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Legend of Korra Book 4: Balance |OT| A Feast of Crows
- Thread starter Satch
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"We don't take too kindly to character development around h'yeer!"
Atraveller
Banned
Why do you miss him?Fuck what happened to Tenzin this season?
I like Tenzin.
Atraveller
Banned
He was in the "mean well, but messed up a lot" camp too long, don't really like him.I like Tenzin.
Tenzin was one long showcase of stunning incompetence and while there are always multiple reasons for something failing narratively, Tenzin can be largely summed up by one glaring mistake:
The entire point of the mentor archetype is that they have knowledge the protagonist does not. This just wasn't the case with Tenzin.
At almost every point in the story, he was as ignorant and helpless to anything going on as korra. He didn't have any idea as to how to handle Amon, he didn't know about the spirit world when he needed to so Jinora had to pick up his slack... Despite him and Zaheer being the only air nomad history / philosophy buffs, he never attacks the validity of Zaheers beliefs. Of course Tenzin is mia for Kuvira. Korra needs some kind of guidance, so why in the world would she go to Tenzin when she has a perfectly good belligerent swamp lady or serial terrorist who can actually help her?
Failing those, she still has literally every other person on the show to give her advice, up to and including Kuvira. Anyone alive is more helpful than Tenzin at this point, though I wouldn't count Ghazan and Ming Hua's rotting corpses out of the running.
The entire point of the mentor archetype is that they have knowledge the protagonist does not. This just wasn't the case with Tenzin.
At almost every point in the story, he was as ignorant and helpless to anything going on as korra. He didn't have any idea as to how to handle Amon, he didn't know about the spirit world when he needed to so Jinora had to pick up his slack... Despite him and Zaheer being the only air nomad history / philosophy buffs, he never attacks the validity of Zaheers beliefs. Of course Tenzin is mia for Kuvira. Korra needs some kind of guidance, so why in the world would she go to Tenzin when she has a perfectly good belligerent swamp lady or serial terrorist who can actually help her?
Failing those, she still has literally every other person on the show to give her advice, up to and including Kuvira. Anyone alive is more helpful than Tenzin at this point, though I wouldn't count Ghazan and Ming Hua's rotting corpses out of the running.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Kuvira has the personality of a potato. Ugh.
crisdecuba
Member
Felt the "way too rushed" vibe throughout Korra...
WrenchNinja
Member
It's dumb. Where was the statement of "you are at your strongest in the spirit world" all of the other times she was there.
Would be better than spirit kaijus. Heard that happened somewhere, but naaaah nothing would use that as a finale! It's too stupid!
Only Three episodes left now. Two-part finale is on December 19th.
Wow, that's pretty soon. Season would have been better without that clip episode. It could have at least been more imaginative... At least TLA did their clip show in the form of a hilarious Fire Nation play.
I suppose this final is going to wrap up the Avatar series as a whole, as I don't see another Avatar based series materializing after Nick's mismanagement of Korra.
I suppose this final is going to wrap up the Avatar series as a whole, as I don't see another Avatar based series materializing after Nick's mismanagement of Korra.
I still can't get over that they severed Korra's connection with the other avatars in Book 2 and kept it that way. It's like if Peter Capaldi in Doctor Who completely forgot about the other guys.
I mean, it's that memory, that bloodline of connections that keeps that singular character alive through their regenerations. You can still say, "yeah, that's still Aang in there, that's still Roku, that's still Wan.. only.. different! And yet the same! It's the wondrous duality of nature whoaaaa dude."
You eradicate those connections, it's like killing off that character for real. So the last act of the Avatar series, in a way, was killing off its protagonist, and then limping to the finish with a slashed budget, and a divisive main character and plot.
My whole point is that it's a bit sad. That it ends like this.
I mean, it's that memory, that bloodline of connections that keeps that singular character alive through their regenerations. You can still say, "yeah, that's still Aang in there, that's still Roku, that's still Wan.. only.. different! And yet the same! It's the wondrous duality of nature whoaaaa dude."
You eradicate those connections, it's like killing off that character for real. So the last act of the Avatar series, in a way, was killing off its protagonist, and then limping to the finish with a slashed budget, and a divisive main character and plot.
My whole point is that it's a bit sad. That it ends like this.
Icyflamez96
Member
I think the spirits were a bit lame for their decision. I mean first they invade Republic City and force the people of Republic City to put up with them because lol Republic City . Then when Republic City is in danger, they just flee because they can and refuse to help defend it because lol Republic City.
I don't understand their morality (I think that'd be the word for it) of saying "you're just like Kuvira!"
Wtf? Kuvira is a dictator who throws other nationalities in prison camps and is trying to forcefully take Republic City using a super weapon (that only exists really because the Spirits were too stubborn to leave Republic City) and Korra just wants to protect her city.
Wow! Just like Kuvira!
I don't understand their morality (I think that'd be the word for it) of saying "you're just like Kuvira!"
Wtf? Kuvira is a dictator who throws other nationalities in prison camps and is trying to forcefully take Republic City using a super weapon (that only exists really because the Spirits were too stubborn to leave Republic City) and Korra just wants to protect her city.
