• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Star Wars The Force Awakens Trailer

Status
Not open for further replies.
Cheebo said:
They aren't going to explain it in the movie I guarantee you, it's a forgone conclusion stormtroopers aren't clones. They aren't clones in the original trilogy.
Click to expand...

Before the prequels came out, back when I was a kid seeing the original trilogy, storm troopers were believed to be androids by me and my friends. It was the only explanation we had about what they were based on the original trilogy. Nothing was explicitly said that they were humanoids even.

Then Attack of the Clones changed that line of thinking.
 
chicko1983 said:
Before the prequels came out, back when I was a kid seeing the original trilogy, storm troopers were believed to be androids by me and my friends. It was the only explanation we had about what they were based on the original trilogy. Nothing was explicitly said that they were humanoids even.

Then Attack of the Clones changed that line of thinking.
Click to expand...

The fact that they can be shot and killed, and their armor can be taken off and worn, and have voices and individual personalities different from a droids, and mind control, all say otherwise.
 
Natalie Portman was hot in Leon and Beautiful Girls, and has been hot ever since. There. I said it. She and I are roughly the same age and I had a huge crush on her in my mid-teens.
 
chicko1983 said:
Before the prequels came out, back when I was a kid seeing the original trilogy, storm troopers were believed to be androids by me and my friends. It was the only explanation we had about what they were based on the original trilogy. Nothing was explicitly said that they were humanoids even.

Then Attack of the Clones changed that line of thinking.
Click to expand...

What? Did you even pay attention to the films? Obi-Wan uses the Jedi mind trick on them. That right there should tell you they're no robots.
 
chicko1983 said:
Before the prequels came out, back when I was a kid seeing the original trilogy, storm troopers were believed to be androids by me and my friends. It was the only explanation we had about what they were based on the original trilogy. Nothing was explicitly said that they were humanoids even.

Then Attack of the Clones changed that line of thinking.
Click to expand...

Others have already pointed out how wrong you were but yea. I'm not sure what you were thinking.
 
lastplayed said:
Well Obi-Wan's jedi mind trick kinda implied they were people.
Click to expand...

Jaeger said:
The fact that they can be shot and killed, and their armor can be taken off and worn, and have voices and individual personalities different from a droids, and mind control, all say otherwise.
Click to expand...

yea, they might of implied they were people, but it could have just as easily been cyborg, clone or human. It could have even been some other humanoid alien race that can die from gunshot and is subject to jedi mind control.

Never once did it explicitly say what they were in the original trilogy. Tell me where and I'll happily conceed.

As I said, when I was a kid, me and my friends thought they were androids. Obviously that means they are not susceptible to mind control, but we were kids.

Attack of the Clones made it canon that they were clones up until the time of the end of Revenge of the Sith at least.

Somewhere, sometime after that, storm troopers have now become normal, enlisted humans (not clones).

I can guarantee you that they will give an explanation around how Boyega is a stormtrooper. Maybe it will just be him saying something along the lines of "....back when I enlisted to be a stormtrooper...", but they wont just leave it to the viewer to assume that all stormtroopers are unique at this time.
 
Let me put it this way: George Lucas' intent was for the stormtroopers to be clones. The original trilogy does not contradict anything from Attack of the Clones regarding what/who stormtroopers are. Yes they are different height but this was because of special effects limiting what GL could do during filming. Hence why he was happy to make them clones.

I got nothing against Boyega being a stormtrooper (I am dark skinned myself so I like he is a leading character) but there needs to be some sort of explaination as to how he became a stormtrooper, if he is not just in disguise.
 
chicko1983 said:
yea, they might of implied they were people, but it could have just as easily been cyborg, clone or human. It could have even been some other humanoid alien race that can die from gunshot and is subject to jedi mind control.

Never once did it explicitly say what they were in the original trilogy. Tell me where and I'll happily conceed.
Click to expand...

Explicitly? Nowhere, that's true. Implicitly? Luke and Han don stormtrooper armor, suggesting that it's a uniform, not droid plating. The Jedi mind tricks, as mentioned. Leia's height remark, which makes more sense directed to a human than a droid.

