George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
When it comes to petty stuff like this, it is best just to ignore GAF.
A lot of people that aren't in GAF hate GAF.
A lot of people that aren't in GAF hate GAF.
Neil Druckmann talks about Nathan Drake mass murderer discussion, calls out NeoGAF
- Thread starter Dawg
- Start date
notworksafe
Member
Just the Sony fans.
Duxxy3
Member
Most of those games don't have the protagonist making jokes and laughing his ass off while murdering all of those people.
R3TRO
Member
Good advice.
FlyingSaucer
Banned
Can't really say I disagree. I litteraly stopped playing Uncharted 2 because I was shocked by how I felt the level of violence clashed with the overall bright atmopshere of the game and the protagonist being shown as a sympatic scoundrel.
CyclopsRock
Member
Teehee. One person dies in the first Rambo. That's a bad example!
Sorcerer Supreme
Member
He's right. People on this site overthink things way too much.
Drake's shitty one liners everytime he brutally murders someone probably drives the point home
BodiesWithoutOrgans
Member
Wow the game industry really hates Neogaf ? why ?
Better than stuff like Tomb Raider where Lara is all anxious about killing people then doing executions minutes later.
Indy does this numerous times.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Which is why they are bringing it to Uncharted 4!
snoopeasystreet
Member
Uncharted get it's the most because, killing aside, Drake comes off as a personable, well written dude. It makes the juxtaposition between comedic quips and sick headshots more glaring.
Murder is one of the best part of Indiana Jones, with the exception of the terrible Crystal Skull, so I agree. More murder! MORE!
Evil henchmen in pulp action films don't get to be actual human beings because they're casted to die by the hands of the good guy. They are fearless and relentless, who try to kill the protagonist no matter what because that is their sole purpose aside from falling off a railing or giving a Wilhelm scream as they inevitably die. Not so different from Uncharted.
Evil henchmen in pulp action films don't get to be actual human beings because they're casted to die by the hands of the good guy. They are fearless and relentless, who try to kill the protagonist no matter what because that is their sole purpose aside from falling off a railing or giving a Wilhelm scream as they inevitably die. Not so different from Uncharted.
If I was a game developer I would probably get tired of the negativity.
Death Metalist
Member
Same here. When you see threads like "BAYO 2 IMPLIED RAPE" and the recent Tekken 7 character, I hope to god developers ignore.
Just as long as they don't ignore when we talk about game breaking bugs, glitches and shitty practices.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Absolutely. I do take issue with him referencing gaf as a whole since the vast majority of us aren't batshit crazy
We're like a hard drug for developers. We occasionally give them the praise-fix that they crave, but most of the time we're just a reminder of their own insignificance and of the general depravity of mankind.
Um.. Saints Row, Just Cause?
ReplacementPelican
Member
Called Gaf out but I bet he's reading this thread right now.
You're all addicts, Druckmann, you love the criticism!
You're all addicts, Druckmann, you love the criticism!
styl3s
Member
I know he singled out GAF but this really applies to all groups.
It still pisses me off to this day that Bioware was strong armed into changing the ending.
This has bothered me for more than a decade. We're all probably going to die, you guys aren't being paid that well, and you're going to try to cap me with all this chaos around? This trope has been used to death.
As much shit Max Payne 3 got for its narrative, it portrayed how a man would function after experiencing a bunch of videogamey events. Max being addicted to pain killers due to him popping pills all the time during gameplay, being a alcoholic because he lost anything that mattered to him so that the videogame plot could continue in previous games. Enemies will be on the ground near death moaning in agony, the violence and gore is pretty damn realistic for being a game. Max feeling condemned and filled with guilt for being the best killer on the planet.
Max in Max Payne 3 is the logical end product for a videogame character, yet some people said he whined too much and that they wanted a more smarmy Max back.
chrominance
Member
I don't think he's wrong about how you're not supposed to take the number of people Drake kills as a literal body count. Except that a decent number of people DID notice a disconnect between Drake's character and the number of dudes he kills, even with the understanding that it's an action video game with guns and, yeah, you're expected to kill people. I couldn't really tell you why it's Uncharted of all games that suffers from this. Is it somehow justified better in other games? Are there elements of Drake's personality that make his body count especially egregious? Is it just a matter of the technology being good enough that we think of Drake as "more human" than a Bayonetta or a B.J. Blazkowicz? But I think these questions are worth asking when it comes to making the next Uncharted. Maybe Druckmann and co. have asked themselves these questions and have decided their comfort zone is different, which is fine, but I do think it's worth considering your audience's comfort zone as well.
