totally cool with that stuff when it's directed at someone they don't like.

Uh, what? There's a pretty clear consensus here that the harassment of anyone is wrong, whether we agree with the target or not.

 

[L Thammy]

Come on guys, doesn't everyone whack it to snuff films? That's no reason to pick on me.

 

[SwissLion]

yeah it's kind of suspicious that you guys are focusing so much on misogyny in video games in this video game focused forum. what's up with that?

F O L L O W T H E M O N E Y

There really just needs to be an embeddable button with a number of Jeff Gerstmann's "Follow the Money" whispers from the AC:U section of last week's Bombcast.

 

[udivision]

Uh, what? There's a pretty clear consensus here that the harassment of anyone is wrong, whether we agree with the target or not.

I've seen enough political discoruse to be wary of that... to be honest, I don't think people are as aware of abuse when the target is someone that flat out don't like (for whatever reason). That doesn't justify or excuse gamergate, but rather further allows these nutjobs to not realize the extant of harm they're inflicting and even ironically thinking that they're the victim.

 

[plagiarize]

Sick, frothing-at-the-mouth misogyny isn't exclusive to any segment of society based on their hobbies or political views. For example, there's no shortage of murder/rape threats/jokes from demented creeps directed at both Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin. I bet some of the people appalled at #gamergate have been totally cool with that stuff when it's directed at someone they don't like.

And? That's all arguably true but it's completely off topic.

And there are other mediums that have less misogyny than ours. So we shouldn't try to be more like those? Because misogyny still exists?

Is that what you're saying?

Yes. Misogyny is real. That is no reason to do nothing about it.

 

[dantevsninjas]

Sick, frothing-at-the-mouth misogyny isn't exclusive to any segment of society based on their hobbies or political views. For example, there's no shortage of murder/rape threats/jokes from demented creeps directed at both Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin. I bet some of the people appalled at #gamergate have been totally cool with that stuff when it's directed at someone they don't like.

Who's going to clean up all that extra straw you left laying around?

 

[JohngPR]

I have to wonder where all the GG people were 7 months ago when Tim Seppala was regurgitating PR fluff pieces on Engadget about "the power of the cloud" and the "silky-smooth" framerate of Titanfall, and now he's posting snarky statuses about "ethics" like he's above reproach.

You don't have to dig very deep to see IGN saying they can't tell the difference between 1080p vs 720p, or Kyle Orland saying "don't read into" PS4 launch sales... the list goes on, Gies, Kuchera, etc.

And yet what is GG actually focusing on?

For fucks sake.

Or the Gamespot/Blizzard thing. These are all things that do matter, and Gamergate isn't going to do anything about them...it's almost to the point where talking about those things should be in another thread because they become less related to Gamergate as time goes on.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

EDIT: Have you ever experienced sexism in the gaming industry? Well NYTimes wants to know!
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/15/technology/women-in-video-game-industry.html?ref=technology&_r=1

Oh, thanks! Passed this to a few women devs I know. Should make a great follow-up article...!

 

[NoblesseOblige]

[...] I don't think people are as aware of abuse when the target is someone that flat out don't like (for whatever reason).

Being unaware is not condoning. I don't like what Christina Hoff Sommers has to say, so naturally I don't follow her. If she were to receive some sort of threat then I'm unlikely to hear about it unless it's brought to my attention by someone else. However, IF I hear about it then you can bet your behind that I will not support the threat and will speak out against the perpetrator. This is fundamentally different than what GG does, which is actively issue the threat.

 

[Carcetti]

Greg Costikyan, veteran game designer and creator of Paranoia, had some words on Escapist about Gamergate. Not sure if this was posted already but he has some choice words. Here's an excerpt:

GamerGate is an attack on the weak by assholes, supposedly in defense of multi-billion dollar corporations who need no defending, and are likely embarrassed by this crap.

It's worse than that; it is one of the most repulsive excrescences of anonymous, bullying, Internet culture. These people seriously need to be taken behind the woodshed, spanked long and hard, and reminded of what it means to act like a civilized person.

It is very easy to set up "an other," paint that other as somehow threatening and less than human, and get a clique of people worked up about the supposed iniquities of the other. And, apparently, get them to issue death and rape threats, make threatening phone calls, harass family and friends, hack accounts...

How is this even remotely acceptable? Why is this even a debate?

The GamerGate idiots have-some of them, anyway-acted like total assholes. They don't even deserve the effort it requires to spit on them.

 

[SwissLion]

Besides the straw man, it's also drawing a false equivalence between random nutjobs sending awful messages to public figures, which everyone is already aware is common (And is still mega shitty, and the fact that it's an accepted common occurrence is perhaps even worse) and this concerted effort, by a somewhat organised group to create a climate of fear in order to silence people with digging into personal information and creating very serious and immediately dangerous situations.

 

[canedaddy]

Who said that it was?

Many of the people who have been introduced to this story in the past few days believe it's about those weird antisocial guys who play videogames. I've heard this talk at work… "creepy guys who live in their mother's basement," that kind of thing. And if you look at posts here you see an effort to put all of this on one side of the political spectrum (right). It's bullshit.