Edit: all these were already pointed out, I see. In any case, Luke's intention to go to the Imperial academy is a clear indication that the empire is recruiting non-clones. And before you argue that it's never stated what the academy is, in the Biggs deleted scene he mentions to Luke how he plans to defect to the rebellion, so Lucas clearly intended it to be a military training academy for non-clones even back then. None of this is irreconcilable with a clone trooper army having existed prior to the evens of ANH.
 
chicko1983 said:
Let me put it this way: George Lucas' intent was for the stormtroopers to be clones. The original trilogy does not contradict anything from Attack of the Clones regarding what/who stormtroopers are. Yes they are different height but this was because of special effects limiting what GL could do during filming. Hence why he was happy to make them clones.

I got nothing against Boyega being a stormtrooper (I am dark skinned myself so I like he is a leading character) but there needs to be some sort of explaination as to how he became a stormtrooper, if he is not just in disguise.
Click to expand...

In RotS, Jango clones piloted the Republic's ships. In ANH, Luke's buddy Biggs enlists with the Empire to get into pilot training, then ditches them after his training is complete to join the Rebellion. It is very clear that the Empire is no longer comprised completely of Jango clones.
 
Ocaso said:
Explicitly? Nowhere, that's true. Implicitly? Luke and Han don stormtrooper armor, suggesting that it's a uniform, not droid plating. The Jedi mind tricks, as mentioned. Leia's height remark, which makes more sense directed to a human than a droid.
Click to expand...

I accept they are not droids - I was a kid when I thought that.

I havent been told in the movies anywhere that they are not clones. Which is why they need to explain how Boyega has become a stormtrooper in this film.

All it will take is a throw away line such as "storm troopers are no longer clones" said by someone.
 
chicko1983 said:
I got nothing against Boyega being a stormtrooper (I am dark skinned myself so I like he is a leading character) but there needs to be some sort of explaination as to how he became a stormtrooper, if he is not just in disguise.
Click to expand...

No there doesn't. Its an establish fact in Star Wars canon that stormtroopers are NOT clones and were not in the original trilogy. The only people who care about sort of nonsense this are Star Wars fans and Star Wars fans are watching Rebels where they point blank show and dedicate an entire episode to the fact stormtroopers are recruits, including black recruits.

Lucasfilm has gone on record the troopers in the original trilogy are not clones. They show them not to be clones in the canonical show Rebels which is prior to the original trilogy as well.

I am 100% positive Force Awakens is not dedicating screen time to explaining this.

chicko1983 said:
I accept they are not droids - I was a kid when I thought that.

I havent been told in the movies anywhere that they are not clones. Which is why they need to explain how Boyega has become a stormtrooper in this film.

All it will take is a throw away line such as "storm troopers are no longer clones" said by someone.
Click to expand...
And you have been told on Rebels which is a tv show in canon with the films, the people who care about these small details are watching that show.

Why would anyone say that anyway? That is absurd. None of the main characters in the film were even alive when they were still clones. They haven't been clones for over 40 years by the time we get to the movie.
 
chicko1983 said:
Let me put it this way: George Lucas' intent was for the stormtroopers to be clones. The original trilogy does not contradict anything from Attack of the Clones regarding what/who stormtroopers are. Yes they are different height but this was because of special effects limiting what GL could do during filming. Hence why he was happy to make them clones.

I got nothing against Boyega being a stormtrooper (I am dark skinned myself so I like he is a leading character) but there needs to be some sort of explaination as to how he became a stormtrooper, if he is not just in disguise.
Click to expand...

By the time of the Rebellion, the Empire's Troopers consisted of some Jango clones and an ever increasing number of regular recruits. Clone production was significantly reduced after the Kamino Uprising. Many of the remaining Jango clones would have been killed during the destruction of the Death Star.
 
Boof said:
LOLOLOL @ the dude in the black shirt behind her.... someone plz crop that dudes face out!
Click to expand...

o5wQPrz.jpg


Amen, brother. Amen.
 
chicko1983 said:
in what way?

