JordanN
Banned
As I said, I've mostly forgotten what my actual suggestions were, so I made that one up.
Death threats against female gamers reach NYTimes front page. Games companies silent.
- Thread starter Tiktaalik
- Start date
Thankfully the nyt explained that it represents the biggest game companies
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
I sort of think a lot of us here are partially to blame as well (I don't mean GAF, I mean Us Gamers).
I noted this when the whole Eliott issue happened, but I always felt people are too quick to shift blame away from video games inspiring misogyny and violence. It doesn't---and shouldn't---be seen as the sole, or even major cause, of such actions, but I think flat out denying it to the extent gun enthusiasts deny the effect of gun culture do was always hurtful, and a bit hypocritical. I think we've ignored the fact that games CAN AND DO foster negative feelings, and sort of enforce the idea that problems can go away through violence and force, and this all lead up to this moment.
Then again, I'll admit I've never really taken a solid stand either, because I don't feel I could ever change people's mindsets. But this whole thing has really soured me---on being part of a gaming community, of being a gamer, or really just being a man in general. And extreme guilt, because as much as I hate to admit it, in the past I've done some thing that were pretty misogynistic and indefensible towards women because of my own insecurities. But, on the bright side, I've learned to change---to adjust and realize that I was blaming the wrong people, and if I can change, I think that these people making these death threats---hopefully misguided teens who the real minds behind GamerGate have tried to take advantage of---can change as well.
I noted this when the whole Eliott issue happened, but I always felt people are too quick to shift blame away from video games inspiring misogyny and violence. It doesn't---and shouldn't---be seen as the sole, or even major cause, of such actions, but I think flat out denying it to the extent gun enthusiasts deny the effect of gun culture do was always hurtful, and a bit hypocritical. I think we've ignored the fact that games CAN AND DO foster negative feelings, and sort of enforce the idea that problems can go away through violence and force, and this all lead up to this moment.
Then again, I'll admit I've never really taken a solid stand either, because I don't feel I could ever change people's mindsets. But this whole thing has really soured me---on being part of a gaming community, of being a gamer, or really just being a man in general. And extreme guilt, because as much as I hate to admit it, in the past I've done some thing that were pretty misogynistic and indefensible towards women because of my own insecurities. But, on the bright side, I've learned to change---to adjust and realize that I was blaming the wrong people, and if I can change, I think that these people making these death threats---hopefully misguided teens who the real minds behind GamerGate have tried to take advantage of---can change as well.
Quoting this for the new page. Well said.
Of course. But you're overlooking my mention of the moderates and the uninvited. It has an effect on them if power holders denounce this. This should be pretty clear.
And some might argue that the threats and harassment are derived from a generalized cultural sexism. In this particular case, if it wasn't for the former, the latter wouldn't exist. It's difficult separating the two.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Extremists created this movement
The internet make it easier, but threats like this are far from Internet only. People got letters and still get letters threatening people. That's why the president and most celebrities have letter opening people to screen the good from the bad. Hell, even Phillip D Franco have staffers watch stuff for him so that he do not see bad stuff when watching fan videos.
This pretty much, it is not the game companies responsibly to ensure their idiotic fan base don't go around making death threats.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Dude, I doubt that maladjusted (the type that has the brilliant idea of send a shooting threat after the worst school shottings in years) people are going to stop because their favorite video game company told them 'don't do this shitty thing".
Shake Appeal
Member
The two aren't separable.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
And?
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
The most popular games nowadays have the answer to everything be "use violence to get your way", and there's quite a few games that usually "justify that" by making it a revenge plot.
You can see how that can influence someone deciding the best way to handle someone "attacking their hobby!" is to threaten them with violence, do you not? It goes hand-in-hand with the stupid machismo of gun culture and how people always jumps to the "I have a gun!" defense when faced with an issue they can't solve.
MrCunningham
Member
Exactly. Don't blame game companies directly for this, blame individuals within social media outlets for continually perpetuating these threats and stirring up the hornets nest, so to speak.
Most game companies are silent, because they don't know how to react to this BS because they aren't directly part of it.
Seriously, why do some people in this thread care what game companies do when it comes to this Gamergate issue? Why is it so important for some people in this thread to state that game companies should not speak up about something that is seen again and again in the culture which they operate in, profit from, and wield influence and power in? Why would you care whether or not they publicly denounce this Gamergate movement?
I really hope you dont believe people wanting more transparency between Media and Creators are extremists.
Not that it's the same people, but internet-savvy gamers also redirected a plane of a Sony Exec (IIRC) with a bomb threat and take down networks for "reasons." I also doubt how effective big devs could be in changing minds with statements. But I don't know, maybe it's the thought that counts.
