You're still a gamer, though. It doesn't need to be your entire identity, but it's a piece of who you are. Much like how somebody with children is a parent, somebody who regularly plays (and enjoys) video games is a gamer.
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#GAMERGATE: The Threadening [Read the OP] -- #StopGamerGate2014
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You're still a gamer, though. It doesn't need to be your entire identity, but it's a piece of who you are. Much like how somebody with children is a parent, somebody who regularly plays (and enjoys) video games is a gamer.
fabricated backlash
Member
Well if you like it or not #gamergate is defining an identity for you. You can choose to ignore it, and just pretend like this doesn't affect you, but you have to realize that you are being brandished through inaction.
Prax
Member
Maybe it will get Rex Murphy to have a snippy monologue about their foolishness.
Maybe it will get Doug Ford to support them.
So many possibilities for embarrassment.
I am not all too invested in "gamer" as an identity even though videogames are important to me, so I don't know about "taking back the term", but if GAF started its own journalistic or support-for-reasoned-discussion initiative (a step beyond what it does already, that is!), then I'd be all for it.
QuantumZebra
Member
The whole Zoe Quinn slept with journalists for reviews has been debunked already. Her sex life is private and people talking about it are misogynistic fucks angry at women for having sex with someone that isn't them. Might want to update your facts.
Considering the reaction to the "Gamers are over" article, I think it's important to encourage the promotion of positive examples when trying to reclaim "gamer". We don't want people going the aggressive route, targeting anyone who claims that gamers are bad.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Gamergate isn't really defining us as gamers. Most people are wise enough to dissociate GG from all people who play games. And you know why that is? Because today more than ever so many people are playing games. That said I'd still make a contribution in the name of decent people who stand against the harassment/bullying that the GGers have engaged in. Not because I feel gamers have an image in need of protection, but because I feel it's the right thing to do.
Oh ya, I realize it. These people who obsess over and live and breathe video games are making it difficult for the rest of us who just want to play games.
Not to be harsh but so fucking what?
Labels serve a purpose and it's not to completely define your identity. I'm an engineer, a father, a husband, a comic collector, a Trekkie and many other things, gamer being one.
None of those things are my identity, but they all describe parts of who I am. They are all accurate descriptors of me.
fabricated backlash
Member
That's what I mean. I don't want an attack piece or something to rile up controversy. My aim is to show that gamers aren't comprised of hateful, insecure low lifes.
We could do this as a video, a compilation of artworks or contributions from forum members of GAF.
I just think that by not doing anything substantial, we are allowing #gamergate to speak for us or anyone that loves games, be it just casually or on an enthusiast level.
A symbolic action is needed. One that doesn't bother to disprove #gamergate, as they're perfectly good enough at that themselves, but to show that "gamers" aren't a uniform mass of people.
That gamers aren't hateful spiteful beings, but people from all ages, occupations, convictions, creeds, races, that gamers are more complex than these gamergaters would love to paint us.
Just want to point out, The Sarkeesian Conspiracy is actually a really good video that supports Anita. It shows off how ridiculous the arguments against her are, namely from Thunderf00t and the "Sarkeesian Effect" guys.
fabricated backlash
Member
I think the image of gamers isn't in need of protection, it's in need of diversification, and a display of that. It's not to defend the good name of gamers, it's to show that people who play games are mostly good people and don't agree with harassing others and using games as a shield for their bigotry.
Gamergate is certainly contributing to this.
Diversifying the marketing, the marquee video games, the conferences, the conventions, the press, etc. would go a long way to send a signal that video games is a diverse culture instead of adolescent white male.
Paracelsus
Member
Except when you tell somebody you're a gamer or a collector, they don't expect you to play one game a year or have two or three comic books, they immediately assume you're somewhat of a conoisseur, a hardcore fanatic, or just a very dedicated consumer.
I like listening to/going for a ride/listening to/playing videogames
But I guess it's too hard.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Like I said, I'd be down for contributing in the name of good people that stand against harassment/bullying. If you know of a good charity or nonprofit making strides against that epidemic then I'd happily donate some of my money to them in the name of good gamers or GAF users or whatever.
A lot of people don't take her death threats seriously, but it isn't hard to imagine a very disaffected person who views her through the lens of the disinformation that sees her as an evil monster that needs to be slain. The person to actually complete the mission, to use the gamer/war terminology they find compelling, would be seen as a hero.