Wow! Just like Kuvira!
WrenchNinja
Member
It was an especially stupid decision as Korra barely interacted with her past lives. She interacted with them all of...twice.
Outside of the artists themselves, we got a great story like Beginnings because the special chemistry of the show allowed it to be realized. There was this wild depth of the character's history that any young avatar in trouble could draw upon, no matter who they were -- like people draw upon gods and heroes for inspiration and strength, right? In that sense, the Avatar's legacy was immensely powerful. And we could also get a great story out of it. Basically anything you'd want to tell, could be, without limit. The victories, the defeats, and the tiny Iroh-like pleasures experienced over a thousand tumultuous life-times.
Now anyone who could've remembered any of that is dead or about to be, unless you want to factor spirits. But if you have an episode like that, you risk it becoming awkward as you could be thinking, "oh, wait, if the Avatar was still alive, we would've found out through their memories, and it would've been more personal for both us and whoever the current Avatar is because we have a connection with them. It'd've been a story from their perspective. Would've had more time for the good stuff too 'cuz we wouldn't have spent multiple episodes trying to seek this spirit out and -- " and the complications pile up.
This probably smacks of dream-like babble, and I'm sure half's down to shaking the morning cobwebs, but this comes down to any good show's beating heart, and what keeps that healthy. We wouldn't have this series without the idea of the Avatar. And now we're going as if the Avatar had never existed in the show's brilliant little world, as the memory is nearly dead. And we're ending that way too. And like Aang's friends and family, we'll be the last ones to keep the memories of when an Avatar was alive.
Now anyone who could've remembered any of that is dead or about to be, unless you want to factor spirits. But if you have an episode like that, you risk it becoming awkward as you could be thinking, "oh, wait, if the Avatar was still alive, we would've found out through their memories, and it would've been more personal for both us and whoever the current Avatar is because we have a connection with them. It'd've been a story from their perspective. Would've had more time for the good stuff too 'cuz we wouldn't have spent multiple episodes trying to seek this spirit out and -- " and the complications pile up.
This probably smacks of dream-like babble, and I'm sure half's down to shaking the morning cobwebs, but this comes down to any good show's beating heart, and what keeps that healthy. We wouldn't have this series without the idea of the Avatar. And now we're going as if the Avatar had never existed in the show's brilliant little world, as the memory is nearly dead. And we're ending that way too. And like Aang's friends and family, we'll be the last ones to keep the memories of when an Avatar was alive.
Icyflamez96
Member
The whole reason for the clip show was because Nick slashed the crew's budget. They couldn't animate much footage that was new.
Well at is the problem with having the strongest being in existence be the main character. It seemed like a good thing with the Last airbender. but I ultimately find that having the Avatar their ruins the need of even having a group of characters and the Avatar State just drills this point further.
The Last airbender got around to Aang's inexperience and even once he learned the elements. Zuko, Katara, and Toph all could do things Aang couldn't.
Even with Boiln's Lava bending and Mako's lightening it still feels like a needless team. If they do go back to the world, I want them to focus on random benders without the Avatar. See if they can carry a story without constant world ending stuff.
I've resigned myself to the fact that this series is going to go through the usual motions and not really surprise me at all.
And that's okay. I just hope it's entertaining and great to look at. It'd be a step down from Book 3, but in no way an unfitting end to the series considering the two seasons before it.
And that's okay. I just hope it's entertaining and great to look at. It'd be a step down from Book 3, but in no way an unfitting end to the series considering the two seasons before it.
That Dude John
Member
I think the spirits were a bit lame for their decision. I mean first they invade Republic City and force the people of Republic City to put up with them because lol Republic City . Then when Republic City is in danger, they just flee because they can and refuse to help defend it because lol Republic City.
I don't understand their morality (I think that'd be the word for it) of saying "you're just like Kuvira!"
Wtf? Kuvira is a dictator who throws other nationalities in prison camps and is trying to forcefully take Republic City using a super weapon (that only exists really because the Spirits were too stubborn to leave Republic City) and Korra just wants to protect her city.
Wow! Just like Kuvira!
I imagine it's more of a perspective kind of thing.
I think the spirits were a bit lame for their decision. I mean first they invade Republic City and force the people of Republic City to put up with them because lol Republic City . Then when Republic City is in danger, they just flee because they can and refuse to help defend it because lol Republic City.
I don't understand their morality (I think that'd be the word for it) of saying "you're just like Kuvira!"
Wtf? Kuvira is a dictator who throws other nationalities in prison camps and is trying to forcefully take Republic City using a super weapon (that only exists really because the Spirits were too stubborn to leave Republic City) and Korra just wants to protect her city.
Wow! Just like Kuvira!
Spirits ought to have a bit of a different perspective than humans do. Wan Shi Tong made the same accusation when the Gaang wanted to use his library for information against the Fire Nation. The fact that without that information, the Fire Nation would come and take the library away from Wan Shi Tong didn't seem to matter to it. It seems spirits are just flat out against the use of spirits for the purposes of war by humans, regardless of reasons.
