Primethius
Banned
That's what it is.
I see nothing wrong with the demo shown off so far, but then again, I've watched plenty of E3 vertical slice/cinematic demo's so... *shrug*
The Order: 1886 sure is, uh, cinematic
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
- Start date
That's what it is.
I see nothing wrong with the demo shown off so far, but then again, I've watched plenty of E3 vertical slice/cinematic demo's so... *shrug*
3rdamention
Member
The way I read it was:
"I started this demo a few levels in, but why dont I care about these characters? Why dont I really know the story? Why can't 4 people move a stove?"
And my take away was: Because you started a video game several levels in! The first few levels would have probably explained that. It's a video game, 4 people will never be able to move a stove if you can use some cool weapon to burn a hole in it. You would think the person writing this would probably understand they wouldn't know much about the characters or story when the developers say "What you are playing takes place several levels into the game.
"I started this demo a few levels in, but why dont I care about these characters? Why dont I really know the story? Why can't 4 people move a stove?"
And my take away was: Because you started a video game several levels in! The first few levels would have probably explained that. It's a video game, 4 people will never be able to move a stove if you can use some cool weapon to burn a hole in it. You would think the person writing this would probably understand they wouldn't know much about the characters or story when the developers say "What you are playing takes place several levels into the game.
GlamFM
Banned
I suggest you wait for more info to determine how "story driven" this game actually is.
My impression is that it´s a very barebones TPS and not that different from something like Gears.
I´ll wait for more info to see if I´m right or not, of course...
I remember that part from the demo when I played it and thought the same thing. "Why do you guys just stand around and don´t help me move that fucking stove?", "because we want you to run around aimlessly until a button prompt appears."
That part was pretty stupid.
Herbspiceguy
Member
I watched gameplay video's. One of the video's has a werewolf charging at the protagonist. You're able to shoot at it, yet the werewolf doesn't react to where you hit it. It's as if the werewolf only has 1 animation activated when it registers being hit.
This total lack of feedback instantly reminded me of a shooting gallery in a FMV game.
Primethius
Banned
Is being like Gears now a bad thing? Gears is a fantastic game. If the Order is close to Gears in terms of TPS... I'm all in.
The demo being shown is old enough that it's absolute nonsense to suggest a delay is needed to rectify issues that you're assuming still exist and are representative of anything more than a short tutorial mission.
biglittleps
Member
People really like to hate the game and don't try to think about the goal of the game. I agree they have not shown more of the game yet but claiming the game will be same like the demo and bashing the game with so much hate is really like asking developers to not take risk on new things in game to provide more immersive experience. I'm sure RAD won't disappoint and have something surprise ready to be shown soon in Playstation experience and this game is all about to blur the game and movie in story telling experience something unique based on TPS shooter mechanics with some twists to make it fun. And the targeted audience of the game is small compared to regular always shoot games people like to play instead of feeling the game world they are in.
GlamFM
Banned
Me too! I just don´t consider Gears to be "story driven".
iceatcs
Junior Member
Not sure about that. Are you saying there is no xbox biased at all?
I'm very positive there is biased anywhere from any sides (Xbox, Steam, PS etc..), and there is nothing wrong with it.
e.g. destructoid is well known hating on the thing even if it is small thing. But didn't mean they're fanboy, just biased on what they hating.
The author mentioned what you are saying. He specifically said that this whole emotionally invested thing, is probably because the demo is a few levels in.
What nobody seems to understand and if someone does, please feel free and comment, is why the game takes the control from the player so god damn often for absolutely ridiculous reasons...
Why must there be a small cutscene in order to just drag a fallen comrade?
Why must there be a small cutscene after a jump your character just made?
Why must there be a small cutscene when you open a door?
Why must there be a cutscene when you use your binoculars?
etc etc
I find it completely unnecessary to take the control from the player in such petty situations... I love cinematic games, but this is borderline ridiculous, even in the context of a cinematic experience.
How old is the demo from Gamescom 2014?
Nightengale
Member
First shown (to GameInformer) : Nov 2013
Shown to other press : Feb 2014 ( terrible framerate )
Playable : E3 2014 ( acceptable framerate)
Hasn't been updated since, from what we know. So June 2014 was the last build from then till now.
biglittleps
Member
It takes control from player because they are trying to take the attention from the player about the story and whats happening there instead of not allowing the player to skip the story which most of them do in every game by skipping cut scenes. And they are not using cut scenes in this game because everything rendered in realtime in engine, so this blurs the gameplay and cut scene to provide immersive experience. This game is trying to provide a unique experience with a story, characters, atmosphere etc.., like Super natural story telling game base on TPS cover shooter mechanics and some new things when needed. This is not always shoot game but more in the level of story and characters oriented game which balances everything according to developers. This game lasts as long as the story continues in linear way and they have many ways to explore this story which developer already explained in interviews.
martino
Member
Yeah gears lore and how it's used with a good variety of enemy and situations are really interesting.
