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[quetz67]

That is a shit November.

That would be a shit November but there is still Black Friday

 

[The Last One]

Talking about sales, I don't very often vist high street gaming stores, but I was in a local GAME at the weekend, the store is basically split in half, Xbox on one side, PS4 on the other.

The Xbox side (particularly the xbox one area) was bogging, full of people talking to sales staff and buying stuff, there was a definate buzz, the PS4 half was empty.

Intrigued (as the microcosm of gaming forums and sites, and the figures had me assuming the PS4 was killing it), I asked a sales guy if this was normal, and he said that, since SSOD had launched, the xbox one is pulling in all the sales, and the PS4 is a mere dribble to what it used to be.

Yep, the name "Xbox One" is really making sense now. Sony can't do anything to change that, they'll soon be satisfied with second place as things will start to get really bad for them this year and into the next one.

The only thing they can do now is try to stay competitive so the WiiU don't become a threat too.

The age of Sony is finally over. Things will get really interesting now that the pre-season is over.

 

[Final Verdict]

Yep, the name "Xbox One" is really making sense now. Sony can't do anything to change that, they'll soon be satisfied with second place as things will start to get really bad for them this year and into the next one.

The only thing they can do now is try to stay competitive so the WiiU don't become a threat too.

The age of Sony is finally over. Things will get really interesting now that the pre-season is over.

Joke post?

Joke post

 

[c0de]

Pls show me examples of Sony being greedy assholes in the last few years.

PSVita cards?

 

[ced]

What in the hell does sold-in mean.

 

[foxbeldin]

What in the hell does sold-in mean.

In stores = shipped.

 

[stryke]

That would be a shit November but there is still Black Friday

You said "if Sony has no Black Friday bundles", not "hypothetically if there wasn't a Black Friday".

 

[Amir0x]

Let's see if it's a sustained bump or the more typical temporary bump second-place consoles usually have...

On a less shady note, I think Microsoft has realised one of their biggest problems is the halo effect being 'first' can have, and they have to make as much PR hay as they can to reinforce a more positive perception around their own console. Being the most popular console can have a snowball effect, it's helped PS4 a lot, and can start accelerating over time once the idea becomes very strong or sustained (e.g. a 2:1 marketshare over a longer period). MS has to try and curb that.

Yeah, I think that's why they're being so cutthroat with these prices. These are some genuinely insane Black Friday deals for a console in one year that started out at the price XBO did. It's really crazy.

But for all the reasons you said, it makes sense. USA is increasingly becoming their only viable territory, and if they stop PS4's dominance here, this generation is only going to become harder for them. But the question I have is:

Are we going to stay at $349.99? How many units is XBO going to have in stores compared to PS4 for the Holiday season? So, will Sony PS4's sell out and leave the store shelves to Microsoft? How would that impact the competition? Lots of questions now.

If I held a grudge against every company that tried to fuck me over...

I'd be homeless, jobless, car-less, and naked.

Microsoft tried to make it right, so get over yourselves.

We could sit down and make a list of the last 20 years full of consumer fuckery from both Sony and Nintendo also.

First, not every company in history has done shady shit. Many, but not all. I know this has been covered before, but reiteration. Yes, in the subject that matters to us - videogames - all the dominant companies have engaged in shady shit.

BUT

Here's the thing. You are implying people have a short-term memory "when it suits them," but that is not the case. What is happening is simple: People forgive over time. The prerequisites for a consumer forgiving a company is evidence that the company in question has genuinely changed the practices they disliked and have maintained this new behavior and attitude over a long period of time.

The reason people are not still angry at Sony or Nintendo is because they have for quite some time now not been total deceitful nutbags. They've apologized for mistakes the way a company damn well should apologize, and then they've implemented actions that demonstrated they were being sincere. They refocused PS3 and then PS4 around what mattered - gamers - and kept that singular tune the entire time, to this moment. Charging for PSN is unfortunate, but it's not some insulting thing. It's a business move meant to supplement their increasing need for network infrastructure investment. We can disagree with that, but it's not the same as consistently lying to consumers every other week, making anti-consumer moves and keeping genuinely damaging policies for indies like ID@Xbox parity clause in place. They've dropped almost all their arrogance from the PS3 gen, and affected a more humble persona. In short, they made mistakes, acknowledged them, they apologized for them and we eventually forgave.

The same is true of Nintendo. Yes, Nintendo has done shady shit in the past. But when is the last time we can say this? A long time ago. New Nintendo is totally different, hardly representative of that time. And so people have forgiven.

