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[Kimosabae]

Stick with your main or you're wasting my time. Most of the time, it's not that the person is generally much better at the game, I just don't know shit about the character they're playing. Especially nowadays, with all these bloated rosters

If you're not giving the person a chance to learn the matchup, then you don't really know where that person stands in relation to you if you're beating them. If they're generally scrubby - constant Reversals on wakeup, no optimized damage, no anti-airing, not teching obvious grab setups, etc. etc., then that's a little bit different, because as the clearly better player, you will get bored. But even still, you'd be helping that person a ton in improving if you introduced less variance into the set, regardless. I'd like to think that people would want to help others get better.

 

[QisTopTier]

Stick with your main or you're wasting my time. Most of the time, it's not that the person is generally much better at the game, I just don't know shit about the character they're playing. Especially nowadays, with all these bloated rosters

If you're not giving the person a chance to learn the matchup, then you don't really know where that person stands in relation to you if you're beating them. If they're generally scrubby - constant Reversals on wakeup, no optimized damage, no anti-airing, not teching obvious grab setups, etc. etc., then that's a little bit different. But even still, you'd be helping that person a ton in improving if you introduced less variance into the set, regardless. I'd like to think that people would want to help others get better.

Then forfeit the rest of the ft10

Some people can play multiples and unless a rule is in place to character lock I fail to see the issue. If someone is bored and not having fun why not let them have some fun and if they lose because of it well damn, their own fault. If it's character match up knowledge you want ask the player to swap back after they cchangeand say why. But in a ft10 that's not really time to learn

 

[Kimosabae]

Then forfeit the rest of the ft10

Some people can play multiples and unless a rule is in place to character lock I fail to see the issue. If someone is bored and not having fun why not let them have some fun and if they lose because of it well damn, their own fault. If it's character match up knowledge you want ask the player to swap back after they cchangeand say why. But in a ft10 that's not really time to learn

I would do this. You're just making assumptions based off nothing I said in the post you quoted, and tying shit together from forum history you don't even have all the details of.

 

[QisTopTier]

I would do this. You're just making assumptions based off nothing I said in the post you quoted, and tying shit together from forum history you don't even have all the details of.

You basically said it's not fair if said person doesn't get a chance to learn the match up. Come on now that's silly. If they don't know it at the time it's on them. You can request them to change back in casuals and state you need practice vs said character but outside of that, no one should be required to do squat unless rules state otherwise.

 

[Kimosabae]

You basically said it's not fair if said person doesn't get a chance to learn the match up. Come on now that's silly. If they don't know it at the time it's on them. You can request them to change back in casuals and state you need practice vs said character but outside of that, no one should be required to do squat unless rules state otherwise.

Again, you're making assumptions based of nothing premised in the original post. You're referring to my match with Blackule, which was a FT10 - I never said shit about particular, competitive sets. No doubt, if the rules of a competitive FT10 aren't established as a character lock, then the players should do what they want. But of course, that's not what I was referring to. That's what you want to refer to.

 

[Laconic]

I had a bunch of tabs open, and thought I'd clicked on a Gamefaqs tab, there for a second.

Carry on.

*grandpasimpsonleaving.gif*

 

[QisTopTier]

Again, you're making assumptions based of nothing premised in the original post. You're referring to my match with Blackule, which was a FT10 - I never said shit about particular, competitive sets. No shit, if the rules of a competitive FT10 aren't established as a character lock, then the players should do what they want. But of course, that's not what I was referring to. That's what you want to refer to.

I'm not, you actually typed this.

If you're not giving the person a chance to learn the matchup, then you don't really know where that person stands in relation to you if you're beating them..

and that's silly

 

[Kimosabae]

I'm not, you actually typed this.

Yeah you were. The following quote doesn't refer to competitive FT10 sets at all.

and that's silly

Whatever, guy. You're really going to tell me that you've never lost to someone simply due to unfamiliarity with a character's setups/gimmicks and then proceeded to body them after the honeymoon period? Or even being rusty at the particulars of a matchup caused you to lose to someone you'd actually beat in a competitive FT10?

Last night was a perfect example: I was playing Melee against a Samus player for a good hour or so. I don't really play the game anymore, but my fundamentals are solid. This guy 3/4 stocked for about 15 minutes and then beat me once or twice the rest of the night as I started to get more familiar with the Samus matchup vs. Marth/Falcon. Yeah, they're just casuals, but I'd have a hard time believing he this guy would place higher in a tournament setting or beat me in a FT10.

Sorry this has never been your experience, but it does happen.

