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Dark Souls 2: Scholar of the First Sin announced for PS4/XBO/PC - April 2015
- Thread starter RoKKeR
- Start date
Hopefully From taking the pliers to the Soul Memory system gets people playing DS2 online together more, and keeps it as alive as the DS1 community is. (Sadly, DeS is kind of a ghost town)
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Well for the durability as a work-around couldn't they just raise the maximum value of all the weapons durability by X2 or X1.5? lol
But then the people at 30fps get extra durability, no?
CyberPunked
Member
Well you paid to play them a lot earlier. I wouldn't call that no reason.
Well, to me that's pointless because Crown of the Sunken King came out in October, maybe before?
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
They can use formulas or something to detect general fps region and make durability proportionate to that region >_>
Anyways that's really a PC problem because of customizable framerate. If PS4 and Xbone are at 60fps with dips then higher max durability would work.
We just got finished with October. Crown of the Sunken King came out like 5 months ago. Crown of the Ivory king was like 2 months ago (the third of the crowns dlcs)
CyberPunked
Member
So would you prefer they not give the DLC out for free at a later date? People who paid for the DLC still get what they paid for.
What reason does someone who bought those DLC have in buying this new update?
No, I think this Scholar of the First Sin should have been the only DLC.
If you want the new enemy layouts, 6 player online, and new graphics then buy it.
You get the story content and new areas in a free patch though.
At full price that seems a bit stupid.
'New graphics' and enemy layouts should have been there in the first place, maybe not on the last gen.
The original lighting is never coming back, but the lighting will probably be improved. This is a third version of the game, for all we know. (Most games go through several iterations during dev, but for the purpose of simplification we'll pretend the really old showing that people worship was the "first" version)
Most of the game takes place in outdoor, bright areas, so darker lighting wouldn't actually change anything for most of the game. Black Gulch has glowing green shit everywhere, and Shrine of Amana has glowing blue shit everywhere. There's a few areas of FoFG and Huntsman's Copse that are dark, and The Gutter, but then everything else is outdoor areas or is well lit. They decided to go for more variety in visual design (One of the early design ideas was that the entire game would be ice themed, but it was put aside because they wanted variety, which is probably why the game isn't dark+torches themed)
Think about it. Where else in the game is there an absense of light that a lighting engine swap would effect? DS1 just had more dark cave areas and unlit interiors than DS2 did.
It's another version of the game. If you don't want it don't buy it. I prefer to call it a Type 2 release, since that's more appropriate to how these japanese game rereleases go, rather than an upgrade.
It's comparable to MGS3 Subsistence, DMC3: Special Edition, or one of those Final Fantasy/Kingdom Hearts rereleases. (Every area apparently has major enemy revisions. The Dragons in Heide's Tower is just one example)
You still get the substantial story content from the base game as a free patch, which is the exciting part of this whole thing.
Responding to your edit: "Should have been there in the first place, maybe not on the last gen." What do you mean? I don't really understand...what you wrote. Do you mean the enemy changes should just be there already? They shouldn't, because that'd mean throwing away the old enemy layouts. It's two versions of the game, it'll be a different experience. It wouldn't make sense to just throw away the old enemy layouts.
Oh no, I do want it. I'm just not going to buy it.
....Okay? I don't get what you're going for here.
1) 'If you don't want it, don't buy it'.
2) I want to want it, but I'm going to skip it even though I really want it.
The current gen version is free, so you get to have that.
Also this is going in circles.
But then many people have different durability stats :/
Although depletion might be the same, everyone has different numbers and there is no set number for it one can display on the wiki/etc. But, yeah, it really is a PC problem.
SteamyPunk
Member
But you said there was no reason to buy it... So why do you want it?
I said if you already own the DLC (Crown of the Sunken King), which I don't, there is no reason to buy it because those features should be free on PC.
I didn't know, I haven't bought them yet.
It's confusing me too, but that's what happens when you make these kinds of confusing practices. All I originally said to that other poster was this would have made me annoyed if I had bought those Crown DLCs before this annoucement was made, why? because I would have felt like I bought those DLCs for no reason seeing how this new DLC is basically a better offer (new features plus the 3 DLCs). That's all, and that's putting aside the other issues such as fragmenting the community (you can't play with your freinds just because you don't have the 'right' version) and also this is basically telling us they could have had these features in the PC version to begin with in the orignal release, but they didn't because of money.
