Damn straight.
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Legend of Korra Book 4: Balance |OT| A Feast of Crows
- Thread starter Satch
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I don't think they were trying to tackle anything as intelligent as a deconstruction.
My idea of a deconstruction would require a specific reason for why Tenzin doesn't work. For example, lets say that his lessons were simply outdated to the modern age that Korra faces...or maybe he would have to admit that he doesn't really believe the airbending philosophies preaches, and really only does it because that's the expected role he was given in life by being the only airbender born from Aang. Or something that provides substance as to why he isn't getting through.
I don't get the impression of any of that. We know he taught Korra airbending positions (which seems wasted since she just uses it the way she uses firebending anyway), and otherwise didn't really have any meaningful lesson to give her during the whole Amon thing. In fact, the first episode has him close to making a mistake by turning Korra away back to the north pole, and the second has Korra flat out vindicating not following his teachings by learning airbending movement in the probending area. Then he couldn't bring her to the spirit world because....who the fuck knows, he couldn't but Jinora could because spirit magic. During the Zaheer thing, he did succeed in giving Korra a valuable lesson about change in the first episode, but otherwise he was pretty much entirely doing his own thing. And now, he's basically sitting in Rep City twiddling his thumbs while Korra is getting advice from a real airbending mentor.
He doesn't suck for any meaningful reason that would indicate a deconstruction, he... just sucks.
Icyflamez96
Member
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
I think you're giving the writers too much credit, he was probably supposed to be a wise mentor that sometimes fails because he's not hip enough to be in with the new generations, but he is neither wise nor a good mentor.
Astral Dog
Member
I would have liked if they advanced the plot using storyboards, with slighty different art direction, but im not sure how feasible that could be.
I swear there was a part when Bolin got a headache for thinking too much on this episode, but im not sure.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Out of all the moments in the whole show this is what you consider the writer's biggest misuse of the character?
He was happy that she hadn't betrayed them. You keep forgetting that Varric and him had no idea Kuvira was as psycho as she is now, and that Varric also thinks Zhu Li betrayed them. Is Varric an idiot?
Yeah he said "Thanks. I Kind of have a headache now." after coming up with the rescue plan. Coming up with a simple rescue plan is apparently too much strain for poor little Bolin's brain to handle.
Admiral Woofington
Member
I'm curious if the writers drastically changed from ATLA to Korra. I mean I doubt the creators write everything. In fact it'd be better if there was a drastic change in the writing department, as that's easily forgivable vs the original writers showing they ran out of ideas and couldn't fathom how to write comedy again when in S1 it was brilliant.
And I mean brilliant. Little instances of a fire nation dropping a shipmate overboard, only to discover that was the captain.
Or the episode with the predictions of love, where Aang outright pushes a girl out of the way when she's bothering him.
The biggest laugh I've had in the entire series of Korra is seeing old Aang doing the silly face.
And I mean brilliant. Little instances of a fire nation dropping a shipmate overboard, only to discover that was the captain.
Or the episode with the predictions of love, where Aang outright pushes a girl out of the way when she's bothering him.
The biggest laugh I've had in the entire series of Korra is seeing old Aang doing the silly face.
Something about it just rubbed me the wrong way, I mean the entire episode he's acting like an idiot and people are putting him down left and right and him just making that dopey face for what was already an obvious thing for many fans was just nothing short of frustrating to me as a viewer. As for Varrick I can't help but feel that both the characters have been reduced even further into gags and mood swings.
Yeah he made a lame joke about that.
Aaron Ehasz.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Oh don't get me wrong, the writer's emphasis that he's an idiot by having the douchey side of the Toph Clan constantly call him an idiot and him saying nothing to counter it is definitely annoying.
A normal human being after a point would have enough and tell them both to shut the hell up if they don't want a face full of lava.
JadedWriter
Member
All those years of trying to metal bend he just ate lead paint I'm sure of it.
If the metal is inside of me, then I can bend it outside of me.
Icyflamez96
Member
C++ is killing my soul right now man ARRGH
Icyflamez96
Member
FOR REAL man this is going to honestly bother me for a long time..... If they at least had like 3 or 4 20 episode seasons confirmed from that start and still ended up being disappointing, I wouldn't be as bothered about it... I feel like most of the problems I have with this show wouldn't be nearly as prominent if they had that type of structure from the start, regardless of whether or not Bryke thinks "mini series are where it's at!" ATLA wouldn't have been nearly as good, fleshed out, and in depth as it was with the structure that LoK has... Especially if we think about how nick only giving them 1 season from the start squandered potential...
Yes, definitely.
^^^ He was one of the best writers from A:TLA and he was unable to come back.
Admiral Woofington
Member
The only way they could save the show is if in the final episode it's shown the whole series was a failed tv production and the ending is the actors and writers all closing down the production and going to drink after their producers cancel the tv show.