People WILL forgive Microsoft too. But they have to demonstrate real change. They have got to fucking drop the ID@Xbox parity clause, which is a frankly horrible and hateful policy that damages the most vulnerable devs in the industry. They have got to stop trying to convince us (just at this E3 2014 no less) we just didn't understand their horrific DRM scheme to fuck everyone, because it's insulting and reinforces people's hesitation with the company. And they have gone on record now multiple times over the past year saying that is the direction they still want to go in the future. On top of that, they have still - even within the past few months - gone in interviews and continued the muddy the water with deceptions about the systems power vs. PS4. It's nonsense. They also said they've never remove Kinect only to remove it; that TV was super important only to cancel the thing entirely. I mean I hated that shit, but there genuinely were people who got the system for that. There was so much miscommunication and misdirection and false ideals that people are understandably wary, because Microsoft has not yet completely changed.

And then factor in the obscenely deceitful PR they've been releasing every month for the past 6 about how their XBO is performing, and it adds the cherry on top. They are still showcasing behavior that says people need to be careful.

People will be less skeptical about Microsoft when they show they have completely changed. Right now, Microsoft has changed a lot of policies that I approve of, but they have not demonstrated they have really learned the heart of the problem. That's the issue.

That's the difference. No one is being hypocritical.

 

[cackhyena]

Yep, the name "Xbox One" is really making sense now. Sony can't do anything to change that, they'll soon be satisfied with second place as things will start to get really bad for them this year and into the next one.

The only thing they can do now is try to stay competitive so the WiiU don't become a threat too.

The age of Sony is finally over. Things will get really interesting now that the pre-season is over.

0___o

 

[Occam]

I've been fucked by every single one of these companies in the pictures below, but at the end of the day, I love video games and think they all bring something of value worthy of our money.

The difference is the amount of fuckery. MS trying to take away game ownership from us was unprecedented. Sony selling PS3 at a very high launch price and later on removing Other OS isn't on the same level by a long shot. And that's just the gaming side of the two companies. MS has acted in an underhanded, anti-competitive manner since its inception, and has had many clashes with consumer advocates and competition regulators around the globe for decades, as documented by various anti-trust lawsuits.

 

[Final Verdict]

I just wanted to say, that I'm not trying to be an asshole. I just find gamers with internal biases to one company to be fickle and full of short-term memory when it best suits their biases.

I've been fucked by every single one of these companies in the pictures below, but at the end of the day, I love video games and think they all bring something of value worthy of our money.

Shots like these make me wish that I had not traded in my consoles when I was younger

Newer is not always better.

 

[disastermouse]

These companies don't primarily serve to please us: attempting to please us is a method they use to achieve the end goal - profits. If there was no competition, they would attempt to please us only enough so that we don't walk away from the hobby in disgust.

Microsoft seems to have a more short term outlook on goals and profits. Sony has suddenly discovered that short term thinking cripples long term profitability. Nintendo discovered it a good while ago. Although they were draconian in the 80s and 90s regarding cartridge control and licensing profits, they also were very aware of the dangers of poor quality control and a 'get rich now' sensibility since they had to fight the backlash of that caused by the Colecovision/Intellivision/Atari days just to legitimate their existence. It formed a core aspect of their approach - which is why they do such seemingly baffling things sometimes. IMHO.

 

[Wynnebeck]

I meant the probabally sold that much by right now. I figure they sold a lot at the launch of Cod and Halo.
Just think, if they sold "more than triple this past week of what they sold the last week in October (SSO week) that is almost a month's worth of sales there, so 7.5M is not impossible.


You telling me they have over 3M units sitting on the shelves?
They had 3M units sold through at the end of Dec. So it's kinda hard to believe that they would have only sold 2.5M units in the past 10 months.

This is purely my opinion, but I think some of yall are clearly underestimating the X1s sales.
If it is only selling. 4.5-5M in a whole year, then that is bad news for the industry indeed.

Please explain this post, because not only is it silly, it's approaching the "console parity is good for the industry" line of reasoning.

 

[Final Verdict]

What in the hell does sold-in mean.

"Sold In" means how many units you have shipped to retailers. So basically that number represents all the Units that have been sold to the customers + all the units that are sitting on the shelf at stores.

Unfortunately, we here in GAF can only speculate on how much of that number is sold to customers, and how much is sitting on shelves.

"Sold Through" means how many you have sold to customers alone.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Same here. That's why I always tell people not to b trade in their systems. Just save up the money and get what you want.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I meant the probabally sold that much by right now. I figure they sold a lot at the launch of Cod and Halo.
Just think, if they sold "more than triple this past week of what they sold the last week in October (SSO week) that is almost a month's worth of sales there, so 7.5M is not impossible.


