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[Karsticles]

Just spent like 2 hours playing 4-player online Smash with friends, had an absolute blast. Still only the second time I've played Smash pretty much ever, NO idea what I'm doing. Was starting to stick with Peach though. Turning off tilt jump and flipping one of the jump and attack buttons on the pad helped a TON, but I'm still super terrible at the game. Main thing messing me up is just general movement and attack ranges; constantly am dashing when I don't want to be (causing me to go past people), I try to attack when people are out of range or I'm facing the wrong way etc. But I had enough fun where I'm going to actually try to stick it out and learn the game, whereas with Brawl I played the game for like 4 hours the day it came out and was done with it, and I never played Melee.

Do you know how to low hover with Peach?

I've been out of the FGC loop for a long while.

Few questions:

1) For SF4, with this new patch, will tournies be using Omega mode or whatever?

2) Guilty Gear xrd---big community ready stateside? Game looks ace!

3) How is Smash U Being received by the community? Game looks kinda hype... is Spooby streaming it, as well as the west coast?

1) AFAIK, Omega Mode is intended to have all the tournament value of UMvC3's H&H mode.

2) Not sure how anyone here would gauge that.

3) Mixed reception. Brawl players universally love it, Melee/PM players are split between loving it despite not being Melee/PM and hating it for not being Melee/PM.

I actually bought it on 360 as well. Well, traded in a bunch of useless games like FFXIII and such for it when EB had a trade-in bonus promo. I just want to play Scorpion, TBH.

I know that feel about getting games for free and still not wanting to play them. It began on Steam, but even when I got Crysis and Sleeping Dogs for free on 360 I only played like an hour of each before I just said it's not worth my time. Not like that for all games though, I got way more out of World of Keflings lol

I love that about PS+. It lets me know what I really value. Bioshock Infinite? Still haven't turned it on. Ditto for DmC. I've almost finished Strider though, and I want to find time to play Binding of Isaac. It just isn't the right time with Smash and Xrd coming out. Maybe over the summer.

 

[fader]

2) Not sure how anyone here would gauge that.

we really can't cause the game isnt out yet.

best i can tell you zlatko about Xrd is that pre-Xrd, Guilty Gear community is relativly small compared to Japan's Guilty Gear community. a lot of pro players seem interested in Xrd but I have a nacking suspicion they will drop it in a week like all games they played lately. a lot of people feel Xrd will blow up with popularity in the states but idk... we will see

 

[Karsticles]

we really can't cause the game isnt out yet.

best i can tell you zlatko about Xrd is that pre-Xrd, Guilty Gear community is relativly small compared to Japan's Guilty Gear community. a lot of pro players seem interested in Xrd but I have a nacking suspicion they will drop it in a week like all games they played lately. a lot of people feel Xrd will blow up with popularity in the states but idk... we will see

I feel like it has potential if only because there is 0 competition in the next-gen fighting game experience right now outside of Smash. You can only play a slightly different version of Street Fighter for so many years.

 

[fader]

I feel like it has potential if only because there is 0 competition in the next-gen fighting game experience right now outside of Smash. You can only play a slightly different version of Street Fighter for so many years.

I hope so. I would love for Guilty Gear to blow up but I gotta stay a realist too. The state of the FGC right now is to try new fighting games out but do not stick with them for long if they are not made by Capcom.

 

[Professor Beef]

Injustice is fun. Good shit, enzo.

 

[Rhapsody]

3) How is Smash U Being received by the community? Game looks kinda hype... is Spooby streaming it, as well as the west coast?

The game is being received rather well by the Brawl community. For the people that loved that game, the reception is rather positive.

 

[Beats]

I've mostly played Melee and a bit of PM in the past before Smash 4 and I like it. There are only a couple of things that keep me from really enjoying/loving the game.

 

[mbpm1]

Yo dat old ass SF2 on Art's stream was hype

 

[Joule]

Yo dat old ass SF2 on Art's stream was hype

That was too good. Couldn't stop watching and laughing. Those kids were legit.