Besides the straw man, it's also drawing a false equivalence between random nutjobs sending awful messages to public figures, which everyone is already aware is common (And is still mega shitty, and the fact that it's an accepted common occurrence is perhaps even worse) and this concerted effort, by a somewhat organised group to create a climate of fear in order to silence people with digging into personal information and creating very serious and immediately dangerous situations[.

I wouldn't dismiss the threats against public figures as not being serious or immediately dangerous just because the person didn't get raped or killed. And both situations include "random nutjobs" who are part of a more organized effort.

 

[RockTurtle]

They might lose all the close ups of Bayonetta's crotch in Bayonetta 2, but I think we can all be handle a change like that, like we can all handle reprints of Tom Sawyer without hateful racist slurs in them.

I will fight to keep crotch shots in all games. No we can't all handle this. Your tastes and distates aren't the standard for media!

You can have your moderetaly clothed females! You can have your varied shapes and sizes in games! You can have your multiracial ethnic character creation modes! You can have your non white 30s males with bald or combed hair with 5 o clock shadow! I will ask for variety alongside you!

But you cannot deny me my cheesecake! Because inclusion does not mean only.what I find tasteful!

I fight for PLOT and HOMETOWN!

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Come on guys, doesn't everyone whack it to snuff films? That's no reason to pick on me.

You can't fool me, I saw 8MM.

 

[Lalalandia]

Many of the people who have been introduced to this story in the past few days believe it's about those weird antisocial guys who play videogames. I've heard this talk at work… "creepy guys who live in their mother's basement," that kind of thing. And if you look at posts here you see an effort to put all of this on one side of the political spectrum (right). It's bullshit.

??? No we're just pointing out that most of the major support from the campaign is coming from prominent right wing commentators such as Adam Baldwin and Christina Hoff Summers. There are other assholes who are internet famous for being truly ugly (hello weev, Sargon et al) who could be called conservative but aligning them with a political stance at all is elevating their brand of hate to a level I'm not comfortable with.

As for the general reception to this you're right, GG has given new life to the nerdy basement dweller who can't relate to women stereotype. Good job GG.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Many of the people who have been introduced to this story in the past few days believe it's about those weird antisocial guys who play videogames. I've heard this talk at work… "creepy guys who live in their mother's basement," that kind of thing. And if you look at posts here you see an effort to put all of this on one side of the political spectrum (right). It's bullshit.

It is bullshit to suggest misogyny is the exclusive domain of any one person, interest group or political ideology, but it's also irrelevant to what's at stake in the discussions around #GamerGate, and at it's worst (and I'm not accusing you of this), carping on that point becomes a deliberate attempt to smokescreen or muddle those discussions.

(Also, there genuinely are more broadly-held tenets of conservative thought that are hostile to feminist thought, but that's not particularly relevant either [though it partially explains the allegiances of, e.g., Baldwin and Breitbart].)

 

[shamanick]

They might lose all the close ups of Bayonetta's crotch in Bayonetta 2, but I think we can all be handle a change like that, like we can all handle reprints of Tom Sawyer without hateful racist slurs in them.

I hate to drive-by post in this thread (which I have been reading pretty faithfully), but I think that this is a terrible thing. We shouldn't censor works because they make us uncomfortable. I'm all for content warnings, as well as healthy criticism of popular culture that leads to more awareness and thoughtfulness in the creation of future work, but please don't suggest that censorship/revisionism is a good end to this.

 

[partyphone]

Many of the people who have been introduced to this story in the past few days believe it's about those weird antisocial guys who play videogames. I've heard this talk at work… "creepy guys who live in their mother's basement," that kind of thing. And if you look at posts here you see an effort to put all of this on one side of the political spectrum (right). It's bullshit.

We're not putting it there as if it doesn't belong. At least I'm not. I'm accurately characterizing the situation. When your movement's biggest champions are Adam Baldwin, CH Sommers and some breibart hack I think it's fair to paint the whole thing as a right wing outrage mob.

and then when you actually disect the message of gamergate and the targets it chooses it becomes crystal clear that it's a reactionary right wing mob.

 

[marrec]

I hate to drive-by post in this thread (which I have been reading pretty faithfully), but I think that this is a terrible thing. We shouldn't censor works because they make us uncomfortable. I'm all for content warnings, as well as healthy criticism of popular culture that leads to more awareness and thoughtfulness in the creation of future work, but please don't suggest that censorship/revisionism is a good end to this.

That's not censorship.

 

[shamanick]

we can all handle reprints of Tom Sawyer without hateful racist slurs in them.

That's not censorship.

I see this as censorship.

 

[SwissLion]

Many of the people who have been introduced to this story in the past few days believe it's about those weird antisocial guys who play videogames. I've heard this talk at work… "creepy guys who live in their mother's basement," that kind of thing. And if you look at posts here you see an effort to put all of this on one side of the political spectrum (right). It's bullshit.

What has actually happened in here is not that, but the clear and reasoned association with this particular of this particular hate and harassment campaign with certain elements of radical ignorant social conservatism.