I know you do, anyone who calls themselves a part of GG at this point is either willfully being ignorant or supports the misogynism.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Your boy Baldwin is a documented, tin-foil hat racist and misogynist
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
That is a big if...
To me trolls are terrible human beings and studies have shown that it's largely from narcissists, psychopaths, and sadists. There are levels of trolling but I have seen similar harassers and threats labelled as trolls: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17399027 http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/may/08/louise-mensch-troll-face-jail?INTCMP=SRCH
Whether it's threats vs Sarkeesian, lizarsquad vs John Smedley, swatting, etc. society needs to catch up to the digital age.
Anton Sugar
Member
This.
stufte
Member
Because it has nothing to do with them.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Because it's way past time the gaming community started policing itself. We've let this shit fester for too long, and it's on us to kill it and salt the earth.
You really think these women and declared feminists would still receive this harassment and terrorism if there wasn't any generalized cultural sexism?
Damn, why do condone sound so much like "condamne" from french. Editted it. I do not condone the threats. Threats are bad. That they come from a girl, a guy or a dog.
My boy? He coined the term Gamer Gate, that does not mean that he's the leader or that is personal views make the movement invalid.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
You actually want validation.
The harassment doesn't affect them, thats why.
No one here seems to particularly care (those aside that want them to speak up) most just say that they understand why they don't speak up and let the ESA handle it
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
I don't know too many girls in real life who play video games. The most I can do is read these news stories. It's sickening, but if you can't do anything more for a community what can you do?
If we're all to meet up on Capital Hill and fight something let me get my plane ticket right now. I'll be there. Otherwise I'm hearing the crickets chirp and the rain hit the patio.
I lol'd. This is about fucked up misogynist malcontents spreading their garbage.
Felix Lighter
Member
Explain to me what are the group ideas? What precisely does the moderate GGer stand for? I hear journalistic ethics thrown around but when I see the people and outlets being targeted, it seems like the biggest offenders, major publishers and huge publications are pretty much ignored. The pattern I see from the organized GGers doesn't jive with the idea that it's mostly made up of well-intentioned moderates.
I guess you don't know how the harassment campaign started. Feel free to read
https://storify.com/davidsgallant/the-origins-of-gamergate
Jack Thompsons and the community manager from call of duty also receive rape and death threats without sexism working against them.
"in the culture which they operate in, profit from, and wield influence and power in"
I agree the gaming community should start doing much, much, much better. But the more actors and stakeholders and influential power holders do to combat bigotry in gaming culture, the better. With this now, it should have become clear that the earth has already been salted.
This is not a gender issue in my book. It's about journalists and creators not disclosing links and agreements. Nothing to do with women or men issues.
What a stupid article. This is just feeding the fire to the pieces of shit that like to make death threats for their own amusement since they have zero accountability. I'm sure all the video game bashers were creaming their pants right now and use this scenario to paint broad strokes over anyone who plays games and will call us all amoral sociopaths.
What are you referring to?
stop abusing the phrase click-bait when you have no idea what it actually means
I want that before gamergate, but im not gonna use a hastag associated with a bunch of lunatics to get it.
Because most of the people getting harrased are female devs/writers or people supporting them, but then again you are the dude that thought that The Guardian did something illegal despite the journalist itself wanting the footnote on the original article, funny how its not a gender issue to you, but crap like this is.
That would maybe have some merit if a part of the GG movement even attempted to back away from Baldwins comments.
If that's what this shit was about, it would be focused on how big game publishers shape the conversation and hold some form of control of just about all game coverage sites by controlling access, advertising, and the preview-review cycle.
Not about the fact that indie developer X had a relationship of some sort with games writer Y, or that somebody writing about games decided that social issues or how gender is represented was something to talk about when discussing games.
You have GamerGate people spreading images that are literally trying to get game publishers to blacklist websites for saying bad things about their game.
The idea that this has ever been about transparency or journalism ethics is goddamned ridiculous.
Why? What do you think EA, Activision, Take Two and others should say?
They don't need to say anything, because only a fool thinks those companies are okay with those death threats. And it's not their job to state the obvious. Just like how we don't see Sony and Microsoft constantly making statements targeted towards views of their crazed fans that constantly make outlandish statements and claims.
If the employees of those companies were the ones doing all the death threats then sure, they should make a statement. But they aren't. They are companies that obviously do not support this, as they all have employees of different genders.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
I was thinking about Jack Thompson today...
You know, he pointed out the violence in games = violence in real-life connection, and now I gotta wonder, he may have had a point under all that legitimate craziness that got him disbarred.
Point is, he was far more acerbic than anything Anita has ever said, yet I never recall him getting this level of venom directed at him. People disagreed with him, they mocked him, called him names, yet I never felt his life was threatened for his views. No one constantly threatened him, I never felt anyone truly wanted him dead.
And I think part of that was because he was a male.