You telling me they have over 3M units sitting on the shelves?
They had 3M units sold through at the end of Dec. So it's kinda hard to believe that they would have only sold 2.5M units in the past 10 months.

This is purely my opinion, but I think some of yall are clearly underestimating the X1s sales.
If it is only selling. 4.5-5M in a whole year, then that is bad news for the industry indeed.

It's hard to believe if you have not been paying attention to sales around the world .
MS has sold 3.5 million consoles in the US which is there strongest region and there still a million behind PS4.
Every where else expect UK there sales have falling of a cliff after launch .
No one underestimating MS we are just looking at data we have and MS selling 3 to 4 million consoles in 2 months is impossible unless sales sky rocket in the USA.

 

[JavaMind]

People are saying MS sold double than ps4 in november first week if that is true i think they can handle easy 500k ahead in november.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Yep, the name "Xbox One" is really making sense now. Sony can't do anything to change that, they'll soon be satisfied with second place as things will start to get really bad for them this year and into the next one.

The only thing they can do now is try to stay competitive so the WiiU don't become a threat too.

The age of Sony is finally over. Things will get really interesting now that the pre-season is over.

I love GAF sometimes.

 

[Amir0x]

People are saying MS sold double than ps4 in november first week if that is true i think they can handle easy 500k ahead in november.

"People." The only line we have is this:

The response to this wave of blockbuster game releases and new bundles has been amazing, and sales have skyrocketed since the new price took effect on Nov. 2. Compared to the previous week, Xbox One sales in the US have more than tripled, which is exciting as more and more friends will be playing together this holiday. As we head into the busy holiday season Xbox One led generation 8 console sales in the US for the past two weeks. Shortly, we will have sold in to retailers more than 10 million Xbox One consoles.

Here are the relevant bits of 'data', if you can even call them that with this shit ass deceitful PR.

1. "Sales of Nov 2 week" tripled the week prior. But the qualifier is: Everyone knew about the price cuts in the week prior, so there would have been massive sales contraction. So it actually is meaningless in context.

2. "Xbox One led generation 8 console sales in the US for the past two weeks." So, US territory only... and again, we have no idea if they mean each week they sold more, or if they meant just last week they sold so much that the total is more than what PS4 sold in last two weeks.

3. "Shortly, we will have sold in to retailers more than 10 million..." which is also fairly meaningless. How long is 'shortly'? A week? Two? A month? Additionally, sold in to retailers is not the same as sold in to consumers. There was already a big amount of XBO consoles sitting on shelves, as the XBO hasn't sold anywhere near its total shipment numbers to date.

Anything else is conjecture. It'd be extremely difficult for XBO to actually sell 500k more than PS4 in November or December, as it'd be dependent on shipment numbers, and PS4 also has extreme deals and is upping shipments. It'll be competitive, but whatever "people" are telling you is just random hypothesis about how things will turn out.

I certainly think XBO will win November and perhaps December, but it won't be by 500k.

 

[BokehKing]

Yep, the name "Xbox One" is really making sense now. Sony can't do anything to change that, they'll soon be satisfied with second place as things will start to get really bad for them this year and into the next one.

The only thing they can do now is try to stay competitive so the WiiU don't become a threat too.

The age of Sony is finally over. Things will get really interesting now that the pre-season is over.

I love joke posts like this, because it's amazing how people can even have the composure to type something like this and then hit submit and risk people flipping out thinking it's real

 

[driver116]

"People." The only line we have is this:

How do they know what Sony/Nintendo have sold?

 

[shinra-bansho]

Do people not read? This is the scenario if there was no Black Friday. It is not my prediction for Nov numbers (which I would not predict before end of Nov).

Why is that? XB1 had 2 SKUs sitting at the spot where one PS4 SKU sells some 100K a week. Plus some more SKUs at lower ranks.

Because 1) that's not how the November temporal sales distribution typically works and your numbers would amount to the Xbox One selling somewhere between 1.9M and 2.5M in November something that no home console bar the Wii has maanged, and 2) drawing absolute numbers from relative positions on Amazon charts is nonsensical. Amazon is a relative minnow when it comes to game sales, and its consumer base is not necessarily a representative sample.

 

[mrklaw]

People using Amazon just needs to remember November is the only month of the year that 80% of the sales happens in two days (the BF week).

So Xbone can win the first three weeks of November and still lost the month.

It is really that interesting.