 

[Dlent]

A lot of fighting games have a built in button specifically for disrespecting, but Persona doesn't so you have to make due with raw IK/character switch/goofing around. Just stop playing that person if they're just using an alt to toy with you, or get good.

 

[Marz]

This whole situation seems pretty whack tbh.

"We don't like how you play ft10's against others in these online tournaments!"

Ban!

This is like some little kid shit.

Stick with your main or you're wasting my time. Most of the time, it's not that the person is generally much better at the game, I just don't know shit about the character they're playing. Especially nowadays, with all these bloated rosters

If you're not giving the person a chance to learn the matchup, then you don't really know where that person stands in relation to you if you're beating them. If they're generally scrubby - constant Reversals on wakeup, no optimized damage, no anti-airing, not teching obvious grab setups, etc. etc., then that's a little bit different, because as the clearly better player, you will get bored. But even still, you'd be helping that person a ton in improving if you introduced less variance into the set, regardless. I'd like to think that people would want to help others get better.

This post is ridiculous.

If you're not giving them enough of a challenge to where they have to play their main, you're wasting their time..not the other way around.

Not knowing "where that person stands in relation to you" is not really the point. If I'm playing a ft10 with someone I could give a fuck less where they stand in relation to me, my purpose is to get in that ass.

Its not other players responsibility to help you level up. Whenever I play against players far outside of my skill range I get a little irritated when they're picking a different character every match, but then I sit back and realize its a learning opportunity all the same. Having to adjust on the fly to how they approach each character is important.

People play fighting games for various reasons and I'm sure for the majority of people its definitely not a huge concern to help others get better.

When I'm at the gym playing a pickup game I'm not thinking "oh man this guy on the other team could use my help let me give him some pointers"...I'm just there for me.

 

[Kimosabae]

We're really going to keep talking about FT10s, like I'm being disagreeable there, huh?

Gonna leave that alone.

You're not obligated to have any responsibility towards helping people get better at things. It's a moral injunction. Having a stronger community of players makes everyone better, so if you're truly competitive, you realize that you're only as good as your weakest link, and you act less selfishly in accordance.


I figured Level Up vs Battle Circuit made that pretty damned clear.

 

[QisTopTier]

I lose to stuff I don't understand all the time, but it's not the other players responsibility to teach it to me. No one's time is more valuable than anyone else.

 

[Dahbomb]

Unfamiliarity with character gimmicks and lack of match up experience is a player fault not a game's fault for having too many characters. Nor is it the other player's fault.

If you lost to someone doing gimmicks then it's not that person's fault.

Switching character is also fine, not everyone is playing to teach others sometimes they want to break the monotony especially if they are whooping anyway.

 

[Kimosabae]

What is this cult of self-responsibility bullshit that you guys keep parroting? As much as I preach about competitiveness in FGs, you really don't think I understand the importance of taking responsibility for failure? Attributing a loss to ignorance =/= off setting self-responsibility. It means I lost due to ignorance and that is my fault. That is just as potentially critical and true a conclusion as me losing due to being a "low-level" player, or more ambiguously, "bad". This is not me whining "You're not better than me, it's just your character!" as much as you'd like it to be.

 

[CountBlack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH6D0AOl860

for CountBlackule.

and Wow at Daigo beating Sako 3-2.


FGW| DaiGOAT

 

[Retro_]

If it's a casual set, then sure I agree. But if it's a FT10 or whatever, then you're already wasting the dude's time if he's up 8-nothing. Why not mess around if you know you're not gonna be affected by a couple of losses?

Because it demonstrates that you don't really care about the other player or the outcome of the match really.

That's how I would interpret it anyways. That you think so little of myself and our match that you're willing to literally throw games away to me because you still don't think I'll win with that handicap, or worse you don't even care if I win. You're already convinced that you are a far superior player

It's probably the most arrogant thing you can do in fighting games and is 100% disrespectful and discouraging to the other player.

Like it's pretty surprising to see a lot of the pro-new player/better tutorials people in here defend behavior that probably pushes them out more than anything else.

Sometimes fighting games aren't all about getting the W. They're about getting better and helping others get better so we all can have good matches. Just throwing games away when you're ahead just seems so shortsighted and selfish.(LOL AT LEAST IM HAVING FUN GIT GUUD SCRUB)

 

[QisTopTier]

This is not me whining "You're not better than me, it's just your character!" as much as you'd like it to be.

No one is saying that

 

[Sheroking]

Because it demonstrates that you don't really care about the other player or the outcome of the match really.

