dragonzdogma
Member
Day and night no?
You cant really compare those 2 shots, unless they have the same lightning.
IGN: Nathan Drake will use identical model in cutscene and gameplay.
- Thread starter Khalifa Jayy
- Start date
Day and night no?
You cant really compare those 2 shots, unless they have the same lightning.
Why? Why would you do this?
The whole downgrade stuff is still rather loose until we have actually seen the same cutscene again. Comparing scenes that have different lightning etc. is usually not all that valuable. Though the hair definitely looks worse to me in that newer picture.
The hair is always better at night...that's when we go to friday party!
Are you kdiding me? I thought everyone was joking about that. Hell, the skin shader, indirect lighting, the messier hair...etc...what's that a moonlit effect?
That was a great one too. Exact same feeling.
KainXVIII
Member
Relax, just a little joke here =)
DodgyGeezerFella
Member
As an off shoot of this, using identical models doesn't mean that they can't use all manner of different shaders, lighting etc to have a different fidelity during scenes that can handle as such - which should be considered a good thing as long as it isn't too jarring a transition. But yeah, there is a quality drop there if they are from the same scenes
VFX_Veteran
Banned
It's not really a joke image though.
The images on the right (the only ones I'm concerned with) are definitely real images. The bottom right looks significantly worse (shading/FX) than the top right (E3) irregardless if it's night or day.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Regardless of any downgrade talk when it comes to cutscenes, the example really shows how big of a difference in quality there can be between cutscenes and gameplay. Top is cutscene, bottom is presumably gameplay.
It shows just how pointless claiming an "identical model" is when it comes to visual quality.
With that said, the gameplay stuff still looks great.
The tricky thing especially is that Naughty Dog tends to evolve their story significantly throughout development, so it's entirely possible that the cutscene from the reveal trailer may end up taking place in a different location at a different time of day with Drake in a different physical state (less or more scrapes, etc) wearing different clothes. Or the cutscene may not even be in the game at all. By the time the game comes out it may not be possible to even do a true like for like comparison of that cutscene.
But it's also showing entirely different areas.
Goodacre0081
Member
bananafactory
Banned
The images in question are completely different areas, and so small and low res in that graphic that it's impossible to compare them.
hurricanes
Member
Joke post?
First one is pre-render fix cam trailer.
Second one is technical showcase of some aspects of an unfinished game.
with shitty img taking from shitty video ....
looool
TheBioLover
Member
Christ, that dumb image is about to become the new uncharted 3 "downgrade" image isn't it?
psn
Member
Night - day
Wet - dry
The lighting is also completely different.
This is also from the PSX gameplay footage:
http://a.pomf.se/wiwwkz.gif
But yeah, let's just pick the pictures we want to make a point.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
It was actually implied to be running in real time on the PS4. I guess "captured directly from a PS4" could mean "video file running on PS4," but I doubt they'd be that disingenuous.
While that looks really, really good, it's still of a much lower quality than the E3 cutscene reveal.
You know it.
VFX_Veteran
Banned
That doesn't matter. If you are showing the same shaders/FX, the game will look consistent irregardless of area.
If I put a shader on our character, I can place him in any lighting scene and any layout set, and it will still hold up otherwise the directors would complain about the quality of the character.
The quality of the actual gameplay from that PAX demo doesn't look like any frame of E3 trailer at all.
Amentallica
Unconfirmed Member
Who made that image? -_-
keltickennedy
Member
A "downgrade" really isn't fair to say. The reveal video was made specifically for E3 and rendered "in engine". It was never stated that it was taken out of a section of the final product. It's was pretty much a promo to get people hyped about the game and set the tone of the game. They weren't trying to fool anyone having it come across as gameplay.
Some guy on Reddit maybe? It was on the front page yesterday.
Yeah, and there's no way to know if the shaders are actually lower quality. Obviously the lighting is lower quality since one is a cutscene that can have precisely placed lighting based on the animations and staging of the scene. The other is from an open gameplay section that by necessity can't have as refined lighting due to the unpredictability of player movement. You yourself have stated as much, I recall.
It's no different than in film, really. One controlled scene shot mostly in closeup on a single camera can have perfect lighting because it can be placed and positioned for each individual shot. But a larger action scene with a complicated special effect/stunt with extras all over and thereby shot with 10 different cameras for adequate coverage will not have as precise of lighting.
You can't just eyeball two completely different scenarios based on compressed footage in different contexts and truthfully say "The shaders/lighting are obviously lower quality."
psn
Member
Because it is not a cutscene. And still, wet surface, different lightning...
Compare the driveclub gameplay videos in the rain with a sunny gameplay video. If they would've showed the rainy gameplay from driveclub first and the dry ones after, people would also claim that there had been a downgrade. Furthermore,
Corrinne Yu said it's realtime, not prerendered. If the gameplay would be 60fps and the cutscenes 30fps, it would be definitely doable.
I mean, look at the cutscene models shown in the PSX video.
http://i.imgur.com/SRjMZCO.jpg
I still don't believe there will be much of a downgrade. It's still pre-alpha.
It still is, and the comments are even more embarrassing than the picture itself.
