Hatred - Reveal & Gameplay Trailer

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JNA said:
What are you exactly saying? Because video games are interactive, people are more prone to cause violence if they played violent video games?

With all due respect, your post screams Fox News to me.
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That's too easy... It's too easy to reference the other extreme, rambling, fear-mongering, politically charged side of the argument to invalidate a more reasonable one.

Fox News uses game violence to divert attention away from more glaring issues, like gun control. But pointing out the violence in games and how openly it is defended and embraced is not wrong in and of itself.
 
xandaca said:
*snip*
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I don't see any game out there putting you in the role of someone whose sole existence is to execute non-threatening entities just sitting around waiting for it. This game is basically just 'kill civvies and get away as long as possible', certainly the same as someone ignoring the missions in a GTA and just spending time killing to kill with no context or greater challenge other than to survive to kill more. At least, with GTA, the civilians are there building an illusion of a living city with the chance for ending up as collateral damage in the form of run-over peds or shot up people who wander into a gunfight between the player-criminal and the opposing gang or police force trying to take them down. For all of their freedom to let players choose to shoot their way through their innocent bystanders, GTA games offer structure that goes beyond simple narrative in the form of gameplay design that reacts to what the players does, making your more specific challenges and objectives much more challenging, much more interesting. Killing innocents isn't the point of those games, it's killing opposing forces and those preventing your getaway. It's the basics of video games from the very beginning where there are rivals out to get you, an adversary. Games didn't start with you destroying those who didn't pose a threat, unless you want to make your whole bit about how all games are about enjoying the killing part, because that's not what I see and now why I enjoy games that include violence. I see overcoming the odds, the actual challenge and the skill it takes to do so, not reveling in the act destruction of life itself as the enjoyment I get out of games. The depiction and focus on the act needs some audio-visuals to sell it in the context of its surrounding game, and some people really want more realistic ones and some are fine and even prefer more abstract ones. This game is all about enjoying the killing and doesn't offer anything I find to be brilliant or truly clever. It's just trashy violence, exploiting the very act with its practically pornographic lusting over the details of the act.
 
Bergerac said:
Which part about the 'mentally ill' kid in your own example did you miss exactly? The mental fragility of such a person would be entirely responsible for any violent outbursts, which in turn would likely be brought on by anger at an environmental situation, and in which case would occur whether they'd seen this particular game or not. We really shouldn't be bringing psychology into this on such a basic level.

Let's look at the real example : this thread and everyone that has since seen the footage.

If this game, its violence, its 'lack' of context... were so influential, surely statistically at least one 'stable' person having watched the video is now due to go on a rampage having been 'influenced', by seeing it, no? Not because anyone here's 'mentally unsound', but because this game has an influential power of its own, right? Furthermore it's that that would also cause a mentally unstable person to act violently rather than the mental illness?

Yeah, precisely.

I watched the footage and like everyone else here will not be going on a rampage because a game like this cannot influence in such a way and nobody here, presumably, is mentally unsound enough right now to simply go act on an unrelated violent urge that will make headlines after coincidentally having just seen this footage.

Blaming any act of criminality on this game once someone has either seen or played it is absolute buffoonery, and if at most you guys think it is a steaming pile of turd on the artistic merit scale, it's worth nothing more than ignoring, and I can't disagree with your decision there. It's simply not for you. A Serbian Film isn't for me either, but that just means I'm not going to watch it. I just don't fancy it. I certainly don't think anything is going to come of anybody else watching it. Lobbying to get rid of Hatred is censorship and speaks to nothing more than fear of real violence being distorted to the point where you're blaming things that are just plain not responsible.

People that go spree killing already arrived at the idea entirely because of situations that happened to them in their personal lives. Ironically, in fact, plenty of you are missing the point - it's the direct opposite: The various examples of media in question - be they games, music, film - do not influence these people.

Rather they see in this media what they already have in mind.
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If we replace this game with a Maryln Manson CD, we're right back in 1997.

That's more of a call for better diagnosis and treatment for people with mental health issues than it is for a call for censorship of a video game. If someone is mental ill, anything can trigger an outburst. Hell, David Berkowitz killed people because his dog told him to, according to him.

Don't blame other people's works of art, as tasteless as they may be, for violent outbursts by disturbed people. That's not a fair argument.

JNA said:
S8ehGWm.gif


XD
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That comic is excellent, I wish I could remember the title.
 
Aside from the obvious controversies, the game needs a population counter so you can see how many people there are left to kill.
 
Skux said:
Aside from the obvious controversies, the game needs a population counter so you can see how many people there are left to kill.
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Going by the trailer, It's probably simply survival based. Take out as many people as you can until the police/military take you out. Basically GTA/Saint's Row 2 Mayhem mode.
 
