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Super Smash Bros. for Wii U |OT| True Potential of Smash Bros.

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Papercuts said:
Much to my dismay I have a lot of fun playing as him anyway so I do want the moveset to still currently exist, I just don't think it's a good depiction of his character. Like, Robin is a more sensible clone choice at this point if they just turned the fire/thunder purple, lol.
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I play C.Falcon so I'm quite happy with Ganon as is but I do think he could use a little more work. Melee Ganon was great (as was Melee C.Falcon!) and Brawl Ganon was horrendous (ditto) so let's not have that ever again.

MagiusNecros said:
All 3. Obviously. Tri-Force man. Triple the power. Triple the force to be reckoned with.
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I can dig it. The only thing I have trouble fitting is the tennis ball but I imagine that could be a charged neutral B or something.

KLatin Scelus said:
Also, his Up-Tilt is almost useless.
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Not 100% sure on this but I think the explosion hits underneath ledges so if you get a good read on someone it's good for edgeguarding.
 
ArynCrinn said:
Point I was making about Sakurai is, since PM totally and completely by orders of magnitude improved Brawl in every way, why not simply use that exact template as a base for Smash4 since it's almost universally preferred to Brawl. Why not give your biggest fans the benefit of the doubt that maybe they know more about how they most enjoy the game then build upwards from there.
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Why make new things when we can make the old things everyone likes!

Also Project M has plenty of shit that people also don't like and there's a reason it hasn't completely taken over the scene, even over melee. Its not some sort of holy chalice, don't treat it as such.
 
All Ganondorf needs really is reflect properties on his Standard Palm thrust attack. That's it. And any other buff I'm given along the way. On the other hand give me the Bowser buffs. All of them. Oh how I would love to have the Giga Bowser version of Fortress.
 
ArynCrinn said:
By reading his post, your questioning of "defining" what I mean has been answered. But I thought, naively that was already old news to you.

Honestly, if I have to break down tick by tick WHY PM's full system is technically(meaning precisely techniques)/superior skill-based play (not even considering metagames) than I'd have to sit here and type till doomsday. My best answer to you is, you boot up PM for about 5 hours, play it a lot, then come and talk to me about how it controls and handles it's physics/precision and timings vs. Smash4. Point I was making about Sakurai is, since PM totally and completely by orders of magnitude improved Brawl in every way, why not simply use that exact template as a base for Smash4 since it's almost universally preferred to Brawl. Why not give your biggest fans the benefit of the doubt that maybe they know more about how they most enjoy the game then build upwards from there.

But your point stands about most dev's being oblivious to the massive superior works of modders. Yes, they didn't create the game, but they made it as near perfect to what the community wanted as possible. Why not respect that firsthand at the start and say "hey, these guy's had the better execution, let's copy what they did, improve it and build upon it" = god-tier Smash4 imo. But only game that has REALLY done that if you've been fortunate enough to see that shaky cam footage is Doom(4), which with no doubt in anybody's mind take a TON if not 90% of it's ideas from the Brutal Doom mod, which again almost universally every old school Doom player myself included loved.
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Dude, you're making 0 points towards your argument. If it's so fucking obvious why P:M is better (which, for the record, I am a fan of) then simply state why. Otherwise, stop posting vague "it's because it's obvious" responses. Saying it's better because it's better is not a solid reasoning.
 
MagiusNecros said:
All Ganondorf needs really is reflect properties on his Standard Palm thrust attack. That's it. And any other buff I'm given along the way. On the other hand give me the Bowser buffs. All of them. Oh how I would love to have the Giga Bowser version of Fortress.
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His palm thrust is his jab, right?

That seems like it would work nicely as a reflector.
 
ArynCrinn said:
>Smash4 = New thing?

....I think not, hence the #4 and hence it's longstanding identical formula.
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The mechanics are most certainly new in terms of their application, its a blend that falls somewhere between Melee and Brawl, and gives me vibes of my personal favorite of the Smashes, N64.

You just want an official PM. I don't, that already exists and can keep its designs to itself.
 
ArynCrinn said:
By reading his post, your questioning of "defining" what I mean has been answered. But I thought, naively that was already old news to you.

Honestly, if I have to break down tick by tick WHY PM's full system is technically(meaning precisely techniques)/superior skill-based play (not even considering metagames) than I'd have to sit here and type till doomsday. My best answer to you is, you boot up PM for about 5 hours, play it a lot, then come and talk to me about how it controls and handles it's physics/precision and timings vs. Smash4. Point I was making about Sakurai is, since PM totally and completely by orders of magnitude improved Brawl in every way, why not simply use that exact template as a base for Smash4 since it's almost universally preferred to Brawl. Why not give your biggest fans the benefit of the doubt that maybe they know more about how they most enjoy the game then build upwards from there.

