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[Masked Man]

One more week to go...

We must be strong, my Smash Brother! Only a little longer! D:

120 challenges done, 20 agonizing ones left, haha. I used one golden hammer on the "clear All-Star on Hard with everyone" challenge as I hate grindfests, but now that I've done All-Star on Hard with eight characters (including Duck Hunt, who has an amazing f-smash) I'm kind of sad that I used that hammer. It's a very doable challenge once you know the levels well and you know how to read the AI; it just takes a while to complete.

I love my DH squad, but I've had pretty mixed results with F-Smash. If the opponent puts up their shield once the move activates, they can block the last, most powerful hit. Granted, if they shield and release too early, the last hit alone can deliver some solid knockback, but still.

 

[Poltergust]

The samus one is so damn annoying because you can't just quickly restart due to how the mode works, but at the same time a 100 chain isn't too bad and I did it multiple times with other characters. But some bullshit always hits me as Samus. :x

I really don't want to hammer it though. I'm at 91/140 without using any hammers yet, I want to make sure I'm using them on the really shitty ones since a good chunk of these are in that target blast/multiman modes which I haven't really focused on at all. 7.0 Classic will likely be one since I did it with a ton of people on lower difficulties already. I need to see a full list for the rest.

Is all headgear separate from all custom outfits? I have the latter already.

Don't blow them on the Stadium challenges. They are all relatively easy to complete, and the ones that could be tricky (like Target Blast challenges and Cruel Smash) have/will have strategy videos out for them.

 

[NamikazeBurst]

All right, I am done for the night. Good games! You have the second best Mega Man I have faced, and it isn't easy being good with MM.

 

[Chaotic-Strike]

You gave me plenty of practice on short hopping lol, and I learned a few tricks from how you were using Robin. Of course, you utterly wrecked me with that Mario lol.

Short hopping is love short hopping is life XD.

Yeah Yoshi is my main, but I had trouble getting close to your Robin, so I switched to Mario. It's just hard to punish rolls in this game.

 

[exfatal]

All right, I am done for the night. Good games! You have the second best Mega Man I have faced, and it isn't easy being good with MM.

Ya thanks man great games, your yoshi is a beast

 

[Vena]

Short hopping is love short hopping is life XD.

Yeah Yoshi is my main, but I had trouble getting close to your Robin, so I switched to Mario. It's just hard to punish rolls in this game.

I need to get better at it, especially since its the only way Robin can really approach physically with his fair or uair. That dash attack is terrible.

As for dodging, if anything, I find that dodging is what gets me killed lol. Especially on your Yoshi and Mario. There's a lot of frames at the end of a dodge that are not invincible and, especially with your Duck Hunt, were getting me sniped. I spam way too many dodges when I get panicked lol.

 

[OricWindstar]

Yeah, good games! Your Marth is really interesting. I think you play the most ground focused Marth I've seen, it's pretty cool. I'd love to play again sometime!

For sure! Haha, also, that's probably because I only started using him in this game.

 

[Tookay]

What exactly do you mean when you say Sm4sh isn't on par with the technicality/speed/gameplay/precision of PM?
It runs at the same frame rate, it offers more stable online play, it has custom moves, and equipment can make the game faster. I don't get it, objectively you're wrong here. I don't understand the mindset some players have about PM, why would you ever consider that Sakurai might include elements of PM when it isn't something they worked on? No offense but you are acting like Miyamoto should have taken 3D dot heroes into account when making ALBTW. Wait, actually that's a bad example because it's an actual game, as opposed to a mod running on brawl disc/dolphin. I have the utmost respect from the guys behind PM, but they didn't build anything from the ground up, they have only made derivative works based off of smash. Why should Sakurai implement 90% of his ideas based on a mod?

You just listed a bunch of things that have nothing to do with the technicality/speed/precision/gameplay.

Just because you can customize stuff doesn't mean the game is "objectively" a more technical game if the underlying physics and controls aren't there.

I don't mean to be rude but you kind of sound like you don't even know what you're talking about.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

People seriously want a playable Mew?