Explain to me how Boyega can be a stormtrooper without telling me something that hasnt been said in the movies?
Click to expand...

All they need to do is show him taking off his helmet, and people will be like "oh they're not clones any more I guess" if they even cared in the first place. I don't think they need to get into specifics. That's what made the OT great, they didn't feel the need to explain every little detail like the PT did.
 
I feel like in the eventual full-on trailer, Abrams will briefly show the Sith individual using the lightsaber side blade things to slice off a dude's hand or something to hush everyone up about them.

Wait, who am I kidding, that will probably just open up a whole new can of worms.
 
chicko1983 said:
in what way?
Click to expand...

image.php


Information can be communicated in a movie through means other than dialogue. You can try to retcon the information you're given, sure, but that doesn't mean the information isn't there.

The clones in Episode II & III are uniform height, weight, have the same face and the same voice. You see them doing almost every possible job there is EXCEPT for filling Officer roles or Jedi roles, so that means pilots? Clones. Gunners? Clones. Troopers? Clones. Technicians? Clones. The visual information is there in the prequels. Either you're a Jedi, you're an officer, or you're a Clone. That's your republic army.

Then the republic becomes the Empire.

Look at the Empire in the original trilogy. The stormtroopers have different heights, different voices - and Lucas made sure to NOT overdub all the trooper dialog with Temuera Morrison, the way he did Boba Fett. He easily could have. It would have taken Morrison what, another 3 minutes? But that decision wasn't made. There's a reason for that. Plus, keep in mind that the Academy Luke wants to join is an IMPERIAL academy. What do you think they're training for? Those people are in that academy to become pilots and troopers and hopefully even officers. If Stormtroopers, TIE pilots, gunners, technicians etc. are all Clones, then why are you opening academies and having people train for those positions?

You're wrong.
 
Windam said:
By the time of the Rebellion, the Empire's Troopers consisted of some Jango clones and an ever increasing number of regular recruits. Clone production was significantly reduced after the Kamino Uprising. Many of the remaining Jango clones would have been killed during the destruction of the Death Star.
Click to expand...

They were phased out of action by at least 5 years prior to A New Hope. Official statement on this from Lucasfilm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_6zOjTrI5w#t=3m00s
 
The movie doesn't need to spell out they're not clones and you don't need to know any lore, if someone that thought they were clones and sees that they aren't can just piece things together. Not everything needs to be spoonfed.
 
The Boat said:
The movie doesn't need to spell out they're not clones and you don't need to know any lore, if someone that thought they were clones and sees that they aren't can just piece things together. Not everything needs to be spoonfed.
Click to expand...

And this is Star Wars, not Star Trek. Stuff like that is rarely ever spelled out on screen in a movie in this franchise. Not to mention for the people who do care about that level of stuff there was an entire episode of Rebels that spelled it out already!
 
The Boat said:
The movie doesn't need to spell out they're not clones and you don't need to know any lore, if someone that thought they were clones and sees that they aren't can just piece things together. Not everything needs to be spoonfed.
Click to expand...

Apparently it does though...
 
injurai said:
Apparently it does though...
Click to expand...

But it won't and no one is going to be confused. Anyone who is concerned about whether stormtroopers are recruits or clones is the type of audience the Star Wars tv shows are for which explains these small details already.

Look, it was never explained on screen in a movie how Qui-Gon learned to become a ghost and contact Obi-Wan and Yoda. It was cut out of Revenge of the Sith. That is a bigger than clones vs. recruits in terms of the story. But for the type of people who care about these type of details The Clone Wars animated series explained it on screen. Just like this little detail was explained on screen in Rebels.

Know what else? Obi-Wan left Anakin for dead and didn't know he survived or became all mechanical. But we are smart enough to assume he figured it out before ANH. Again, not everything needs to be spelled out.
 
chicko1983 said:
I accept they are not droids - I was a kid when I thought that.

I havent been told in the movies anywhere that they are not clones. Which is why they need to explain how Boyega has become a stormtrooper in this film.