It is like: 50 50 50 400

Crazy. So do weekly sales actually dip compared to October as people hold off on buying until Black Friday?

 

[GnawtyDog]

From Amazon sales I would say XB1 outsold PS4 first Nov week 200-250k to 100k and will continue to outsell it at 150-200k to 100k unless anything happens.

So maybe 700-800k vs. 400k if (big IF) Sony has no Black Friday bundles or other deals available. But Sony or at least retailer will have the deals so Black Friday will decide the actual difference.

Then we'll see if XB1 will reach some market saturation even at the low price in December.

I would love dem sources to go with that....or is it just your opinion?

 

[kinoki]

"Sold In" means how many units you have shipped to retailers. So basically that number represents all the Units that have been sold to the customers + all the units that are sitting on the shelf at stores.

Unfortunately, we here in GAF can only speculate on how much of that number is sold to customers, and how much is sitting on shelves.

"Sold Through" means how many you have sold to customers alone.

If we want to discuss how many has been sold, it's my experience that it helps do discuss how many have actually bought it. Sure, it benefits Microsoft's narrative to stuff the retail channel. There's a lot of those unsold units around the globe. But, I guess when you've lost the wars you pick the fights you have a chance to win. The US market is Xbox land and even there they're having problems selling the damned thing.

This holiday season will see a lift in sales but there's a lot of people out there. I don't expect Microsoft to give up in NA like it has the rest of the world.

 

[Final Verdict]

Please explain this post, because not only is it silly, it's approaching the "console parity is good for the industry" line of reasoning.

No, not parity.
I mean that the more units that sell, the bigger the industry is getting. The less that sell the smaller that is getting.

Its not just X1 sales, but that is obviously a big part of it. PS4 is the clear leader this gen. but it is not selling quite as well as the Wii did last gen. We also know that the Wii U is doing a lot worse than any console did last gen. So amusing the other two keep up pace, it would be good for the X1 to pick up more sales...

I think last gen consoles sold a total of around 260M untis over the generation...

This gen. likely won't be as high as the Wii has lost it's mainstream casual appeal, but all I'm saying is that the more units sold the better. And also it is not good to have a lopsided leader like the PS2 gen. Competition is good for the industry.

I think people in the UK are already seeing the positive benefits of this competition with the X1 being forced to lower it's price by 70 pounds, over the past year, and the PS4 now being 20 pounds cheaper in response to the increased competition.

 

[foxbeldin]

Have the 360 ever beaten the PS3 by 500k in both november and december?

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

The difference is the amount of fuckery. MS trying to take away game ownership from us was unprecedented.

Unprecedented? I thought you were quite fond of PS+?

Excellent. If this was allowed on Playstation, it would most likely be the end of EA games on PS Plus. I don't want any subscriptions on top of subscriptions. If Sony allowed this, then maybe other publishers would create their own subscription services next, and eventually there'd be nothing interesting left for PS Plus. So it most definitely would devalue PS Plus and lead to us having to spend more money to get the same level of quality as before.

Smart, Sony!

Obviously favoring consumer choice over corporate interests, too.

 

[MMaRsu]

Yeah, I think that's why they're being so cutthroat with these prices. These are some genuinely insane Black Friday deals for a console in one year that started out at the price XBO did. It's really crazy.

But for all the reasons you said, it makes sense. USA is increasingly becoming their only viable territory, and if they stop PS4's dominance here, this generation is only going to become harder for them. But the question I have is:

Are we going to stay at $349.99? How many units is XBO going to have in stores compared to PS4 for the Holiday season? So, will Sony PS4's sell out and leave the store shelves to Microsoft? How would that impact the competition? Lots of questions now.



First, not every company in history has done shady shit. Many, but not all. I know this has been covered before, but reiteration. Yes, in the subject that matters to us - videogames - all the dominant companies have engaged in shady shit.

BUT

Here's the thing. You are implying people have a short-term memory "when it suits them," but that is not the case. What is happening is simple: People forgive over time. The prerequisites for a consumer forgiving a company is evidence that the company in question has genuinely changed the practices they disliked and have maintained this new behavior and attitude over a long period of time.

The reason people are not still angry at Sony or Nintendo is because they have for quite some time now not been total deceitful nutbags. They've apologized for mistakes the way a company damn well should apologize, and then they've implemented actions that demonstrated they were being sincere. They refocused PS3 and then PS4 around what mattered - gamers - and kept that singular tune the entire time, to this moment. Charging for PSN is unfortunate, but it's not some insulting thing. It's a business move meant to supplement their increasing need for network infrastructure investment. We can disagree with that, but it's not the same as consistently lying to consumers every other week, making anti-consumer moves and keeping genuinely damaging policies for indies like ID@Xbox parity clause in place. They've dropped almost all their arrogance from the PS3 gen, and affected a more humble persona. In short, they made mistakes, acknowledged them, they apologized for them and we eventually forgave.