It really pisses me off how smug some of the people calling bullshit on everyone who criticizes this game are. Do all of you really think that we should have no boundaries? That killing characters in Borderlands is the same as the gif from Hatred someone posted here?

What pisses me off even more is game developers to whom murdering very realistically (and by that I also mean that the animations look great) rendered people without any reason behind it is a fun thing to do after I've had a bad day. No thanks.
 
kd-z said:
It really pisses me off how smug some of the people calling bullshit on everyone who criticizes this game are. Do all of you really think that we should have no boundaries? That killing characters in Borderlands is the same as the gif from Hatred someone posted here?

What pisses me off even more is game developers to whom murdering very realistically (and by that I also mean that the animations look great) rendered people without any reason behind it is a fun thing to do after I've had a bad day. No thanks.
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We can criticism it all day. I think we have been. But it has the right to exist the same way anything other artistic piece does. A game is not required to appeal to our tastes.

But we also have the option and the right to turn away from it.
 
kd-z said:
It really pisses me off how smug some of the people calling bullshit on everyone who criticizes this game are. Do all of you really think that we should have no boundaries? That killing characters in Borderlands is the same as the gif from Hatred someone posted here?

What pisses me off even more is game developers to whom murdering very realistically (and by that I also mean that the animations look great) rendered people without any reason behind it is a fun thing to do after I've had a bad day. No thanks.
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What if Paperboy had a gun? What if every time he went to someone's house he shot the person once they came out to get their morning newspaper? That's how I see it. I don't kill the nice guy whose walking around in GTA. I kill the guy whose stole the 40 kilos of cocaine from the drug lord I'm hired to work for.

The main person in Hatred does not even spark my interest at the moment because I don't think I could load that up out of nowhere either. Yet, he has something a lot of enemies don't have. He gets to the point. Normally we see the enemy's henchmen do all the bad stuff under his commands. He has to keep that complex going IMO.
 
Jaeger said:
Serious question; how many people just run around shooting and killing everyone in Grand Theft Auto games?
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I'll do it once in a GTA game to see how the police/military chase down system is. It's a minigame in Saint's Row, though that game is far from serious.

Northeastmonk said:
What if Paperboy had a gun? What if every time he went to someone's house he shot the person once they came out to get their morning newspaper? That's how I see it. I don't kill the nice guy whose walking around in GTA. I kill the guy whose stole the 40 kilos of cocaine from the drug lord I'm hired to work for.
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Yeah, but what if you accidentally run down the young couple crossing the street while doing that. You don't care. The game doesn't care. No one cares. ::Shrug::
 
Ridiculous how this game is somehow not OK, it is obviously twisted, disturbing, juvenile,... But not moreso than most other shooting games.

Are some of you opposed to Carmageddon too?
 
Jaeger said:
Serious question; how many people just run around shooting and killing everyone in Grand Theft Auto games?
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See rest of my post.

MightyHedgehog said:
I don't see any game out there putting you in the role of someone whose sole existence is to execute non-threatening entities just sitting around waiting for it. This game is basically just 'kill civvies and get away as long as possible', certainly the same as someone ignoring the missions in a GTA and just spending time killing to kill with no context or greater challenge other than to survive to kill more. At least, with GTA, the civilians are there building an illusion of a living city with the chance for ending up as collateral damage in the form of run-over peds or shot up people who wander into a gunfight between the player-criminal and the opposing gang or police force trying to take them down. For all of their freedom to let players choose to shoot their way through their innocent bystanders, GTA games offer structure that goes beyond simple narrative in the form of gameplay design that reacts to what the players does, making your more specific challenges and objectives much more challenging, much more interesting. Killing innocents isn't the point of those games, it's killing opposing forces and those preventing your getaway. It's the basics of video games from the very beginning where there are rivals out to get you, an adversary. Games didn't start with you destroying those who didn't pose a threat, unless you want to make your whole bit about how all games are about enjoying the killing part, because that's not what I see and now why I enjoy games that include violence. I see overcoming the odds, the actual challenge and the skill it takes to do so, not reveling in the act destruction of life itself as the enjoyment I get out of games.
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Yes. The appeal of GTA is total FREEDOM. It's marketed as a freedom simulator. Do whatever you want. You can go rampaging if you want, but it's not the aim or marketing focus of the game, which is more in line with a gangster or caper movie. Likewise, the random murdering has never been rendered in the kind of detail that has made it overly disturbing, and honestly it's always been pretty cartoonish.

For years, the anti-game people have blabbered on about games being "murder simulators." It's always been an obnoxious, reductive description of the games they were talking about. Here though, they've been the given the talking point example they've always longed for. The appeal here is solely supposed to be the detailed slaughter of innocents, grabbing a woman by the fabric of her clothes, shooting her in the face, and watching her body crumple to the ground. Murder Simulator is exactly what this is.
 
