Even then...
I mean they had far better wrestlers they weren't pushing who should've been pushed above Ryder. People singling him out is weird because he never displayed anything to justify a mid-upper card push.
CM Punk tells all about walking out of WWE (podcast)
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Even then...
I mean they had far better wrestlers they weren't pushing who should've been pushed above Ryder. People singling him out is weird because he never displayed anything to justify a mid-upper card push.
FallingEdge
Member
Which I understand but when you have the crowd behind you and you busted your ass off on your own to get them backing you, why not run with it? Not to mention morale. Shows that even if you get yourself over, if you aren't one of the "company guys" it won't matter in the end.
Dark Ninja
Member
They fucked over Ryder, they gave him a false hope push and sent a message to the locker room. He got put in matches where he wasn't protected anybody can be "the guy" doesn't matter how talented they are. Just look at the next "the guy" Roman Reigns i don't even have to explain how that untalented he is but damn has he been protected from the start.
Ryder deserved better because even if he isn't top tier Talent he was good mid card and the mid card is what has been lacking for ages. Now a days the mid card is just the spot were the supposed top tier goes when Cena is running wit the belt.
After they destroyed Ryders momentum they did just what Punk states very clearly. took his ideas and work and parade it out as their own. WWEs entire online shtick is more or less ripped from Ryder.
Ryder was so hot with the fans WWE couldn't come up with new gear and trinkets to sell fast enough with ryder on it. Hell i remember how stoked he was when he got so big merchandise wise he even was outselling the rock after the rock came back for a period.
I mean even Foley came out and said it as ridiculous the wheelchair bump etc was pushed on Ryder and was a totally unnecessary thing to do. When you got the Guy who jumped off steel cages etc saying stuff like that you know things are wrong.
After they destroyed Ryders momentum they did just what Punk states very clearly. took his ideas and work and parade it out as their own. WWEs entire online shtick is more or less ripped from Ryder.
Ryder was so hot with the fans WWE couldn't come up with new gear and trinkets to sell fast enough with ryder on it. Hell i remember how stoked he was when he got so big merchandise wise he even was outselling the rock after the rock came back for a period.
I mean even Foley came out and said it as ridiculous the wheelchair bump etc was pushed on Ryder and was a totally unnecessary thing to do. When you got the Guy who jumped off steel cages etc saying stuff like that you know things are wrong.
They probably should have run with it, I just don't think he had the legs to sustain that sort of reaction.
I mean compare Ryder to Bryan - Ryder bitches, Bryan just works harder. They tried to bury Bryan, but he's so good that he's unfuckable. WWE is skewed because, like you said, they want their boys to get over... everyone else has to be so fucking incredible that they succeed regardless.
Like Austin, Foley, shit even Santino. Santino fucking bombed as IC champ, but he was so funny that he rebuilt his entire career. Cena's the same - for all the talk of 'WWE GUY' he sure wasn't booked worth a damn at first, but he changed to his rap gimmick and got so over that he then became the guy.
People should look at Cena's career as an example of how to get yourself over. Prior to the rap gimmick, he was next in line for cuts guaranteed.
Future Foundation
Member
Here's the thing with Zack, I feel like the run he had masked the fact that he's just not that great. The show, the catchphrases, all of that was great on his part. But when it came to actual in-ring stuff - wrestling, promos, acting - dude wasn't that good.
He's midcard, but I feel like if he was still going now like he was then, there'd be people shitting on him and wondering why Cesaro/"someone more talented" couldn't have his push.
TommyTosser
Member
After listening to the podcast i'm trying to remember why i watch WWE
No one really tickles my fancy anymore
No one really tickles my fancy anymore
Richard Branson should start Virgin Wrestling. It has a built in audience.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
What?? How so? The dude debuted against Kurt Angle and was made to look strong as fuck in that match. Then I think he had a fued with Jericho and won that. He started the rap gimmick not too long after that when he had turned heel. I'm pretty sure he was gonna be pushed from the start.
The push didn't work.
