Many Kids aren't prepared for college & work force despite feeling otherwise
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RedNalgene
Member
I feel like there needs to be some sort of rotation between working and teaching for most University profs. Like, teach for 5 years, then go out and DO for another 5 years, then back to teaching. So many of my profs did a poor job of preparing me for the working world because they hadn't BEEN in the working world for a decade. The best ones were the ones who either still worked in the industry or had just left to teach.
Bubbavelli
Banned
If I needed any other reason to feel shitty for going to school this is probably it
CadetMahoney
Member
Pretty much.
Why would you feel shitty for going to school?
Unfortunately, in my experience, people who want to become college professors are pushed to think of it as a rigid career path that means immediately going to a Ph. D program upon completing undergraduate and then immediately trying to be placed somewhere as a professor upon completing your Ph. D. Mention that you want to do something else in between, and people will be less likely to fund your studies. :/
Bubbavelli
Banned
I guess because of these types of threads and findings. I know statistics can be loaded bullshit most of the time but just the constant looming of this idea doesn't make me feel great.
direct_quote
Member
Yup we're done here. With that being said I think colleges need to do a better job at getting people jobs... I
BobbyRobby
Member
In some ways, I feel college makes students less prepared.
They feel entitled and like.they are above certain kinds of work.
They feel entitled and like.they are above certain kinds of work.
WhiskerFrisker
Member
Freshman in college and two of my professors just finished grad school. Barely any time teaching yet they are teaching others. I'm not too worried though since I'm doing well in both classes.
You have to take advantage of college and do everything you can so you can be prepared for the work force. College is just a tool, it's up to each student to see how they use it. College only gives you the resources for the bare minimum required in your field, from there you go go beyond that while in college and get into other programs, internships, clubs, tests, and groups to be ready.
So many of these statistics are for those that just went to college and didn't do anything special to be ready for their field.
It's true. As someone who just graduated college with a B.S in Business Marketing and a minor in Economics, absolutely nothing I learned has prepared or helped me for my first position.
They don't even teach Excel at my school which is a vital tool in the corporate world. I am not talking about basics here, but colleges should make a mandatory Excel course that touches V-look up and pivot tables, etc.
I gained more during my two Summer internships than I did all through my college education. All it supplies is an opportunity. It's unfortunate as there are many peers that I can think of who got by in college due to the lack of challenge it really faces, yet are very incompetent people who most likely will never go far.
If you're a business major at a school, it should be mandatory to take courses that guide you on the software tools used in the corporate world like Salesforce, Oracle, SPSS, Marketo and so fourth. Knowing these tools is much more important than taking a common sense course like consumer behavior, some bull shit art class, or personal selling which are all mandatory.
They don't even teach Excel at my school which is a vital tool in the corporate world. I am not talking about basics here, but colleges should make a mandatory Excel course that touches V-look up and pivot tables, etc.
I gained more during my two Summer internships than I did all through my college education. All it supplies is an opportunity. It's unfortunate as there are many peers that I can think of who got by in college due to the lack of challenge it really faces, yet are very incompetent people who most likely will never go far.
If you're a business major at a school, it should be mandatory to take courses that guide you on the software tools used in the corporate world like Salesforce, Oracle, SPSS, Marketo and so fourth. Knowing these tools is much more important than taking a common sense course like consumer behavior, some bull shit art class, or personal selling which are all mandatory.
Aesius
Member
I wasn't prepared for the real world at all.
I went from shitty part-time jobs and college classes where I could skip, roll in late, or slack off and still pass to a world where being late, lazy, or calling in sick paints you in a very, very negative light.
Luckily, my shitty work ethic was only on display at two internships before I got my shit straightened out, but it was quite a rude awakening for me.
I went from shitty part-time jobs and college classes where I could skip, roll in late, or slack off and still pass to a world where being late, lazy, or calling in sick paints you in a very, very negative light.
Luckily, my shitty work ethic was only on display at two internships before I got my shit straightened out, but it was quite a rude awakening for me.