All it will take is a throw away line such as "storm troopers are no longer clones" said by someone.
Click to expand...

It kind of doesn't matter what you are going on about. There's enough evidence in the OT themselves to suggest they are humans, and in the animated series that is canon they show a storm trooper recruitment center. It's part of the canon that they aren't clones.

This video explicitly explains it (at 2:50): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_6zOjTrI5w#t=168
 
BobbyRoberts said:
image.php


Information can be communicated in a movie through means other than dialogue. You can try to retcon the information you're given, sure, but that doesn't mean the information isn't there.

The clones in Episode II & III are uniform height, weight, have the same face and the same voice. You see them doing almost every possible job there is EXCEPT for filling Officer roles or Jedi roles, so that means pilots? Clones. Gunners? Clones. Troopers? Clones. Technicians? Clones. The visual information is there in the prequels. Either you're a Jedi, you're an officer, or you're a Clone. That's your republic army.

Then the republic becomes the Empire.

Look at the Empire in the original trilogy. The stormtroopers have different heights, different voices - and Lucas made sure to NOT overdub all the trooper dialog with Temuera Morrison, the way he did Boba Fett. He easily could have. It would have taken Morrison what, another 3 minutes? But that decision wasn't made. There's a reason for that. Plus, keep in mind that the Academy Luke wants to join is an IMPERIAL academy. What do you think they're training for? Those people are in that academy to become pilots and troopers and hopefully even officers. If Stormtroopers, TIE pilots, gunners, technicians etc. are all Clones, then why are you opening academies and having people train for those positions?

You're wrong.
Click to expand...

No, I am not wrong. You have to also keep in mind that there were two versions of the A New Hope - one for the USA and one international. The international version, which I have seen, skips over Luke wanting to join the imperial academy or the scenes with Biggs.

Screenwriting 101: don't give the audience visual or audio information which contradicts what they audience already knows as fact without some sort of explaination. The explanation can be before or after the information is given, but you cannot assume that you know what the audience will assume and not give an explanation.

e.g. Prometheus. Look how that went down when the writer assumed people would "just get" the evolution of the black goo.
 
chicko1983 said:
No, I am not wrong. You have to also keep in mind that there were two versions of the A New Hope - one for the USA and one international. The international version, which I have seen, skips over Luke wanting to join the imperial academy or the scenes with Biggs.
Click to expand...

You are wrong. First of all it is explained on screen in rebels they are recruits. The people who care about these little details watch that show. And if they don't watch it that isn't up to Lucasfilm to explain it again, they already put it out there on screen. Second there is NO version of Star Wars that cuts that scene out. I guarantee you.
 
-griffy- said:
It kind of doesn't matter what you are going on about. There's enough evidence in the OT themselves to suggest they are humans, and in the animated series that is canon they show a storm trooper recruitment center. It's part of the canon that they aren't clones.

This video explicitly explains it (at 2:50): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_6zOjTrI5w#t=168
Click to expand...

again - 95% of people who will go watch Episode VII will not have seen the animation series.

I guarantee they will mention a recruitment center or explain how Boyega has become a stormtrooper in some sort of form in this film to cater for the majority of people who have not watched the animation series.
 
chicko1983 said:
again - 95% of people who will go watch Episode VII will not have seen the animation series.

I guarantee they will mention a recruitment center or explain how Boyega has become a stormtrooper in some sort of form in this film to cater for the majority of people who have not watched the animation series.
Click to expand...
You areassuming 95% of the people even care about the fact stormtroopers aren't clones. If you watch the originals you are beat over the head they aren't clones in the fact they don't sound like Jango unlike Boba and have varying heights anyway. Not to mention Luke mentioning wanting to join the academy to become one (which you are incorrect is in all cuts of the film)! They already mentioned a recruitment center in the original Star Wars movie.

It is explained already in the OT as well as Rebels, there is no reason to explain it a third time.
 
chicko1983 said:
I accept they are not droids - I was a kid when I thought that.

I havent been told in the movies anywhere that they are not clones. Which is why they need to explain how Boyega has become a stormtrooper in this film.