I disagree with you. I am not unaware of what cinematic is, but taking away the control of the player just to make a jump, or when opening a door is ridiculous. I dont mind cutscenes (be it realtime or not) at all in my games, as long as they serve a purpose of experiencing important story moments and try and embrace characters ordeals.
But opening a door is not something that requires a damn cutscene, unless behind that door is something important.
In fact I find The Order's constant unecessary use of realtime cutscenes a way to destroy the immerssion, something that definitely goes against the whole "cinematic" purpose the devs have.
Take away my control when something important is about to happen, not every 5 damn steps I take.
The Last of Us is simply perfect when it comes to a proper "cinematic" experience. It doesnt take the players control so frequently and basically a lot of the most amazingly strong and emotional moments and conversations of the game, happen in real time with the player having a full control over the character. That is immersion. And it uses cutscenes in moments where they truly deserve a cutscene.
Probably my biggest concern regarding The Order is the way the story will be handled. Constant interruptions ruin my enjoyment of a game and are the reason I absolutely hated the first half hour of MGS4. I don't mind linear, but do grow tired of cutscenes that lead straight into more cutscenes, no matter how seamless they are.
This game looks as boring as Ryse.
Fallout-NL
Member
Oh, like in Max Payne 3, right?
redblack85
Member
what is it to write yet another article on the same demos presented for months now, the final product will likely be very different from what is shown in the demo
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
The devs screwed up by saying they want to make the game filmic. Every since then, everyone views the game slightly differently.
I Wanna Be The Guy
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
The difference is that the gameplay outside those cutscenes in MP3 was fucking fantastic. The Order not not so much from the looks of it. With that said I do wish the cutscenes were skippable. I had no problem with them the first time through. But when I replayed the game I didn't give a shit about the story so that's where they became an issue.
My interest in this game from when it was shown was how they would execute London in that era, it's a great setting they've chosen which I don't think has ever recieved representation. It's the complete wrong thing to have interest in first when the gameplay is more important, but the silence and media responces have started to hit home now.
Another trailer wont fill me with hope, especially if the February release date is locked (why the same month as Bloodbourne Sony?). Much more newer impressions are needed.
Another trailer wont fill me with hope, especially if the February release date is locked (why the same month as Bloodbourne Sony?). Much more newer impressions are needed.
I get the feeling when this was shown off first it was far from ready and now I'm starting to wonder if it's been shown off way to early. So instead of working in silence and only showing The Order off when things are quite far along out came a prerendered trailer and then a delay and then a demo shopped around a few expos and trade shows. Maybe it was a gamble hoping exposure might drum up more interest than an 11th hour reveal or maybe it's costing a large amount to make that it needs all the exposure it can get? Who knows but I will say this, The Order certainly looks good, but from feedback doesn't quite sound all there on the gameplay front.
biglittleps
Member
You do think and already decided in your mind that the complete game will be just like cut scene for every 5 steps based on small chapter from this game. Also you think that jump and opening the door in the demo is unnecessary without knowing what triggered them to use there. The jump could be for not allowing the player to fall down there so they wanted to take the control from that and door could be similar for some reason.
Everyone who hates the game are just those who want more action in the game than good story and characters with immersive world and atmosphere here which i can clearly see from comments. Nobody is expecting or discussing anything from story and characters in this game so far in a thread which is the main aspect/goal the developer is focusing on by telling a story and the gameplay is just the old one from Gears/Uncharted with cover shooting which is already good and developers agreed that they are not revolutionizing the gameplay completely other than doing some tweaks around the game story when needed.
Its really sad that people making up their mind based on short very old demo which could be worst part of the game or it might be linked to story more so it ended up like that. So many want to hate more than expect some surprises or good stuff from new demo. I think people these days want game like bayonetta or multiplayer grind with always action more than good story oriented game with cinematic experience. They want to play the game for fun than play to experience something unique in every game. Like i said before this game is targeted more towards like a small user base who like experiences with story and characters around some good gameplay than always action game which many wants to be so they hate this instead.
It's more than evident through the gameplay alone, dev comments have very little to do with all the pessimism.
I certainly wouldn't go that far. At least Order has a unique setting.
er... wth are you talking about?
Who "hated" the game?
We comment and discuss basis the info at hand. And the info at hand is this demo. That is what we know about gameplay. We dont hate, we comment.
Have you seen anyone saying something along the lines " oh I hate the Order's story and its characters!"? No you havent.
Also, have you read anything along the lines of "we only care about shooting stuff" or "I hate cinematic games"?
Nobody "hates" the game. And I sure as hell like cinematic games, MGS, Uncharted, Heavy Rain, Last of Us... I love em.
But this game does some things wrong in the footage we have seen so far. Completely wrong. Does that mean that the end product will be like that? No, and I sure as hell hope that we all eat crow and the games is wonderful.
But trying to justify the amount of times the player loses control for petty reasons because of the game's "cinematic" pedigree, is IMHO wrong. And I do not need context to understand that the game is overusing cutscenes for ridiculous reasons, as well as that it is completely breaking imerssion from the story itself.