Masquerader
Member
Hah.
... HAHAHAHAHAH. Hah.
I still don't feel prepared for the College course that I am currently doing, never mind actual work. They are very convincing at telling you that you're the future, and that if you stay in College, you'll get a job. I know otherwise. I'm not very prepared for anything, really. College has taught me how to ignore lecturers when you already know what to do, talk to other human beings, and work properly. All very worthy things, for sure, but not what I came to do. And thus, I must instead do things the old-fashioned way... Start at the very bottom, and hopefully work my way up from there. Even I know that if I started at a higher-level job, everything would go on fire, somehow.
... HAHAHAHAHAH. Hah.
I still don't feel prepared for the College course that I am currently doing, never mind actual work. They are very convincing at telling you that you're the future, and that if you stay in College, you'll get a job. I know otherwise. I'm not very prepared for anything, really. College has taught me how to ignore lecturers when you already know what to do, talk to other human beings, and work properly. All very worthy things, for sure, but not what I came to do. And thus, I must instead do things the old-fashioned way... Start at the very bottom, and hopefully work my way up from there. Even I know that if I started at a higher-level job, everything would go on fire, somehow.
The only aspect that I honestly felt under prepared in was with IT skills.
The magic of excel is unfortunately lost on me. However, my current career is forcing me to learn fast.
Same with word. There is a lot of cool shit you can do with MS word.
Schools need to better prepare business students at organizing assets via spreadsheets for 100 level courses, then teach them the tools and functions that help track and analyze the moving parts of an organization in 200, 300, and capstone level courses.
Access and database shit should be left to the IT department.
Same with formatting word documents into formal reports. But to do so efficiently so generating important reports isn't a tedious time grind.
The magic of excel is unfortunately lost on me. However, my current career is forcing me to learn fast.
Same with word. There is a lot of cool shit you can do with MS word.
Schools need to better prepare business students at organizing assets via spreadsheets for 100 level courses, then teach them the tools and functions that help track and analyze the moving parts of an organization in 200, 300, and capstone level courses.
Access and database shit should be left to the IT department.
Same with formatting word documents into formal reports. But to do so efficiently so generating important reports isn't a tedious time grind.
Lord Fagan
Junior Member
Indeed.
Once upon a time, businesses used to train employees. They invested a lot of money into building good workers that knew the rules, had "soft skills," and, as a bizarre consequence, had reason to be loyal to their company and go the extra mile to be more productive and have faith in management.
But now, most companies aren't willing to settle for anything short of sheer perfection in their candidates. Training people is expensive, time consuming, and hard. It sucks when you take time to invest in a person that just moves on to another company. But that kind of collective mindset of fostering pure, free agent workforces only perpetuates the kind of job hopping culture that made them wary of such training investment in the first place. A vicious cycle of their own creation.
I love those types. "I shouldn't have to resort to digging ditches, I have a college degree!" Well thats nice, so tell me. What does being unemployed pay? Nothing? Oh... well, enjoy that degree! I'll be over here digging ditches, which pays substantially more.
The only thing that I learned while getting my Bachelor's degree, was how to write papers and use rote memorization. Everything useful that I've learned, I learned on the job, and college had nothing to do with it. I went back to school for an Associate's, and I feel like during my first semester, I learned more job skills than the entire time I spent working on my Bachelor's.
I think it's pretty much this. That's why you see so many job listings looking for entry level positions with ~4 years of experience and unpaid internships. Businesses don't want to train people at all. They want it all right away.
so much this. As someone who works in IT the amount of people who don't know excel and end up asking IT how to do simple shit is ridiculous.
no joke. I went almost 6 years and 4 companies before I found a company that not only sent me to training and actually paid for it.
College itself isn't really preparation for anything, rather, it's what you do DURING college that is. Specifically: internships, projects, etc. I can count the number of legitimately helpful(to the real world) CS courses I took on two fingers.
College needs a HUGE overhaul here in the states. More of a focus on actual skills/preparedness, and less of the namby-pamby "balanced" adult bs. But sadly this won't change for a LONG time due to the monetization of the college industry, not to mention college sports...
