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Legend of Korra Book 4: Balance |OT| A Feast of Crows
- Thread starter Satch
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so, I'm wondering what's up with Korra's shadow doppelgaenger. Obviously it's a manifestation of Korra's fears, but apparently it's not just all in her head? The little spirit thing in Republic City could see it too. And it seems that it can physically harm her as well. And then during the fight with Kuvira, why did shadow Korra appear again? Clearly she's not afraid of Kuvira, so who else does she fear? Her own self? Or rather, the embodiment of destruction she became when she went after Zaheer?
Besides, what are they going to do for the end fight? We already know that Kuvira is no match for avatar state Korra.
Besides, what are they going to do for the end fight? We already know that Kuvira is no match for avatar state Korra.
Korra was trained since she was like 7. She is one of the earliest avatars to be trained. Aang only knew one element and was a child with no training. Of course Korra is going to be better. The plot of Korra starts off with her already technically being better.
The only thing she was worse at was spirituality and having a good moral center (or rather having a strong conviction for how you would handle a situation based on your personal morals or beliefs). You could argue that in Korra, what Aang had made him superior. Because everything Korra keeps failing at is because she doesn't have that. It seems physical bending don't mean jack shit as Avatar.
I don't think it's a physical entity. But I could be wrong? We know she's lost her connection to Raava. And has been troubled with her Avatar State. But my take still on this, is that it's just her demons. The reason the spirit dog could see it, is because spirits can sense our own spiritual problems. If that makes sense?
I guess what I'm saying is, I very much see it as a spiritual problem of Korra, and not like a physical being.
The only thing she was worse at was spirituality and having a good moral center (or rather having a strong conviction for how you would handle a situation based on your personal morals or beliefs). You could argue that in Korra, what Aang had made him superior. Because everything Korra keeps failing at is because she doesn't have that. It seems physical bending don't mean jack shit as Avatar.
I don't think it's a physical entity. But I could be wrong? We know she's lost her connection to Raava. And has been troubled with her Avatar State. But my take still on this, is that it's just her demons. The reason the spirit dog could see it, is because spirits can sense our own spiritual problems. If that makes sense?
I guess what I'm saying is, I very much see it as a spiritual problem of Korra, and not like a physical being.
Icyflamez96
Member
I cannot see Korra beating Aang by any stretch of imagination, and I used to argue otherwise. Sure, it may make since considering Korra's background that she'd be better... But her teachers suck or something. She has no style.
I can't even logically imagine a scenario where Aang isn't dancing around her, tripping her up with airbending while Korra continue's to bend extended punches at him
I can't even logically imagine a scenario where Aang isn't dancing around her, tripping her up with airbending while Korra continue's to bend extended punches at him
Yeah well that is the funny thing. Korra is supposed to be technically amazing as a bender. Physically as a fighter etc. But she really hasn't shown much style outside of being a physical bruiser. And she's not even that great at that.
I'm just going off of like, the amount of training she has. So yeah, I'm not entirely sure I would even agree little Aang would lose to her (because his strategic fighting style and finesse IMO would still eventually undo her -- no matter how strong she is).
But physical fight aside, I still think what we are leraning is that what really matters as Avatar, is spirituality and having a moral center w/ conviction to make choices. Korra lacks what Aang had, and that makes her a very weak Avatar. Hopefully this season ends with her finally achieving it.
For that matter, what was Kuviras plan? She couldn't have known about Korra's state of mind, couldn't she. Was her whole plan really to hope that the Avatar is just super out of shape and that the Avatarstate wouldn't just obliterate her anyways? Everyone surely knows about some stories of past avatars doing incredible feats with it. What made her say "sure, sure, avatarstate is fine to fight for me"? She also never fought Korra before, she had no idea of what scale her enemy would be. I saw no failsafe either (and given the subtlety lately, they would show it). She just thought that she was surely stronger than the (theoretically) strongest human being.
