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[Deleted member 17706]

With all of the downgrade-tons we've seen in recent years, it takes a special kind of blind fan mentality to use unreleased games like The Order and Uncharted 4 as any kind of evidence for graphical prowess.

 

[Putty]

Aren't you looking for bells and whistles in games like The Order or UC4? I think so.

Of course. I'd wager either of the 2 games you mention won't have horrendous performance issues.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Right now, in term of "how incredible this graphics looks" DriveClub is superior to AC Unity.

You (Veteran_FX) are very, very passionate about this game and this is nice, I respect that ... really, but I think you need to be a little bit more objective ... well, just saying ...

I feel that he's being very objective in that he's actually pointing out the unprecedented graphical techniques being used in the game that set it above everything else currently available.

 

[Putty]

I feel that he's being very objective in that he's actually pointing out the unprecedented graphical techniques being used in the game that set it above everything else currently available.

I'll give him that. It's also unprecedented in how it performs.

 

[LastNac]

From what we've seen so far -- it is. Prove me otherwise with the current footage. I don't know about footage that's not been released yet.




Disagree. I'm not sold on playing a QTE game and calling that realtime graphics. Sorry. I need as much control as possible.

From what I've played it isn't.

Also, I'm not talking about the branching "QTE'S" either when I am talking about consistent interaction.

 

[Crossing Eden]

the game was downgraded on consoles were it runs like shit.

It's no surprise that the game look good on PC.

This is the first footage of the game running on console, specifically xb1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32NLNaz6R_c
Now compare that to the final release. It wasn't downgraded, the console version just doesn't look as good as pc, which was what they used for the e3 and gamescom demo. Which like you said, isn't surprising.

 

[Loofy]

Yes. Because they would do the exact same things as the devs now. Turn on all the bells and whistles (i.e. supersampling, tessellation, AF 16x, push for 60fps, and UHD res). Don't think for a second that a GTX980 powered PS4 would give you film quality graphics with ray-tracing and true SSS. We aren't there yet.

-M

You might wanna head over to the AC Unity performance thread. A 980 struggles with 60fps at 1080p, without AA.

 

[MickeyKnox]

Yes, you can. All you need to do is to lock these games at 30fps, i.e. the same fps as most console games anyway.

Fucking rad man, I stand corrected.

What kind of hardware setup do you have?

 

[VFX_Veteran]

Of course. I'd wager either of the 2 games you mention won't have horrendous performance issues.

Probably will most likely dip below 30fps in some scenes (like we've seen already). In fact, ND will go back on their promise of 60fps and make UC4 be 30fps. You heard it here first! There is no way they'll make the game look any kind of competition (graphically) at 60fps @ 1080p.

 

[Jtrizzy]

Sorry to go ot but since we are talking about Star Citizen, what do you get if you buy a ship? Do you fly around or just walk around the hangar? I don't really understand, but I'd like to see it if it's cool. I'm tempted to pick up Ryse just to see it on my 970 too, but with ACU, DAI, FC4, and Smash, I should probably hold off.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Probably will most likely dip below 30fps in some scenes (like we've seen already). In fact, ND will go back on their promise of 60fps and make UC4 be 30fps. You heard it here first! There is no way they'll make the game look any kind of competition (graphically) at 60fps @ 1080p.

It may be a bayonetta 2 type situation where certain situations cause it to drop into the 40s, possibly with a 30fps lock option like in Last of Us and Infamous. I don't think they'll fully drop it to a 30fps target.

 

[JordanN]

For me The Order is automatic loser, because of lack of Parallax Occlusion Mapping or Tessellation.
If game wants to be on top chain in terms of tech, it needs those features.

I think tessellation is overrated.
Outside of some scenarios, I'm not seeing what makes it a must have. It's mostly a gimmick feature when shown in games.

I also see it as a stop gap. Even if a game has it, it wont be used on everything. So you'll still see the occasional low poly tree branch or blocky house that IMO, takes you out of the immersion.

I rather wait for the next big leap that solves the polygon problem like Infinite Detail.

 

[KKRT00]

Sorry to go ot but since we are talking about Star Citizen, what do you get if you buy a ship? Do you fly around or just walk around the hangar? I don't really understand, but I'd like to see it if it's cool.