Icyflamez96
Member
Maybe we're all on an episode of Punk'd and the last episode will reveal that the whole series was a joke and they have an even more beautifully animated, masterfully written Legend of Korra series with 5 seasons and 20 episodes per season with hour long episodes @_@
Infinite Justice
Member
i started to say this as a joke of sorts but as of late i'm seriously wondering if this is actually legit lol
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
Years from now we'll sadly see Korra, excluding Book 3, as the Star Wars Prequels of the Avatar universe, wondering about its unused potential.
Yeah so much wasted potential. Though I will say the music for Korra is one of the few things that it did much better than ATLA. Cain't wait to hear what Jeremy has lined up for the finale.
Bryan
If Ben ever comes to your corner of the world to play a Deru show, take my advice and do what you can to see/hear it. His 1979 performance is transformative. Its been an honor to watch his artistry grow since the high school kid with turntables I met in 1996."
Bryan
"Continuing these posts about lasts while they last I stopped by composer Jeremy Zuckermans studio today, his last day of working on the music for the final half hour of Korra. I cant wait for you all to hear his gorgeous, thrilling, powerful, emotional score. This guy scored 113 episodes of ATLA/LOK! Thank you for giving your incredible talents and dedication to the series, Jeremy!"
Bryan
"After visiting with Jeremy today, I headed over to sound designer Benjamin Wynns studio just as he finished uploading the massive sound effects session for the final episode of Korra. Ben did the sound design for 113 episodes of ATLA/LOK! Truly a soundbender Thanks for the insanely intricate and stellar sonics through all these years, Ben!
If Ben ever comes to your corner of the world to play a Deru show, take my advice and do what you can to see/hear it. His 1979 performance is transformative. Its been an honor to watch his artistry grow since the high school kid with turntables I met in 1996."
Bryan
Mashin Haters
Member
Kuviras the lamest metal bender holy shit.
outplayed so hard with these moves.
god that part was so good. I love the emphasis they give to her hands. Su is a badass.
TacticalFox88
Banned
ATLA had ten (TEN!!) writers. With all those people stirring the pot, it's a fucking miracle that shit worked even a tiny bit.
Dunno how that happened.
Dunno how that happened.
SilentMatthew
Member
They had more than 12-13 episodes per season.
First season of Korra only had 2 of the creators as writers plus an intern. We all know what happened to that season.
A Larger group of writers can make things easier and find flaws in story telling and other things better.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Why was that fight scene so good though
Why would it be a joke? He was the head writer.
Icyflamez96
Member
She pulled out the blades like
had suyin like
I have no idea where all you people get the good icons from
Uhhh, hadn't notice the bit with her hands. That's when she splits the panel in two for her armor. Nice detail.
But Kuvira was awesome in her own way. Pretty good analysis of the fight from Oliver Sava at the AV Club:
EDIT: I've been hearing a lot of complaints about Bolin, which is weird because I feel like his character has improved. Yeah, he's pretty dumb, but it's gotten much better after his adventure with Verrick. And his jokes aren't that painful anymore, thankfully, partially because he's been called out on them now.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Yet also cause a lot of inconsistencies, bickering about story direction, etc.
m_shortpants
Member
I like to call it the "George Lucas effect"
A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back, and ROTJ (to a lesser extent) were good because Lucas didn't have absolute authority on the films.
The prequels were those films, and well, you know....
Sometimes I get the feeling that Bryke feel like they are writing A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones tier material, when they aren't really.
Well, there's nothing unfair about treating the Avatar world with respect. It certainly deserves it -- it's a great fictional place with loads of potential. It could run as long as any show that's ever been on television, but it seems to not have proper backing to go the distance.
m_shortpants
Member
Sorry, I should've clarified. Bryke are great at world building and should absolutely be commended for creating the Avatar world, but I think their writing could use improvement.
Admiral Woofington
Member
It needs drastic improvement. The second you give up on trying to explain how something happens in-universe and just hope fans roll with it and come up with theories...
m_shortpants
Member
It depends on who the writers are, how well they can work together, what kind of story they're trying to craft,etc.. You can't really arbitrarily decide what can and cannot work together when you don't even know these people.
For my part, I find it unproductive to speculate on behind the scenes stuff for the most part. I feel it's obvious that there was some kind of shift between TLA and LoK, and whatever it was, it produced a less coherent story, but I can't really know without being there. But even if I knew what it was, what am I supposed to do? Throw the particular person whose fault it is under the bus? I can't really amend the situation as a fan, so I just consider it trivia. Interesting perhaps, but not particularly relevant to anything. The important thing is that the story failed in terms of narrative. The background production means little. Various great works of art have been produced under extremely tense circumstances between the creators. Various works of art have all but imploded in their badness the more control creators got over their works. And the reverse for each has been found as well. Even if we find what 'went wrong', we'd have no assurance we'd get what we want if it had been 'set right'.
Well, that is the main problem with Tenzin. He has many of the flaws we would expect, but lacks a throughline to make sense of them all.
This is why I think he is the writers attempt at deconstructing the archetype. I do not claim it is competently done (ha!), I simply think it would explain his rather puzzling characterization.