Not only did some of us have to wait almost two months extra for the PC version of this game (for w/e bullshit reason they spun back then), and some PC players double dipped because they couldn't wait, they want some of those people to potentially buy the game a third time because they couldn't be arsed to put those features in the first time?
...there are 3 dlc's, dude. Crown of the Sunken King was the first of 3 DLC's. There's still Crown of the Old Iron King and Crown of the Ivory King. You've said Sunken King so many times in this thread that I'm curious if you even know about the other two??? Alot of what you're saying is contradictory or is just not making any sense and I'm glad I'm not the only one getting confused.
if you don't have any of the THREE DLC's, then buying the DX11 version would be a massive value
The online player count and enemy layouts will be completely different between the DX9 and DX11 versions, so they are incompatible on those grounds. The userbase will be split because of the nature of the changes they're making to the game. it's like how Cataclysm changed World of Warcraft, except they're still letting people play the older version of the game as well. But naturally, vanilla wow and cataclysm wow would never be compatible because they're too different.
Clarification: You don't pay for the 4th dlc. it is a free patch. you don't get the other 3 dlc's with the 4th dlc, you still have to buy them unless you buy a boxed copy of this GotY edition of the game. If you already own DS2 you'll receive the 4th dlc, but if you don't already own the 3 crowns dlc's you won't get them for free. You have to buy a new copy of the game to get the dlc for "free". If you already bought them....then you already own the game so you'll just get the 4th dlc for free and you aren't being short changed at all.
It doesn't say that those features could have been on PC to begin with, because they're features that fundamentally change the game. It's a new version of the game. 6 players is more than 4, and changes the balance. new enemy layouts means that its a different experience playing through the game. It's entirely new dev time, debug, bug test, ect. THOSE are not features that would have been part of the base game. they're new in every sense of the word. (graphics are the only valid argument here)
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Hell YEAH I called it (like everyone else, lol) and I knew it'd be coming and as soon as my pc got busted I held strong and didn't,t cave in to the shitty performance of the ps360... proud of myself for once 
Haeleos
Member
The best solution for this on PC is to give the complete rerelease to those who purchased all 3 DLCs/Season Pass before April 7th 2015 and give the free patch version to those who did not. Then have one version available on Steam store for $39.99 as of April 7th called Dark Souls II: Scholar of the First Sin with a $19.99 "loyalty discount" upgrade for those that still own Dark Souls II without season pass.
DaciaJC
Gold Member
When it means losing all of your characters/progress and the ability to play with a substantial portion of the playerbase on the same platform? Nah, mate, I don't think so.
A lot of the playerbase will probably migrate.
If there's a discount for previous owners, I'd be surprised if 75%+ of the current active playerbase didn't switch over.
The two versions wouldn't work together. Different netcode for 6 players vs 4 players, and different enemy layouts between the dx9 and dx11 versions means they'd be incompatible.
Also, since the whole game's enemy layouts are remixed, you'd be replaying the whole thing anyways just to see it all, right?
With the different enemy layouts, and the overall improvements to soul memory mechanics and matchmaking they plan to make (according to the famitsu interview) I would expect most people will probably continue to play both, actually. It'll be easier to connect to players on the old version. Soul Memory is why that game randomly feels like a ghost town, when it's actually super-full of players across all platforms.
King Gilga
Member
Bullshit reasons, not being able to import/migrate characters is straight up unforgivable.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
It would give me a reason to replay the game again.
Lumination
'enry 'ollins
Did they do anything about the spawn limits? Really killed the atmosphere my first runthrough. Burning that one item isn't a great substitute either.
Are you paying attention to the thread at all? The problem is whether or not they'll fix it for the new release or not.
I hope that enemy placements are the only "dramatic" change they plan on making. Maybe with the Soul Memory mechanic altered, MP won't be as fucked, but I hope they actually alter the game's locations and routes a bit.
Make it fresh and exciting! A PC port of the same game with some altered mechanics, changed enemy placements, and 1080p 60 FPS isn't worth $60 imo.
Make it fresh and exciting! A PC port of the same game with some altered mechanics, changed enemy placements, and 1080p 60 FPS isn't worth $60 imo.