Read FAQ here:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/module/arena-commander

 

[Crossing Eden]

I think tessellation is overrated.
Outside of some scenarios, I'm not seeing what makes it a must have. It's mostly a gimmick feature when shown in games.

I also see it as a stop gap. Even if a game has it, it wont be used on everything. So you'll still see the occasional low poly tree branch or blocky house that IMO, takes you out of the immersion.

I rather wait for the next big leap that solves the polygon problem like Infinite Detail.

Lol I thought that was a screenshot of the game for a second. What game or demo is that?

 

[XxRampage07xX]

Probably will most likely dip below 30fps in some scenes (like we've seen already). In fact, ND will go back on their promise of 60fps and make UC4 be 30fps. You heard it here first! There is no way they'll make the game look any kind of competition (graphically) at 60fps @ 1080p.

Oh come on man! You haven't even seen the game. Why are you trying so hard to downplay it?

 

[Durante]

I feel that he's being very objective in that he's actually pointing out the unprecedented graphical techniques being used in the game that set it above everything else currently available.

And that's the point most people arguing against him are missing.

 

[JordanN]

Lol I thought that was a screenshot of the game for a second. What game or demo is that?

It's Euclideon previewing their point cloud tech + 3D scanning environments

 

[VFX_Veteran]

You might wanna head over to the AC Unity performance thread. A 980 struggles with 60fps at 1080p, without AA.

Oh , I know. I'm speaking of games in general. AC:U is taxing.. everyone knows that. What is the basis of argument is addressing the comments that ND can somehow surpass this game's graphical prowess and still manage 60fps on hardware that's several orders of magnitude weaker than the highest end PC hardware.

 

[Sanpei]

Any news about patch ? When will it be available ?

 

[VFX_Veteran]

Oh come on man! You haven't even seen the game. Why are you trying so hard to downplay it?

Not downplaying it at all. I'm a realist. If you want good visuals, you gotta pay for it somehow. I think you guys are expecting miracles from ND -- which can clearly lead to big disappointment. ND doesn't have any edge over pushing the hardware any more than say Crytek, DICE or Sucker Punch. They are a great team that has come up with excellent single player games. They also have an extremely talented art team that knows how materials, light and shadow work. That's a big advantage.. but other companies have the same.

TLOU was an incredible experience for me. The tech was clearly last gen, but the art made it still hold up this generation. I expect more of that for UC4.

 

[Crossing Eden]

It's Euclideon previewing their point cloud tech + 3D scanning environments

Apparently two games in 2015 are using this tech...holy shit.. ._.

 

[VFX_Veteran]

It may be a bayonetta 2 type situation where certain situations cause it to drop into the 40s, possibly with a 30fps lock option like in Last of Us and Infamous. I don't think they'll fully drop it to a 30fps target.

Probably.... but they certainly aren't going to keep a 60fps target and have visuals like that trailer we saw.

 

[KKRT00]

I think tessellation is overrated.
Outside of some scenarios, I'm not seeing what makes it a must have. It's mostly a gimmick feature.

I also see it as a stop gap. Even if a game has it, it wont be used on everything. So you'll still see the occasional low poly tree branch or blocky house that IMO, takes you out of the immersion.

I rather wait for the next big leap that solves the polygon problem like Infinite Detail.

I beg to differ. The difference is enormous when games use PoM or Tessellation

Tessellation

Parallax Occlusion Mapping

No Tessellation/PoM

 

[Loofy]

Oh , I know. I'm speaking of games in general. AC:U is taxing.. everyone knows that. What is the basis of argument is addressing the comments that ND can somehow surpass this game's graphical prowess and still manage 60fps on hardware that's several orders of magnitude weaker than the highest end PC hardware.

I think NDs game will look better than anything on PC when it comes out...

 

[VFX_Veteran]

I think tessellation is overrated.
Outside of some scenarios, I'm not seeing what makes it a must have. It's mostly a gimmick feature when shown in games.

That's nonsense. We use displacement maps liberally. Every studio I've been to does. It's not going away. Why spend all that time having a modeler take over the role of the surfacer when the surfacer knows exactly what he wants with the textures he paints?

I also see it as a stop gap. Even if a game has it, it wont be used on everything. So you'll still see the occasional low poly tree branch or blocky house that IMO, takes you out of the immersion.

That is true and I agree with that. But I think that's the limitation of hardware today.