R-really? I get Fierce Deity Link I guess---not anywhere near my Top 10 wanted Smash Characters, probably not even Top 20---but Mew? Can't really imagine him being in Smash Brother's, he's not really a hand-ons kind of Pokemon. I mean it's always pictured as being pretty peaceful unless provoked, and just floats around.

That's a really weird criticism to aim at the game, when everyone is pretty hyped for Mewtwo. I mean, out of all the DLC "wants" I've seen, I've never seen anyone say Fierce Deity Link and Mew. What community exactly wants them?

 

[Vena]

People seriously want a playable Mew?

Nah, its just a pissing contest again because apparently PM and Sm4sh cannot exist concurrently. Its as if people were afraid that Sm4sh will erase PM from the face of the earth or that PM must assert its dominance over Sm4sh lest the world forget (despite the fact that the two games play to different styles of gameplay).

People are also pissy that characters got cut, clones, and that Mewtwo is DLC rather than more characters because, obviously, everything in the future is set in stone forever now.

 

[Shamrock7r]

The mechanics of PM and Smash4 are pretty different, with PM obviously having a much higher focus on chaining offense and true combos. That is not to say that Smash4 should be considered lower in terms of competitiveness. There is a lot to like about Smash4 in terms of competitive game, and again strategies and techniques are still being discovered. There is nothing wrong with someone currently preferring Smash4 for competitive play vs PM.

 

[Thorakai]

I really want to know which part of the Smash community is clamoring for Mew and Oni Link.

Its never been a thing in the GAF Smash hype threads for Brawl and WiiU/3DS.

 

[Spainkiller]

I love my DH squad, but I've had pretty mixed results with F-Smash. If the opponent puts up their shield once the move activates, they can block the last, most powerful hit. Granted, if they shield and release too early, the last hit alone can deliver some solid knockback, but still.

Yeah, but man, that reach!

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

I mean, I get his other complaints about not liking how Smash 4...but getting upset over Mewtwo being DLC, and then listing one of the weirdest choices for Smash DLC I've ever seen just confuses me. I mean, if he said Ridley, Isaac, K. Rool, I'd be like, alright. But Mew? Fucking Mew? And a third Link who was just a really weird "Super Form" in one game.

I really want to know which part of the Smash community is clamoring for Mew and Oni Link.

Its never been a thing in the GAF Smash hype threads for Brawl and WiiU/3DS.

"Oni Link" (why not just say Fierce Deity?) I sort of get, I mean people were happy seeing it as an color for Link in Smash 4 (it's not perfect, but it's a nice reference), and I'd like to see it in the MM Hyrule Warriors DLC, but yeah, I wouldn't want it as a full character in Smash.

 

[Papercuts]

Cleared Crazy Orders after round 20 with Mario. Almost botched that last fight really badly.

Re: characters, I like Fierce Deity but if they would ever put someone in from MM it should absolutely be Skull Kid, or some variant of young link that uses all of the different masks(making FD the final smash). Mew...I don't really get. I'm glad Mewtwo is back but to me it feels more like a Melee thing, if he wasn't in there I'm not sure this would be happening.

 

[ArynCrinn]

People seriously want a playable Mew?

R-really? I get Fierce Deity Link I guess---not anywhere near my Top 10 wanted Smash Characters, probably not even Top 20---but Mew? Can't really imagine him being in Smash Brother's, he's not really a hand-ons kind of Pokemon. I mean it's always pictured as being pretty peaceful unless provoked, and just floats around.

That's a really weird criticism to aim at the game, when everyone is pretty hyped for Mewtwo. I mean, out of all the DLC "wants" I've seen, I've never seen anyone say Fierce Deity Link and Mew. What community exactly wants them?

Mew > Mewtwo He's even cute.

Fierce Deity Link (Oni Link), I don't know where you've been, because seen him come up countlessly in Smash X or Y char want lists, almost always at the top. I mean really, all things considered, is there a more "badass" sort of character other than Oni Link that could even be considered? I'm open to opinions, but damn, playing as him would be fucking amazing with a entirely new move set/animations/physics/taunts/etc. And dat sword! Just imagine the Final Smash!

 

[Megalosaro]

Now that I've spent a bunch of time with both games, here is my thoughts on both titles.