Rapier said:
That's too easy... It's too easy to reference the other extreme, rambling, fear-mongering, politically charged side of the argument to invalidate a more reasonable one.

Fox News uses game violence to divert attention away from more glaring issues, like gun control. But pointing out the violence in games and how openly it is defended and embraced is not wrong in and of itself.
Click to expand...

That doesn't answer my question though. XD
 
kd-z said:
It really pisses me off how smug some of the people calling bullshit on everyone who criticizes this game are. Do all of you really think that we should have no boundaries? That killing characters in Borderlands is the same as the gif from Hatred someone posted here?

What pisses me off even more is game developers to whom murdering very realistically (and by that I also mean that the animations look great) rendered people without any reason behind it is a fun thing to do after I've had a bad day. No thanks.
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It depends on whether you think art should not have boundaries. Even hate speech commentary has its place in the art world, not even specifically centered around videogames.

"Art" includes women pissing into spaghetti-os and posting it on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9lmvX00TLY
 
Mesoian said:
We can criticism it all day. I think we have been. But it has the right to exist the same way anything other artistic piece does. A game is not required to appeal to our tastes.

But we also have the option and the right to turn away from it.
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And, I think as many will do, sit back, and enjoy the schadenfreude from all the fallout this game will cause.
 
Ingueferroque said:
Ridiculous how this game is somehow not OK, it is obviously twisted, disturbing, juvenile,... But not moreso than most other shooting games.

Are some of you opposed to Carmageddon too?
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While I'm not opposed to it, I don't think Carmageddon works anymore.

Quadraphonic said:
And, I think as many will do, sit back, and enjoy the schadenfreude from all the fallout this game will cause.
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Totally. Just like we did for Postal.
 
Mesoian said:
We can criticism it all day. I think we have been. But it has the right to exist the same way anything other artistic piece does. A game is not required to appeal to our tastes.

But we also have the option and the right to turn away from it.
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Oh, definitely. I believe Destructive Games have every right to make this, same as we have every right not to buy it (I'm definitely not giving it any money, not unless it turns out to be some deep and thoughtful commentary on this or that, you know the drill), to dislike it on Steam Greenlight and express our opinions on it.

But this has been said multiple times in this thread. The thread itself has become more of a debate/argument on context in games, I think.
 
I get the comparisons to GTA and Carmaggedon but the people comparing it to Uncharted, Bioshock, etc are being pretty disingenuous. Unless the Vita Uncharted added "stick the gun in their mouths" executions to Nathan Drake's arsenal, I never finished it.

I mean, at least compare it to relevant games (Manhunt) if you're going down that route.
 
kd-z said:
But this has been said multiple times in this thread. The thread itself has become more of a debate/argument on context in games, I think.
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Considering how conceptually uninteresting the game looks, I think it's a better use of the thread.

BennyBlanco said:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/232770/

why not?
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I bet this gets a higher rating than Postal. This game seems to be targeting AO.

Bergerac said:
Oh hey, well, you know, that doesn't count because you weren't told to do it... *you came up with it all on your own*. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfMgOnirKpU
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PFFT...ohhh...coffee out of my nose.
 
Ingueferroque said:
Ridiculous how this game is somehow not OK, it is obviously twisted, disturbing, juvenile,... But not moreso than most other shooting games.

Are some of you opposed to Carmageddon too?
Click to expand...

Fuck no! I love Carmageddon to death. The is thing that is probably making people flip off is the setting of the game or something like that.

What I'm trying t say is: You massacre people just... because.
 
I think I'm just going to randomly post how dogshit this game looks everywhere.

Conceptually uninteresting, creatively devoid of any merit.
 
Bergerac said:
Oh hey, well, you know, that doesn't count because you weren't told to do it... *you came up with it all on your own*. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfMgOnirKpU
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Isn't that true though? I did my best to never kill civilians playing as Michael or Franklin and I can't recall a single time I ran someone with a car or shooting them, only murdering enemies because well, they're criminals, not murderers of random people in the street.

Playing with Trevor though, I honestly didn't gave a fuck, there was those Mayhem missions and all.
 
We don't criticize the most horrifically violent horror movies that amount to nothing more than death porn, but when it comes to videogames, there is an assumption that it should be for children therefore people are unable to afford videogames the same status they afford other types of controversial art, like rap music or violent movies.

Videogames are art, and in this case, a game that is uber unltraviolent, is kinda deconstructing our love of violent games, that is cool, and crazy. It does seem provocative on the surface, but people need to get over the fact not all videogames are just for kids.
 
Erevador said:
See rest of my post.