He turned heel. Was lower lower mid-card. During a Halloween special he did the rap thing and it took off from there. His push backfired just like Orton's initial one, both had to turn heel and come up with new characters to stay afloat. And then WWE got involved and slowly took away all of their uniqueness.
Cena was never in line for cuts. He was their golden boy even in developmental, and for damn good reason. He had a great look, he loved the business, and he could go. He was like a young Sting (and Sting/Cena is what I want given how the two had comparisons for much of their career, not Sting/HHH)
Say what you will about Cena, and how his gimmick is stale, but I respect Cena a lot and I think he busts his ass a lot harder than any big name the WWE has had except for Austin.
Say what you will about Cena, and how his gimmick is stale, but I respect Cena a lot and I think he busts his ass a lot harder than any big name the WWE has had except for Austin.
Before he turned heel and did the rapping, the company had given up on him as a serious player.
That was my point. Like The Rock, it was turning heel and having a character that got Cena over. And by all accounts the rapping wasn't something they gave him, it was something he did naturally. So it felt genuine. And that got him over, the mega push didn't.
TommyTosser
Member
As someone who hasn't followed wrestling in years, I will pop in and say that this story reminds me of what they did to Rob Van Dam when he was stupidly over from day 0, they actively punished him for it and demoted him to mid card nobody.
They punish him for it, him smoking weed and getting busted for it killed his championship run.
As for when he was first brought in he was an ECW guy so WWE management didn't have a reason to push him to the top. He also got injury in 2004 irrc that killed his chance to get a push.
RVD should've been pushed in 2001. Absolutely.
But when he was pushed, he fucked it up. He has no one else to blame but himself.
The problem with Zach Ryder is when you get down to it, he isn't a very good wrestler but he appears to be teachable. Unlike Ryback, who had 10 years (or so) and still isn't any better. The WWE had a chance to put him in a feud with a veteran wrestler where Ryder could have shined. Instead, they have a vendetta against him and do a dangerous spot where he's pushed off in a wheelchair.
His Youtube video of him updating about his surgery is incredibly sad to watch. You can tell in his face that he doesn't want to do the surgery and I wouldn't be surprised if he asks for his release soon.
I quit watching wrestling because of how crappy the WWE is currently and Punk's interview pretty much confirmed what I was thinking along. Whether it'll change anything there....I highly doubt it.
His Youtube video of him updating about his surgery is incredibly sad to watch. You can tell in his face that he doesn't want to do the surgery and I wouldn't be surprised if he asks for his release soon.
I quit watching wrestling because of how crappy the WWE is currently and Punk's interview pretty much confirmed what I was thinking along. Whether it'll change anything there....I highly doubt it.
Marvel
could never
You're right, it won't.
crazyrabbits
Banned
This.
All I know is that if I was in a situation where I worked 300+ days a year in an intensely physical sport, and I was routinely getting passed over for people who showed up a handful of days per year and left immediately after making an appearance, I'd be angry too. The fact that they're veterans or draws (and even that second point is up for debate) is irrelevant. If I'm putting in the time, pay me the same as the person who's on the other side.
I can sympathize with his statement because I had to go through something similar myself. It sounds like no one at the corporation had any idea what to do after he left. Withholding pay/royalties is shady and illegal on its own, but the medical issues and half-assed responses from the company after the fact are the icing on the cake. If I were them, I would have put out a statement saying "WWE categorically denies the assertions made by Phil Brooks in the November 27, 2014 interview and rejects his claims that WWE is an unsafe workplace", not a one-sentence statement about how great their Wellness Policy is.
What I find most damning is that McMahon apparently lied about Punk's inactive status on an investor call.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I can't help but wonder who's dumb enough to buy stock in this company. I'd be surprised if it is even around in another decade or two.
The insane cronyism has already lead to a slide in popularity, saved only by nostalgic comebacks that can't continue forever. Meanwhile, the only meaningful asset they have is the on screen talent and they are treated like such crap that they either don't strive to be any good, or split from the company for greener pastures when they do get good.
Add this crazy poor health care bubbling under the surface which could easily blow up into something huge if something happens, and you have a cocktail for a really bad long term business strategy.