-M

 

[SaberEdge]

It's official. I'm getting Ryse for the PC this xmas. Even if it has crappy gameplay. The characters are indeed more detailed in gameplay than I've seen -- and that includes AC:U.

It really is very impressive on PC. It's a pretty decent game too. Before Unity came out I played through the game and came to the firm conclusion that it was the best looking game so far. I do believe that ACU is a bit more visually impressive, though, not even taking into consideration its scale. I'm talking about just something simple like walking down a street in ACU vs walking down a street in Ryse...I simply find ACU has a stronger visual impact in more places than Ryse does.

 

[Moral Panic]

This image sums up a major thing that REALLY annoys me in modern VG lighting solutions. It's the middle of the day, it's bright outside, the doors and windows are open.
WHY THE HELL IS IT SO DARK.

 

[VFX_Veteran]

I think NDs game will look better than anything on PC when it comes out...

And this statement is why I keep responding to this thread..

 

[Crossing Eden]

This image sums up a major thing that REALLY annoys me in modern VG lighting solutions. It's the middle of the day, it's bright outside, the doors and windows are open.
WHY THE HELL IS IT SO DARK.

Presumably because the only thing they had for light sources aside from the sun was fire. Some houses are quite dark during the day without a lot of light coming in. Although that does look darker than it would be IRL.

 

[Durante]

This image sums up a major thing that REALLY annoys me in modern VG lighting solutions. It's the middle of the day, it's bright outside, the doors and windows are open.
WHY THE HELL IS IT SO DARK.

Partially that's because games try to recreate a camera and not our eyes. Try to take a picture with a camera of a similar scene and report back

 

[XxRampage07xX]

Not downplaying it at all. I'm a realist. If you want good visuals, you gotta pay for it somehow. I think you guys are expecting miracles from ND -- which can clearly lead to big disappointment. ND doesn't have any edge over pushing the hardware any more than say Crytek, DICE or Sucker Punch. They are a great team that has come up with excellent single player games. They also have an extremely talented art team that knows how materials, light and shadow work. That's a big advantage.. but other companies have the same.

TLOU was an incredible experience for me. The tech was clearly last gen, but the art made it still hold up this generation. I expect more of that for UC4.

But as ND achieved this graphics level on an extremely ancient and weak PS3

And given that the PS4 is much more powerful than the PS3, I have faith in ND.

 

[VFX_Veteran]

This image sums up a major thing that REALLY annoys me in modern VG lighting solutions. It's the middle of the day, it's bright outside, the doors and windows are open.
WHY THE HELL IS IT SO DARK.

It's not. It actually has the best indoor lighting of any game. Mimicking global illumination light bounce very accurately (since it's been pre-baked). You are probably looking at a screen where the game is in the middle of a dynamic exposure change since you are closer to the door outside.

 

[flipswitch]

This image sums up a major thing that REALLY annoys me in modern VG lighting solutions. It's the middle of the day, it's bright outside, the doors and windows are open.
WHY THE HELL IS IT SO DARK.

HDR Most likely?

 

[VFX_Veteran]

Partially that's because games try to recreate a camera and not our eyes. Try to take a picture with a camera of a similar scene and report back

Thank you!

 

[Kezen]

I think NDs game will look better than anything on PC when it comes out...

I don't think so. There will be some magnificent multiplats on PC (Batman AK, The Division). I don't see UC4 getting close to that (at near or max settings of course).

 

[VFX_Veteran]

Welcome Kezen! You missed a lot of talk today!

 

[jacksepticeye]

This image sums up a major thing that REALLY annoys me in modern VG lighting solutions. It's the middle of the day, it's bright outside, the doors and windows are open.
WHY THE HELL IS IT SO DARK.

Because you're looking out the door and the HDR(?) kicks in. Turn and face the interior and it's MUCH brighter. As Duurante said, it's more copying camera effects than it is real eyeballs

 

[Moral Panic]

Partially that's because games try to recreate a camera and not our eyes. Try to take a picture with a camera of a similar scene and report back

I guessed it was something like that. But in a game aren't you supposed to think you are the character!? It's completely baffling to me especially with other games that take this even further with chromatic abberation and other ridiculously ugly lens/image effects. I don't understand this trend at all and the sooner it goes away the better.

 

[JordanN]

I beg to differ. The difference is enormous when games use PoM or Tessellation

I remember when early Xbox 360 games would use POM. They looked nice but a lot of the overall geometry looked like slightly better PS2/Xbox games.

