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[Broly]

Em... I am not a huge fan of uncharted, but I can quite easily say rendering wise. ,UC 4 is doing quite a bit more.

It does look pretty poly starved on the rocks though.

Yes and ND is a first party studio that has to release the game on only 1 console, there is room for them to do more. All I'm saying is that if MGS5 looks that good (comparable to UC4) at 1080p/60, it's not out of the realm of possibility for ND to render UC4 at 1080p/60.

i think we're going to have to redefine what 'doesn't look much better' means

because this U4 demo curb stomped that shit.

?

I disagree.

But.., it's Naughty Dog.

So? The reason ND's games looked that good past gen is because Sony had a dedicated R&D team to research and utilise PS3's capabilities given it's architecture. More knowledgable developers (Sony first party) could push better visuals than less knowledgable. This time around the architecture of PS4 is such that no developer had a vastly different idea on how to render, it's an easy artichtecture to take advantage of.

 

[JonathanPower]

Because it doesnt. Hair are worse, shadow quality is lower and AA is not as perfect as in teaser.
I also think that cloths have lower quality shaders and textures.

I didn't expect a pre-alpha to match the reveal, but this comes pretty close.

So? The reason ND's games looked that good past gen is because Sony had a dedicated R&D team to research and utilise PS3's capabilities given it's architecture. More knowledgable developers (Sony first party) could push better visuals than less knowledgable. This time around the architecture of PS4 is such that no developer had a vastly different idea on how to render, it's an easy artichtecture to take advantage of.

They are the guys that wrote the PS4 graphic libraries though.

 

[vpance]

You would probably want to use a better non-compressed picture for comparison:

ACU does have SSS and the "eye textures" are about on par. With the clearer image you can also see that Elise does have some facial detail. Just because she doesn't have well-defined wrinkles, that does not negate her facial detail. Also, the texture work on her clothing is far superior to the UC4 shot. The Uncharted 4 shot is still very impressive though.

It's no contest when there's absolutely no eyelid occulsion casting onto the eyeball for Elise. That's a very jarring omission when you're trying to render a realistic looking face.

 

[Panajev2001a]

That's not wrong, that's entirely correct. The Order's resolution has the same pixel density as 1080p. It's 1:1 pixel mapping on a 1080p display, but it's not rendering an entire 1920x1080 image. It's rendering 1920x800. It's not being upscaled, so it has the same level of IQ a 1080p game would have, but it's simply not rendering a full 1080p, hence the letterboxing.

On the other side the wider aspect ratio will cause more objects to be visible at any given time in a game in which you will have most characters and background detail spread out horizontally so to speak. This will increase the load on the engine quite a bit.

 

[Blimblim]

Getting rid of detail in the image isn't an improvement.

Details are all still there, I wouldn't have touched anything if it meant getting rid of details.

Here is the original version:

This histogram on the right shows the levels of the colors for each line of the frame. True blacks should be right at the border of the orange on the left. Same for whites on the right.
No here is the fixed version:

The blacks are right where they should be, so are the whites.
All it did is introduce some banding, which is barely noticeable in conditions like in this video anyway. Banding something I'm willing to live with if it means correct levels

 

[-griffy-]

?

I disagree.

What we've seen of Uncharted 4 shows that it is obviously using more advanced tech, and on a basic level has higher fidelity effects than are present in Fox Engine games on PS4 (higher resolution shadows and textures, more accurate AO, etc). The IQ is better on an astronomical level (better anisotropic filtering, much cleaner anti-aliasing, alpha foliage and hair appears clean contrasted to the crosshatched mess present in Fox Engine). MGS Ground Zeroes/V looks pretty good considering it's running at 60fps. But it is far from a truly great looking, technical showcase of a game.

 

[Broly]

They are the guys that wrote the PS4 graphic libraries though.

They are indeed still first party and should be able to push PS4 to a higher level, but because PS4 is a relatively efficient console to develop for, I expect third parties to be able to optimise their games relatively easy visually and therefor I expect the gap between first party to be much, much smaller compared to past gen.

 

[Crossing Eden]

It's no contest when there's absolutely no eyelid occulsion casting onto the eyeball for Elise. That's a very jarring omission when you're trying to render a realistic looking face.

May not be the best for screenshots of her poker face but it's certainly animated as realistically as possible. I think a comparison with Elena would make more sense while also comparing Drake's older brother with Pierre Bellec, Mirabeau etc.

 

[Chinner]

With the better quality footage I'm not really seeing the downgrade. Actually I felt that, in the environment in the reveal trailer was a little disappointing, but they're looking very lush here.