Point taken. I guess, we have to clarify what Aang we're talking about. Book 1 Aang had little fighting power and experience.
what's throwing me off is that she got beaten up and tossed around by her shadow self in the fights they had, like when she fell into the cave that Toph was hiding in. And I also wonder why she saw the face (and stopped fighting) right when she was about to defeat Kuvira
Yeah that's true. It's kind of strange that she physically gets hurt by it. I just can't imagine it being a new enemy. Maybe it's the corruption of Raava or the Avatar cycle because it contains Vaatu. But they also kind of said in interviews that Vaatu won't be a problem until 1,000 years when he re grows back out of Raava. So hmmm.
Lol Kuvira got taken down by a single Avatar State gust of wind. Legit she couldn't last 1 second against the avatar state. She was done for. Kuvira isn't too bright it seems. Er or i guess really cocky.
I guess it's the cocky thing, but the more I think about it the stupider it gets.
First, connection was severed. Second, since when are the Avatars opposed to murder? That was mostly Aang. Remember when he asked what to do with the Firelord and everyone was like "just murder that bitch, lad".
Korra seems to be able to control the state though (unlike Aang who would early on keep raging out and might accidentally kill someone). I guess technically Korra was going to drop a big boulder on her lol. It's kind of hard measuring like physical damage in this show. As we see people get hit with rocks (that would in real life break their neck or bones)...and survive.
I don't think Korra was going to kill her. Just knock her out, and beat her down until she couldn't get back up. Well, that was my assumption.
I DONT get why Korra doesn't just go into the Avatar State and take her bending away from her.
Same reason why the avatar state has been nerfed.
Although, I will say that one could make the argument that since she has lost her connection to her past lives, she cannot use their techniques.
More importantly though, I think this show for all its flaws is a bit less naive than TLA could be at times.
Removing Kuvira's bending will not solve the issue at hand. Hell, removing Kuvira will not either.
Actually, I hate that I made that post. "I don't why x" didn't happen. Well I dunno, cuz then the plot would be over. LMAO
I would counter myself though and say, I kind of wish Korra would try something like that, but then fail (because of her seeing her demons or something). I've always found it strange that Korra never has tried to take bending away since Aang gave her the ability to give powers back. Obviously she couldn't succeed at doing it, or the story would be over.
Maybe Korra can only give back and not take away. We've never seen her try it.
EDIT: good point about taking Kuvira out not fixing the problem. But it would have stopped the invasion probably. WELL...maybe it would have stopped the problem if Bryke took the Amon route. Once the leader is dead, everyone scatters and goes home, and forgets about their movement or their wants and needs.
If Amon taught is anything, is that the show is even more Naive than TLA.
I'm still wondering what was the point of season 1
Well, Amon's movement had not yet reached the critical mass needed to become self-sustaining after the charismatic leader stepped down.
The earth empire is another story. It is an extremely well structured, equipped and trained organization.
Its massive size alone guarantees that it would always be a power player after Kuvira's death.
2 likely outcome of Kuvira's death:
1) - The empire frays at the edges, but is kept whole due to the next in line (Bataar?) taking charge. Probably involves infighting at the higher levels.
2) - The entire thing shatters and now the former army has split into large roving bands claiming territory and waging war with each other.
The earth empire is another story. It is an extremely well structured, equipped and trained organization.
Its massive size alone guarantees that it would always be a power player after Kuvira's death.
2 likely outcome of Kuvira's death:
1) - The empire frays at the edges, but is kept whole due to the next in line (Bataar?) taking charge. Probably involves infighting at the higher levels.
2) - The entire thing shatters and now the former army has split into large roving bands claiming territory and waging war with each other.
They elected a president, so it solved all the equality and class issues.
It was big enough they took over the entire Republic City. The amount of supporters seemed massive. I agree that it's not anywhere in scope as a 3 year military campaign. But it was enough that it never made sense that Amon being taken out made all the issues within the movement/city go away. Still with Kuvira taken out, it would have at least stopped the invasion at that moment.
I'm sure others would step up (those under her ranks). And they weren't as strong as Kuvira, so Korra could just keep putting them down as well. The problem would still be there that the Kingdom is in chaos, and needs some order. But clearly the answer isn't a military that keeps taking shit by force, and forcing people into slavery.