The insane cronyism has already lead to a slide in popularity, saved only by nostalgic comebacks that can't continue forever. Meanwhile, the only meaningful asset they have is the on screen talent and they are treated like such crap that they either don't strive to be any good, or split from the company for greener pastures when they do get good.
Add this crazy poor health care bubbling under the surface which could easily blow up into something huge if something happens, and you have a cocktail for a really bad long term business strategy.
Wouldn't be surprised if the Arabs acquire it eventually. They go absolutely batshit crazy for WWE, for some reason.
HazySaiyan
Banned
Well Vince can be really damn petty, so it wouldn't surprise me if he buried Ryder because he got so much heat without getting pushed. I can absolutely see Vince thinking 'I decide who's over and who isn't' and getting pissed off about it.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
neither was Hogan, he was all show too, he did fine, geezus so did the Ult Warrior he became a big time character, guy was all run and gun , posing and best promo's of alllll time where the eternal power of the warrior hunts prey and sacrifice to the moon of combat!!!!!!!
Ryder could've been a stable merchandise selling character, who needed him to be WWE champion? or even IC / US Champion? no one they just wanted to see the character on tv. WWE responded to this by trashing his character , people knew he wasn't the next Bret Hart when they were going nuts for his rare appearances and making his youtube channel a hit. Now the reasoning is oh he wasn't that good in the ring? We could see that, we like the character. Too late now.
Punk killed it here... I love the rock, but he just did his same ol' stick and hey, people love him for it but Punk just out shinned him during this time.
Professor Beef
Banned
I was a huge Ryder fan, and I wanted him nowhere near the main two championships. His entire story (that HE BUILT) was around the US Title that Ziggler had (along with his HDMI cable, the bastard). THAT'S what I cared about. Instead they did everything in their power to shit on him with that fucking Cena/Kane angle.
I honestly couldn't believe the story about Vince ribbing him by telling him that he was scheduled to be in a Jersey show, then said "lol looks like you're not on the show after all." Not to mention that he's pretty much responsible for them having a Youtube channel to begin with. Fucking shit, I'm angry all over again for how they treated Ryder. CROWDS WERE CHANTING FOR HIM AT EVERY SHOW, AND THEY FUCKING SQUANDERED IT.
I honestly couldn't believe the story about Vince ribbing him by telling him that he was scheduled to be in a Jersey show, then said "lol looks like you're not on the show after all." Not to mention that he's pretty much responsible for them having a Youtube channel to begin with. Fucking shit, I'm angry all over again for how they treated Ryder. CROWDS WERE CHANTING FOR HIM AT EVERY SHOW, AND THEY FUCKING SQUANDERED IT.
JesseEwiak
Member
Actually, yeah, he was in line for cuts according to Meltzer and everybody else. You have to remember, there were lots of guys that looked like Cena in the mid-2000's. And as far as being the "golden boy", ask Drew McIntyre how that works out for you at times.
One other thing. While Linda's campaign was obviously a factor for the push to PG, the big thing was a massive Mattel contract and other sponsor contracts that predicated the shift to PG.
As for Punk, part-timers are fine when they're facing active guys. The problem is matches like Brock vs. HHH when it's two part timers facing off.
Are you seriously implying Hogan and Warrior are comparable to Zack Ryder?
Mr. Nanny is better than anything Zack Ryder has, will, or could ever do. And I'll take Warrior's nonsenical promos over 'woo woo woo, I blew it' anyday.
CMojicaAce
Member
Z! True Long Island Story was a great series that Ryder put out. It got him over so much with the fans. But as usual, WWE messed it all up. He may not of been main event material, but he could have been a solid, entertaining mid-carder.
Dirtyshubb
Member
Out of everything that is wrong with WWE, this was the main thing that pushed me away. No matter how much business sense it makes to take a story somewhere that the crowd would love, they always decide to do it their own way and basically ruin any momentum a character might have.
I mean, experience would suggest that this is all down to Vince and his ongoing crusade to only push things he has a creative hand in, rather than admit the crowd wanted something he wasnt planning on and giving it to them. These days however I can imagine HHH and Steph are there to hold certain people down that they dont like as well as the usual bullshit backstage.