The biggest difference and possible disappointment, is the change from 60fps to 30fps. I'm well aware that this is a pre-alpha, so I'll wait for Naughty Dog's comment.

 

[Gbraga]

Blimblim, do you think it was just this video or maybe something to do with their engine?

I remember that the demo level in The Last of Us was also "washed out", and a lot of people changed the display settings in-game to play the demo, but the actual game only had such issues in that exact same level, everywhere else blacks were black as they should be.

 

[Callibretto]

I'm curious how Elena plays into this because if they go back to the same thing as in Uncharted 3 where she got pissed he always went off on life-risking adventures and left him again, I'm going to be really annoyed. Uncharted 3 easily could have been the ending of the series with how it played out, so I'm wondering how Elena feels about Nate doing this again.

In the book Nate opens, there's something written that says "Call Elena" too, lol.

from what I've read about the story so far, my guess is that Drake did something bad to his brother in the past, maybe left him in jail or whatever, and now the brother comes back saying that Drake owe him (from the very first teaser trailer, the one with just voice over, I believe the actor got replaced and it's probably the brother).

so Drake felt guilty or some other reason that forced him to go treasure hunting with his brother. I think Elena can see if Drake is doing this out of greed for action or something actually very personal and important for Drake.

btw, I'm not convinced the new character is his actual brother. probably just another kid he met in the orphanage he was raised in and got close together, maybe even the one who inspire Drake to be treasure hunter too and take the name Drake for himself.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

You would probably want to use a better non-compressed picture for comparison:

ACU does have SSS and the "eye textures" are about on par. With the clearer image you can also see that Elise does have some facial detail. Just because she doesn't have well-defined wrinkles, that does not negate her facial detail. Also, the texture work on her clothing is far superior to the UC4 shot. The Uncharted 4 shot is still very impressive though.

AC:U has SSS for clothes but is very archaic since makes cloth materials behave like gecko meat. You can see the good use of SSS on Steve in his ears and lips and nose while Elise and every character has almost none. SSS on objects is different than the one on human skins since the latter is more demanding. ACU have all bells and whistles on characters only in cutscens while the ingame characters lack such adavanced details.Hell the closeup of gameplay Nathan at the beginning of the video clearly shows the use of this advanced SSS on his face.

 

[Broly]

What we've seen of Uncharted 4 shows that it is obviously using more advanced tech, and on a basic level has higher fidelity effects than are present in Fox Engine games on PS4 (higher resolution shadows and textures, more accurate AO, etc). The IQ is better on an astronomical level (better anisotropic filtering, much cleaner anti-aliasing, alpha foliage and hair appears clean contrasted to the crosshatched mess present in Fox Engine). MGS Ground Zeroes/V looks pretty good considering it's running at 60fps. But it is far from a truly great looking, technical showcase of a game.

Yes, UC4 is technically superior. All I'm saying, again, is that it's not out of the realm of possibility for UC4 to run an 1080p/60 given it's beeing developed by a key first party studio, if you look at how MGS5 looks which is a multiplat game developed by a third party (and is open world).

 

[nelsonroyale]

Yes and ND is a first party studio that has to release the game on only 1 console, there is room for them to do more. All I'm saying is that if MGS5 looks that good (comparable to UC4) at 1080p/60, it's not out of the realm of possibility for ND to render UC4 at 1080p/60.

?

I disagree.

So? The reason ND's games looked that good past gen is because Sony had a dedicated R&D team to research and utilise PS3's capabilities given it's architecture. More knowledgable developers (Sony first party) could push better visuals than less knowledgable. This time around the architecture of PS4 is such that no developer had a vastly different idea on how to render, it's an easy artichtecture to take advantage of.

Wait, i thought you were trying to prove MGSV was comparable? That should does the game no favours. I think MGSV looks pretty good, especially being 60fps...But even now many games surpass it visually. Infamous for instance looks much better visually than GZ.

It looks good just obviously cross gen. If it wasn't it would be very disappointing as a next gen only MGS.

 

[gafneo]

pros:
Fluid animations
Tomb Raider influences (climbing tools, humanized drake)
cinematic combat

cons:
looks less epic
might be too linear for its time
not a lot of nuance

 

[vpance]

That's one thing I didn't like about the level in U4. Gameplay wise it looks fun but it also looks so unrealistic with the low poly cliffs and rock faces, and funny alien world like vegetation placement. MGS jungle seems way more natural, and the climbing, wow

ND needs way better jungle and rock designers.

 

[Blimblim]

Blimblim, do you think it was just this video or maybe something to do with their engine?