The later games on PS3/360 dropped POM but much of the environment and character detail increased by a lot.

So while these current screenshots make it look like a big improvement, I think the later games we see on PS4/XBO will still look better. As we see, there will be a lot more complex shaders used to render more realistic objects and surface detail.

 

[Durante]

I don't really understand this argument between tesselation and more geometry.

Tesselation is ultimately simply an efficient way to generate more detailed geometry.

 

[danwarb]

I guessed it was something like that. But in a game aren't you supposed to think you are the character!? It's completely baffling to me especially with other games that take this even further with chromatic abberation and other ridiculously ugly lens/image effects. I don't understand this trend at all and the sooner it goes away the better.

It won't go away because our eyes work in much the same way. You'd just avoid looking at the over bright outside for too long and adapt to the indoor lighting.

Camera is pointed at the door there. A problem is you that can look around inside while the camera adapts to the outdoor light. VR won't even save us without pupil tracking.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I don't think so. There will be some magnificent multiplats on PC (Batman AK, The Division). I don't see UC4 getting close to that (at near or max settings of course).

Uncharted 4 will have to look like the best game ever to beat Arkham Knight on PC. If last year's e3 demo is any indication. And it's open world as well. Hopefully they've been working on the ps4/xb1 build and sorted out the reported framerate issues.

 

[Shredderi]

And this statement is why I keep responding to this thread..

Don't make it your mission to convert the people who say that. You'll just burn yourself out. Only two weeks until the playstation experience where we are supposed to see more of UC4.

 

[Dictator93]

Apparently two games in 2015 are using this tech...holy shit.. ._.

I doubt that. THre are so many feasavbility problems with it.

Not including the fact that it lacks real time lighting on surfaces it uses purely photometric stuff (like in that image).

 

[Kezen]

Uncharted 4 will have to look like the best game ever to beat Arkham Knight on PC. If last year's e3 demo is any indication. And it's open world as well. Hopefully they've been working on the ps4/xb1 build and sorted out the reported framerate issues.

I agree.
Batman AK is the most impressive game I've ever seen so far, I have no doubt the game will run well on consoles but corners will have to be cut somewhere.
The PC version will have more advanced effects courtesy of a partnership with Nvidia.

It's going to melt eyeballs at max PC settings. Ryse will have some competition.

 

[delta25]

Why do most PC gamers always default to good art direction any time consoles and good graphics get mentioned in the same sentence. I mean I understand that technologically speaking PC gaming is always going to take the cake in regards to raw technical horsepower, but that's not to say consoles are completely void of being able to push amazing visual tech themselves. In the case of games like the Order and uncharted, I'm pretty damn sure both games are pushing some pretty amazing tech and not just completely driving by a some superb art direction to help carry the visuals.

 

[ninjablade]

But as ND achieved this graphics level on an extremely ancient and weak PS3

And given that the PS4 is much more powerful than the PS3, I have faith in ND.

its crazy how this still looks great today.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I doubt that. THre are so many feasavbility problems with it.

Not including the fact that it lacks real time lighting on surfaces it uses purely photometric stuff (like in that image).

I'll just leave it up to the devs to decide how to implement it.

I agree.
Batman AK is the most impressive game I've ever seen so far, I have no doubt the game will run well on consoles but corners will have to be cut somewhere.
The PC version will have more advanced effects courtesy of a partnership with Nvidia.

It's going to melt eyeballs at max PC settings. Ryse will have some competition.

It's gonna look so good. And probably will be a GOTY nominee. Can't wait for the tech analysis.

 

[Vizzeh]

I am actually curious in the ability of current PC hardware, I own a 980GTX @1510mhz 7480mhz + 4790k - 4x @4.7ghz. AC: U when maxed out seems to push the hell out of it and its a fairly high-spec system. I get 55-60+ fps in most area's at Max settings and 4x MSAA (also +MLAA etc)

Game looks nearly photorealistic at some places, it is quite impressive, but high-end hardware right now being pushed so hard is already having me consider another 980GTX in SLI with in mind of what may come in 2015/2016.

 

[Naminator]

I think NDs game will look better than anything on PC when it comes out...

Certain people still think that UC3 looks better than anything on the PC, so there is absolutely no surprise that they will think that UC4 looks better than any game ever until UC5 or another ND game.