 

[BakedYams]

FGC-GAF, what do you think makes a competitive game? I'm arguing over here with someone that speed and technicality aren't the only things that make a game competitive. Hell it can be simple and not as fast as other games but still be competitive. Your thoughts?

 

[Rhapsody]

I've mostly played Melee and a bit of PM in the past before Smash 4 and I like it. There are only a couple of things that keep me from really enjoying/loving the game.

I think for the current direction of Smash, it's slowly getting there. There's still quite a few things I'd have them change.

Also, my patience is wearing thin on the game by how people play. It's creating certain habits where I'm just not enjoying it as much unfortunately. If it ends up being how competitively play turns out, I'm backing out. I feel like it fixed some of Brawl's problems and added new ones.

 

[mbpm1]

FGC-GAF, what do you think makes a competitive game? I'm arguing over here with someone that speed and technicality aren't the only things that make a game competitive. Hell it can be simple and not as fast as other games but still be competitive. Your thoughts?

Okizeme

 

[QisTopTier]

FGC-GAF, what do you think makes a competitive game? I'm arguing over here with someone that speed and technicality aren't the only things that make a game competitive. Hell it can be simple and not as fast as other games but still be competitive. Your thoughts?

People play it and want to test each other to see who is better at it. Rock Paper Scissors can be competitive

I think for the current direction of Smash, it's slowly getting there. There's still quite a few things I'd have them change.

Also, my patience is wearing thin on the game by how people play. It's creating certain habits where I'm just not enjoying it as much unfortunately. If it ends up being how competitively play turns out, I'm backing out. I feel like it fixed some of Brawl's problems and added new ones.

What do you mean, the passive agressive playstyles getting you down?

 

[Karsticles]

FGC-GAF, what do you think makes a competitive game? I'm arguing over here with someone that speed and technicality aren't the only things that make a game competitive. Hell it can be simple and not as fast as other games but still be competitive. Your thoughts?

Competitive only means that it can exist in the form of a competition. Competition merely means skills are being measured between two or more individuals to determine superiority. Cheerleeding, chess, Street Fighter, and swimming can all be competitive events. All fighting games are inherently competitive.

 

[fader]

FGC-GAF, what do you think makes a competitive game? I'm arguing over here with someone that speed and technicality aren't the only things that make a game competitive. Hell it can be simple and not as fast as other games but still be competitive. Your thoughts?

a competitive game is two opposing forces competing for a prize that only one of them can get, victory. the game can be chess, tic-tac-toe, or a game of jacks. technicality of a game does not make it competitive.

 

[BakedYams]

People play it and want to test each other to see who is better at it. Rock Paper Scissors can be competitive

He was using Brawl vs Melee as an argument and why Brawl failed at the competitive level. People still played the game after many dispersed. Also mentioning that the only games popular nowadays are fast and technical ones. I'm just frustrated I have to deal with a hardheaded person.

a competitive game is two opposing forces competing for a prize that only one of them can get. the game can be chess, tic-tac-toe, or a game of jacks. technicality of a game does not make it competitive.

alright let me be specific, a competitive FIGHTING game. i didn't clarify that in my previous statement.

 

[Anne]

FGC-GAF, what do you think makes a competitive game? I'm arguing over here with someone that speed and technicality aren't the only things that make a game competitive. Hell it can be simple and not as fast as other games but still be competitive. Your thoughts?

S E T P L A Y

 

[fader]

He was using Brawl vs Melee as an argument and why Brawl failed at the competitive level. People still played the game after many dispersed after it. Also mentioning that the only games popular nowadays are fast and technical ones. I'm just frustrated I have to deal with a hardheaded person.



alright let me be specific, a competitive FIGHTING game. i didn't clarify that in my previous statement.

oh. Just tell them divekick is a fighting game that's competitive then they wont have a retort.

He was using Brawl vs Melee as an argument and why Brawl failed at the competitive level. People still played the game after many dispersed. Also mentioning that the only games popular nowadays are fast and technical ones. I'm just frustrated I have to deal with a hardheaded person.

ok that just seems like a subjective argument on his part. Brawl didn't "fail" competitively. He failed for him. People still play brawl competitively even without Project M

 

["God's Beard!"]