That said, I'm guessing most people don't think very hard about Drake's mass murder, so in that sense Druckmann's making the right call.
That said, I'm guessing most people don't think very hard about Drake's mass murder, so in that sense Druckmann's making the right call.
ForsakenLotus
Member
I'm happy that I can just ignore how many people Nathan Drake kills and enjoy Uncharted for the pulpy, witty and action packs game it is. Wish everybody was capable of this.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Nowhere near the body counts from what I've heard. Granted I haven't played Uncharted, but any Ramboalike in gaming has more bodies dropped in two hours than most of those movies will have across a trilogy.
Shooting is the simplest way to engage a player in videogames. The simplest way to create a feeling of connection between player and character. This is why so many games rely on it.
What I find funny though, is even while poo-pooing GAF for having the opinion, they are actively redesigning the series to allow for someone to ignore wanton violence.
Intheflorsh
Banned
Sure, but if we look at the murder per minute ratio (MPMR) then UC is still way ahead.
IISANDERII
Member
"Ignore Neogaf as much as possible"
It's not possible at all, Neil.
It's not possible at all, Neil.
No.
His answer is to contextualize the medium's trappings and needs.
Most people playing Uncharted accept the body count, without even thinking about it as meaningful character development, unless someone else points it out.
It's not a bad point to make, and although searching for alternative methods (to killing) can actually lead to more interesting game mechanics, the obsession for "ludonarrative dissonance" is absolutely pedantic and overblown in my opinion.
It's only really a problem when you clumsily and intentionally bring attention to it, like the latest Tomb Raider did, then it becomes a narrative problem, because you've made it one.
I think Last of Us actually suffers from this a little more than Uncharted does, for the above reason.
Yes, by some reason these people think they're clever when they point out that fictitious action hero characters killing moustache twirling baddies without remorse means they're psychopaths in our real non-fictitious world. One of these days they're gonna notice that people aren't regenerating health after getting shot and come to the conclusion that tons of video game characters are demigods with superpowers!
Always-honest
Banned
Ignore Neogaf as a whole?... Damn.
Anyway, probably best
.
Anyway, probably best
.The tone of the rest of the game is Indy, when you spend so much time shooting at sponges, it detaches itself from that tone. That's not my biggest issue with action in Uncharted though, I just think it would be much better if they turn the amount of time you spend shooting down and make each encounter more meaningful.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
It's not so much the killing it's the "I didn't think twice about all game until I fight the final boss, then I'm all conflicted and shit."
COME ON!
or that in action films the protagonist also murders tons of dudes. I don't know if the indiana jones death count is as high as a video game, but they definitely have battles and shoot lots of badguys and don't slow down to ponder what they've done. it's a light hearted adventure movie. neil is 100% right.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
And this is the point Neil was making.
If you try to point out gameplay mechanics and just things engrained in the nature of that genre, and you're NOT doing a parody or attempting to be hyper critical, it's best to not bring it up as you will most likely invite far more scrutiny than would have happened if you just rolled with it.
publicpwnerer
Member
If that's all you fathomed from his response, then I suggest suing whatever educational institution you attended.
NullPointer
Member
This was something that bugged me about The Last of Us when I played it again on the PS4. I had thought that I could mostly sneak my way past some scenarios to avoid having to kill every last enemy, but nope. Too often I found myself needing to go back to the enemies and make sure every last one of em was taken down in order for the fire escape ladder to magically work, or for a door to magically unlock.
These are games, yes, and what I just described happens in a lot of them, sure, but the tone TLOU sets and has been sold upon is based upon being able to make those survival choices of when to engage and when its not worth it, the game doesn't always live up to that promise.
The Indy movies are also 2 hours long. Take their bodycounts in two hours and stretch it to 15 hours and it'll probably be similar.