Things Smash 4 3DS does better:
- Classic mode: So much more fun on the 3DS. Sure Wii U has multiplayer Classic, but I really like the branching paths the 3DS version. The board just isn't that interesting to me and lacks a certain rhythm I've come to expect from classic. That sense of progression I guess.
- Smash Run: Not many people seem to like Smash Run, but I adore it. While I would have liked more control over the final battle, and multiple stages would have been nice (i'm hoping for smash run dlc personally) I enjoy running around fighting old enemies from classic nintendo games. to me, it's about the journey not the destination. Smash Tour is a poor substitute. It's not a terrible mode to play as, but I'd rather just play a normal match than play that over an extended period of time
All Star: Honestly, they're about the same. But I really like the design of the inbetween area in the 3DS game. The Wii U's area is kind of boring

Things Smash 4 Wii U does better:
- Music: Over 400 songs, of course it has a better soundtrack. Plus you have more control over the songs. Some great additions to the franchise's soundtracks, plus a bunch of brawl's best songs make a come back
- Controls: I actually don't mind the 3DS controls. I know a bunch of people don't though. The game is smart enough to give you tons of options, including using a 3DS as a controller.

Things both games do very well:
-Silky smooth frame rate (for the most part). yeah, there is an occasional lag in online stuff, but both games do a great job of maintaining their frame rates. It is especially impressive on the 3DS, which maintains its frame rate even in 3D.
- Stages: A great selection of stages. A bit too much reliance on classic stages, but overall some great choices. Omega mode is a great addition as well.

 

[Karsticles]

Beat Kirby's Appetite!

24 seconds to spare.

 

[Papercuts]

Beat Kirby's Appetite!

24 seconds to spare.

On hard? That event is miserable.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I'm more a Ridley/Isaac guy. And Isaac and Golden Sun stuff outside of music doesn't exist in Smash 4.

 

[Masked Man]

Yeah, but man, that reach!

True! It's a little deceptive, though. I often find myself charging just one level under what's necessary to hit the opponent when they're recovering. No complaints, though: I love the hunting trio!

 

[Papercuts]

I'm more a Ridley/Isaac guy. And Isaac and Golden Sun stuff outside of music doesn't exist in Smash 4.

My team ridley spirit will never die. I have only wanted two things since melee: Playable Ridley and a proper Ganondorf.

Seeing the current state two games later, and to boot them adding Lucina/Dark Pit and not something like Black Shadow to offload current ganondorf's moveset makes me one salty individual since DLC can't fix that.

The lack of any Golden Sun aside from the music is really weird to me since they excised his AT. Does Isaac even have a standard trophy anymore?

 

[Spainkiller]

Cleared Crazy Orders after round 20 with Mario. Almost botched that last fight really badly.

Oh, man. So jelly. I'm thinking about hammering that one; the 10 rounds with Greninja challenge was nightmarish enough. The time limit and steep admission price give me the fear.

Got any good tips, though?

Oh, and can the fight against the Hands be the 20th round, or do you need to do 20 rounds and THEN fight the Hands? When I did the Greninja challenge, I did Crazy Hand on the 11th round to be sure.

 

[ArynCrinn]

I mean, I get his other complaints about not liking how Smash 4...but getting upset over Mewtwo being DLC, and then listing one of the weirdest choices for Smash DLC I've ever seen just confuses me. I mean, if he said Ridley, Isaac, K. Rool, I'd be like, alright. But Mew? Fucking Mew? And a third Link who was just a really weird "Super Form" in one game.



"Oni Link" (why not just say Fierce Deity?) I sort of get, I mean people were happy seeing it as an color for Link in Smash 4 (it's not perfect, but it's a nice reference), and I'd like to see it in the MM Hyrule Warriors DLC, but yeah, I wouldn't want it as a full character in Smash.

K. Rool would be cool, as would that big strong Kremlng in DKC2 (forget his name), fuck Isaac he has no place in a fighter, Ridley is too damn big and already in the game as a sort of "boss".

Although, I really wish Nintendo would have taken up Ed McMillien's request to add Super Meat Boy into Smash (only unlockable after completing Classic on hardest diff)! But then again, how the hell would he fight?

Cleared Crazy Orders after round 20 with Mario. Almost botched that last fight really badly.

