Fighting Games Weekly | Nov 17-23 | Settle it in Smash

Is Makoto a grappler? She have a bad throw(~9 frames, no throw invincibility, ex is 5 with armor, all versions have bad range compared to proper grapplers). But she get most of her damage from either her grapp or people being too terrified of her grapp to block.

Also, flame Iori in KoFXIII can dish out more damage after his command grap than any other grappler in the game, execution aside, if you get grapped by him, you die. Is he a grappler?
 
Is Makoto a grappler? She have a bad throw(~9 frames, no throw invincibility, ex is 5 with armor, all versions have bad range compared to proper grapplers). But she get most of her damage from either her grapp or people being too terrified of her grapp to block.

Also, flame Iori in KoFXIII can dish out more damage after his command grap than any other grappler in the game, execution aside, if you get grapped by him, you die. Is he a grappler?

The grab itself is the damage, not what goes next. Yun is not a grappler, as an example.
 
Grappler usually means "derives most of his/her damage from throws".

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say "derives damage primarily either from throws or from punishing opponents' attempts to evade/avoid said throws"?

I'm just happy the "what is a grappler?" discussion is something that hasn't already been discussed to death in some incarnation of this thread! It would be interesting to expand it and have a more general discussion about character playstyle archetypes, etc.
 
3s makoto is def a grappler imo as so much of her game revolves around karakusa. Dno bout sf4 mak she seems more like a burst damage mix up character...real setup based.
 
FChamp's grandmother passed away during Absolute Battle. He still had the heart to finish the tournament before going home. Condolences to him. I know he loved his grandmother very much. Part of the reason he does what he does is for her.
RIP to his grandmother. from the stories he told she was basically like his mom so he must be hurting bad.
 
So I decided to rewatch the Justin v Yipes comeback.

Props to whoever made that video, it never occurred to me before but the intro track is totally some Pizzicato Five. Every so often FGC has some awesome taste in music. That's up there with the EVO trailer that uses Saul Williams
 
Very sad about Champ GM, I hope he'll be fine.

Bah, I'm always too late to the Xrd discussion. Thomasorus covered all the important I-No points I think.

I want to say though that Ogawa's tier list has a pretty obvious bias, in that I-No has historically been a troublesome matchup for Zato/Eddie. The other Japanese players do not rate her quite as highly.

I don't know that I could argue that I-No has been buffed in the new version though. Don't get me wrong, I am going to love the YRC's and the buffs to her FDC hopping (that's plinking from her jump D to green-block without getting burst to stall her air momentum, which I already abuse in +R despite the landing recovery), but it's still coming at the cost of: her double-airdash; her slightly-longer +R limbs; her amazing Force-Breaks; the extended reach of the Horizontal Chemical Love beam (relative to screen size); the combos off of dives; the old, more-invincible and persistent Longing Desperation; and the rush of the HCL FRC combos. (Okay, I don't expect any other Gaffers to feel me on that last point, but work with me here!)

What really does it for I-No in Xrd is that Axl's been neutered, and there's no Jam, Robo-Ky, Order-Sol or Bridget.

I already miss the rush of the HCL FRC combos. It was a great feeling doing it and I know it's stupid but when a game rewards you something so hard to do with a great feeling, you'd like to keep it. Also I'm glad I'm not the only one that though HCL was going less far.

That's terrible to hear. I don't know if I could sit there playing after hearing that news.

What makes Potemkin bad/not fun i n this game? I thought he was good in previous games.

In all games potemkin has the Slide head, and this move makes an imblocable ground wave that makes you fall on the ground for a long period of time and potemkin used his charge move to come closer, canceling the attacking part of the move to be able to pressure you right after. So the basic pressure outside of classic jump mixup was on the ground to pressure and once you were too far or end your blockstring, you could do things like anti air grab, charge move cancel to grab or charge move to catch a backdash. It was very... basic I guess?
What makes FAB so great with him was that FAB was Instant Blocking almost ANYTHING a player used. Since in #R you didn't have a parry mechanic from block, people were always doing the same blockstrings whithout thinking about it. FAB used this to gain a lot of meter and knowing when he should IB throw or IB anti-projectile in blockstrings. His potemkin is a monster.