The same is true of Nintendo. Yes, Nintendo has done shady shit in the past. But when is the last time we can say this? A long time ago. New Nintendo is totally different, hardly representative of that time. And so people have forgiven.

People WILL forgive Microsoft too. But they have to demonstrate real change. They have got to fucking drop the ID@Xbox parity clause, which is a frankly horrible and hateful policy that damages the most vulnerable devs in the industry. They have got to stop trying to convince us (just at this E3 2014 no less) we just didn't understand their horrific DRM scheme to fuck everyone, because it's insulting and reinforces people's hesitation with the company. And they have gone on record now multiple times over the past year saying that is the direction they still want to go in the future. On top of that, they have still - even within the past few months - gone in interviews and continued the muddy the water with deceptions about the systems power vs. PS4. It's nonsense. They also said they've never remove Kinect only to remove it; that TV was super important only to cancel the thing entirely. I mean I hated that shit, but there genuinely were people who got the system for that. There was so much miscommunication and misdirection and false ideals that people are understandably wary, because Microsoft has not yet completely changed.

And then factor in the obscenely deceitful PR they've been releasing every month for the past 6 about how their XBO is performing, and it adds the cherry on top. They are still showcasing behavior that says people need to be careful.

People will be less skeptical about Microsoft when they show they have completely changed. Right now, Microsoft has changed a lot of policies that I approve of, but they have not demonstrated they have really learned the heart of the problem. That's the issue.

That's the difference. No one is being hypocritical.

Thank god at least ypu understand where Im coming from

 

[shinra-bansho]

Have the 360 ever beaten the PS3 by 500k in both november and december?

Quite regularly.

I doubt we see that degree of discrepancy between these systems. I think Microsoft's lower price is more of a leveler than any sort of knock-out, in response to lower perceived value. I don't know if it's enough to generate a perception of dramatically higher value sufficient to create such a divide, but I could be mistaken.

 

[quetz67]

You said "if Sony has no Black Friday bundles", not "hypothetically if there wasn't a Black Friday".

And then I wrote retailers will have deals anyway. But why should I predict numbers if I have no facts about what deals will be available? All that makes sense without that info is extrapolating current data.

And maybe everyone is waiting for PS4 deals but nobody is waiting for XB1 deals as the current is good enough already.

I replied to the post about 500k-1M lead for XB1 in NOV and DEC to get him back down to reality.

 

[Jallopy]

The difference is the amount of fuckery. MS trying to take away game ownership from us was unprecedented. Sony selling PS3 at a very high launch price and later on removing Other OS isn't on the same level by a long shot.

You're correct; Sony actually DID things, MS planned things. Plans they changed prior to launch, by the way. Not the same level.

 

[quetz67]

I would love dem sources to go with that....or is it just your opinion?

Don't you people read? That is what I guess based on Amazon charts. I would not even call it a prediction.

 

[GnawtyDog]

Unprecedented? I thought you were quite fond of PS+?

Wait up....how does PS+ equate to invasive DRM like on the XB1 (previous policy)?

The reach is strong in this one......very strong.

 

[JaggedSac]

1. "Sales of Nov 2 week" tripled the week prior. But the qualifier is: Everyone knew about the price cuts in the week prior, so there would have been massive sales contraction. So it actually is meaningless in context.

Didn't the SO bundle pretty much sell out the week prior to Nov 2nd? Also, weren't people able to basically get the $50 off the week prior as well. I know there were threads saying that companies were doing that or would give them the discount after the 2nd.

 

[Amir0x]

Thank god at least ypu understand where Im coming from

It needs to be said because there's a lot of people - particularly strong fans of XBO - who have this sort of persecution complex where they believe everyone is being unfair to Microsoft.

No one is being unfair to Microsoft. Microsoft simply has not actually demonstrated they have completely changed yet. Until they do, some gamers will naturally still have a very strong aversion to them.

I myself, even though Xbox 360 was by far my system of choice where I spent 90% of my time on and 90% of my game purchases, have to avoid Xbox One until they change their ID@Xbox parity clause. Because to me, it's more important I stick up for my friends in the indie community than a big faceless corporation that has a hateful policy in place just to be spiteful.