Do you know how to low hover with Peach?


1) AFAIK, Omega Mode is intended to have all the tournament value of UMvC3's H&H mode.

2) Not sure how anyone here would gauge that.

3) Mixed reception. Brawl players universally love it, Melee/PM players are split between loving it despite not being Melee/PM and hating it for not being Melee/PM.


I love that about PS+. It lets me know what I really value. Bioshock Infinite? Still haven't turned it on. Ditto for DmC. I've almost finished Strider though, and I want to find time to play Binding of Isaac. It just isn't the right time with Smash and Xrd coming out. Maybe over the summer.

I know how you feel. It's like, why would I play Dragon Age when I can play 1/8th of Xrd? There's no time for a 50 hour game when I've got a 15 minute demo to play.

 

[BakedYams]

oh. Just tell them divekick is a fighting game that's competitive then they wont have a retort.

he'll just say its not competitive nowadays cause it isn't technical, using long term popularity as his argument.

 

[Karsticles]

The definition still holds, Yams.

Now, you might argue what makes for a good competitive event. Usually, fans of competitive events agree that "randomness" is a poor feature of a competitive event. Tic tac toe and rock paper scissors are generally not considered good competitive events for various reasons.

Brawl is generally agreed to be a poor competitive game because, at the minimum of tripping, which added a random, deeply punishing element that previous titles did not have. I agree with this sentiment. It also completely removed combos, and was sluggish and campy due to having an overly defensive disposition. In fighting games, it is generally not a good thing to have a game where the person to attack first is at a disadvantage. Proper offense should be rewarded.

If your friend isn't smart enough to know what the word competitive means, at some point you just have to let it go. Whether a game is played competitively is a measure of its popularity, not its capacity to be competitive.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";140929657]I know how you feel. It's like, why would I play Dragon Age when I can play 1/8th of Xrd? There's no time for a 50 hour game when I've got a 15 minute demo to play.[/QUOTE]
Damn straight. I used to love these 100+ hour JRPGs, but now I just think about how much time it takes away from fighting games. Is it really worth it? I even thought Vanquish was generally dull and a waste of my time. Except for the final boss. That was a fantastic experience.

 

[fader]

he'll just say its not competitive nowadays cause it isn't technical, using long term popularity as his argument.

so is he only arguing technicality? cause SF2 is the most basic fighting game ever made and people still host tournaments for it to this day.

The definition still holds, Yams.

Now, you might argue what makes for a good competitive event. Usually, fans of competitive events agree that "randomness" is a poor feature of a competitive event. Tic tac toe and rock paper scissors are generally not considered good competitive events for various reasons.

Brawl is generally agreed to be a poor competitive game because, at the minimum of tripping, which added a random, deeply punishing element that previous titles did not have. I agree with this sentiment. It also completely removed combos, and was sluggish and campy due to having an overly defensive disposition. In fighting games, it is generally not a good thing to have a game where the person to attack first is at a disadvantage. Proper offense should be rewarded.

If your friend isn't smart enough to know what the word competitive means, at some point you just have to let it go. Whether a game is played competitively is a measure of its popularity, not its capacity to be competitive.


Damn straight. I used to love these 100+ hour JRPGs, but now I just think about how much time it takes away from fighting games. Is it really worth it? I even thought Vanquish was generally dull and a waste of my time. Except for the final boss. That was a fantastic experience.

pretty much. The only way Brawl would "fail" competitively if they removed multi player and made it a single player platform game. (but then people would turn it into a speed run game and so i guess it still would be competitive...)

 

[enzo_gt]

Anyone following the Capcom PS4 game or Playstation Experience threads closely? I want to extract the facts out of both of those threads but it's your usual Sony hype thread fuckery and a lot of trolling in the latter.

I love that about PS+. It lets me know what I really value. Bioshock Infinite? Still haven't turned it on. Ditto for DmC. I've almost finished Strider though, and I want to find time to play Binding of Isaac. It just isn't the right time with Smash and Xrd coming out. Maybe over the summer.