If you want to get a grip of the character, watch this Ogawa vs FAB : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0dhWzbUnqg

In AC, the slide head and the charge move were changed. The slide head works the same BUT you can combo out of it. It's like a classic OTG in MVC3 you see? To compensate, the charge move reach was reduced a lot, like from fullscreen to mid screen so you can't come closer if you did the slide head from the other side of the screen.

In AC he also had a few changes. Before AC his main throw, the potemkin buster, could lead to a combo in the corner only. But in AC, they added an FRC at the end of the throw so you could had a basic cr.S that vaccumed and an air throw and get a hard knockdown. You would then do the old mixups except that... The slide head became a valid mixup option since it's unblockable. You just had to make your opponent fear the anti-air grab, do a blickstring that put you out of range from the move hitting with Potem's body and the groundwave would make anybody fall. They reversed the slidehead and buster FRC in +R in exchange of better combos in neutral.

There's a lot of things more (air forcebreak potemkin buster :'D) but it was also the addition of Slashback that helped him, like all characters that had to deal with dumb pressure like Eddie. Basically the Slashback, being a parry you can do from guard, is what permitted Arc to buff characters in incredible ways and make the game so fun without it being broken. Since everyone had a parry you had to change your offense and you could not repeat the same stupid "you can't get out" blockstrings. But the parry is not an essential part of the game as it's harder to do than in 3S and there's a miss animation. :)

Also watch this combo movie from Fab, Abegen and other players featuring mad combos and impractical setups : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIWgMbRbVLY
 
Yoooo Guilty Gear XRD !


lL2Lyey.gif
 
How similar is Zato in reload to Zato in Xrd

Basically the same character. Some moves are better, some worse (ie. flight for example). He has new neutral game options with puddle summon etc. Less unblockables though, you have to actually do mixups more nowadays. Apart from the nerfed flight I very much like what's done to him.

And #R approximates Xrd very well. You can watch Ogawa do stuff in Xrd, crib it to #reload and it'll Just Work with obvious new move exceptions and the 3rd hit of heavy slash being cancelable. #R you have to do like 2P cS 5HS(2) xx 22S, Xrd you can just do 2P cS 5HS(3) xx 22H and it combos.
 
Yoooo Guilty Gear XRD !

Part 3: In Network Mode, you can designate a default character to be automatically selected in matches, bypassing character select and letting you get to the match faster.
Part 4: You can join an Online Lobby and a Player Match Room at the same time, and switch between them and the main menu with the L2 and R2 buttons.
Part 5: Replays can be saved during online and offline matches. These replays can then be shared through the Replay Theater with other players.
Part 6: Network delay is showed to players in real-time, measured in frames.

lL2Lyey.gif

SICK. This is how you do a good product folks.
 
you know ps3 usf4 is dead when im 1k bp get matched against a 13k bp balrog which is ranked number 8 on psn

#justpsnthings

edit:asked him for a runback and he didnt respond
 
you know ps3 usf4 is dead when im 1k bp get matched against a 13k bp balrog which is ranked number 8 on psn

#justpsnthings

edit:asked him for a runback and he didnt respond

How is it dead theres like hundreds of people on every time I get on.


And those online features for Xrd are impressive. Hopefully this game has a large, healthy community for many years to come.
 
Thanks for the insight on everything, Thom. It's been really fun going through your posts about the game and its previous iterations.

Yoooo Guilty Gear XRD !