Businesses are also partly to blame, as others have pointed out, as they have greatly shied away from actual "on the job" training. Most(at least STEM focused) want you to have done internships during college, and look at those internships as your "training".
College needs a HUGE overhaul here in the states. More of a focus on actual skills/preparedness, and less of the namby-pamby "balanced" adult bs. But sadly this won't change for a LONG time due to the monetization of the college industry, not to mention college sports...
Businesses are also partly to blame, as others have pointed out, as they have greatly shied away from actual "on the job" training. Most(at least STEM focused) want you to have done internships during college, and look at those internships as your "training".
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Well of course most children wouldn't be prepared for college, this should be about our adults here that are in it.
That sounds straight up dumb. Of course someone should be upset with that. The whole point that they went so they won't have to go back doing shit like that. That is a mentality that everyone should have. Have pride, value, and self-esteem for yourself. You are your own king or queen and should strive for better. That anger is a good fuel for ambition,
That sounds straight up dumb. Of course someone should be upset with that. The whole point that they went so they won't have to go back doing shit like that. That is a mentality that everyone should have. Have pride, value, and self-esteem for yourself. You are your own king or queen and should strive for better. That anger is a good fuel for ambition,
I agree with this. Aside from the "knowledge for knowledge's sake" bs, people go to college not to dig some holes in the ground. Whether or not college actually makes you truly qualified is obviously arguable. But i do doubt that the people that went to college 50 years ago and got top positions due to it were any smarter or qualified than the people today.
This is so very true.
Not only can you possibly earn more, the job search is so much easier as well. Fresh graduates are often competing with other fresh graduates or people with minimal experience for these jobs.
Using myself as an example, I quickly realized a 4 year university was not for me right after high school, so I ended up drifting around for years before going back to school. When I went back I chose a tech school since I had over the years learned that I do not mind working as long as I am occupied with something to do and not at a desk. 2 years later with a grand total of 3,000 dollars in student debt, I had completed a 2 year associates degree in industrial instrumentation and control and started my job hunt. I did not have a killer resume or anything as I went with just a skills based sort of thing showing off what I did in school. Over the next 3 months I had constant callbacks and companies footing travel expenses to fly my out to interview. The first job I got out of school was a base pay of about 60K, but due to it being an industrial setting, there was plenty of overtime available if you wanted it, so clearing 80-100K a year was easily obtainable.
I would recommend anyone hesitant about a 4 year school look into trade schools or tech schools.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
comp sci esspecially should not be a four year program. it should be a concentrated 2 year that only teaches math, algorithms, and some software engineering. everything else youre better off learning on your own when you get into the field.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Just out of curiosity, what would be the drawbacks for someone to pay a workplace for training as opposed to going to college?
Buddha Beam
Banned
This isn't exactly breaking news though. It's always been this way. When I graduated college 10+ years ago, everybody told us the same thing - you'll learn more in your first 4 weeks in a real job than you did during 4 years of college. And they were absolutely right.
All college is for is training you to have the basic entry level skills and a general understanding of your field. Entry level jobs will take care of the rest.
That's why the whole system is such a scam these days. Screw the colleges for charging an arm and a leg for teaching people the basics and screw these employers saying, "Oh, these college graduates just aren't ready for the work force -- we need experienced people for these entry-level jobs!" No shit they aren't, they're college graduates. They've never worked in a real world environment before. You can't teach that kind of thing in a classroom, they're practically polar opposites.
All college is for is training you to have the basic entry level skills and a general understanding of your field. Entry level jobs will take care of the rest.
That's why the whole system is such a scam these days. Screw the colleges for charging an arm and a leg for teaching people the basics and screw these employers saying, "Oh, these college graduates just aren't ready for the work force -- we need experienced people for these entry-level jobs!" No shit they aren't, they're college graduates. They've never worked in a real world environment before. You can't teach that kind of thing in a classroom, they're practically polar opposites.