Yeah, after playing Sleeping Dogs I kind of found out all the different things I take for granted in other open-world games that I absolutely need as a requisite for a game I want to spend more than 10 mins with.

The frustrating part though is that I tend to evaluate how much I'll like a game pretty accurately before I get them most of the time, so when the monthly offerings aren't to your interest, it kind of sucks. Never had interest for either of this month's games for PS+ before (was slightly interested in Driveclub, but..) and even now that I have them I don't really want to boot them up.

Injustice is fun. Good shit, enzo.

I'll have you know I bought All Stars Transformed that day too.

in case, y'know, you want my number or something

 

[Rhapsody]

What do you mean, the passive agressive playstyles getting you down?

What mostly bothers me is how confrontations end up. A player will go for something like an aerial or a dash attack eventually. If it ends up shielded, the attack will buffer roll/sidestep. Same goes for if you ever stop your jab combo from finishing. I feel like that things generally reset after each option instead of constant footsies. Brawl had some good aerial spacing back and forth because of being so floaty, even with the lack of shield stun.

Don't get me wrong, rolls aren't overpowered and can be read. It's just that generally the defender will go for either a shield grab or roll backwards.
With the options Smash 4 gives, I feel like it resets to an odd neutral or ends up with some weird flailing when you're close to the opponent.

Edit: I don't hate Smash 4, and I want to see Smash 4's community grow. I'll still play it for a tiny bit in tourney to help it.
But which games I'll actively stick around for is how much fun I get with it, personally.

 

[Karsticles]

Anyone following the Capcom PS4 game or Playstation Experience threads closely? I want to extract the facts out of both of those threads but it's your usual Sony hype thread fuckery and a lot of trolling in the latter.


Yeah, after playing Sleeping Dogs I kind of found out all the different things I take for granted in other open-world games that I absolutely need as a requisite for a game I want to spend more than 10 mins with.

The frustrating part though is that I tend to evaluate how much I'll like a game pretty accurately before I get them most of the time, so when the monthly offerings aren't to your interest, it kind of sucks. Never had interest for either of this month's games for PS+ before (was slightly interested in Driveclub, but..) and even now that I have them I don't really want to boot them up.

Agreed with all of this, Enzo. I am pretty good at knowing if I will like a game before I play it these days. I only buy 5 or so games a year as a result.

According to someone in the know in the PS Experience thread, we're going to see something that beats E3. Which means something bigger than Bloodborne. We'll see how true that is.

What mostly bothers me is how confrontations end up. A player will go for something like an aerial or a dash attack eventually. If it ends up shielded, the attack will buffer roll/sidestep. Same goes for if you ever stop your jab combo from finishing. I feel like that things generally reset after each option instead of constant footsies. Brawl had some good aerial spacing back and forth because of being so floaty, even with the lack of shield stun.

Don't get me wrong, rolls aren't overpowered and can be read. It's just that generally the defender will go for either a shield grab or roll backwards.
With the options Smash 4 gives, I feel like it resets to an odd neutral or ends up with some weird flailing when you're close to the opponent.

I think this is primarily a culprit in low level play. When I face against Shamrock on here, every single time I roll away I cringe as he punishes me. I have to play a constant aggressive footsies game if I want to stand a chance against him. Never rolling unless I must is one of my future goals in that game. People who try to shield or roll away from Bowser get eaten.

 

[mbpm1]

Yeah, after playing Sleeping Dogs I kind of found out all the different things I take for granted in other open-world games that I absolutely need as a requisite for a game I want to spend more than 10 mins with.

What things?

 

[BakedYams]

The definition still holds, Yams.

Now, you might argue what makes for a good competitive event. Usually, fans of competitive events agree that "randomness" is a poor feature of a competitive event. Tic tac toe and rock paper scissors are generally not considered good competitive events for various reasons.

Brawl is generally agreed to be a poor competitive game because, at the minimum of tripping, which added a random, deeply punishing element that previous titles did not have. I agree with this sentiment. It also completely removed combos, and was sluggish and campy due to having an overly defensive disposition. In fighting games, it is generally not a good thing to have a game where the person to attack first is at a disadvantage. Proper offense should be rewarded.