All it will take is a throw away line such as "storm troopers are no longer clones" said by someone.
Click to expand...

It's actually easy to prove: If they were still clones of Jango then Lucas would have insisted that all their lines in the movies be redubbed by Jango's actor. He's a crazy man and he did it for Boba Fett in ESB so we all know it's true.

Now you could easily say that maybe they are using new clones...okay then, so why not clones of Boyega? There, case closed, he could legitimately be a storm trooper. Now stop yer yammerin'.
 
TheGreatPotato said:
It's actually easy to prove: If they were still clones of Jango then Lucas would have insisted that all their lines in the movies be redubbed by Jango's actor. He's a crazy man and he did it for Boba Fett in ESB so we all know it's true.

Now you could easily say that maybe they are using new clones...okay then, so why not clones of Boyega? There, case closed. Now stop yer yammerin'.
Click to expand...

Yep and Luke talked multiple times in A New Hope about going off to the Imperial Academy. Which is to become a stormtrooper. It is beaten over the head that these are not clones both in previous movies and in Rebels. Just because he is still confused doesn't mean such a detail warrants a third explanation.
 
chicko1983 said:
No, I am not wrong. You have to also keep in mind that there were two versions of the A New Hope - one for the USA and one international. The international version, which I have seen, skips over Luke wanting to join the imperial academy or the scenes with Biggs.

Screenwriting 101: don't give the audience visual or audio information which contradicts what they audience already knows as fact without some sort of explaination. The explanation can be before or after the information is given, but you cannot assume that you know what the audience will assume and not give an explanation.

e.g. Prometheus. Look how that went down when the writer assumed people would "just get" the evolution of the black goo.
Click to expand...

Dude.... just stop. The troopers in IV-VI are not Fett template clones, they'd be too old. In the EU (which isn't canon, I know) they explained that the Empire utilized other clone templates. This was done to serve as an explanation as to why some troopers voices sound alike. But to say that the Empire's entire Stormtrooper force was comprised of clones in IV-VI is just completely incorrect.
 
darthbob said:
Dude.... just stop. The troopers in IV-VI are not Fett template clones, they'd be too old. In the EU (which isn't canon, I know) they explained that the Empire utilized other clone templates. This was done to serve as an explanation as to why some troopers voices sound alike. But to say that the Empire's entire Stormtrooper force was comprised of clones in IV-VI is just completely incorrect.
Click to expand...
I've always thought the implication is that clones have a short lifespan overall and most are basically grown at an accelerated rate. Therefor, they would have short lifespans or some varying degree of this.
 
Daisy Ridley sure looks good in the that trailer. She has a pretty face.

Dear God, what am I doing?! Uhh, crossguard broadsabers! Black stormtroopers! Soccer boop droids! JJ!
 
Big One said:
I've always thought the implication is that clones have a short lifespan overall and most are basically grown at an accelerated rate. Therefor, they would have short lifespans or some varying degree of this.
Click to expand...

The shortened lifespan is due to the accelerated growth, it doesn't really stop at a certain age although I'm not sure if the Kaminoans wouldn't be able to make that happen.

It's possible that the accelerated growth was just for the Grand Army of the Republic (GAR), since they needed to get troops on the front lines ASAP. Later on when everything was peaceful and the GAR was dissolved, Clones wouldn't need to have growth acceleration although obviously the Empire might have wanted to bolster their ranks quickly due to their conquest of the galaxy.
 
I never understood why Leia thought Luke was too short to be a stormtrooper, maybe it's because they are all the same, and therefore the same size.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Star Wars: Eyes Like Stars announced
2
75
1K
AJUMP23 replied
Star Wars: Visions Volume 3
5
355
RagnarokIV replied
Original trilogy characters are coming to Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge
10
184
Fbh replied
Star Wars Original Trilogy Theatrical Version restoration in the works
2
75
1K
mitch1971 replied
George Lucas and James Cameron on Star Wars Rebels and Terrorists
2
56
1K
kevboard replied
Top Bottom