This is mainly through examination of their rhetoric (e.g. Not political I'll just threaten to murder you brutally if you threaten my status quo what do you mean that's a political position) and their identified and propped up prominent figures, including a well known crackpot celebrity, an infamous tabloid rag writer noted for his various phobias and the shitty journalistic practices he uses to promote them, and a well-known anti-feminist who works for an explicitly conservative think-tank, whose whole job is to spoon feed privileged white men poorly constructed arguments telling them mainstream feminists are bad and wrong and that she's the real feminist.

Nobody here is assigning any kind of exclusivity to harassment depending on anything. Literally anyone can be an asshole. I tend to think the shit social conservatives fling tends towards the more hateful and damaging side, but I don't deny anyone can do it.

 

[lmpaler]

They might lose all the close ups of Bayonetta's crotch in Bayonetta 2, but I think we can all be handle a change like that, like we can all handle reprints of Tom Sawyer without hateful racist slurs in them.

Whoa, wait what? That would completely alter the entire point the novel.

 

[Objectively Bad Opinion]

That's not censorship.

It is the very definition of censorship.

 

[SwissLion]

we can all handle reprints of Tom Sawyer without hateful racist slurs in them.

I see this as censorship.

Well, you see wrong.

Censorship is preventing something from being said or written. You can still find plenty of copies or versions with all that stuff still in there.

There's also such thing as positive censorship. Censorship is not inherently a bad thing.

We recently had a thing in our country where, thankfully, the government retained its right to tell a particular shitty radio host he couldn't spout hateful, actively dangerous xenophobic shit on the radio anymore.

That's censorship! Yay for censorship!

To the point of Bayonetta, I think the dude's post you're taking issue with is probably being misinterpreted. Nobody's actually calling for zero sexualisation in games, just less.

 

[Foshy]

That's not censorship.

I think the best way to handle this is like WB did with their old cartoons. It's a touchy issue.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=905429

I wouldn't really call it censorship in the "bad" sense myself either, but I guess I can see why others would.

 

[Real Hero]

Whoa, wait what? That would completely alter the entire point the novel.

I don't think any current critic is arguing to go back and change the content of existing games anyway so that's a bad example.

 

[GeordieMark]

I've been trying to stay away from this particular hornets nest of a topic but having read through this thread I can't help myself and have decided to give my own view based on my observations.

I can't help feeling like a lot of the folks who have latched on to the Gamergate tag are not even aware of it's origins, or negativity. For that reason, I don't want to judge them too harshly because I think they are basically misguided and ill-informed rather than evil or bigoted.

On the other hand, ignorance is no excuse. If you are going to throw your weight behind something, you should know what it is you are supporting, but there is so much obfuscation and misinformation around GG that I can kind of see how some people just don't see the harm they are doing.

Just reading comments on any one of the many GG articles in the gaming press shows how completely oblivious some of the people defending GG are. It tells me that whilst we are right to condemn the so-called 'movement', we shouldn't be too quick to damn everyone supporting it, as in a lot of cases they don't truly understand what they are supporting.

 

[Real Hero]

To the point of Bayonetta, I think the dude's post you're taking issue with is probably being misinterpreted. Nobody's actually calling for zero sexualisation in games, just less.

Banning it or enforcing that is not the way to go about it though. That's from one extreme to the other.

 

[jschreier]

Or the Gamespot/Blizzard thing. These are all things that do matter, and Gamergate isn't going to do anything about them...it's almost to the point where talking about those things should be in another thread because they become less related to Gamergate as time goes on.

I've said this a few times, but yeah, it'd be great to have another thread dedicated to ethics in games media, with no GG discussion allowed. I know the mods have been worried that it would be infected with GG talk, but I'd hope if the rules are clear, people will behave.

 

[Lalalandia]

I see this as censorship.

The tom Sawyer thing is because of the special challenges of who the novel is targetted at i.e. children. You can have a long conversation on societal norms and how they change over time and how some words in this book are wrong now but in the end all the kid will hear is 'N___ is a naughty word' and the risk is they will take that to mean 'cool' in the same way other vulgar language is.

Tell them the kids adventure tale with the ugliness removed and then have the broader conversation when they're a bit older and can start to handle the idea that systemic oppression manifests itself throughout society even in kids books.

 

[Buzzman]

You can complain about art direction, gameplay, graphics and everything inbetween, but having an opinion over characterization? nononono hold on that's censorship.

 

[plagiarize]

I see this as censorship.

You will not find someone more anti censorship on this forum than me. Go on. Test how hardline I am on censorship.

Encouraging creators of works to not use fan service camera angles is not pro censorship. We are not calling for anything to be banned. I'm certainly not. I'm hoping people who make games move away from such things.

I'm trying to achieve this by talking about it.

The group trying to surpress a viewpoint in all of this is GamerGate. But what they're doing isn't censorship either. It's bullying.

Would Bayonetta 2 be any less of a great game if it didn't feature as many shots of her crotch? Can you really not stand to see game designers *listen* to the people asking for less of that kind of stuff *choose* to move away from such representations?

GamerGate are calling for all sorts of boycotts. I'm not calling for any such thing.