Re: characters, I like Fierce Deity but if they would ever put someone in from MM it should absolutely be Skull Kid, or some variant of young link that uses all of the different masks(making FD the final smash). Mew...I don't really get. I'm glad Mewtwo is back but to me it feels more like a Melee thing, if he wasn't in there I'm not sure this would be happening.

I like this idea too.

 

[Poltergust]

Oh, man. So jelly. I'm thinking about hammering that one; the 10 rounds with Greninja challenge was nightmarish enough. The time limit and steep admission price give me the fear.

Got any good tips, though?

Oh, and can the fight against the Hands be the 20th round, or do you need to do 20 rounds and THEN fight the Hands? When I did the Greninja challenge, I did Crazy Hand on the 11th round to be sure.

Use equipment, especially healing equipment. Don't bother increasing speed, though.

And I think you do need to get to round 21.

 

[Spainkiller]

True! It's a little deceptive, though. I often find myself charging just one level under what's necessary to hit the opponent when they're recovering. No complaints, though: I love the hunting trio!

I really hate the fact that the character's called 'Duck Hunt Duo' in my version. It's not even accurate.

 

[jnWake]

The Cruel Smash challenge with Lucina is so painful. My strategy was to drop off the ledge and then jump near the corner and use Counter. Repeating that a lot I managed to get 8 kills, but it was very hard.

Spoiler

Then I saw the cheap method in GameXplain and felt so dumb... I even got many kills with my recovery and never thought about that haha

 

[DoctorDonkey]

I'm down for pretty much anything, I play Shulk and Little Mac. LAN adapter in the mail.

NNID: DoctorDonkey

 

[MagiusNecros]

The lack of any Golden Sun aside from the music is really weird to me since they excised his AT. Does Isaac even have a standard trophy anymore?

So far nothing at all.

 

[Monster Zero]

Alright, who wants to fight

 

[Sigismundo]

Compromise: Ganondorf gets his sword neutral B, his jumping punch Up-B and his divekick Down-B and a few of his normal moves (the bad ones preferably) are revamped to use his sword. Better?

 

[Clefargle]

If I have to actually explain why Project M is more skill-based/faster/technically superior I'll just assume not and let you play it yourself for a long stretch then go back to vanilla Smash4... That needs no explanation. Objectively right is actually the proper terminology? Can you do all the advanced techniques allowed for in PM? If not my point stands regardless.

Yeah, I asked for a definition. I would like for you to break down exactly what having more AT's currently discovered has to do with the game design being more or less technical. The faster pace of the game is just a subjective thing that you prefer. I'm asking what objectively makes a game technically superior. Can you answer that please? If it is "more AT's" then I don't necessarily think that equates to an objectively better game. It just happens to be what you like.

So? There's supposed "Pro CoD tournaments" too, whereas the relativity of this thinking gets us to a point where some would argue it's just as much of a skill-based game as Quake 3 or Unreal Tourney. But that's another argument, point is, I don't give a shit about 8p Smash, so we'll just agree to disagree. I'd rather watch pro's do 1v1 rather than anything in Smash. Different strokes.

Ok, I guess they are the same thing then. We haven't even had a chance to see where the metagame goes with these new modes, but you've already written them off.

What are you even talking about, moreover why are you defending a company over your own and fellow customers self interest, playing devil's advocate for a company and doing a terrible PR job at that. We all understand the concept of "business", we forget that concept of NOT playing devil's advocate or defending a company in any way when we feel our self interest financially is being compromised. Mewtwo is only 1 char...how much you imagine their going to charge? I bet more than $1. And my examples of two other characters the community would love, Mew and Oni Link, would be great, as well as adding back all the left out Brawl cast with balanced move sets. I mean, fuck Oni Link has been wanted since Melee, would three totally new chars plus all axed chars from Brawl not be a worthwhile DLC to pay $5-$15 for? Rather than just fucking Mewtwo, gimme a break? Better than dropping $30 on the 3DS version for sure just for one stupid char. So am I thinking "personally", you damn right, but I'm also think what would "realistically" be universally viewed as a good investment into potential DLC options considering price.