That's how I would interpret it anyways. That you think so little of myself and our match that you're willing to literally throw games away to me because you still don't think I'll win with that handicap

It's probably the most arrogant thing you can do in fighting games and is 100% disrespectful and discouraging to the other player.

Like it's pretty surprising to see a lot of the pro-new player better tutorials people in here defend behavior that probably pushes them out more than anything else.

It's the type of idiot pro-troll behavior that the FGC just loves that keeps the perception of us so low. Not everybody is in on the joke, and those who aren't feel disrespected for no reason.

Being worse at a video game is not a character flaw, being new is not a sin. Teach them, don't troll them.

Granted, this example isn't as bad as some.

 

[Dahbomb]

If you don't get exposed to variance then you will always lose to gimmicks and then you will still come on forums to complain about people switching their mains in a FT10 and it being a waste of your time.

Instead of complaining about bloated rosters you should be happy that a person plays multiple characters so you can learn multiple match ups quicker. Every fight is an opportunity to learn even if its someone of top level using his joke character on you.

 

[QisTopTier]

It's the type of idiot pro-troll behavior that the FGC just loves that keeps the perception of us so low. Not everybody is in on the joke, and those who aren't feel disrespected for no reason.

Being worse at a video game is not a character flaw, being new is not a sin. Teach them, don't troll them.

Granted, this example isn't as bad as some.

I'll teach in casuals

outside of that i'll say something after the set is over

 

[Karsticles]

I will switch after a while if I get bored. My game, my time, my choice. That said, if my opponent requests that I pick something, I will abide by that request. If someone leaves their main against me, I use that as a reflecting moment. Obviously, I need to play better. I need to play well enough to force them back to their main. That is on me.

Kimo is also right in that if I am losing a lot, it is often due to a lack of matchup knowledge. I am not offended by my opponent switching, but I wish they would stick around and body me so I can learn.

The only thing that really bothers me is teabagging. If someone does that, I will leave.

 

[Kimosabae]

No one is saying that

Then what do we disagree on, if it's not this?

If you don't get exposed to variance then you will always lose to gimmicks and then you will still come on forums to complain about people switching their mains in a FT10 and it being a waste of your time.

lol

Instead of complaining about bloated rosters you should be happy that a person plays multiple characters so you can learn multiple match ups quicker. Every fight is an opportunity to learn even if its someone of top level using his joke character on you.

Except that's not really how people learn things. If I have a friend, that plays multiple characters, that I can be exposed to a few times a week - that's ideal. Playing one player, once, that jumps around the character select screen, helps expose you to variance, yes, but does little in actually helping you deal with it.

You build a house by setting one brick at a time with deliberation. Not by dumping them all on site and then calling it a day.

 

[Retro_]

If you don't get exposed to variance then you will always lose to gimmicks and then you will still come on forums to complain about people switching their mains in a FT10 and it being a waste of your time.

Instead of complaining about bloated rosters you should be happy that a person plays multiple characters so you can learn multiple match ups quicker. Every fight is an opportunity to learn even if its someone of top level using his joke character on you.

You're not going to learn anything from someone just throwing out IKs and other random moves because they don't give a shit.

" If they hit I win another game, if they miss I'm already up 8 games so who cares."

There's nothing for the opponent to learn from you when you have that gameplan. You're not playing a new matchup you're just trying not to get trolled and embarrassed. It's the old school Dan option select.(If I lose who cares I picked Dan, if I win HAHAHAHA I JUST BEAT YOU WITH DAN)

If you're winning, then win. If you're up 8 games in a FT10 just close out those last two games, shake your opponents hand and ask if they want to play casuals against your other characters.

Even if a player is FAAAAR BENEATH YOUR POWER LEVEL they're still a person deserving of respect. Playing so transparently below your best is really not much different than what goes on in MOBA communities that are notorious for being toxic. Where mid level players create alt accounts to troll new players and make fun of them for not knowing any better.

 

[TheChits]

Always bring out your main chicken.

Spoiler

Always weird to go back and watch these videos and see how old they are. Felt like just yesterday

 

[Dahbomb]

Some people learn differently. Some people like being exposed to a bunch of things then absorbing it while others take it one at a time. Some people like to teach with multiple characters.

Look if you want people to keep using Mains to learn match ups that's fine, tell them to do so but don't think they are morally obligated to it. Because that's what it sounds like here... you are getting pissed because you are not getting the match up knowledge that you want in a casual setting.

 

[Passive Assassin]

Goddamn at Tokido vs Pugera. It was like watching AE 2012 all over again lol.

Rip pugera?