Didn't the SO bundle pretty much sell out the week prior to Nov 2nd? Also, weren't people able to basically get the $50 off the week prior as well. I know there were threads saying that companies were doing that or would give them the discount after the 2nd.

I don't know about the $50 the week prior, I didn't hear anything about that. SO bundle did sell out rather quick. But all this is just lots of data points which we have no reference point for. They're floating in thin air and the way this PR is phrased actually does not illuminate anything for us. That's essentially my point.

 

[GnawtyDog]

Don't you people read? That is what I guess based on Amazon charts. I would not even call it a prediction.

Well that first sentence of yours had no word "guess" in it for starters. I was more interested in knowing if you had insider info to Amazon anyway - cause those numbers look way off IMO.

 

[Wynnebeck]

It needs to be said because there's a lot of people - particularly strong fans of XBO - who have this sort of persecution complex where they believe everyone is being unfair to Microsoft.

No one is being unfair to Microsoft. Microsoft simply has not actually demonstrated they have completely changed yet. Until they do, some gamers will naturally still have a very strong aversion to them.

I myself, even though Xbox 360 was by far my system of choice where I spent 90% of my time on and 90% of my game purchases, have to avoid Xbox One until they change their ID@Xbox parity clause. Because to me, it's more important I stick up for my friends in the indie community than a big faceless corporation that has a hateful policy in place just to be spiteful.

Preach!

 

[stryke]

And then I wrote retailers will have deals anyway. But why should I predict numbers if I have no facts about what deals will be available? All that makes sense without that info is extrapolating current data.

And maybe everyone is waiting for PS4 deals but nobody is waiting for XB1 deals as the current is good enough already.

I replied to the post about 500k-1M lead for XB1 in NOV and DEC to get him back down to reality.

My issue with your supposed estimates wasn't between PS4 and X1 deals. Okay, so you don't know any deals for PS4, let's put that aside but there's been a console that has sold at least 1 million in November for years. If you're going to give X1 the win (which is reasonable), by that it should be easily over 1 million.

 

[Endoplasmatisch]

We can disagree with that, but it's not the same as consistently lying to consumers every other week, making anti-consumer moves and keeping genuinely damaging policies for indies like ID@Xbox parity clause in place.
People WILL forgive Microsoft too. But they have to demonstrate real change. They have got to fucking drop the ID@Xbox parity clause, which is a frankly horrible and hateful policy that damages the most vulnerable devs in the industry. They have got to stop trying to convince us (just at this E3 2014 no less) [...] that TV was super important only to cancel the thing entirely. I mean I hated that shit, but there genuinely were people who got the system for that.

So, Yusuf Mehdi is now the xbox chief and not Phil spencer?
Yusuf just said, that digital is the future of games. And, IMHO he IS right in that regard.
Just look at the PC Market, PC retail gaming is almost dead. Now look at EÁ Access, which is, according to EA, a success. And now look at currentgen consoles, digitale sales are 30% sales vs. 70 % sales in just over a year.

For example ubisoft:

Ubisoft also highlighted digital sales growth of 90.4% with €134.7 million in revenue for the sector. Digital sales made up 27.8% of total sales for the period.

Source: http://www.vg247.com/2014/10/30/watch-dogs-9-million-shipped-ubisoft/

In maybe 2-3 years digital sales will overtake retail sales. But lets just wait and see.

Also, the ID@XBOX parity clause is not anti-customer. lol One could argue, that this is the exact opposite. They want new and unique games on xbox. not lastgen ports over and over again... also, I don't think that the majority of Gamers, don't even know what that is, and don't even care about indie games.
indie games are great, but the MASSES don't care about indie games.

Also, regarding TV. when did they cancel anything regarding TV? I just bought the TV Tuner, which is great. Streaming TV to all kinds of devices on my home and even multiple devices at ONCE. Or are you talking about TV Series from xbox Entertainment Studios? This was the right step and has nothing to do with xbox, because everyone can watch that garbage. The TV Features of the xbox one are still present and well supported, mini-guide, oneguide and digital tv tuner etc..

 

[Conduit]

Yeah, I think that's why they're being so cutthroat with these prices. These are some genuinely insane Black Friday deals for a console in one year that started out at the price XBO did. It's really crazy.

But for all the reasons you said, it makes sense. USA is increasingly becoming their only viable territory, and if they stop PS4's dominance here, this generation is only going to become harder for them. But the question I have is:

Are we going to stay at $349.99? How many units is XBO going to have in stores compared to PS4 for the Holiday season? So, will Sony PS4's sell out and leave the store shelves to Microsoft? How would that impact the competition? Lots of questions now.