Yes. The appeal of GTA is total FREEDOM. It's marketed as a freedom simulator. Do whatever you want. You can go rampaging if you want, but it's not the aim or marketing focus of the game, which is more in line with a gangster or caper movie. Likewise, the random murdering has never been rendered in the kind of detail that has made it overly disturbing, and honestly it's always been pretty cartoonish.

For years, the anti-game people have blabbered on about games being "murder simulators." It's always been an obnoxious, reductive description of the games they were talking about. Here though, they've been the given the talking point example they've always longed for. The appeal here is solely supposed to be the detailed slaughter of innocents, grabbing a woman by the fabric of her clothes, shooting her in the face, and watching her body crumple to the ground. Murder Simulator is exactly what this is.
Click to expand...

I mostly agree with you, actually. I don't agree with the idea that games like this are "Murder Simulators", or more so than any other game. Whether the gamer has a choice in being violent or not doesn't take away from what they are capable of. And a person with the inclination to commit violent acts won't just not do it because in the last game he played, he had a choice. He also has a choice in real life too. Choices is what separates people who view things of this nature as art (it being tasteful or not is another thing), and this as training for something they plan on doing in real life.
 
ak1276 said:
I think I'm just going to randomly post how dogshit this game looks everywhere.

Conceptually uninteresting, creatively devoid of any merit.
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There's some technical stuff in there that's pretty cool. But yeah, outside of the things Unreal 4 provides...seems pretty shallow. At this point anyway.
 
From the screenshots and descriptions I was kind of hoping this game was going to be a really grim, dark portrayal of the sort of "good guys and bad guys" black-and-white stance on justice and morality a lot of games take these days. A game with really questionable subject matter that'll catch a lot of flak, but with a point underneath it all.

I was dissapointed when the trailer started and the overly badass, gruff-voiced protagonist started doing the corny narration. They're going to have this subject for the game and treat their presentation like they would any other subject?

I'm all for making the game you want to make, but this seems like a missed opportunity to make a statement. If the game truly isn't operating under any irony whatsoever as the trailer seems to imply, this seems like it could be pretty tasteless.
 
BernardoOne said:
Steam is doing away with approval systems and the like, so it will probably go to steam alright.
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Are they though? Aren't most of the hentai gam-ahem adult visual novels having to censor their games to get on Steam? They might be nuking Greenlight but I doubt there's going to be no overwatch at all.
 
Nabster said:
We don't criticize the most horrifically violent horror movies that amount to nothing more than death porn, but when it comes to videogames, there is an assumption that it should be for children therefore people are unable to afford videogames the same status they afford other types of controversial art, like rap music or violent movies.

Videogames are art, and in this case, a game that is uber unltraviolent, is kinda deconstructing our love of violent games, that is cool, and crazy. It does seem provocative on the surface, but people need to get over the fact not all videogames are just for kids.
Click to expand...

Who is "we"
 
Mesoian said:
There's some technical stuff in there that's pretty cool. But yeah, outside of the things Unreal 4 provides...seems pretty shallow. At this point anyway.
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I will say this.

The game will probably be very intriguing for anyone who has never actually seen someone die violently, or the aftermath.

Or psychotic adolescents.
 
Danomeon said:
I'm all for making the game you want to make, but this seems like a missed opportunity to make a statement. If the game truly isn't operating under any irony whatsoever as the trailer seems to imply, this seems like it could be pretty tasteless.
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Now that's a valuable point, but until we see the 'ending' of the game, how can we know?
 
BernardoOne said:
Steam is doing away with approval systems and the like, so it will probably go to steam alright.
Click to expand...

Corpekata said:
Are they though? Aren't most of the hentai gam-ahem adult visual novels having to censor their games to get on Steam? They might be nuking Greenlight but I doubt there's going to be no overwatch at all.
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Despite allowing things to be sold unrated, Steam does have a policy regarding extreme content. I don't know if this game will run afoul of it, but there are some restrictions.
 
Danomeon said:
I'm all for making the game you want to make, but this seems like a missed opportunity to make a statement. If the game truly isn't operating under any irony whatsoever as the trailer seems to imply, this seems like it could be pretty tasteless.
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I mean, the best statement that you can make is, "I'm not going to buy this."

Corpekata said:
Seriously. If you think things like Hostel did not get a TON of flak, you're delusional. Movies get shit for this all the time. The term torture porn is not a compliment.
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Who cares about flak when you make a lot of money.
 
I showed a coworker the trailer, and he immediately brought up in comparison "...that one part in CoD (one of the only games he's played in recent memory) where you were in an airport, shooting all the unarmed civilians for no reason". He then further said "...or when you play GTA, get bored and kill as many people as you can until the cops kill you."

I just find that interesting.
 
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