Did you just ignore what I said? Different enemy layouts, different netcode. those are incompatibilities. There's no dragons in heide's tower on the old version of the game. there's no code to support 2 extra players to connect to you and sync up. Netcode has to be syncronized. They'd have to redo the netcode in the base game. That's way more than a PATCH. I'm talking specifically about the why the player bases wouldn't be compatible in netplay.
Someone will probably make a character importer tool, though.
Soul Memory is actually being relaxed abit, and there is going to be some way to adjust your soul memory. This is from the Famitsu interview on SotFS.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Damn son. How many tries did that take?
Apparently people like you don't exist, so you must be a liar xD
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I said it earlier, but I do not see why the PC should get special treatment in this case.
It has nothing to do with being limited in terms of hardware capabilities or technical limitations.
This is a different game to the original release of DS2 and that's how FROM is positioning it. It's a "Director's Cut" version, if you would. If you think us folks on PC deserve it simply because most of us won't have to buy new hardware to play the game, I don't see why console folks shouldn't get it for free, too. They paid the same amount for the game (probably more, actually), and could just as easily redeem a code on PS4/XBO to download the new version of the game.
There's nothing special about the PC platform that means any of us deserve this new version for free. Either all purchasers of DS2 do, or no one does.
I completely agree with this. People arguing that this should be free for PC users just because their hardware can probably support the new graphics are pretty much just arguing for this to never have been made in the first place. I'd rather have the option for it than not.
I'm going to buy it again on PS4 even though I already bought all the dlc on 360. I just want to unplug my 360 for good. New story content is cool and new enemy placements should shake things up again for my third playthrough.
The PC situation is BS but hey if you don't want to support this practice don't buy it. This seems like it does confirm that the PC version was downgraded for last gen though and splitting the player base is really weird. The way Namco set this up is still really confusing to me though I keep reading through what you get and don't get with the patch and whats in the new version. It's even more confusing for PC lol. Good thing I'm just sticking with the PS4 version then.
Edit: Nvm should have read OP lol. That's a bit easier to understand. My confusion stemmed from me listening to others explain it to me.
The PC situation is BS but hey if you don't want to support this practice don't buy it. This seems like it does confirm that the PC version was downgraded for last gen though and splitting the player base is really weird. The way Namco set this up is still really confusing to me though I keep reading through what you get and don't get with the patch and whats in the new version. It's even more confusing for PC lol. Good thing I'm just sticking with the PS4 version then.
Edit: Nvm should have read OP lol. That's a bit easier to understand. My confusion stemmed from me listening to others explain it to me.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
People defend it because it's not really crap. It's a pretty accepted practice in the industry that's been going on for over a decade and has been pretty well accepted up until now.
What games offer "director's cut versions" as patches or paid DLC? Development on them is branched in such a way that patching an old version simply won't work. Not that you probably care about that.
Splitting the community is just the same on PC as it is on anyone who owns the game on consoles and might be interested in picking up the next-gen version, which will be a lot of people. It's the same concern everywhere.
I'm a diehard PC gamer, but this level of entitlement from fellow PC gamers is really kind of disheartening. So much throwing console gamers under the bus as if they're second class citizens. Maybe some people take that "master race" shit a bit too seriously.
They aren't trying to get away with anything on the PC. There is absolutely zero reason they shouldn't be justified in charging the same price for the PC version as the PS4/XBO versions. Nothing about it is scummy unless you think putting out a remastered version at all is scummy.
I guess the time frame is a bit quick, but what would be an acceptable time frame, then? How much time must pass before a release is acceptable? People seemed pretty pleased about The Last of Us and GTA:V.
CountAntonius
Member
You need to stop comparing consoles to PC's.People are ok with Last of Us, GTA:V and DS2 because they were playing on nearly ten year old hardware that was worth under 200 dollars. Those aging systems held back development and the new ones that people paid 400 dollars for can unlock some of that potential. PC owners have had this hardware for years. I could understand it not being free but it should NOT be a full priced separate game which divedes the community and makes our save files useless. It's not necessary to do that on PC. Do you know why I believe they are doing it? Because they would have a hard time selling a free PC patch for full price on next gen consoles. That's all.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Please explain to me why how much you paid for hardware matters in the slightest about how much the game should cost? Do you think publishers should take into consideration how much a person spent on their PC when setting PC game prices? Maybe offer some kind of discount for dudes with SLI Titans? No, because it's fucking ridiculous.