I'm not saying lock the thread. I just think the OP expects things from the demo that are not usually "part" of a demo. Characters aren't fleshed out. Context isn't given. Plot holes are left gaping. We can't judge the final game based on that. You get a rudimentary example of the controls. A look at the engine. A person may get an idea of the story. If you're concerned I'm not sure how you can draw that conclusion based on our limited experience with it but you're welcome to your opinion. I was incorrect to say that people are "poisoning the well". That gives the idea that there are those that are trying to shape early opinion of this game, and that would be wrong. The game is what it is. If it's good people will play it. I am really anxious to see how the demo compares to the final game.
biglittleps
Member
I see most of the comments complaining like this game is bad and never seen people discussing about the story and characters which the developer stressed more on this game like they are trying tell a story from their previews, so nobody interested in making a thread about that(perhaps its time for me to start one i think). Everyone is discussing more about gameplay which is not as they like this demo and not looking inside the developers goal of story how its going to fold with the characters they have. Like they want to complain (its a hate if people keep telling same thing in every order thread for the same demo again and again in many pages).
FonkyByNature
Member
I really like The Order setting and all that but i want it to be like Gears of War but i have a feeling it'll never be. I want that 3rd person hardcore action shooting game with great multiplayer from Sony but they don't have a reputation for these kind of games. It looks more like a cut scene filled game with not so hot gunplay but amazing visuals. I hope i'm wrong on the gunplay part at least.
After being fucked over with Driveclub, i will not pre-order another Sony game for sure ! will wait for reviews and make my decision on if i rent or buy.
After being fucked over with Driveclub, i will not pre-order another Sony game for sure ! will wait for reviews and make my decision on if i rent or buy.
tryagainlater
Member
RAD should really sell their game better. Or maybe there's just not much there to sell us on. We'll see come February I guess.
wapplew
Member
Luckily we could use Shareplay now!
People have already said that the setting and character design looks really cool and the dialogue sounds really bad. There's nothing else we can say about the story - that's something you truly have to experience in its entirety before you can judge it. Gameplay usually consists of repeating certain actions throughout a game, so you can get a good idea of it from a short trailer. That's why most comments have been on the gameplay.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
How awesome would it be if the game turned out to be a completely different type of game then the one they said they were making?
I guess it would nice for you.
We cannot discuss the story because we dont know enough about it to discuss it any further.
Most people have commented that the style of the game is appealing, as well as its setting and the historic figures that appear (Like Tesla).
Everyone also praises the unbelievable graphics.
But that is just it. We cant say anything more about the story, because we just dont know how they will handle it.
As for gameplay we have more tangible material to comment upon. And unfortunately, from what we have seen from the little they've shown, there is legitimate concern in regards to the quality (or lack thereof) of the gameplay.
That is all. Nobody wants the game to fail, actually I believe most people wish the game fulfills their expectations and hype.
I think that is supposed to show that the Werewolves are unaffected by normal weapons. Thus explaining the need to use exotic ones. They can basically just ignore the little pea shooters.
wapplew
Member
I think the problem of the Order showing so far, is because RAD was trying too hard to impress us.
This is their first AAA project, I think they kinda lacking the confident.
To me, the demo feel like "look, this is all running in real time!" with too many cuts.
RAD should stop worrying, just make the game you want to make, be honest with it.
This is their first AAA project, I think they kinda lacking the confident.
To me, the demo feel like "look, this is all running in real time!" with too many cuts.
RAD should stop worrying, just make the game you want to make, be honest with it.
I have very much the same concerns. Both gameplay segments we have seen (the short demo and the werewolf encounter) seem to suffer from the same problem, taking control away from the player for no reason. It was super annoying in MGS4 and the same in Max Payne 3 - looks like it might be the same in The Order.
Of course I really, really hope this is not the case. This is also not to say at all that cinematic games suck - they really dont, some of them are my all time favorites. The thing developers should understand is that "cinematic" does not need to mean that the gameplay has to be filled with cutscenes - the best way to have cinematic moments in games is to have them included in the gameplay itself - not the other way around.
shinobi602
Member
What in the world are you talking about?
Lys Skygge
Member
Yeah I've always thought Gears was a well liked/reviewed franchise...especially for its gameplay. I see The Order being compared to Gears of War as a good thing!
Skinny Pete
Banned
This game has taken a beating the last several months. I'm hoping they show off some more soon to calm the hate.
That is a great thing, to me at least.
BruiserBear
Banned
The Gears games were great, but the comparisons are only surface level because it's a third person cover based shooter. What we've seen from The Order shows it taking control away from the player far more often than Gears ever did, and the gameplay impressions have complained about lifeless combat that doesn't feel particularly refined.
From a purely feature set perspective Gears also had co-op from day one, in 2006. It also had a multiplayer mode, and later versions of the game added horde mode, which was pretty great.
The Order has a single player campaign, and one that isn't getting much praise from those who've played it.
Very true
wapplew
Member
Sorry for my poor English, what I meant, the demo take away control too much because they trying to prove everything its all in game.
I think they should care too much about that, just make what they wanted the game to be.