 

[Clawww]

'playing below your level' feels like a valid, almost Socratic, approach to facing someone worse than you. for instance, I might play disrespectfully against someone free by repeatedly doing plenty of wake-up DPs until they really punish it and make me not do it.

as for switching characters, if someones appears to have a good shot of closing the gap or actually learning (by putting a good fight and demonstrating fundamentals), then I'll stick with my main. if they're a punching bag I'll probably pick a character I need practice with.

 

[Dahbomb]

In my experience some people actually prefer to be taken easier in a match for learning purposes.

So it really varies from person to person if they want the best from a person or not. Actually it's a matter of ego more or less.

Yea trolling lower level players with alt characters is lame but that's not what we are talking about here. People have to realize that some people switch characters to break their own monotony or to learn themselves. Because *gasp* they want to have fun playing the game too. It's not an active disrespect.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Always bring out your main chicken.

Spoiler

Always weird to go back and watch these videos and see how old they are. Felt like just yesterday

Epitome of Dee Jay play

 

[Kimosabae]

Some people learn differently. Some people like being exposed to a bunch of things then absorbing it while others take it one at a time. Some people like to teach with multiple characters.

Please tell me; who learns by being exposed to "a bunch of things" once, in short intervals? Even subliminal messaging has to be used multiple times on a subject to promote conditioning. When you were going through medical, you were exposed to each subject of interest once and given a PHD? I don't think so.

Look if you want people to keep using Mains to learn match ups that's fine, tell them to do so but don't think they are morally obligated to it. Because that's what it sounds like here... you are getting pissed because you are not getting the match up knowledge that you want in a casual setting.

I'm getting pissed, because people keep thinking my originals statements are generated from me being pissed, which is clearly effecting how they're evaluating them. That's probably my fault, though. I do have a very direct tone on forums.

And I'm going to expand the topic of moral obligations in competitive circles. As I've alluded to Marz - if you're goal is to be competitive - then yes, you are morally obligated to elevate the level of play surrounding you, because that altruism will conform to that moral system. You could even apply biological kinship models to something like this, because obviously, if the entire population of competitors is elevated synchronously, it becomes a zero sum game.

If your goal is not to be competitive, then no, there is no moral obligation to help others.

as for switching characters, if someones appears to have a good shot of closing the gap or actually learning (by putting a good fight and demonstrating fundamentals), then I'll stick with my main. if they're a punching bag I'll probably pick a character I need practice with.

Exactly how I approach it.

 

[Retro_]

Yea trolling lower level players with alt characters is lame but that's not what we are talking about here. People have to realize that some people switch characters to break their own monotony or to learn themselves. Because *gasp* they want to have fun playing the game too. It's not an active disrespect.

It is though. This conversation started with Anne confronting Flux about his play in a FT10 exhibition where Flux deliberately played in a disrespectful way to the other player when he had a large lead.

Now I didn't see it, but I'm assuming that's what went down since Flux admitted to it and said he had apologized for it.

I think the use of reductio ad absurdum in here has confused the issue though, with people just thinking that OH SO CHANGING CHARACTERS IS DISRESPECTFUL NOW HUH like it's a race thread on Off-Topic

Bottom line, I don't think that just because it's a game rules for social interaction should cease to apply. Just stop and think for a second how the other player might interpret you switching on them right now before you just go ahead and do it.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Stick with your main or you're wasting my time. Most of the time, it's not that the person is generally much better at the game, I just don't know shit about the character they're playing. Especially nowadays, with all these bloated rosters

If you're not giving the person a chance to learn the matchup, then you don't really know where that person stands in relation to you if you're beating them. If they're generally scrubby - constant Reversals on wakeup, no optimized damage, no anti-airing, not teching obvious grab setups, etc. etc., then that's a little bit different, because as the clearly better player, you will get bored. But even still, you'd be helping that person a ton in improving if you introduced less variance into the set, regardless. I'd like to think that people would want to help others get better.

This so hard.

 

[CountBlack]

Man this whole page rn

 

[Infinite]

I see where retro and kimo are coming from. It's not always about the W.

 

[Village]

Stick with your main or you're wasting my time. Most of the time, it's not that the person is generally much better at the game, I just don't know shit about the character they're playing. Especially nowadays, with all these bloated rosters

If you're not giving the person a chance to learn the matchup, then you don't really know where that person stands in relation to you if you're beating them. If they're generally scrubby - constant Reversals on wakeup, no optimized damage, no anti-airing, not teching obvious grab setups, etc. etc., then that's a little bit different, because as the clearly better player, you will get bored. But even still, you'd be helping that person a ton in improving if you introduced less variance into the set, regardless. I'd like to think that people would want to help others get better.