Essentially they took the standard wise mentor outline, shaded in a bunch of character flaws, called it a day and congratulated themselves on how much depth the character has.
If nothing else, a deconstruction would feature the story being aware and acknowledging that he is a failure. Shinji and Asuka breaking down through Evangelion doesn't just happen, the fact that the trauma is breaking them is discussed at large. Fairly often, when A Song of Ice and Fire does something subversive, a character will comment on how it's not the way it's supposed to be or is in typical fantasy stories.
Tenzin is a failure, but when does the story acknowledge that it's specifically him who is failing? If anything, the times that the story does choose to focus on his failure, it is reconciled in some way. Once Tenzin accepted Probending as a viable teaching method, Korra's airbending techniques got better (though it happened offscreen) and he was just helpless in understanding why she couldn't airbend. It's not that she could airbend and Tenzin just couldn't muster a way to teach her it (which would make it his fault), she just couldn't do it because....reasons. Then in season 3, we had him trying to mentor people other than Korra. Again, we see that he has trouble at first, but he adapts to the students, and they to him. For example, his advice about having a bald head was sound and once it was validated by one of the students, people were more inclined to listen to him.
The only time it was acknowledged was in season 2, with Jinora. But this wasn't a failure as a mentor per se and more of a failure as a friend. He wasn't trying to teach Korra to travel into the spirit world (which she learned on her own sometime in between season 2 and 3 apparently), he was just intending to carry her there. This would make him an ally rather than a teacher, since the teacgers job is to pass on knowledge and that wasn't the intent in this case. He was just trying to help in a supporting role.
These portrayals imply to me that the show intended him to be a hard to work with teacher since he sees things through a very traditional and rigid viewpoint. Very 'do it my way, or gfto." However, they do validate his methods. He's ultimately portrayed as someone hard to get along with, but a good mentor if you stick with him. That's not really a subversion. Yoda was a grouchy old man to Luke, but him sticking with him taught Luke what he needed, and Star Wars is pretty much as archtypical as it gets. Same with Pakku or Jeong Jeong were also hard to work with due to their problems, but they also knew their shit.
Tenzin wouldn't know his shit if it came out of his butthole, but that's not what the show is selling us. I think the intent was that he is a typical mentor figure to someone who is struggling with identity issues, not unlike Zuko and Iroh. I've made the comparison before. In the first two seasons, I feel like, barring the Makorra bs, Korra and Tenzin was the most focused relationship of the show. It was with Tenzin that Korra had her first breakdown with Amon, Tenzin who was trying to teach Korra airbending and fulfill her identity as the avatar. She threw in with Unalaq after Tenzin's 'betrayal' and their reconciliation was given more attention than Makorra's. Even the beginning of Season 3 has him giving her advice (and one of the few times he succeeded in his mentor role) on the whole spirit thing, and no one was more appreciative of Korra keeping the spirit gate open and bringing back the airbenders than Tenzin. We constantly wonder how Korra, Asami, Bolin and Mako managed to remain friends after all the BS they put each other through, but there is no question as to why Korra and Tenzin care for each other. It's just that it's more that he fulfills a father figure role for Korra more than anything. She can constantly count on his support when he's able to give it. But I never felt she grew because of Tenzin's influence, unlike Zuko did because of Iroh
That's the key of piece of the mentor figure that Tenzin is missing and why I think he's just a regular mentor archtype gone wrong rather than an attempt at a deconstruction. They had the close, fatherly support but not the actual substance that is meant to change Korra as a person. It seems to me that if it were a deconstruction, someone would have said "Hey, I know you really care about Korra and all, but don't you think you should maybe TEACH her something valuable here?" And if you'll remember, the most valuable lessons Iroh taught Zuko had nothing to do with firebending at all. All Tenzin ever taught her was how to blow wind, and that was offscreen.
Yeah, even though I'm enjoying this season, it's still a waste. Same goes for Book 1-2.
SO SAD. ;_; Just give us the soundtracks Nick.
Even during the Book 3 Commentary Bryke were pretty pissed that Jeremy hasn't won any awards for his music yet. I agree completely.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
I'm not disliking this season. It's better than Book 2 but nowhere near as good as Book 3. I just hope the finale is a good send off for the series since I doubt we'll ever get anything else.
LupusWarrior
Neo Member
all this thread does is complain. you make Korra sad 
. It's still a good show or you guys wouldn't be watching it.
. It's still a good show or you guys wouldn't be watching it.
That's not true, people still watch Sons of Anarchy.all this thread does is complain. you make Korra sad
JadedWriter
Member
Even Jojo's Bizarre Adventure explains it's bullshit.
Cloud Strife
Member
all this thread does is complain. you make Korra sad
With time invested, I just want to see how it ends. Book 3 gave me hope, but that hope is loooong gone.
JadedWriter
Member
I complain like a motherfucker, but I still like the show, it's just weird. I want it to do certain things, but it just refuses to do them.all this thread does is complain. you make Korra sad
My mother loves that show, I just can't find the time or energy to watch it...it just feels "weird" to me.
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