I remember that the demo level in The Last of Us was also "washed out", and a lot of people changed the display settings in-game to play the demo, but the actual game only had such issues in that exact same level, everywhere else blacks were black as they should be.

It was 100% a capture and/or encoding issue. I've seen this happen countless times.

 

[jacksepticeye]

I said it yesterday and I'll say it again. I bet Drake's bro will die at the end. He will be all for Drake and treasure hunting, then double cross him, Drake won't let him escape or die cos of family bonds, Bro will save Nate near the end but die in the process redeeming himself for the touching scene with them as he dies.

Of course none of that could happen but I will sound cool if it does haha also throw in an Elena, Drake and Bro love triangle too for shits and giggles

.

Motion blur is helping this scene a LOT. Some more static shots when Snake is with Quiet look ghastly

 

[Draper]

Naughty Dog were the champs of yielding beautiful results on incredibly challenging hardware. The game has changed with the PS4. But that won't change their skill of crafting great dialogue and an engaging story.

 

[MastorofPuppetz]

Game looks amazing cannot wait. Multiplayer too I assume.

 

[BoboBrazil]

I think there will be some huge set pieces again in Uncharted 4, but they are saving those for e3 to show.

 

[Lord Error]

Bad AO does that, good AO does not.

Also, the AO stuff in TLOU requires hand placed arttist stuff.

Yeah, but it's actual real shadows, not some semi-fake looking outline. The only other released game I know that's doing it is I:SS. I wonder if they have some more automated solution for it, or it agin has to be hand-placed.

 

[gofreak]

Re. 'low poly rocks' - I'm not sure how low poly they actually are, but I think they're less natural by design to mark them out as climbable. I can understand why people might prefer all the terrain to look the same, but I don't think it was a poly budget issue here.

 

[Bandit1]

So I wonder if Drake's brother is supposed to be the voice in the original teaser trailer? Older brother using little Nate to help him get what he wants, older brother gets himself in trouble and Nathan just walks away. "You left me to rot in that hellhole... You owe me." In the demo Drake says to the corpse something like, "You see a guy come by here, with stupid ideas about pirate treasure?" So Drake is getting dragged along on a treasure hunt by his older brother because the older brother feels like Drake owes him maybe?

 

[Alienous]

Motion blur is helping this scene a LOT. Some more static shots when Snake is with Quiet look ghastly

Indeed. I'm really glad I don't have to experience Metal Gear Solid V as a series of still images.

 

[Dictator93]

Yeah, but it's actual real shadows, not some semi-fake looking outline. The only other released game I know that's doing it is I:SS. I wonder if they have some more automated solution for it, or it agin has to be hand-placed.

Everything I have seen of I:SS has just had normal SSAO (not ugly though).

Have any screens showing otherwise?

Also, this video did not have any obmb in it. Unlike a game like Ryse, where it is obvious, I could not find it at all in the footage when I watched it.

 

[ypo]

Yes and ND is a first party studio that has to release the game on only 1 console, there is room for them to do more. All I'm saying is that if MGS5 looks that good (comparable to UC4) at 1080p/60, it's not out of the realm of possibility for ND to render UC4 at 1080p/60.

?

I disagree.

why don't you show a MSG screenshot that doesn't have insane amount of blur in it so everyone can actually see the assets? All I see is blur blur more blur in that screenshot. Make it 1080p as well don't shrink it down.

 

[nelsonroyale]

That's one thing I didn't like about the level in U4. Gameplay wise it looks fun but it also looks so unrealistic with the low poly cliffs and rock faces, and funny alien world like vegetation placement. MGS jungle seems way more natural, and the climbing, wow

ND needs way better jungle and rock designers.

The cliffs aren't really low poly, just lacking in complex morphology, I agree MGSV has more variation there. FFXV does it better than MGSV even I think. Still rock textures are much higher quality than MGSV in this. Don't agree with the jungle. Looks much better in U4.

 

[VanWinkle]

Watched the video again, this one being the new video with the fixed colors/black levels. I found myself more impressed. Textures are all extremely hi-res, foliage density and interaction is just amazing, water and the way Nate interacts with it is truly some of the best I've seen, good volumetric smoke was on display, and the lighting looks less flat and bland. That being said, there is still a big issue to me of the geometry, and shaders based on the materials, where all the rocks, boulders, cliffs and the ground (discounting the vegetation) just have this last-gen look to them. I hope it gets sorted out, because there's a lot of promise here. It also sorely lacks motion blur, both screen- and object-based. UC2 and 3 had them but this demo video didn't yet, and that seemed odd.

 

[H4r4kiri]

i think we're going to have to redefine what 'doesn't look much better' means

because this U4 demo curb stomped that shit.