Which...alright, I suppose, but I wish they'd give more of a reason why they feel that way. Like, does the use of their powers for violence just cause them pain or what? I don't know. That doesn't make much sense though. They reacted pretty violently when Kuvira started chopping down the forests. They obviously have a sense of self preservation that activates upon danger. Perhaps Kuvira actually needs to be attacking them for them to be able to defend themselves?
Really, it just seems like yet another convienent excuse to up the drama to make it so Korra can't Hulk Smash her way through Kuvira's army like she should be able to. But it really doesn't make much sense. If nothing else, Korra is the fucking avatar. The bridge between humans and spirits. I always thought that all the spirits were under some kind of mandate to help the avatar if he requests it, since that's what every spirit he encounters does, even the ones like Koh that hate his guts. But when Korra asks for assistance, they can't be assed to defend the home they've essentially invaded against a threat not just to humans but spirit kind in general?
I haven't been posting much in this thread (I don't like to rain on everyone's enthusiasm here) but I feel compelled to jump in here and say that I completely agree with you. I still think it was an extremely poor decision and I can't fathom why they did it.
They seem to have an obsession with this idea as well - in the ATLA comics they had Aang deliberately (and seemingly permanently) sever his connection to Roku, using a plot device they made up on the spot. It's bizarre. As you say, it's not as if the past lives meaningfully interfere with the plot or appear very often. I would understand if they were some perfect get-out clause for all problems, ala the sonic screwdriver of Doctor Who. But they weren't; in fact, their stories were often of failures and mistakes to learn from. They were an interesting and unusual part of the Avatar universe, a bit of flavouring that enhances the interest of the setting. I always find their scenes genuinely enjoyable - Roku's apperances often stole the show in ATLA and Wan's scenes in TLOK were equally compelling, as well as providing a change of pace and a great bit of variety.
Icyflamez96
Member
I actually still feel like the spirits will still end up helping in some way. Based Zaheer will convince them.
LupusWarrior
Neo Member
they will zahear him out
I haven't been really feeling the whole season.
Maybe because it's sort of a retread of AtLA when the first three seasons were so different.
Although it might make up for it if the ending says Aang and Zuko were wrong.
The Republic City is a blasphemy and the four nations were meant to be separate.
Friendly, and not in open war, but always ready to pop off without the avatar to wreck shit.
It would
-acknowledge even the first Avatar couldn't achieve peace.
-Be a nice bookend to the first series message.
-Show "Balance" for all it's good and bad.
It would be a pretty cynical ending for a kids show but it's ending so whatever.
Maybe because it's sort of a retread of AtLA when the first three seasons were so different.
Although it might make up for it if the ending says Aang and Zuko were wrong.
The Republic City is a blasphemy and the four nations were meant to be separate.
Friendly, and not in open war, but always ready to pop off without the avatar to wreck shit.
It would
-acknowledge even the first Avatar couldn't achieve peace.
-Be a nice bookend to the first series message.
-Show "Balance" for all it's good and bad.
It would be a pretty cynical ending for a kids show but it's ending so whatever.
Oh, so do I. I'm hoping that they didn't put that scene in there just for another Korra fail complete with wah-wah music. They'll come back at the needed time, I think. But htat doesn't really change the fact that them not helping now doesn't make much sense.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
no this sucks and just means you can't change stuff because "lol war"
Ricky Ricardo
Member
Well, a big problem with LoK is the cognitive dissonance between what it's trying to say and what it's showing. It's trying to preach a message of tolerance and inclusion, but it constantly works against that message with what the characters and the nations at large do. There is a conservative social order to the Avatar universe that we're actually told worked pretty well until it was thrown out of balance (by Azulon), and ever since the consequences of that imbalance has been radical change largely for the worse for the people in the universe.
It's actually quite difficult to see how the Republic City effort has been anything but lip service to a higher ideal, while helping to persist the imbalances the fire nation's war created and even find some new ones of its own (I feel like a broken record, but people often forget that Republic City's bender/non-bender power imbalance is actually the first of its kind we see in universe, with non-benders holding prominent positions all over the place in AtLA).
I think there's a real problem here and always has been, where the creators of the show haven't actually lined up what they want to say with what they really think and it comes out in their work. Or it's possible that they haven't really reconciled that the eastern religious orders they mine for the universe they've created are often deeply conservative and rigid, while their own views might tend towards more western humanist and even individualist ideas. This is a hard thing to resolve and I don't know if they've ever really been up to it.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
Tenzin is one of this show's greatest blunders, he's supposed to be a wise mentor yet never actually helped anyone and in fact was actually almost an antagonist during seasons 1,2 and 3. Even Bumi held up Aang's bloodline better.
He is, but not because of the reasons you have outlined.
Tenzin sucks because he is a failed deconstruction of the mentor archetype.
Part of the failure is due to the writers waffling on whether or not the character should be a deconstruction in the first place.
Even though Tenzin was mishandled this will always remain true.
Well the problem is the writers either don't have enough time or care to actually tackle a lot of issues. Like the non-bending one or the Spirit one, they rather sweep it under the rug. You know those two episodes we wasted on romance in season 1? They easily could have been used to show how non-benders live and what they have to go through. (No Asami does not count, she is rich)
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