If your friend isn't smart enough to know what the word competitive means, at some point you just have to let it go.

Brawl was a poor competitive game, I agree, but it was still competitive. My argument is that a good competitive fighting game doesn't need speed and technicality to be extremely popular. I can't come up with a game that isn't SF2 or ST that won't shut him up, even though ST is a sped up version of SF2 with meter.

so is he only arguing technicality? cause SF2 is the most basic fighting game ever made and people still host tournaments for it to this day.

That's what I said and he decided to act like a stubborn mule saying it isn't like Marvel or SF4 popular to even say "Yeah, so? People still play Sonic Jam." I honestly don't know what to do to make this person open their eyes.

 

[Karsticles]

Brawl was a poor competitive game, I agree, but it was still competitive. My argument is that a good competitive fighting game doesn't need speed and technicality to be extremely popular. I can't come up with a game that isn't SF2 or ST that won't shut him up, even though ST is a sped up version of SF2 with meter.

Street Fighter is a game with medium technicality, and it is quite slow. Easy argument to win.

Edit: Actually, it means what you mean by "technicality". Clarify that if you think I am wrong.

 

[kirblar]

Sako should've gotten automatically qualified tbh

Totally agree. They need to fix that for next year, whoever wins this should be auto-Q'd.

 

[Seyavesh]

I feel like it has potential if only because there is 0 competition in the next-gen fighting game experience right now outside of Smash. You can only play a slightly different version of Street Fighter for so many years.

ehh, i feel like the next-gen thing is actually kinda hurtful for getting a game widely accepted by the general competitive player population. you're looking at another really significant investment in terms of console, game and controller at the very minimum which is already beyond a lot of folk's spending limit in regards to trying out new fgs. i wanna say that killer instinct is somewhat of an example for that, but there's also so many other details surrounding that game's unpopularity, too.

overall i just feel like this early in next-gen cycle means that both the player-base and TO-base won't really have the large numbers for console ownership for a next-gen game to really take off. i think whatever big fg (capcom probably...) releases next-gen in like 2016 or maybe late 2015 will probably be the next step for that kinda stuff.

edit:
xrd at the very minimum has the bonus of being on ps3 too, though that will come down to whether the ps3 version is the same gameplay-wise as all other versions for some 'legitimacy' or somethin'.
i think any next-gen fgs in 2015/maybe 2016 are probably gonna be cross-generation or on pc just to try and avoid that ownership kinda gap as much as possible

 

[BakedYams]

Street Fighter is a game with medium technicality, and it is quite slow. Easy argument to win.

I agree, I'll use that even though FADC will be used against me. The struggle

edit:

its as you said, SF4 has technicality to a medium level even though its slow. i cant use anime fighters cause those are just marvel on steroids. killer instinct might be a good example of a slow game that doesn't require much technical prowess.

FADC is the "medium". High technicality is stuff like plink dashing consistently in Marvel, or fast-falling aerials in Smash consistently.

If he refuses to concede, just set a date for when a "bad" fighter should fall off the map by. Then check up on Smash 4 at that time.

I'll do so even though he'll say Mango and other top Smash players aren't playing it competitively. Now you're starting to see what I mean by hardheaded.

 

[Karsticles]

I agree, I'll use that even though FADC will be used against me. The struggle

FADC is the "medium". High technicality is stuff like plink dashing consistently in Marvel, or fast-falling aerials in Smash consistently.

If he refuses to concede, just set a date for when a "bad" fighter should fall off the map by. Then check up on Smash 4 at that time.

 

[QisTopTier]

Anyone want to play smash?

 

[commanderpepper]

Nairo with the neutral b. So good.

 

[fader]

Anyone following the Capcom PS4 game or Playstation Experience threads closely? I want to extract the facts out of both of those threads but it's your usual Sony hype thread fuckery and a lot of trolling in the latter.

yea.. i couldn't stay in those threads. too many wishful thinking's and trolling

 

[enzo_gt]

Agreed with all of this, Enzo. I am pretty good at knowing if I will like a game before I play it these days. I only buy 5 or so games a year as a result.