...some people are crazy. I don't understand how anyone could even doubt Naughty Dog would deliver anything less than amazing looking.
Reading all this technical jargon, seeing everyone lose their shit over different trailers and how they look, blah blah blah, it's fucking Naughty Dog, they're going to make a gorgeous looking game, end of discussion.
Reading all this technical jargon, seeing everyone lose their shit over different trailers and how they look, blah blah blah, it's fucking Naughty Dog, they're going to make a gorgeous looking game, end of discussion.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, I know. I think I was trying to make a different point. It's pointless to compare cutscene footage to gameplay footage in a game that "pretties up" its cutscenes. The image only illustrates that point, even if it was created for a different purpose. That's why it's pretty pointless to say the same model is being used when so much of the image is decided by shaders and post processing effects, etc.
Also, for the record, that original E3 cutscene was in 60fps. You can find the 60fps video on YouTube even.
I feel like I'm on a certain Reddit subsection here.
I know you're not serious, but anything that makes me think of that sub just gets me irritated.
stewieoldmanpressman.gif
VFX_Veteran
Banned
You are right. I dont' know. But my eyes can certainly make a distinction in color and texture. And they aren't even close to the same. I've watched that gameplay trailer more than I should and it's nowhere near the quality of that E3 demo.
Lighting is an important part of rendering.. but it doesn't dictate the look of the film. The Shaders and Textures do.
Our texture artists will make a texture that's 4k or more and create 1 shader for the skin.. it will stay that way whether the camera is close up or far away. We dont' make special cases for the set because we don't know at what context the character will be placed. If we have instances of characters and they are all far away.. yes, we will modify the shader for that particular shot and turn off the SSS to save rendering time.
This isn't the case for this demo. The hero character is always in view and controlled by the gamer. He should absolutely have his best shaders and max presentation on.
Well, you can based on your perception. You may be wrong.. but if that's the case, then ND isn't doing their job right. Their presentation should be consistent and repeatable under any lighting situation.
I don't recall any game (besides cutscenes) I've played where a character or prop looks worse on one level than another level.
And finally, by your own argument, you can't say that looking at the different contexts and saying they ARE of the same quality is truthful either.
psn
Member
I understand and agree. But the image has really been made for a different purpose. See the comments on reddit etc.. It is ridiculous to post it on "PC Masterrace" while PC gamers face downgrades in nearly every fucking game. I know it because I'm mainly a pc gamer.. And it is nothing console exclusive.
I've seen you in some of the other uncharted threads. Here you make it seem as if you work in the film industry, is that so? Just curious, not trying to bash you. In fact, I support your healthy dose of skepticism.
TrojanBlade
Member
Judging from the threads about this footage, there will be a grand crow feast when the game finally releases. As usual making judgements by looking at pre-alpha footage. This is not UBI or other 3rd party devs where downgrades are usual. This is ND folks!
Enjoy the crow when this is released.
Enjoy the crow when this is released.
VFX_Veteran
Banned
I kind of don't understand your argument here. You're saying that a character using the same shader can't look better or worse based on different lighting conditions? Because if that's what you're saying than I don't believe it to be true. Of course something under flatter lighting will just look more ugly. A character who is wet, and thereby has the reflectivity increased and more specular getting picked up on minute details, and is edge light by direct, harder moonlight would tend to look more pleasing than a character who is dry and lit by softer lighting at a more flat angle.
Take Driveclub, you can look at some shots on some tracks in certain conditions and lighting and they look flat and ugly, and others in completely different locations/conditions that look amazing, despite the same shaders being used. The same is true of AC:Unity. I mean, isn't that actually one of the side effects of using a physically based material system? They can look fairly different depending on the type of light hitting them and the "condition" of the material (wet/dry/smooth/rough, etc)
I've recently upgraded to Element v2, an After Effects plugin, and one of the major upgrades to the product is the inclusion of a physically based material system. I'm finding that just the positioning of the lighting can greatly alter how "real" a scene can look. I only have one screen of this test scene I whipped up, but you wouldn't believe the difference (well, you presumably would since this is your job) from when it was just using a single ambient light vs two spot lights and a parallel light in more traditional 3-point lighting positions:
quickwhips
Member
I could care less about the graphics. Mostly everything on PS4/X1 looks great to me. I was more impressed with the animations. I've never played an Uncharted game since I didn't have a PS3 but I will get this one Day 1 . I hope multiplayer will be fun.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
People say this for almost anything. It was said for Bungie, and look how that turned out. Regardless of who it is, whether first or third party, high or low budget - these things can happen. I'd agree that no one should be judging a product from such early footage anyway. 9 times out of 10, the early footage will be different to the final footage, whether better or worse
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
You're not using that right...
Oh, wait, never mind. You were being serious that you could care less, because you do actually care.
Look at my profile home page for your answer.
Oh my, very impressive stuff. Obviously your are not infallible but now I find it kind of odd that many are so dismissive of your opinions.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Ah, yes, good old "faith."
hurricanes
Member
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
It's because he doesn't pretend to be unbiased and says things that anger certain people and make them feel less pleased about their purchasing decisions.