First, not every company in history has done shady shit. Many, but not all. I know this has been covered before, but reiteration. Yes, in the subject that matters to us - videogames - all the dominant companies have engaged in shady shit.

BUT

Here's the thing. You are implying people have a short-term memory "when it suits them," but that is not the case. What is happening is simple: People forgive over time. The prerequisites for a consumer forgiving a company is evidence that the company in question has genuinely changed the practices they disliked and have maintained this new behavior and attitude over a long period of time.

The reason people are not still angry at Sony or Nintendo is because they have for quite some time now not been total deceitful nutbags. They've apologized for mistakes the way a company damn well should apologize, and then they've implemented actions that demonstrated they were being sincere. They refocused PS3 and then PS4 around what mattered - gamers - and kept that singular tune the entire time, to this moment. Charging for PSN is unfortunate, but it's not some insulting thing. It's a business move meant to supplement their increasing need for network infrastructure investment. We can disagree with that, but it's not the same as consistently lying to consumers every other week, making anti-consumer moves and keeping genuinely damaging policies for indies like ID@Xbox parity clause in place. They've dropped almost all their arrogance from the PS3 gen, and affected a more humble persona. In short, they made mistakes, acknowledged them, they apologized for them and we eventually forgave.

The same is true of Nintendo. Yes, Nintendo has done shady shit in the past. But when is the last time we can say this? A long time ago. New Nintendo is totally different, hardly representative of that time. And so people have forgiven.

People WILL forgive Microsoft too. But they have to demonstrate real change. They have got to fucking drop the ID@Xbox parity clause, which is a frankly horrible and hateful policy that damages the most vulnerable devs in the industry. They have got to stop trying to convince us (just at this E3 2014 no less) we just didn't understand their horrific DRM scheme to fuck everyone, because it's insulting and reinforces people's hesitation with the company. And they have gone on record now multiple times over the past year saying that is the direction they still want to go in the future. On top of that, they have still - even within the past few months - gone in interviews and continued the muddy the water with deceptions about the systems power vs. PS4. It's nonsense. They also said they've never remove Kinect only to remove it; that TV was super important only to cancel the thing entirely. I mean I hated that shit, but there genuinely were people who got the system for that. There was so much miscommunication and misdirection and false ideals that people are understandably wary, because Microsoft has not yet completely changed.

And then factor in the obscenely deceitful PR they've been releasing every month for the past 6 about how their XBO is performing, and it adds the cherry on top. They are still showcasing behavior that says people need to be careful.

People will be less skeptical about Microsoft when they show they have completely changed. Right now, Microsoft has changed a lot of policies that I approve of, but they have not demonstrated they have really learned the heart of the problem. That's the issue.

That's the difference. No one is being hypocritical.

Nice post. Don't forget Jack Tretton's speach :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVeUfNxS0hw

 

[foxbeldin]

Quite regularly.

I doubt we see that degree of discrepancy between these systems. I think Microsoft's lower price is more of a leveler than any sort of knock-out, in response to lower perceived value. I don't know if it's enough to generate a perception of dramatically higher value sufficient to create such a divide, but I could be mistaken.

Well from what i managed to see, only in 2011 and 2012.

 

[Occam]

Unprecedented? I thought you were quite fond of PS+?



Obviously favoring consumer choice over corporate interests, too.

I am of the opinion that this particular decision is in my best interest. If it happens to coincide with their business interests, good for them.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

I know the mods get upset if we infer bias based on posters' avatars, but can we amend that rule to not include people with Master Chief avatars? Because it's like whoa.

 

[panda-zebra]

I am very well connected, particularly compared to you. Your sources consist of the Halo 3 Legendary Edition cat helmet, Speedy Blue Dude, and the imaginary notes Larry Hyrb writes on your bathroom mirror after a shower.

I don't care this post is over 12 hours old, quoting as it's the single most humerous, thrilling and altogether perfect post I ever read on GAF. I know it's a common reaction and over-used, but I really did just involuntarily empty the contents of my mouth over my virtual keyboard.

Spoiler

No biggie, always got the wetwipes on hand.

That's really insulting Kev. He also talks to Tim Dogg.

ffs, I only just got this cleaned up

 

[Final Verdict]

It's hard to believe if you have not been paying attention to sales around the world .
MS has sold 3.5 million consoles in the US which is there strongest region and there still a million behind PS4.
Every where else expect UK there sales have falling of a cliff after launch .
No one underestimating MS we are just looking at data we have and MS selling 3 to 4 million consoles in 2 months is impossible unless sales sky rocket in the USA.