I would imagine that it would be harder to change jobs, as many places will not even look at you without a degree. Also, for those with highly specialized training and no degree, what happens if said job gets moved offshore or becomes automated? I just think that having a degree gives you more workplace mobility.
Believe me, you're better off with one than without. As long as the degree is pragmatic.
LUFTRAUSER
Banned
If these statistics are too boring for you, allow me to provide you with an anecdote:
I am a sophomore in college, and I was totally unprepared for how difficult it was, especially after a relatively easy high school experience during which I was a top student.
This is largely due to the fact that high school is very structure and focused on memorization, whereas in college one must manage one's own time and teach oneself the material; we've got professors, not teachers.
I am a sophomore in college, and I was totally unprepared for how difficult it was, especially after a relatively easy high school experience during which I was a top student.
This is largely due to the fact that high school is very structure and focused on memorization, whereas in college one must manage one's own time and teach oneself the material; we've got professors, not teachers.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
I think a big part of the problem was the difference in value placed on a college degree for baby boomers' generation versus the current ones. With so many technical degree programs (non 4 year) out there now it's a completely different landscape, and corporate culture and what it values has changed drastically. A lot of these kids (myself included) were misinformed based on the experiences of our parents (assuming they went to college). I was just told it's the thing you do, and employers value a degree rather than no degree a lot more. I suppose that works IF you have a technical degree, if you have anything lib arts you're most likely SOL unless you've got great networking skills or already know people that can help juice you in somewhere.
Seriously, it's such a waste of time. So much of the standard CS curriculum is geared towards graduate research while remarkably little is taught about real-world software development (i.e. what 90+% of graduates will be doing).
Sigh. But of course, every decent company expects a degree.
Same. I'm getting good grades and I'm learning so much, and it seems that I won't end with any loans, but these threads make me so nervous.
Same here. I'm close to graduating with highest honors and distinction. I just need to finish this semester with good grades. I'll have my AS degree in Accounting with that, I'm debating whether to go for my BS or get some work experience as an accountant first.
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
Associate's in Accounting will likely only get you a role as an Accounting Clerk (low hourly wage). I would suggest going for the BS while attempting to get an internship in the summer of junior year. I would also recommend a dual degree in accounting and finance if possible.
I think a lot of people underestimate the imporantance of internships.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
College takes your money and runs.
I prefer more technical colleges where you do more practical work.
I prefer more technical colleges where you do more practical work.
Deft Beck
Member
I learned Oracle, SPSS, SAP and other programs at my business school.
My internships were also pretty helpful; they were not exactly related to my major, but it was good real-world experience.
I ought to brush up on my Excel...
THIS. SO MUCH THIS. This seems like the status quo for almost every class that I took. In almost every class it was read, rote memorization, and writing research papers. It all felt like it was prep work for graduate school and almost nothing in preparation for the real world.
Universities did not come about as work prep schools. Universities are suppose to be about Academia. The job of a university is not to prep you for the day to day life of a career. That is what vocational schools are for.
The argument can be made that universities maybe should start gearing more towards jobs but that can end up changing things for the worse.
Unfortunately, most of the decent paying jobs pay for people who have Bachelor's degrees, not vocational degrees. What exactly are students suppose to do?
While that may have been the original intent, that's not how they position themselves today AT ALL. All you have to do is see the advertising the universities throw out there.
Employers don't want to train. That is what it comes down to. They want graduates to be trained for a specific job they want but the employers don't want to pay for that training. These executives that say graduates aren't prepared were just as unprepared when they were new graduates. That is not the universities job and it is sad that people see universities as the place you go to learn how to do a job.
Some people think that business schools should be completely detached from universities as they don't really fit into academia and are all about the real world experience.
I also understand your position as I did an extra year of school to get a teaching degree and a lot of that program was not practical and an education degree is pretty much the same as your situation where the degree usefulness is pretty much tied to a specific job.
I am unsure as to what the answer is as I think there is a danger if everything in university becomes career focused. We would probably end up with even more specialization where people are literally only good at one thing.
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