If I was booking my own show at the level of WWE and the crowd starting getting behind someone in a huge way like we have seen before, I would attempt to capitalise on it and push the story that way to please the crowd. I mean, when you have a direct link to your audience and they are screaming at the top of their lungs how much they love one aspect of your product, you dont fucking go Hmm they seem to love this, right, time to squash it, re do it my own way and claim all the credit because then you just sour everyone on your shitty, illogical take on what they liked in the first place and then you have tainted the person involved beyond any chance of getting those cheers again. All so you can stroke your ego, instead of doing whats best for business which you have claimed for years is your main motivator.
I have more hope that TNA (Which I stopped following nearly a year ago) can turn things around than WWE can at this point. Now Im not saying that TNA will become the bigger brand or anything, just that for all their faults, they are more likely to change and improve than WWE ever will be at this point.
s_mirage
Member
Difficult to say. AFAIK they lost money this year which is why they've been cutting production costs. They're not in immediate danger but in my inexpert opinion they could be in trouble over the long term. They've sacrificed the pay per view model so they really need the network to pan out for them.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Well, when you quote Nas...
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
No i said he could've been a popular character and solid merchandise seller for the company regardless of his short comings. How did you comprehend my post as him being put in the same class as Hogan. I pointed out shortcomings other successful wrestlers had and still succeeded, those two couldn't wrestle either, and yet they made a living just fine in the wrestling business. Its showmanship above all, Ryder played the hand delt him , flopped a royal flush and so then WWE fuckin flipped the table over.
This is his best promo imo. Punk was on fire that night and made the rock look like a babbling chump with his "arms too long" line.
Punk should try out rapping.
JesseEwiak
Member
They're going to get $220 million in TV rights in 2018. The WWE is going to be fine.
funkystudent
Member
No one other then crazy people wanted to see Ryder as champ or main eventing mania.
That entire movement was simply about seeing a guy people liked actually on TV. Before his youtube show blew up he wasnt on TV at all.
At most he was getting random Superstars matches whenever they where in his home town. And even after he blew up it still took 4 months of "we want Ryder" chants for him to make it onto RAW.
People just wanted them to TRY with him. And WWE did. And he bombed. The end.
But in a nutshell that is the great problem with WWE these days.
They should have many tiers of talent and stories going on. Instead you have Cena, people wrestling Cena, And everyone else. The concept of Mid / Lower card barely exists now. Its all just directionless filler and Cena.
That entire movement was simply about seeing a guy people liked actually on TV. Before his youtube show blew up he wasnt on TV at all.
At most he was getting random Superstars matches whenever they where in his home town. And even after he blew up it still took 4 months of "we want Ryder" chants for him to make it onto RAW.
People just wanted them to TRY with him. And WWE did. And he bombed. The end.
But in a nutshell that is the great problem with WWE these days.
They should have many tiers of talent and stories going on. Instead you have Cena, people wrestling Cena, And everyone else. The concept of Mid / Lower card barely exists now. Its all just directionless filler and Cena.
FlammableD
Banned
All of this is right. Except the bit about them trying.
JesseEwiak
Member
Yup. I got nothing against Zach Ryder. But, I can name 25 guys on the roster who'd I rather see on TV.
megamerican
Member
Didn't his push involve him being John Cena's lackey, being with a girl who was fucking someone else, and then being pushed off the stage in a wheelchair?
BronsonLee
Member
How the fuck did this topic turn to Ryder?!
Love this promo...sad he will never be in WWE again. Talent like this doesn't grow on tree's.
So anyone have any thoughts on this persons theory with Punk and his whole treatment? This guy thinks there's holes in Punks story.
http://www.thewrestlingmania.com/articles/big-hole-cm-punk-podcast/
The Big Hole in the CM Punk Podcast
http://www.thewrestlingmania.com/articles/big-hole-cm-punk-podcast/
The Big Hole in the CM Punk Podcast
God I totally forgot about "cookie puss"
Rock was so god damn terrible his past run.
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