Season 1 is too self-contained for its own good.
For what it is worth, we do not get any information one way or another.
While the inequality most certainly still exists, Amon's spectacular betrayal has probably killed the revolution for the foreseeable future.
The installment of a presidential office is not trivial. It has probably done much to allay immediate fears.
But again, just speculation. Not enough information either way,
JadedWriter
Member
I think to fully stop the invasion she'd have to kill Bataar as well. That man supports his woman. He would've eventually came back or issued the invasion orders over the phone.
I am also referring to idealogical and organizational maturity. not just size.
Things may have been different if the equalists had time to mature and entrench themselves before the one-two punch of ideological betrayal and martial defeat.
I guess. But I think my problem is, even if the movement itself wasn't mature, a lot of people went into the movement because of their own issues. The movement was made up of people that had issues with the class system, and their own issues of inequality. So I'm not complaining that the movement itself fell apart. To me, it makes sense that it would after Amon got outed as a fraud.
I just take issue with the city coming together so quickly, and there not being any issues really. That said, I think we all agree Season 1 was problematic.
And_Gignac
Member
I cant wait to see Kuvira being totally destroyed and overpowered by Super Korra. I like her as a villain a lot.
lol Jet. Oh Jet. JET
Like that shitty Australian band. Paging Hamlet, pay for your people's crimes.
Astral Dog
Member
So, Amon is easily the most powerful bender in the world, right?
Except for the Avatar and Dark Avatar of course, i dont imagine any of the other villains having a chance against him, even together, i imagine he could even stop the 100 years war on his own, he was too overpowered, only lost for plot reasons.
Except for the Avatar and Dark Avatar of course, i dont imagine any of the other villains having a chance against him, even together, i imagine he could even stop the 100 years war on his own, he was too overpowered, only lost for plot reasons.
Yeah his level of bending is untouched. Dude surpassed his father's blood bending at 13? and was able to blood bend his own body out of his brother's blood bending. Pretty sure if they showed him water bending he would've been forming tsunamis and shit. They killed him off way too early.
Edit: Plus he knew how to permanently restrain a person's bending without the use of energy bending, it took the Avatar in their Avatar State to restore it.
JadedWriter
Member
That's why I sort of dislike him from a physical standpoint. You can't fight the guy fairly. His bullshit is too OP.
Infinite Justice
Member
and the worst thing is that they justified it as "bending".
anyways i guess that reasoning allowed them to straight up kill him since he was way too OP
LupusWarrior
Neo Member
Zhu Li is good, just saying. Not sure if this has already been brought up
You mean, she's just buying time to betray Kuvira and help Varrick out? Or that you think she's a good character.
LupusWarrior
Neo Member
buying time
"Amon is Aang" was such a long running thing for so long. I would have rather gotten that.
Was this a real thing, or a community joke?
Very real. Fandom during Book 1 believed Amon was going to be someone we already knew (hence why he wore the mask). People really set themselves up believing that the person revealed under the mask would be a major shocker. So fans started to think it might be Aang. Someone actually made a photoshop fake of it too. Was funny.
Icyflamez96
Member
JadedWriter
Member
Still better than waterbender with daddy issues. Somebody needs to be the first psychologist in the avatar world already. Might help avoid some of these nutbags gaining power and putting the world at risk.Very real. Fandom during Book 1 believed Amon was going to be someone we already knew (hence why he wore the mask). People really set themselves up believing that the person revealed under the mask would be a major shocker. So fans started to think it might be Aang. Someone actually made a photoshop fake of it too. Was funny.
Man, what a time it must have been to see Korra fandom during book one.Very real. Fandom during Book 1 believed Amon was going to be someone we already knew (hence why he wore the mask). People really set themselves up believing that the person revealed under the mask would be a major shocker. So fans started to think it might be Aang. Someone actually made a photoshop fake of it too. Was funny.
I heavily agree with this post.
Yeah. There's no way that they would introduce a romance plot and then have her heel turn for real.