I have only heard sales data for the US, and occasionally some UK data (as far as I know).
I heard X1 has been struggling around the world, but since I don't have any solid numbers, it is very hard to do anything but guess...

Now my prediction was about 9.5M WW by end of the year. I don't think this is impossible, but maybe it is, so I'm just quit talking about it, and wait till we get some actual number at the end of they year.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Wait up....how does PS+ equate to invasive DRM like on the XB1 (previous policy)?

The reach is strong in this one......very strong.

I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy in his pro-game ownership claims since he obviously likes the "free" games aspect of PS+, and that did away with game ownership long before Microsoft proposed their Xbox One plans.

 

[Ursiform]

I just never understood all the rage about 599. I mean, it should have had more RAM at that price but it's not all that unreasonable.

The rootkit fiasco, now there is something to get hot about.

 

[stryke]

I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy in his pro-game ownership claims since he obviously likes the "free" games aspect of PS+, and that did away with game ownership long before Microsoft proposed their Xbox One plans.

PS+ games didn't fuck around with the existing paradigm of physical discs.

 

[Lys Skygge]

Yeah, I think that's why they're being so cutthroat with these prices. These are some genuinely insane Black Friday deals for a console in one year that started out at the price XBO did. It's really crazy.

But for all the reasons you said, it makes sense. USA is increasingly becoming their only viable territory, and if they stop PS4's dominance here, this generation is only going to become harder for them. But the question I have is:

Are we going to stay at $349.99? How many units is XBO going to have in stores compared to PS4 for the Holiday season? So, will Sony PS4's sell out and leave the store shelves to Microsoft? How would that impact the competition? Lots of questions now.



First, not every company in history has done shady shit. Many, but not all. I know this has been covered before, but reiteration. Yes, in the subject that matters to us - videogames - all the dominant companies have engaged in shady shit.

BUT

Here's the thing. You are implying people have a short-term memory "when it suits them," but that is not the case. What is happening is simple: People forgive over time. The prerequisites for a consumer forgiving a company is evidence that the company in question has genuinely changed the practices they disliked and have maintained this new behavior and attitude over a long period of time.

The reason people are not still angry at Sony or Nintendo is because they have for quite some time now not been total deceitful nutbags. They've apologized for mistakes the way a company damn well should apologize, and then they've implemented actions that demonstrated they were being sincere. They refocused PS3 and then PS4 around what mattered - gamers - and kept that singular tune the entire time, to this moment. Charging for PSN is unfortunate, but it's not some insulting thing. It's a business move meant to supplement their increasing need for network infrastructure investment. We can disagree with that, but it's not the same as consistently lying to consumers every other week, making anti-consumer moves and keeping genuinely damaging policies for indies like ID@Xbox parity clause in place. They've dropped almost all their arrogance from the PS3 gen, and affected a more humble persona. In short, they made mistakes, acknowledged them, they apologized for them and we eventually forgave.

The same is true of Nintendo. Yes, Nintendo has done shady shit in the past. But when is the last time we can say this? A long time ago. New Nintendo is totally different, hardly representative of that time. And so people have forgiven.

People WILL forgive Microsoft too. But they have to demonstrate real change. They have got to fucking drop the ID@Xbox parity clause, which is a frankly horrible and hateful policy that damages the most vulnerable devs in the industry. They have got to stop trying to convince us (just at this E3 2014 no less) we just didn't understand their horrific DRM scheme to fuck everyone, because it's insulting and reinforces people's hesitation with the company. And they have gone on record now multiple times over the past year saying that is the direction they still want to go in the future. On top of that, they have still - even within the past few months - gone in interviews and continued the muddy the water with deceptions about the systems power vs. PS4. It's nonsense. They also said they've never remove Kinect only to remove it; that TV was super important only to cancel the thing entirely. I mean I hated that shit, but there genuinely were people who got the system for that. There was so much miscommunication and misdirection and false ideals that people are understandably wary, because Microsoft has not yet completely changed.

And then factor in the obscenely deceitful PR they've been releasing every month for the past 6 about how their XBO is performing, and it adds the cherry on top. They are still showcasing behavior that says people need to be careful.

People will be less skeptical about Microsoft when they show they have completely changed. Right now, Microsoft has changed a lot of policies that I approve of, but they have not demonstrated they have really learned the heart of the problem. That's the issue.

That's the difference. No one is being hypocritical.

Great post and my exact thoughts.