When did I defend nintendo? I spoke only of Sakurai and his design choices. Why do you think Mewtwo is the only dlc char? And why does it matter if it costs more than a dollar? I would have been fine with paying full price for Mewtwo DLC (priced within the bounds of reason). The way Sakurai is currently handling Mewtwo works for everyone, if you had both systems then you get it free. If you don't, wait and pay less later. You're crazy if you think Ninty won't eventually sell Mewtwo standalone, it's like free money!

Me too, and like I said I hope to see the Homebrew option that's upcoming alleviate a lot of these issues with the new Riivolution which allows for custom "patches/fixes" and allows modders to actually fix games to a certain extent. I think the DKC: TF Riivolution patch will be the first to release actually.

Well, this is what happened to the Pokemon community and now it's stuffed full of illegitimate shinys and legends and Smogon's crazy banlists.

You just listed a bunch of things that have nothing to do with the technicality/speed/precision/gameplay.

Just because you can customize stuff doesn't mean the game is "objectively" a more technical game if the underlying physics and controls aren't there.

I don't mean to be rude but you kind of sound like you don't even know what you're talking about.

I was asking for him to define his terms, if I knew what he was talking about I wouldn't have asked. C'mon.

 

[Papercuts]

Oh, man. So jelly. I'm thinking about hammering that one; the 10 rounds with Greninja challenge was nightmarish enough. The time limit and steep admission price give me the fear.

Got any good tips, though?

Oh, and can the fight against the Hands be the 20th round, or do you need to do 20 rounds and THEN fight the Hands? When I did the Greninja challenge, I did Crazy Hand on the 11th round to be sure.

Not sure if equipment all keeps the same name/stats, but make a custom mario and look for something gives a homerun bat. I had shoes for it, and overalls that gave battering items 1.5x attack(probably overkill) which helps out immensely. Giant battles get one shot, and surprisingly metal ones do too, so you can run through pretty damn fast. I think I had just under 7 minutes when I actually got up to 20, when before I got to around 15 when time was becoming a problem. FFA/Team Battle could work fine but make sure the stage is alright so you don't get some Palutena Temple time sucker.

You can do it right on the 20th. So clear 19 and finish it off, though be aware that at this high crazy and master will be there. I also had infinitely(?) spawning jigglypuffs.

If you couldn't use custom characters here I would have hammered it for sure, was waaay too annoying trying it legit.

 

[Soulflarz]

So...many...games
Sad I cant play smash more

 

[Spainkiller]

Use equipment, especially healing equipment. Don't bother increasing speed, though.

Yeah, that's how I beat the Greninja challenge, with healing equipment, but won't that leave me with horribly few hit points in the final fight? The time limit is also a major concern.

Thanks for the tips, btw.

 

[KLatin Scelus]

Compromise: Ganondorf gets his sword neutral B, his jumping punch Up-B and his divekick Down-B and a few of his normal moves (the bad ones preferably) are revamped to use his sword. Better?

No! We need MOAR magic!

 

[MagiusNecros]

Compromise: Ganondorf gets his sword neutral B, his jumping punch Up-B and his divekick Down-B and a few of his normal moves (the bad ones preferably) are revamped to use his sword. Better?

No. Falcondorf will have to stay. Add Pig Ganon as a new Zelda Rep. We have 2 Link's and 2 Zelda's. Where the 2nd Ganon at?

Besides WF has it's uses and WDK isn't always good in some matchups despite the horizontal recovery and the fact it goes over most projectiles. However where it ends isn't always favorable and I would rather have the WF spike shenanigans over WDK.

 

[Spainkiller]

Not sure if equipment all keeps the same name/stats, but make a custom mario and look for something gives a homerun bat. I had shoes for it, and overalls that gave battering items 1.5x attack(probably overkill) which helps out immensely. Giant battles get one shot, and surprisingly metal ones do too, so you can run through pretty damn fast. I think I had just under 7 minutes when I actually got up to 20, when before I got to around 15 when time was becoming a problem.

THERE'S HOMERUN BAT EQUIPMENT!? [/dead]

You can do it right on the 20th. So clear 19 and finish it off.

Oh, fuck yes! You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.

If you couldn't use custom characters here I would have hammered it for sure, was waaay too annoying trying it legit.