Yeah, it ended up just being some dude. I mean Obito revel was dumb as hell in retrospects, but at least it was someone we knew as well as the characters in the story would be able to recognize.
When your masked guy is someone you just figured out 20 min before it lessens the impact of him losing his mask.
Moral Panic
Member
My problem is that Korra loses every fight when deus ex doesn't come down to save her ass. Furthermore her fighting isn't even fun to watch, it's not like we are seeing a battle between two people using their skills to the max and pulling out crazy stuff that makes you go wow, it's just watching the lead character get her ass kicked AGAIN.
I don't feel it works with the sort of show they are making. In other shows it works well narratively for the character to constantly lose because there isn't much at stake, and they make obvious room for growth. Technically Korra should be able to die every battle she loses, furthermore she has finished her Avatar training, she has access to all four elements and the Avatar State. Unless they start pulling more stuff out of the air there isn't much more they can do with her. You can talk about the effects from the poison, but the character had a consistent pattern of losing battles against low level opponents before.and now they have just continued that pattern but with a convenient excuse factored in. They've clearly written themselves into a box with the Avatar State and this is now the second time they have made moves to nerf it rather than writing better scenarios.
I don't find her character enjoyable to watch, it feels like they have forgotten what makes this type of show shows fun even though you know the narrative isn't great going in. It's the bending, it's the superpowers, it's seeing gods battle each other with technique and finesse. ATLA provided that in spades, with a constant moving forward in abilities shown and the power level increasing every season. When Katara learns advanced water bending at the Northern water temple she is doing moves way, way better than when she started. Toph joins late and is pretty much OP all the way through, but even she grows when she develops metal bending. Even Sokka get's a new sword and levels up his boomarang skills. Not to talk about Aang who starts off as an airbending master doing exceptional tricks but later gains the other bending arts and adds them to his repertoire. It doesn't feel like any of this was given to Korra. She starts S1 with every element but Air and gains that element via deus ex right at the end of the season. From there she has been meandering with a complete lack of any growth in her powers because the writers seemed too afraid of the Avatar State to throw her into any vicious situations where she can show off. There's not point where Korra can use all four bending skills (in ways that are unique not just fire punch, wind punch, water punch) and you think damn, this is the Avatar. It doesn't feel like the show is giving the emotional highs it needs to sustain its existence. Every fight she is in feels like she is still playing pro-bending.
The latest episode feels especially annoying because you feel you've been through the whole process of Korra losing (AGAIN), recovering from the mental shock of the loss (pretty sure they did this in S1 after Amon nearly raped her), and then finally you expect that you will see her manage to eek out a win or at least be hit by an unexpected weapon that Kuveira had planned in anticipation. NOPE. Korra loses all by herself with no one to blame. AGAIN.
The problem is that Amon ended up changing the city for the better more than any peaceful conversation would have.
They had a non-bending district, they cut off power to that district and then set curfews for people. And this was all on a whim of people who none of them were non-benders themselves. That in itself showed that there was a massive problem in the city and that non-benders were pretty much an after thought that only got attention when benders started to get hurt.
m_shortpants
Member
Agreed. She had some good fights in season 1 (namely on the roof of the pro bending arena), but those didn't really have much gravity as say, Zuko redirecting lightning against his father or even the Zuko vs Aang skirmishes in Book One TLA.
Tonraq vs Unalaq was pretty good. Season 3 had some really good fights. But yeah, other than the finale, Korra wasn't really involved in too many of them.
Korra is too straightforward as a fighter to beat Aang. She lacks creativity and telegraphs her every move. She would hardly be able to touch Aang, let alone beat him, because he is simply the worst kind of opponent specifically for Korra.
Aang approaches combat in a fundamentally different way. It's not his intent or objective to hurt his opponent; that would go against everything he stands for. No, Aang lets his opponent's strength be their own undoing. He uses his superior agility to avoid direct confrontation whilst conserving his own enemy as his opponent tires themselves out.
When Korra fights, she's a bull in a china shop. She will wreck anything that crosses her path will little consideration or tact. Fighting Aang would be like fighting a matador. She'd lose.