According to someone in the know in the PS Experience thread, we're going to see something that beats E3. Which means something bigger than Bloodborne. We'll see how true that is.

Anything specific to fighting games or Capcom's game?

Seen mentions of [exclusive] SFV but it seems like wishful thinking as usual.

What things?

Driving mostly, but also a host of other things like interesting environment and city design.

 

[Professor Beef]

I'll have you know I bought All Stars Transformed that day too.

in case, y'know, you want my number or something

Just means you have good tastes.

 

[Karsticles]

Anything specific to fighting games or Capcom's game?

Seen mentions of [exclusive] SFV but it seems like wishful thinking as usual.

Nothing concrete. A few people were PMed with what's coming out, but it's impossible to tell whether folks are trolling or being real with the hints dropped. I still think SFV exclusive would be the most insane thing to happen this generation. Capcom would have to get a big bucket of cash from Sony to drop MS.

 

[Azure J]

Fuck Ness.

That is all.

 

[fader]

Nothing concrete. A few people were PMed with what's coming out, but it's impossible to tell whether folks are trolling or being real with the hints dropped. I still think SFV exclusive would be the most insane thing to happen this generation. Capcom would have to get a big bucket of cash from Sony to drop MS.

yea it would not be a good idea unless sony shoved buckets of money down their thoats but it's possible to combat KI being exclusive but I doubt anyone see's that as one of MS main chicken.

 

[Karsticles]

Fuck Ness.

That is all.

Were you watching him win the tournament just a moment ago?

yea it would not be a good idea unless sony shoved buckets of money down their thoats but it's possible to combat KI being exclusive but I doubt anyone see's that as one of MS main chicken.

And you would think that if Sony really cared about the FGC, they would be putting a little love in with GGXrd.

 

[BakedYams]

Just means you have bad tastes.

FTFY Kappa

 

[enzo_gt]

yea it would not be a good idea unless sony shoved buckets of money down their thoats but it's possible to combat KI being exclusive but I doubt anyone see's that as one of MS main chicken.

I don't even think it's a good idea even if that happens.

I don't think KI "needs" to be combatted or they would even want to. There are only a few genres where you need to compete in if last generation is anything to go by, and that's pretty much only shooters and racing games.

 

[fader]

And you would think that if Sony really cared about the FGC, they would be putting a little love in with GGXrd.

i kno right...

I don't even think it's a good idea even if that happens.

I don't think KI "needs" to be combatted or they would even want to. There are only a few genres where you need to compete in if last generation is anything to go by, and that's pretty much only shooters and racing games.

yea i was just theory crafting i really don't think KI needs to be combated. Also exclusive sports games are not a bad investment tbh.

 

[Rhapsody]

I think this is primarily a culprit in low level play. When I face against Shamrock on here, every single time I roll away I cringe as he punishes me. I have to play a constant aggressive footsies game if I want to stand a chance against him. Never rolling unless I must is one of my future goals in that game. People who try to shield or roll away from Bowser get eaten.

That can be true. I feel like some of it may linger in higher play, but definitely not abundant.
Seeing people use constant rolls as a form of movement and doing something like roll roll forward smash just makes me smh.

I'll keep an eye on watching tourney play and adjusting more afterwards.

Some of this salt comes from online, I will admit. Mostly from Greninja and Sheik players.

 

[Professor Beef]

FTFY Kappa

typical yams post no kappa

 

[ViewtifulJC]

typical yams post no kappa

damn, best buy black friday shoppers make Beef mean

 

[BakedYams]

typical yams post no kappa

Beef-senpai still doesn't look in my direction ;_;

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Who are the best characters in smash 4 and is one of them captain falcon?

 

[Karsticles]

Who are the best characters in smash 4 and is one of them captain falcon?

No one knows, and Captain Falcon is fantastic.

damn, best buy black friday shoppers make Beef mean

Beef's heart has always been in the frozen food isle.