And we all know with a Curb Stomp you " got a hell of a finish kid "

 

[Conduit]

UC4 doesn't look much better than MGS5's/ground zeroes' jungle level and That's 1080p/60.

Yes, i know! You came to GAF a few days ago.

 

[Liamario]

Have naughty dog responded to the frame rate, beyond the fact that they locked it for the demo.

 

[benny_a]

good volumetric smoke was on display

I don't think there is volumetric smoke.

 

[Loris146]

MGS V , direct feed by Gamersyde :

Spoiler

More here http://www.gamersyde.com/game_images_2584_en.html

 

[NeoROCK]

This game looks fantastic.

 

[jacksepticeye]

Indeed. I'm really glad I don't have to experience Metal Gear Solid V as a series of still images.

Yes but you're not going to be playing the game sprinting the entire time either. His comparison is off.

Any game looks great in some shots and terrible in others, which was what I was getting at. MGS V does look good in that shot but not in others, same with the U4 gameplay

 

[Backfoggen]

Have we heard from Naughty Dog/Sony about the 30 fps thing?

 

[cackhyena]

That's one thing I didn't like about the level in U4. Gameplay wise it looks fun but it also looks so unrealistic with the low poly cliffs and rock faces, and funny alien world like vegetation placement. MGS jungle seems way more natural, and the climbing, wow

ND needs way better jungle and rock designers.

I agree with this. I don't know about the vegetation, but the rock faces and cliff sides looked far too made up, and oddly angular in an unnatural way. Hopefully someone goes in and reshapes some of that stuff. It's minor, but when you have someone like me (not the pickiest of observers compared to most of the insane people on gaf) noticing it...it could use a little love, I think.

 

[Lord Error]

ACU does have SSS and the "eye textures" are about on par. With the clearer image you can also see that Elise does have some facial detail. Just because she doesn't have well-defined wrinkles, that does not negate her facial detail. Also, the texture work on her clothing is far superior to the UC4 shot. The Uncharted 4 shot is still very impressive though.

Whatever the features, she looks fake as hell. Like a realdoll or something. And the facial animation in AC:U is a few classes down from what was shown in UC:4.

 

[EmptySpace]

yesterday it was downgrade now it is low poly?

i wonder what's in the menu for tomorrow.

 

[TAJ]

Yes and ND is a first party studio that has to release the game on only 1 console, there is room for them to do more. All I'm saying is that if MGS5 looks that good (comparable to UC4) at 1080p/60, it's not out of the realm of possibility for ND to render UC4 at 1080p/60.

?

I disagree.

The ground in MGSV is balder than my head. Cheap vegetation, too. But we already went over this.

 

[EatMyFace]

pros:
Fluid animations
Tomb Raider influences (climbing tools, humanized drake)
cinematic combat

cons:
looks less epic
might be too linear for its time
not a lot of nuance

Climbing tools were invented by tomb raider? Good to know.

 

[FloweryMarston]

guys pls

 

[Dictator93]

yesterday it was downgrade now it is low poly?

i wonder what's in the menu for tomorrow.

The rocks are, but everything else is pretty darn high poly. You know, that comes off a bit driveby post like to collectively discredit a discourse for no reason.

I don't think there is volumetric smoke.

It is definitely not really volumetric. Rather, overlapping sprites of an offline rendered volumetric effect. Pretty obvious actually.

 

[Alienous]

yesterday it was downgrade now it is low poly?

i wonder what's in the menu for tomorrow.

"Why isn't Nathan Drake's brother black?"

 

[Altered Juice]

Also, people here on NeoGAF are crazy nit-picking every single fucking blurry, macro-blocked, video screendump. It's amazing to behold.

when you look at the reactions on other sites everyone is like "beautiful!" and in this thread
someone was bothered by the water bottle clipping against the rocks.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

MGS5 is gonna look GREAT on P

Spoiler

C...

 

[i-Lo]

yesterday it was downgrade now it is low poly?

i wonder what's in the menu for tomorrow.

Everything is prebaked and the day after TLoU Remastered looks better... oh wait, the latter already happened. God damn backwardassday.

 

[Metalingus5150]

The game is a year away...jesus!
Same thing with Halo 5.
People are shown games early for the enjoyment of the gamer and it gets torn to shreds. Dx

 

[Bold One]

Because it doesnt. Hair are worse, shadow quality is lower and AA is not as perfect as in teaser.
I also think that cloths have lower quality shaders and textures.

'eye roll'

the reveal was at a different time of day lighting, wet textures giving a shimmering artifact effects which also changes how the clothes look.