This is prettttyy great. Especially like the live notification of what the frame delay is at as well as the Lobby/Player match connectivity. Now I can find my crazy high level lobbies and pepper them with player matches in between. Hype.

you know ps3 usf4 is dead when im 1k bp get matched against a 13k bp balrog which is ranked number 8 on psn

#justpsnthings

edit:asked him for a runback and he didnt respond

If USF4 is dead on PS3 then what does that make every other fighting game on the console? Have you experienced the vicious anime cycle? You know nothing of dead games.

/survivor of post week 1 Skullgirls.
 
Disco: my pleasure!

Didn't Q also rely on his grab a lot? I might be misremembering.

Thanks! This was a good read. Willing to do one for Robo-Ky? :D

You should not take characters from SF3 as examples for this debate to be honest. As Viscant explained since SF3 has a parry mechanic that counter/weakens attacks but not throws, you have to give characters more things to open the guard and the throws are a simple way of doing it. Q and Makoto are more characters relying on offense, "coups d'éclat" and big damage that grapplers.


As for ROBO-KY it's a bit special as the character didn't changed so much. He was very, very strong in #R as it was his first apparition as a complete character and not just a skin for Ky. I know him a bit less than other characters but here we go.
So you may know that ROBO-Ky has a différent tension bar. Each special move use it like Hakumen uses orbs in BB. Except that RKY can place a field below his foot that charge the battery. He also has a special throw that steals tension and some moves like the charge taunt are doing the same. He also has a heat jauge and when he uses some of the best moves like the missiles, he heats up and explode if you don't use the 6HS to put out the heat.

In #R he was very strong for many reasons but mostly because he could do a lot of damage. His stand HS comes out fast and has a FRC point. You can HS FRC, dash, HS FRC and then air combo. The missiles on the ground acts like the big stun edge of ky but in the air if you have battery, he rocket punch and each finger becomes a search missile and they are hard to avoid, lock you down very well and do big damage. The fact he has a low standing kick like ky but lacks the good ranged sweep of ky. The standing S is also way shorter but comes out faster, he has a very useful slide and his air normals are NUTS like the air S that bounce in CH.
Oh and he has a DP that is not that good but if you land it and you have meter, it transforms into a super. And you can taunt on the ground to delay your wakeup. And you can break your limiter, gaining unlimited battery but you end up electrocuted and helpless. That character was so fun. :3 One of the best Robo Ky from this period is Arisaka who made the +R version. Watch him beat a lot of people : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_dxnCUONxo

So in #R he was a power tank with good neutral, good damage, good normal, good specials. In Slash they nerfed him a lot, making him heat way too fast and lowering his damage output.
In AC he was a kind of fair and balance character like Venom. It was little changes like the air HS that wallstick you in CH, he gained classic things like being able to FRC his throw and instead of doing HS FRC combos, you try to go to the corner so you can missile loop. He also was a bit more subtle in my memories. In neutral his normals in CH were crazy like the stand P or the stand S could lead to big damage because of the horse move that catch you right after. The fact that being in the danger heat zone gave you new properties to your normals was also cool because it changes combos and

In AC he also gained a forcebreak where he flies a bit. It's used mainly as a tool to do better mixups from the air, cancel normal moves into a short recovery move that gives you momentum. So you can for example finish a combo with air Dust, cancel it with the forcebreak to catch up with your opponent and throw him when he recovers in the air.
In +R he didn't changed much except for being more rewarded when you are in heat. I think his cr.HS missile now comes back on earth after being launched. Basically the character changed from an powerhouse to a more subtle character as time passed. A friend in France played a good R.Ky when AC was out and I had the feeling that instead of getting beaten to death like in #R, I was facing a fucking wall as the character is very good with normals.
If you want a good AC RoboKy, check Dogura matchs : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0YMla3rd8c
 
Yoooo Guilty Gear XRD !

Even if I had not already been getting the game I would feel pretty compelled to do so just to support developers offering this kind of support. I feel like online play is going to be one of the most significant deciding factors for me going forward on whether or not I bother picking up new fighting games.
 