It can almost be seen as the ultimate real life gamer fantasy of slaying the mythical beast hell bent on destroying the world.
Many people hand wave away what is being done as it just being "the internet", but, as people like Elliot Rodger prove, that isn't necessarily the case. Given the climate around her, someone standing on the deep end could very well slip off.
plagiarize
Banned
I love love love that today's self exposing is calling for politicians to get involved in what's being reported by the CBC. Yet again, it's so antithetical to their purported claims. They are literally advocating politicians getting involved because they don't like the slant of the current reporting. They literally want the government to pressure the press into changing their story.
As a Canadian I'd like to see where this is happening and what's going on. I love CBC as a news source.
Remember. "Corruption in journalism" means "they wrote something I don't like."
They see this as valid, though, because in their minds, the press is already corrupted by a SJW conspiracy.
The point I was making was label vs identity. A label can be accurate without completely defining your identity.
The Bayonetta thing sums of everything about the 'ethics in journalism' banner of gamergate to me.
http://www.zenofdesign.com/polygons-bayonetta-2-review-is-fine/#GamerGate for the first time in weeks actually attempted to bring up something that was almost something something kinda like Journalistic Ethics.
1) It’s not an ethics problem. There are probably a million op-eds, reviews, and blogs printed daily that you disagree with. Reviews are, at their core, opinions. It’s not unethical, it’s what makes you a unique and beautiful snowflake. And it’s definitely not ‘corruption’. It’s just a media outlet with a different point of view. Lord knows, I hate Fox News, but I’d never say they have no right to exist for having people with different opinions. Judging from the reviews, there are at least 10 major games sites who represent the standard ‘sex and violence is awesome!’ viewpoint, so lets just call that point of view covered.
2) I’m amused at how it’s like the opposite of collusion. Remember that word? Remember how Ben Kuchera and Polygon were evil for forcing everyone to print the same story (allegedly – this is also bullshit) Now, some people are mad at them for being the only ones who didn’t freely fellate PlatinumGames with their review. In fact, they’ve got a lot of integrity for going against the grain and saying what they believe.
6) Suggesting that Nintendo blacklist or give less preferential treatment to sites that give them critical review IS an ethics problem. I mean, seriously, this is exactly the sort of stuff that people like me say #Gamergate SHOULD be investigating as insidious ways that the AAA publishers completely blanket the press with feverishly positively deceptive press, and instead you’re suggesting it as a solution? Seriously? SERIOUSLY? The fact that anyone suggests this shows they are utterly non-serious about the issue of ethics in reviews.
Yep!
Alternatively, if you believe the deadspin article, there is a good chance this is just symptomatic of how all discussion is going to end up. Each side jumps immediately to the extreme and then tries to use that as an example for "all". Heck, even my younger coworkers do this same thing; the concept of nuance is one that is willfully misunderstood or ignored. Because it gets in the way of winning. :-D
that's about every video on youtube these days.
Mowki Kowski
Member
It's not censorship if it's the government telling you what you can and can't publish. It's only censorship if someone writes a bad review of a game I like.
aspiegamer
Member
He's fighting a restraining order? Against someone he said he didn't want to further be affiliated with anyway? That he in large part already wrecked the life of already? I... I just can't. What possible logic is there here? So she can be within shouting distance in case he has an ex-lover's jealousy relapse? Fucking hell.
Because it's a misuse of a restraining order.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Quinn is a sidetrack from the whole discussion. Kindling for idiots.
Taken outside of #gamergate or whatever this shit has morphed into, what she allegedly did was pretty messed up (in the context of a relationship), and it would be rightfully lambasted if posted on the OT forum in a relationship thread. But her situation, as you pointed out, has NOTHING TO DO with gaming journalism. And I should point out that despite my initial feelings of sympathy for Eron, that fact that he couldn't let it go makes him out to be a colossal fucking child at best, an enabler of malicious threats at worst.
It's entirely possible to think that she's a bad person and still not turn into a frothing idiot who thinks she deserves death and that all women in industry are sleeping their way to the top. Or, more simply, that all women are lying cheating whores.