I just choose whoever I think is fun at the time because its a video game.

 

[QisTopTier]

Personally I dont even play serious with my main. I scale up or down depending on the other player

 

[Kimosabae]

I just choose whoever I think is fun at the time because its a video game.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[Dahbomb]

To the question Kimo posted, I personally learn better when exposed to a bunch of things at the start especially when I am very new to the game. After I am seasoned enough in the game then I do specific learning. I guess from your context you are talking in a far more competitive context in which case I am more inclined to agree.

I don't know what brought up this conversation to begin with or the context. I honestly don't care much either way because today is my birthday and just going to chill.

If you guys see me in the future on Tekken 7 and I switch characters please know that I am NOT trolling or disrespecting you. If you want me to just use a specific character then just ask but just don't be unreasonable (play me FT100 with Jin only).

 

[mbpm1]

Personally I dont even play serious with my main. I scale up or down depending on the other player

This is true.

If I want to play someone again to learn the matchup and they switch a lot I usually just don't play them again.

 

[Master Milk]

I don't know what brought up this conversation to begin with or the context.

Hilarious.

Anyway, Smash is this week.

I only have Q added on Wii U

I need everyone else

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I see where retro and kimo are coming from. It's not always about the W.

Indeed. I see both sides, and what I will say is that I don't think there's one universal rule to this. Everyone's different, and I think if you want someone to play in a certain way during a set—whether it's sticking to their main or stop fooling around—just ask them, instead of silently brooding about it. I don't think anyone necessarily has the obligation to teach another in an FT10, but if that's how the opponent wants to approach it, then requesting it from the other player would get them what they want.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

What is this talk of moral obligations. There is none. You teach people to improve your competition because it's faster than to wait for them to figure it out. It makes sense and you benefit from it. No need to make it sound less selfish than it actually is.

 

[mbpm1]

What is this talk of moral obligations. There is none. You teach people to improve your competition because it's faster than to wait for them to figure it out. It makes sense and you benefit from it. No need to make it sound less selfish than it actually is.

But winniiiiing

 

[Kimosabae]

To the question Kimo posted, I personally learn better when exposed to a bunch of things at the start especially when I am very new to the game. After I am seasoned enough in the game then I do specific learning. I guess from your context you are talking in a far more competitive context in which case I am more inclined to agree.

Oh, so you learn like most everyone else, then?


http://www.human-memory.net/types_long.html

I don't know what brought up this conversation to begin with or the context. I honestly don't care much either way because today is my birthday and just going to chill.

Happy birfday, nukka.

If I had photoshop skills, I'd get you a Gucci Belt for your avatar.

What is this talk of moral obligations. There is none. You teach people to improve your competition because it's faster than to wait for them to figure it out. It makes sense and you benefit from it. No need to make it sound less selfish than it actually is.

Exactly. That's why it's a moral obligation in the competitive context. I'm just being psuedo-intellectual-hipster about it.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

But winniiiiing

You can teach people and still whoop their ass anyway. Hell that's how it goes most of the time.

 

[Laconic]

Thank goodness GG Xrd is coming out soon.

A game with a robust, yet reasonably sized roster?

Yes, please.

 

[K.Sabot]

I assume most of you guys are going to pick up xrd on PS3. I will at least.

barring some sort of technical disaster that causes the game to desync from ps4 version.

 

[mbpm1]

You can teach people and still whoop their ass anyway. Hell that's how it goes most of the time.

I admit that I know this is true but I still like to see how many times I can make somebody fall for the same setup lol

 

[Onemic]

Stick with your main or you're wasting my time. Most of the time, it's not that the person is generally much better at the game, I just don't know shit about the character they're playing. Especially nowadays, with all these bloated rosters

If you're not giving the person a chance to learn the matchup, then you don't really know where that person stands in relation to you if you're beating them. If they're generally scrubby - constant Reversals on wakeup, no optimized damage, no anti-airing, not teching obvious grab setups, etc. etc., then that's a little bit different, because as the clearly better player, you will get bored. But even still, you'd be helping that person a ton in improving if you introduced less variance into the set, regardless. I'd like to think that people would want to help others get better.

I've said this before, but I really don't think this is true in the FGC's case.(Or more specifically non-Japanese FGC) I mean this general conversation has already sort of proved that.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I assume most of you guys are going to pick up xrd on PS3. I will at least.

I'm part of the 1% right here. My HRAP V4 came a couple of days ago, so I'm ready for it. I'm not one of the truly few who are going to import the game this time, though.