Didn't Q also rely on his grab a lot? I might be misremembering.
No where near Makoto though, less than Yun's even. He get decent damage and a free taunt, which is nice, but not enough to scare other players into respecting it and it's slower than Karakusa even, it's mainly to deal with turtling and parry fishing. In Makoto's case, you don't want to fight a SA2 Makoto in her half of the screen because a single stray parry > Karakusa > SA2 could end the round.
 
Huh, the one I saw had Faust pin some eyebrows on Pot. So the IK actually plays out differently too, wow. Arcsys you so crazy.

Edit: Oh the Media Create thread is up and DFC waifu fighter sold like 6 times more copies than UNIEL.
Vita and PS3 sales combined.
 
3s makoto is def a grappler imo as so much of her game revolves around karakusa. Dno bout sf4 mak she seems more like a burst damage mix up character...real setup based.

Yeah, in 3S if you jumped to evade the karakusa, she'd recover before you came back down. And since backdashes weren't godlike in 3S like they are in SF4, there were very few good options to get away from her when she was on you for most characters.

No where near Makoto though, less than Yun's even. He get decent damage and a free taunt, which is nice, but not enough to scare other players into respecting it and it's slower than Karakusa even, it's mainly to deal with turtling and parry fishing. In Makoto's case, you don't want to fight a SA2 Makoto in her half of the screen because a single stray parry > Karakusa > SA2 could end the round.

Yeah, for a command throw to work, your opponent has to be afraid to push a button, which is kind of hard to do with Q's normals.
 
Interview with SFII's producer - now he's behind Monster Strike - includes why he never wants to go back to consoles.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...Is_producer_will_never_return_to_consoles.php

this is a really interesting interview. could be it's own thread.

YO: What I really enjoy about making mobile games is that you're much closer to the user. Especially with what we do in Monster Strike -- we have rotating events. The events have to be played in the time that they're available -- so it brings the community together all at one time.

So, we're all inside the office playing together with real-time users, and it creates a situation where you can get a bird's eye view of, "Okay, these people on Twitter aren't happy about this thing," "These people really enjoy this thing," and because it's not a big, bloated triple-A game, you can actually make real-time changes based on this feedback. And so we get to see the users enjoy the game in real-time, and that's what we really like about that.
 
If you want a good AC RoboKy, check Dogura matchs : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0YMla3rd8c

Thanks for taking the time to write that!

No where near Makoto though, less than Yun's even. He get decent damage and a free taunt, which is nice, but not enough to scare other players into respecting it and it's slower than Karakusa even, it's mainly to deal with turtling and parry fishing. In Makoto's case, you don't want to fight a SA2 Makoto in her half of the screen because a single stray parry > Karakusa > SA2 could end the round.

Yeah, his grab was pretty slow.
 
FChamp's grandmother passed away during Absolute Battle. He still had the heart to finish the tournament before going home. Condolences to him. I know he loved his grandmother very much. Part of the reason he does what he does is for her.

Yeah, he wanted to wait till after the tournament to announce it as he didn't want people heckling him about it and I can understand why. The FGC can be pretty cruel sometimes.
 
Yeah, he wanted to wait till after the tournament to announce it as he didn't want people heckling him about it and I can understand why. The FGC can be pretty cruel sometimes.

Condolences to him and RIP to his grandmother.

But why would he need to announce it? To the FGC? Seems like personal business I would keep to myself, and if my friends told somebody and then somebody else, then so be it.
 
Yeah, he wanted to wait till after the tournament to announce it as he didn't want people heckling him about it and I can understand why. The FGC can be pretty cruel sometimes.

How would really be that low to heckle him about his dead grandmother?
 
Sorry, I'm new to fighting games. What does Bullshit/Honest mean in this context?

Bullshit is more like crazy mix up and skewed risk/reward.

Honest means they're a bit more straightforward and won't put you in heavy guessing situations.
 
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