There is zero technical reason that PC players should get this for free. They could give a free copy of the PS4/XBO version to anyone who purchased the Season Pass or all of the DLC, for example. There are any number of ways they could do it. There's no reason why they should feel obligated to do so, though. Getting paid for work done should not be an unacceptable practice, unless you are cynical and think they are not doing any work on this new version. It's a different game, no matter how much people don't want to recognize that.
They've changed the game enough that a simple patch would not suffice. Has there ever been a director's cut/improved version that was made available as a patch?
Also, none of the problems you mentioned are exclusive to the PC platform. No one's given a good reason why the PC should see special treatment.
I think people are just upset that they are charging for better graphics. All the pre release PC footage/screenshots lead people to believe the game would look great on that platform. Then the downgrade happened. The new DX11 version angers PC players since their PC could have handled the original graphics but were held back by last gen.
Now the newer consoles can handle better graphics and thus the PC will also be upgraded with graphics. So now the PC user base feel liked they're being nickled and dimed now that the "peasants" have better graphical capabilities.
At least how that's how I see it from posts I've read. I could be completely off base and if that's the case I'm happy to be corrected.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
That's how it reads to me, but it's ridiculous. It demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of how games are made, which is sad considering the hardcore nature of this board.
I doesn't matter if their PCs may have handled the graphics of the original version. Branching development and making a special version just for the PC just wasn't realistic.
Even if it were, we'd still probably be getting this new version with all of the enemy placement and gameplay changes. PC players would still be expected to pay for the new version that is a different game.
TheCongressman1
Member
The game could have been developed for PC with the cut content intact. They cut the content and decided to hash it out later. I guess it's easier to go back and develop later on than it is to codevelop two versions at the same time. That doesn't seem like a good reason to release almost exactly the same game so soon. Different enemy positions and extra story bits a 'new game' does not make. It is a new edition, and if released several years down the road, I could see that being received a lot better.
I'm mainly upset about this whole thing because of the misrepresentation of the PC version being enhanced at release, and how Namco decided to handle the situation when asked for an explanation. Had they been transparent I would have much less of a problem with all of this.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Why are we judging things about which we don't have the full details? Saying what makes a 'new game' is pretty subjective, too, and I imagine it would need to be quite the mountain for those who are enraged about this.
Also, you say "cut content," but what indication is that anything that was cut from the original release is being put back in this? From what they've shown, it certainly doesn't look like the original lighting is coming back. That would lead one to believe that this is new work.
What misrepresentation was there about the enhancements of the PC version at release? I don't recall anything of the sort. If you are talking about the lighting stuff, then if anything, that was a misrepresentation of the PS3 version. Either way, we got a better looking and playing game than the console versions with the original release. I don't see why people feel justified in demanding more. It even came out at a lower price point if I remember correctly.
Tries? 100s. What kind of people don't exist? Those who enjoy the game? I'm really amazed at the vocal hate the game gets. I really don't see why.
CountAntonius
Member
Because it's the same platform and not two different consoles. Again I never stated it should be free I stated it should not separate the communities.It's the same platform a year later at full price. If they charged 15 for the new content and just upgraded the existing games to the new engine it wouldn't be an issue, and from everything I've read the next gen graphics update is only bringing the new consoles to PC level graphics. So they are basically charging us for 6 player co op and new enemy placements.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
The PC is not a static platform like a console, meaning that, depending on how you look at it, it's always the same or constantly changing. Regardless, I don't see how that means it should receive special treatment. This is a different game. The separate communities issue is in no way exclusive to the PC version. Do you not think people will be leaving the PS3/360 versions for the PS4/XBO versions?
First you say it's a new engine and then you say there are no changes to the graphics. I don't know what to make of that, but either way, I don't see the point in arguing over things we don't know the extent of yet. Make the value judgment when we know more about the game. If it really is just 6 player co-op and new enemy placements, then it probably will not be worth the money.
CountAntonius
Member
It's necessary on console's it's unnecessary on PC. That's my opinion until they prove that they really couldn't make it an update(ON PC). It's not about special treatment.