Aang approaches combat in a fundamentally different way. It's not his intent or objective to hurt his opponent; that would go against everything he stands for. No, Aang lets his opponent's strength be their own undoing. He uses his superior agility to avoid direct confrontation whilst conserving his own enemy as his opponent tires themselves out.
When Korra fights, she's a bull in a china shop. She will wreck anything that crosses her path will little consideration or tact. Fighting Aang would be like fighting a matador. She'd lose.
Yeah I have to say...
I get that the protagonist can't always win fights. And they can't win fights just straight up without any kind of struggle. But it's pretty frustrating that Korra almost always gets beat down. Not only that, but that often it requires some contrivance to get her out of losing, so it doesn't even feel like she redeemed herself.
Book 1, Amon kicked her ass and took her bending. She was able to come back, because ruh oh...she hadn't learned air bending yet so technically it wasn't taken from her. Even though she barely bests Amon at the very end, she pretty much was left defeated in the larger sense by her bending being gone. But then the bullshit ending pretty much gives Korra everything back, and she's back to business.
Book 2, Korra gets decimated by Unalaq. Just straight up. It's not even funny. The fight goes on too long, and almost becomes comical at how brutal Korra keeps getting beat down over and over. How far she can keep falling. To the point they even throw in her losing all past connections to the spirits. And then having Raava ripped from her and destroyed. In the end, Korra only comes back and wins by Jinora coming in to save her with no explanation at all.
Book 3....well, I don't really blame Korra for anything here. She actually kicked ass in the Avatar State. And her having the poison in her was a pretty clever plan by Zaheer. So I didn't blame her for losing her fight with Zaheer. And how she eventually won..wasn't contrived. Granted, she needed the air benders to get her this victory. But again, this time it wasn't her being a weak fighter, she just had poison in her.
Book 4, we don't know yet. But I can still look at her fight with Kuvira, and just her fights that aren't always in the finale's, and still shake my head at how weak she is at fighting.
EDIT: I can agree Korra seemed like a better fighter in Book 1's non-finale fights. Fair enough. Her fight with Tarlock was awesome. I wonder why there was such a drop off in her fighting style after Book 1 though? I guess the explanation could be that Amon straight up shook her by trying to get rid of her. That under the surface she was haunted by his claims of her not being relevant anymore.
I get that the protagonist can't always win fights. And they can't win fights just straight up without any kind of struggle. But it's pretty frustrating that Korra almost always gets beat down. Not only that, but that often it requires some contrivance to get her out of losing, so it doesn't even feel like she redeemed herself.
Book 1, Amon kicked her ass and took her bending. She was able to come back, because ruh oh...she hadn't learned air bending yet so technically it wasn't taken from her. Even though she barely bests Amon at the very end, she pretty much was left defeated in the larger sense by her bending being gone. But then the bullshit ending pretty much gives Korra everything back, and she's back to business.
Book 2, Korra gets decimated by Unalaq. Just straight up. It's not even funny. The fight goes on too long, and almost becomes comical at how brutal Korra keeps getting beat down over and over. How far she can keep falling. To the point they even throw in her losing all past connections to the spirits. And then having Raava ripped from her and destroyed. In the end, Korra only comes back and wins by Jinora coming in to save her with no explanation at all.
Book 3....well, I don't really blame Korra for anything here. She actually kicked ass in the Avatar State. And her having the poison in her was a pretty clever plan by Zaheer. So I didn't blame her for losing her fight with Zaheer. And how she eventually won..wasn't contrived. Granted, she needed the air benders to get her this victory. But again, this time it wasn't her being a weak fighter, she just had poison in her.
Book 4, we don't know yet. But I can still look at her fight with Kuvira, and just her fights that aren't always in the finale's, and still shake my head at how weak she is at fighting.
EDIT: I can agree Korra seemed like a better fighter in Book 1's non-finale fights. Fair enough. Her fight with Tarlock was awesome. I wonder why there was such a drop off in her fighting style after Book 1 though? I guess the explanation could be that Amon straight up shook her by trying to get rid of her. That under the surface she was haunted by his claims of her not being relevant anymore.
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