But your point stands about most dev's being oblivious to the massive superior works of modders. Yes, they didn't create the game, but they made it as near perfect to what the community wanted as possible. Why not respect that firsthand at the start and say "hey, these guy's had the better execution, let's copy what they did, improve it and build upon it" = god-tier Smash4 imo. But only game that has REALLY done that if you've been fortunate enough to see that shaky cam footage is Doom(4), which with no doubt in anybody's mind take a TON if not 90% of it's ideas from the Brutal Doom mod, which again almost universally every old school Doom player myself included loved.
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Are you free for some 1on1s? Smash4
I would like to play you if you're available.
 
Sigismundo said:
Not 100% sure on this but I think the explosion hits underneath ledges so if you get a good read on someone it's good for edgeguarding.
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Yeah, but the move is so slow, you'd need to read them like a book for that to work.

Unless, the opponent doesn't know about that detail... >:)

Edit: Really, I think at least one of the following could help him considerably:

- Projectile (Dead Man's Volley)
- Sword (Increase his range)
- Teleport (Mix-ups, and mind games)
- Hover akin to Peach
 
Papercuts said:
And yeah, I had no idea home run bats where a thing until I asked about the challenge before. I saw some other items but that is a little bit insane, lol. I also have no-flinch smasher equipment which prevents you from being launched while charging a smash attack, which might stack with a bat but I didn't test it.
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Oh wow, I need to get my hand on more equipment. I only have really boring ones; the only cool ones (like the Vampire one) I have where from the Challenge Board.

Masked Man said:
Oh, that's right! It's too bad your friend couldn't nudge the EN translation team at NoE and get them to fix it before the game went out. ;P
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Hahahaha, well played :)
 
KLatin Scelus said:
Yeah, but the move is so slow, you'd need to read them like a book for that to work.

Unless, the opponent doesn't know about that detail... >:)
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There's a small window at the end that ensures the move will actually go through and if they decide to panic and block it well...
 
OricWindstar said:
Dude, you're making 0 points towards your argument. If it's so fucking obvious why P:M is better (which, for the record, I am a fan of) then simply state why. Otherwise, stop posting vague "it's because it's obvious" responses. Saying it's better because it's better is not a solid reasoning.
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Because, I would much rather somebody play it for themselves and draw their own conclusions, rather than just me saying it's X or Y, because that's MY opinion without a lot of direct experience for themselves. That "opinion" isn't worth a whole lot.

I can SAY that Super Meat Boy objectively has the most precise, technical and skill-based controls and strats of any platformer. But if somebody who only has say 50 hours in the game hears this they might disagree unless they experience these strats and techniques firsthand. You get what I'm saying.

This isn't religion or philosophy we're talking about here where the burden of truth lies in the one preaching the ideology...gaming is something you can objectively touch and translate into a somewhat objective analysis. I use the term "objective" loosely, because really nothing is truly objective, it's all based on the observer.
 
Guy sounds like he wants a official P:M... but like he said, its a mod for brawl. Sm4sh aint brawl though, just like how brawl or even P:M aint melee.

People gotta stop comparing them and saying which is better when they all play differently.

Each has its fan base, and to me they are all equal. They have many ups and downs.
 
ArynCrinn said:
Because, I would much rather somebody play it for themselves and draw their own conclusions, rather than just me saying it's X or Y, because that's MY opinion without a lot of direct experience for themselves. That's worth a whole lot.

I can SAY that Super Meat Boy objectively has the most precise, technical and skill-based controls and strats of any platformer. B ut if somebody who only has say 50 hours in the game hears this they might disagree unless they experience these strats and techniques firsthand. You get what I'm saying.

This isn't religion or philosophy we're talking about here where the burden of truth lies in the one preaching the ideology...gaming is something you can objectively touch and translate into a somewhat objective analysis. I use the term "objective" loosely, because really nothing is truly objective, it's all based on the observer.
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Okay. in that case there's not really a conversation to have here. Some of us prefer Smash 4 competitively. Some of us prefer Project M competitively. I prefer Smash 4 for my play style and think it is on equal standing of Project M as a competitive title. I have played Project M for hours and still feel this way. Without further information on why you feel the way you do, there's nowhere for the conversation to go.

I don't even feel like having the debate, I'm just letting you know why someone would want more info when you keep saying it's objectively more competitive with no more information to back that statement up.

EDIT: BTW, I hope I'm not coming off as angry. Just like discussing!
 