Hehe Now to find a way to farm tickets, because no way in hell am I going to spend 5k gold on each attempt

 

[Sigismundo]

No! We need MOAR magic!

So, uh, do people want Ganondorf the swordsman, Ganondorf the sorcerer or Ganondorf the Muscle Wizard?

 

[Papercuts]

THERE'S HOMERUN BAT EQUIPMENT!? [/dead]



Oh, fuck yes! You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.



Hehe Now to find a way to farm tickets, because no way in hell am I going to spend 5k gold on each attempt

I have 27 tickets and I have no idea where they came from. I've been doing a lot of classic runs so maybe that's actually paying out more than I thought.

And yeah, I had no idea home run bats where a thing until I asked about the challenge before. I saw some other items but that is a little bit insane, lol. I also have no-flinch smasher equipment which prevents you from being launched while charging a smash attack, which might stack with a bat but I didn't test it. I think it would count, though.

So, uh, do people want Ganondorf the swordsman, Ganondorf the sorcerer or Ganondorf the Muscle Wizard?

I want ganondorf the BATTLEMAGE.

Much to my dismay I have a lot of fun playing as him anyway so I do want the moveset to still currently exist, I just don't think it's a good depiction of his character. Like, Robin is a more sensible clone choice at this point if they just turned the fire/thunder purple, lol.

 

[Masked Man]

I really hate the fact that the character's called 'Duck Hunt Duo' in my version. It's not even accurate.

Oh, that's right! It's too bad your friend couldn't nudge the EN translation team at NoE and get them to fix it before the game went out. ;P

 

[MagiusNecros]

So, uh, do people want Ganondorf the swordsman, Ganondorf the sorcerer or Ganondorf the Muscle Wizard?

All 3. Obviously. Tri-Force man. Triple the power. Triple the force to be reckoned with.

 

[RomanceDawn]

1vs1 anyone?

 

[Monster Zero]

1vs1 anyone?

Let's go baws

 

[KLatin Scelus]

So, uh, do people want Ganondorf the swordsman, Ganondorf the sorcerer or Ganondorf the Muscle Wizard?

We need a survey...


In all seriousness, I think Ganondorf should have more magic in his attacks.

Most of his attacks look good as is (Forward-Air, Forward-Tilt, Down-Air, etc.)

But some just feel...off, like his Up-Air.

Also, his Up-Tilt is almost useless.

 

[Karsticles]

Yes, Kirby's Appetite was on hard.

How on earth do you get 8 fever thingies with Dr. Mario? I barely got 6 with Fox.

So, uh, do people want Ganondorf the swordsman, Ganondorf the sorcerer or Ganondorf the Muscle Wizard?

Different people want different things.

 

[ArynCrinn]

I was asking for him to define his terms, if I knew what he was talking about I wouldn't have asked. C'mon.

By reading his post, your questioning of "defining" what I mean has been answered. But I thought, naively that was already old news to you.

Honestly, if I have to break down tick by tick WHY PM's full system is technically(meaning precisely techniques)/superior skill-based play (not even considering metagames) than I'd have to sit here and type till doomsday. My best answer to you is, you boot up PM for about 5 hours, play it a lot, then come and talk to me about how it controls and handles it's physics/precision and timings vs. Smash4. Point I was making about Sakurai is, since PM totally and completely by orders of magnitude improved Brawl in every way, why not simply use that exact template as a base for Smash4 since it's almost universally preferred to Brawl. Why not give your biggest fans the benefit of the doubt that maybe they know more about how they most enjoy the game then build upwards from there.

But your point stands about most dev's being oblivious to the massive superior works of modders. Yes, they didn't create the game, but they made it as near perfect to what the community wanted as possible. Why not respect that firsthand at the start and say "hey, these guy's had the better execution, let's copy what they did, improve it and build upon it" = god-tier Smash4 imo. But only game that has REALLY done that if you've been fortunate enough to see that shaky cam footage is Doom(4), which with no doubt in anybody's mind take a TON if not 90% of it's ideas from the Brutal Doom mod, which again almost universally every old school Doom player myself included loved.

 

[RomanceDawn]

Let's go baws

Cool man!

 

[Monster Zero]

Cool man!

KingGhidra

 

[RomanceDawn]

KingGhidra

I'll host.