The fact that Eron has not only allowed but embraced his venting about a sour relationship to turn into an online flame war of unprecedented fervor is a pretty clear sign that he needs therapy. He should distance himself from the entire thing.
VibratingDonkey
Member
I don't understand people's interest in this Eron person. Is this reality TV?
Pretty consistent with other controlling creepers that take protection orders as challenges rather than staying away.
He's the dude that originally made up the accusations that Zoe slept with people for reviews. He's even gone onto the Penny Arcade forums complaining that she needs to be stopped from.. sleeping with other people, and got banned. TOTES ABOUT JOURNALISM YO
Zoë has given Fuck No Video Games access to her archive of harassment against her, and right now their twitter feed has a full breakdown of how it all started and it's enlightening evidence that it never was about anything BUT ruining a woman's life for daring to have sex. Read it there.
e: Storify version available
e: Storify version available
I don't usually like JB that much (I can take only so much pretension) but he is really right on with these points.
It should be an example posted every time people in another thread go "why don't they leave?" in an abusive relationship. The partner will often make you choose between staying in the relationship and just taking the abuse when it comes, because if you leave they'll try to scorched earth you and take your support and safety away when you leave, because idiots will take them at their word.
He never accused her of sleeping with people for reviews.
He's fighting the restraining order because there's a gag order on top of it.
This is a very hard problem to deal with though. From what I've seen, people who support GG are the ones most outraged at these threats because it means that's how they're being seen. The problem is that this stuff gets drowned out by the few psychos who threaten to shoot up a college or knock down Sarkeesian's door. What exactly can the regular GG supporters who are unhappy with the state of journalism but in no way support these violent sentiments do to change this image and how they're portrayed? Because mainstream sites like NYT don't seem to want to hear it. The following was a comment highlighted by NYT staff and the fact that they decided to give it special attention says a lot about the way they approached this article (linking instead of embedding due to size): Here
Sincere, non-rhetorical question: What can the gaming community do to turn stuff like that around?
I want to say that I'm surprised but I'm really not. The man they champion as the pinnacle of good journalism works at a Tea Party site. Brietbart is never taken seriously by any news media out there, the site has almost no influence on anything they report on.
You fight a restraining order in court though, not by violating it.
My understanding is that courts tend to err on the side of granting restraining orders as it's not considered much of a hardship to stay away from someone (unless there are other circumstances involved like child custody or family members it would impact). It's not really seen as taking a side, and the court could grant each of them a restraining order on the other, for example. I'm sure policies vary widely by state/country though.
All in all though I expect taking this conversation back to Zoe Quinn is going to make the moderators lives a pain.
My understanding is that courts tend to err on the side of granting restraining orders as it's not considered much of a hardship to stay away from someone (unless there are other circumstances involved like child custody or family members it would impact). It's not really seen as taking a side, and the court could grant each of them a restraining order on the other, for example. I'm sure policies vary widely by state/country though.
All in all though I expect taking this conversation back to Zoe Quinn is going to make the moderators lives a pain.
aspiegamer
Member
I'm starting to almost feel slightly bad for him. Almost. Not in any way excusing what he's done or is saying now but he's in clear need of some mental help. From experience I know that a lot of things you do or say while completely on tilt are not what you at all meant them to be when you think about it well after the fact.
The first step would be to completely stop using the #GG tag as it has never been about ethics.
I think he is fighting it in the courts and people are telling him to stop. I don't think his violating it or want to see her again.
Stop supporting Gamergate in any capacity.
That's quite a loaded statement. Are you saying that nobody who uses the hastag has been concerned with ethics? Or that very few have?
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Fucking disgusting behavior.
That would be a start. As long as the sensible ones (if there are any) are providing cover for the misogynists, they will be caught in the crossfire.
The creation of the tag had nothing to do with real ethics.
kurona_bright
Neo Member
He's referring to the fact that the tag was started in misogyny and has always been misogynist. The 'ethics' have always been window dressing, and if not that, than a completely secondary component.
Mowki Kowski
Member
Awesome. I hope this gets more visibility.
Didn't mean it to be a loaded statement, just a clear one. This whole shitmess started because of the Zoe Quinn/Five Guys ugliness. I'm sure there are some good people using the tag but from inception to date it has been tainted with misogyny, harassment, and an embarrassingly myopic sense of entitlement.
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