I'm not going to play for glory anymore, I'm so salty losing to dumb*** people. I'm just going to play with you guys and my brothers from now on.
 
Poltergust said:
-Complete All-Star with all characters on Hard (I did this in the 3DS version, but it's a lot more difficult in this game. It seems that they improved the AI a lot).
-In Trophy Rush, get a chain of 100 without taking damage as Samus (falling blocks can hurt you, so this was going to be annoying).
-Collect all headgear (lol no)
-7.0 Classic with all characters (possible, but maybe too time consuming).
-Destroy a total of 50,000 blocks in Trophy Rush (I average like 300-400 blocks per round. This will take over 100 tries to complete).

Admittedly, I could have done the Samus one by myself if I persisted enough, but whatever.
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One thing that I feel a lot of people are overlooking is that the save data is shared amongst all users of the system. Some of these challenges seem ridiculous, but since multiple players are contributing, it isn't so bad. I suspect some of these are so extreme for the very reason that multiple users can contribute.
 
KLatin Scelus said:
Ooooo!
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BTW since it has a passive windbox you can use it against Kirby/Dedede when they try to inhale you and you won't ever get inhaled. They either get hit or try to shield and well their shield is probably destroyed. Yeah.

And as a edgeguard it really isn't used to hit someone but to make the opponent fearful and do something awkward to avoid getting hit by it which an help you set up a strategy.

-----------------

Dunno why people want Mew. Would just be a Mewtwo clone. And Mewtwo is a clone of Mew.

muh muh muh
 
Poltergust said:
-Complete All-Star with all characters on Hard (I did this in the 3DS version, but it's a lot more difficult in this game. It seems that they improved the AI a lot).
-In Trophy Rush, get a chain of 100 without taking damage as Samus (falling blocks can hurt you, so this was going to be annoying).
-Collect all headgear (lol no)
-7.0 Classic with all characters (possible, but maybe too time consuming).
-Destroy a total of 50,000 blocks in Trophy Rush (I average like 300-400 blocks per round. This will take over 100 tries to complete).

Admittedly, I could have done the Samus one by myself if I persisted enough, but whatever.
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I actually completed the Samus challenge while taking damage from a falling block. Shocked me.

And holy, you can hammer All-Star with everyone on hard? Done and done! That mode sucks.
 
MagiusNecros said:
BTW since it has a passive windbox you can use it against Kirby/Dedede when they try to inhale you and you won't ever get inhaled. They either get hit or try to shield and well their shield is probably destroyed. Yeah.

And as a edgeguard it really isn't used to hit someone but to make the opponent fearful and do something awkward to avoid getting hit by it which an help you set up a strategy.
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Did you find this out from someone else, or from experience? I didn't even factor in how people would react when they think they are in danger.

MagiusNecros said:
Dunno why people want Mew. Would just be a Mewtwo clone. And Mewtwo is a clone of Mew.

muh muh muh
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I feel like Mew's limbs are a bit too small to be like Mewtwo's.

Maybe people just want to play as the ancestor of all pokemon?
 
KLatin Scelus said:
Did you find this out from someone else, or from experience? I didn't even factor in how people would react when they think they are in danger.



I feel like Mew's limbs are a bit too small to be like Mewtwo's.

Maybe people just want to play as the ancestor of all pokemon?
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Experience and Smashboards. Character Discussion is pretty great actually.

--------------

You should enjoy my tasteless jokes. For all we know a playable Mew might just basically be like random where it takes on any fighter's moveset through Metronome.
 
OricWindstar said:
Okay. in that case there's not really a conversation to have here. Some of us prefer Smash 4 competitively. Some of us prefer Project M competitively. I prefer Smash 4 for my play style and think it is on equal standing of Project M as a competitive title. I have played Project M for hours and still feel this way. Without further information on why you feel the way you do, there's nowhere for the conversation to go.

I don't even feel like having the debate, I'm just letting you know why someone would want more info when you keep saying it's objectively more competitive with no more information to back that statement up.

EDIT: BTW, I hope I'm not coming off as angry. Just like discussing!
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Agreed, and as I said it's my point of view. I have no problem with Smash4 vs. PM, although in a perfect world (my perfect world) they'd have used PM's gameplay as the baseline template. But that's just me.

Although I do really think the Mewtwo DLC alone is a bit lacking, I'd like to see Nintendo continue to fly the "great DLC banner" aka MK8, with Mewtwo, Mew, Oni Link and all the axed Brawl chars, with another DLC of all axed Melee/OG Smash chars. That would be cool! Also would be cool if they allowed you to change up the let's call it "gameplay style" where you can choose to use Smash 1/2/3 gameplay/balances/move sets, as well as implement a "style" which is basically PM overlayed on top of Smash4's "game".

Oh yeah, and bring back the C -Stick screen tilting and add in a kickass Luigi Death Stare somehow....maybe during a win screen or when you execute a death Smash attack as the enemy is flying or recovering (snapshots and pauses and replays would never get old with that!). xD
 
masterkajo said:
No more Lucas? I liked him much more than Ness. He was my main character.
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I barely ever played Ness and while using him in classic/all-star I constantly kept using up smash and being sad that it wasn't the big Lucas burst, I loved landing that.
 
ArynCrinn said:
By reading his post, your questioning of "defining" what I mean has been answered. But I thought, naively that was already old news to you.
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I was asking you what YOU meant.

Honestly, if I have to break down tick by tick WHY PM's full system is technically(meaning precisely techniques)/superior skill-based play (not even considering metagames) than I'd have to sit here and type till doomsday. My best answer to you is, you boot up PM for about 5 hours, play it a lot, then come and talk to me about how it controls and handles it's physics/precision and timings vs. Smash4.
Click to expand...

I have PM, I have probably played more than 50 hours of it. Don't know which version because I haven't updated in a bit, but I have hands on experience with how it plays. Yes, it plays more like Melee, yes it has more AT. But that doesn't make a game technical or complex, it's the number of levels of interconnectivity, interaction, and degrees of freedom. Just because the physics are less floaty doesn't mean they are more complex or even realistic. It just means they are closer to what you prefer. That's fine, it's just not objective so don't pretend it is. I don't even know what you mean by "precision" or "timings", but I'll guess that you mean either that it has lower latency between button press and action, or that it enables faster strings of attacks by allowing more open movement options? Again, this is the reason I asked for your definitions of your own terms. But since you refuse to do a simple step that would allow us to converse constructively using terms I understand then I now have to guess at your meaning.

Point I was making about Sakurai is, since PM totally and completely by orders of magnitude improved Brawl in every way, why not simply use that exact template as a base for Smash4 since it's almost universally preferred to Brawl. Why not give your biggest fans the benefit of the doubt that maybe they know more about how they most enjoy the game then build upwards from there.
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This is the Crux of what I don't understand about your position. Yes, PM is objectively better than brawl because of removal of tripping, a randomized anticompetitive element that made brawl annoying to even practice. BUT it isn't universally loved over brawl because the community that loves it universally isn't the entirety of the smash community. It is a vocal subset of the majority of over 12M people that bought the game. How many of those people have PM? I don't know, but Id wager less than a third. Maybe you know, since you are so ingrained in that community. You're the one that claimed it was universally loved after all. I like it more than brawl, but gaming enthusiasts and Te fighting game community is a sliver of Brawl players. This mantra of "the community" is meaningless when you carve out all the "casuals" which brawl was clearly made for. Well sm4sh was made with both "the community" and those people too. Sm4sh was made for the broader community including casuals and JP competitors. And it doesn't have anticompetitive elements that make it unplayable. If nintendo made games to cater to its "biggest fans", it would have died long ago. I understand who Sakurai is making these games for. I understand that, that's why I am not surprised when compromises to what I personally would like in a game come up. You however...

But your point stands about most dev's being oblivious to the massive superior works of modders. Yes, they didn't create the game, but they made it as near perfect to what the community wanted as possible. Why not respect that firsthand at the start and say "hey, these guy's had the better execution, let's copy what they did, improve it and build upon it" = god-tier Smash4 imo. But only game that has REALLY done that if you've been fortunate enough to see that shaky cam footage is Doom(4), which with no doubt in anybody's mind take a TON if not 90% of it's ideas from the Brutal Doom mod, which again almost universally every old school Doom player myself included loved.
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...expect Nintendo, one of the most stubborn and slow to change companies in the industry to be interested in the mod communities efforts? I mean, I WISH they would, but expecting them to do so and getting mad enough about it to come on GAF and rage about it is akin to expecting JK Rowling to incorporate the best Harry Potter Fanfic into future books. It would be cool, but you're setting yourself up for disappointment, get real
 
Gamecube controller / adapter still hasn't shipped :/ Wii U Pro works really well too, though, I must say
 
RomanceDawn said:
GG's man! Your Kirby and G&W have gotten better since we played on the 3DS.

I'd love to play more but I'm so sleepy right now.
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Your DK still has me checking my shield man, sorry for the shitty defense, but you don't know how loud a GameCube controller is until you're next to someone sleeping. I'm trying all hard not to press the R button to loud lol. Tried the gamepad in the last game and it's terrible
 
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